Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum For True Beginners! A New Study Group for the 48.1 Nocturne

I just can't see what was wrong with the old Nocturne 48.1 Study group
As far as I remember you started it, Kathleen....
Ragnhild

Stefano, as Kathleen says, just try it!

My ability level is probably similar to yours and I can 'already' almost play the first section - Lento - at least to my current satisfaction, and from memory. I know there are much higher mountains to climb later but the music is wonderful and holds no terrors for me.

I can imagine that, for many pieces of this standard, I would have given up quite quickly but - and this is the key! - this Nocturne has really enthralled me and I'm enjoying the challenge and the attendant 'self-discovery' so much. By way of a goal, I've given myself one year to complete the piece; if it takes longer, I'm not bothered - what does 'complete' mean anyway? With effort, during the coming year, I will also be 'growing' as a pianist. In any case, as long as we maintain our enthusiasm for the piano by continuing to play music which is at our level, then I believe it can do no harm to stretch ourselves from time to time... on the contrary, I think it's probably a good thing.

Michael

come on in Frycek, we need you! ...the water's warm, if a bit deep in parts, and I'm thrashing around in the shallow end

Some of the Chopin Preludes are a heck more difficult than this Nocturne, but they didn't scare you off, did they?

...and we will certainly need your help in the coming months LA!

Ragnhild, now that I've considered this further, I think you're right. It dosen't really matter that there are people of differing abilities in one study group. Rather than 'isolating' ourselves, I guess it's better if we're all together in one place so that the experienced pianists can read about our progress and problems and help us out accordingly. After all, we're still in the AB forum, aren't we? By having separate threads maybe we're muddying the waters... what does Kathleen think I wonder?

Hi Cruiser and all:

I did give Ragnhild's comment some thought. And I was just about to respond when you got in before me.

As always...I will defer to the opinion of the majority of those who have posted here, their interest in beginning to learn this piece. The majority rules!

But my thinking in creating this new study group (as I stated in the first post in this thread) follows:

It is true that I did start the