Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum For True Beginners! A New Study Group for the 48.1 Nocturne

Hello All:

Just in the last few days, I have heard from or read from several people who would love to start this magnificient piece. A couple of you already have and have found their progress on the slow side because they are REALLY Adult Beginners as this forum implies. And I am in this group, believe me.

We are not at the skill level of the main study group. They sound like pros to me, a compliment! And they have wonderful information and can also be quite an inspiration to us.

To play this composition has been a dream of might from the moment I heard it. And I know others have had the same dream.

So, instead of me bringing up the rear by joining the other group, I thought I would start this sub-topic group and hope others (like me) will join in.

We can feel comfortable that we are like others who are plodding along, making progress, but oh so slowly and maybe getting a bit frustrated from time to time. It is for this purpose that I think this study group can be so helpful.

Also, we are realistic in our goal that we are not going to finish this piece in a few months! It might take some of us a year or longer, but...our motto should be SO WHAT!

So, please join in if you are interested. We can and will take it right from the very beginning with those major, massive chords that just about broke my fingers when I first played them. This will be the place for those questions that you might have been too embarrassed to ask on the other thread. There will be no "DUMB QUESTIONS" here.

O.K.? That's it.

If anyone would like to be the first to jump on this "slow train to China," please do. We want to hear from all of you and also invite any newbies who have been thinking about it to come aboard.

Oh...we need to know the meaning of some of those terms...and that will happen here.

Til tomorrow and again, hoping to hear from you.

Forever onward!
Kathleen

Sign me up immediately!!

I definitely belong here!
I had more or less resigned myself to taking at least two years to learn the Nocturne but maybe I'm being a little too pessimistic... one year from today is my new target. Besides, I want that new grand I've promised myself as a 'reward' ...and I'm not the only one!

I spend a large part of my daily practice on this Nocturne and it's very slow progress but, you know what? - rather than tiring from my efforts, I'm becoming ever more immersed in the sublime mystery within the music. I never tire from practicing or listening to it, within reason!

My approach is, and will remain, to concentrate on each section in turn, memorising as I go along; this in itself takes me an age but I don't want to bungle my way through to the end, regardless. When, eventually, I reach the final bar then I will work on perfecting the piece to the best of my ability. As an aid to learning, I'm finding Eleanor Baillie's book 'The Pianist's Repertoire - Chopin' - recommended by Kathleen - to be helpful as I progress. Incidentally, I'm using the Henle Urtext score and, if I've got a tip for everyone at the outset, I'd recommend not to use the free download score. I found it to be too 'compressed' to read comfortably; the Henle version at least makes the reading task that much 'easier' and has better notation IMO. I've also got the Schirmer score and this too is a big improvement on the free version. The task before us is challenge enough - I think we owe it to ourselves to have in front of us the best quality score available.

As far as my current progress is concerned, I've almost got the Lento section memorised and, so far, I'm quite happy with my interpretation of it. If anyone has seen my posts in the main study group thread, then you'll realise just how long I've been working on this section! When I'm ready, which hopefully will be within the next couple of weeks, I'll post a recording. There are mountains to climb in the future but the prospect of getting to grips with those majestic octave runs in the Poco Piu Lento is already making my mouth water!

I listen regularly to LisztAddict's wonderful rendition as well as to that by Ivan Moravec; also, I've ordered a CD by Ashkenazy which includes the - very slow! - version I've read so much about in the main thread. It's good to listen to different interpretations, don't you think? I believe it opens our minds to creating our own heartfelt interpretation to honour, in our own small way, the genius who created this glorious music.

Be good to hear how others are progressing and if anyone has some tips to help with the memorising!

cruiser (Michael)

SUPER, SUPER, SUPER!!

Thank you so much, guys! Keep 'em coming!

I think tomorrow we can look at what Cruiser had to say about the way he is practicing, and also I have a book about how to play this piece. It is a bit "involved." but I think I can put it in plain language. That will be useful as an overall view, but again, we are taking it measure by measure....or even chord by chord, if need be.

Also, perhaps recommend some recordings of the piece. I do like Vladimir Ashkenazy's the best. I love the way he starts off...those huge chords, sssooooo slowly. Just my speed and really magnficient sounding to begin this magnficient piece.

Regards,
Kathleen

Sign me up as a lurker.

I will be watching for the score of choice.

You've brought up very good point, gmm1.

Does it *really* make a difference if we are all using the same score? As long as it isn't a "simplified" version, does it really make a huge difference?

In most scores, the basic and important elements are there (at least I think that's the case). I just hate to have people go out and buy another piece of music when they already have this piece.

As long as the measures match...I think this would be important because we will be referring to certain measures (we will have to count them and probably pencil in their number).

So, just throwing out a question for anyone to jump on. In my opinion (for what it's worth) I think it's more important to have more people in our group rather than having them lurking, just because they don't have the "right" score. To me, any score of this piece is just fine for our purposes. Again, we are not heading for the concert stage here, just hoping to, one day, be able to play this magnificent piece.

Kathleen

I've had to correct my original post. I thought this was about 9/1 (why I would think that I do not know..) . I do not play 48/1.

You shouldn't have too much trouble with those octave runs cruiser — the most difficult thing about them is playing those two chords at tempo that aren't part of the run.

I've got half a page left to memorize of this piece and it's the tail end — very hard! I've also been trying to play the doppio at Moravec-speed, so you can imagine my troubles. There are a few kinks I have to iron out, but mainly just memorize the ending will be best. I'll post a recording Monday probably.

Thank you, BOTH! You're so encouraging...and we need it. We look forward to both recordings...Cruiser and RobertThePianist.

Cruiser: I'm sorry that I didn't read your post very carefully. My score is from a CD I purchased that contains all of Chopin's music. Needless to say, it prints out very small for these old eyes. So I trim the edges and put in on my scanner and press the "no border" button and it comes out much larger. I can recommend this procedure for anyone who has compressed pages. Go to Kinko's (or the like) and enlarge the pages there...really big, if you want to. I need room to write in the chords and fingering, etc., as I'm sure many of you do also.

But again, Cruiser has made a suggestion that we do owe it to ourselves to use the best score available, but where to find it?? I know my local store doesn't carry it, so I might have to order it from Amazon or e-bay. But for now, I am going to see how I can progress with what I have. And we can always refer back to Cruiser, who has the ultimate score.

Peyton: Can't believe this was the first nocturne you learned. I'm so impressed.

Thanks to all,
Kathleen

Peyton, have you considered making a recording of the Nocturne? I for one would love to hear you playing it!

Michael

Could someone show the piece? I'd like to see it out of curiosity...

Mark

HI,
i'm tempted to join the group but i've some hesitations.
I started one year ago with the piano. I worked hard (1,30/2 hr day) with great results. I consider myself an Adut Beginner.

The grade of this piece is 8 and the hardest pieces on which i'm working on are grade 4 (chopin prelude 28 / 4 and waltz la- op 19 post). The prelude required a couple of months and i found the waltz harder than prelude: after 3 month I play it from memory with some mistakes...

Here is some question i'm posting to myself about 48.1:
Is it sane to jump from grade 4 to grade 8?
Am I overtimating my ability?
Is it ok to start it now and plan a long project (>=1 year) or is it better to wait some progress in my skill? (maybe that next year i'll be able to learn the piece in 2/3 months).....
Can a such long project generate some frustration?

I'm not discourged. I'm just trying to understand if NOW i'ts a good idea to begin with this piece.

Stefano

Mark: You can download the music for free to take a look at it.

The site is called Classical Archieves. And once you register (there is no fee), it allows you to download 5 pieces of classical music a day. You only have to register...that's it. Then they will send you something via your e-mail and then you are officially in. You only have to pay a fee if you want to be a full-member, which allows you to download more than 5 a day.

Classical Archieves

But in the meantime, I will try to post an "image" copy.


Kathleen

Hi Stefano:

A very wonderful and talented friend, Hershey Felder, was once asked by someone if it was crazy to try to learn this piece...was it too difficult? Hersh replied that it would be crazy NOT to attempt it.

That sounds great, doesn't it? But in the real world, I think you will find it very frustrating at this point. Not that I am try to dissuade you, but I know from experience how it can really get you down when you put a lot of work into something and it just doesn't seem to be going well.

I would suggest that you look at the piece...if you don't have it, see my suggestion to Mark above. One look can tell you better than I can.

And maybe you can start on it, one measure at a time over a period of time...until there comes that day when you can go even faster.

I think you have to be the judge. Let us know what you decide. And be confident with your decision, for it will be the best for you.

Regards,
Kathleen

I just downloaded this piece and am currently listening to it at Classical Archives. I think this is way beyond my abilities at this point. I've been taking lessons for over 5 years.... perhaps I'm just a slow learner but I anticipate much frustration in attempting this piece before reaching a very late intermediate or early advanced level. Nevertheless I'm going to give it a try at least. I'm wondering how it compares in difficulty to Opus 10 No 3 Etude. I haven't attempted anything further than the main theme of that one yet. I'm told it's a grade 10 piece

I just LOVE your name IPIBAH!!

Yes, looking at this piece, especially the last two pages can scare the heck out of the bravest of us. I think it's all a matter, once again, of motivation (and, naturally, a certain skill level and some technique [which I sadly lack]). If you really love the music, go for it! If you find you are

then leave it alone for a while and perhaps come back to it or take it very slooooooowly! As we mentioned...it could be measure by measure or even chord by chord...whatever.

Gosh, we have been getting all kinds of comments here on its difficulty. Yes, No, Maybe!!

Eleanor Bailie lists the 10/1 at a VA (virutoso ability) and the 48.1 as an 8+.

I know it is over my head, near the end, and I will probably be like that cartoon above, but I'm still going for it. It IS going to be a long-term project, and one that I plan spending about 20-30 minutes a day on. I don't want to let my other music slide.

I'm glad you are all posting your opinions. It helps the rest of us and those who are dropping in.

Thank you all,
Kathleen

Count me in! I have been slowly sight-reading/stumbling through the first (lento) and second (poco piu lento) sections. I haven't been as consistent or intensive as I need to be, but that will change now- I will start devoting more time to it as long as I have all of you to commiserate with!

For me, the lento section is starting to come together and the hesitations are working out, although this does NOT mean I have achieved any degree of polish and proper expressiveness! But... it still sounds amazing! As for the second section- yikes. I have found that to be much more of a challenge, but even there it is getting a little better (i.e., recognizeable). It's just that I need a few extra fingers on my left hand So I am struggling with these monster chords, but they are absolutely beautiful, and once I hit them.... it makes it all worthwhile.

BTW, I am using the score from Schirmer's Library of Musical Classics: Chopin Nocturnes. I have been using Schirmer since my earliest piano lesson days, and I've gotten comfortable with it. Also, I do have Eleanor Bailie's graded practical guide, but have not yet consulted it for this (have still been reading the introduction). Now would be a good time, I suppose.
I've had some fun jumping ahead to "preview" some of the octaves in that middle section (mainly right hand only, adding in the chords as they come). It takes some of the dread away!

To Kathleen (and others)- regarding the Doppio section, I know what my teacher would say (and will say, providing she lets me take this on officially): learn the left hand thoroughly, totally, completely without hesitation, so that it becomes second nature while you lead the melody with the right. Easier said than done, but I think it's sound advice!

Looking forward to sharing our experiences learning this wonderful piece!

I'm thinking about it.

I don't think that the piece is impossible, even for the intermediate players. To play it at concert level is a different story but to have a satisfaction of being able to play it at home is very achievable. The first 2/3 of the piece is really not too bad as far as getting all the right notes. Once that is taken care of, it is very challenging and fun to voice it as there are so many possiblities and way to play this piece. The Doppio section is intimidating at first but it is not that long and if you stick with it, the notes will eventually come. Then the fun part begins.
Robert is setting himself up a bit, using Moravec as a reference I long ago gave up that idea. Listen to Barenboim and Angela Hewitt, theirs are not neccessary the best rendition but it does show that slow, or relatively slower does have its virtue and make the piece a bit less intimidating.
I think I am at a point where I can bang it away, making it listenable is still questionable,however

The terms "Chopin" and "for true beginners" can be used in the same sentence? Truly?

I'm also curious as to what the song looks like, so I'll wait for someone kind enough to post a sampler image.

Although probably the mere sight of the sheet music will make this super true beginner head for the hills (Hoping not though).


Follow up edit:

Just saw it's a grade 8 piece. Consider me heading for the hills.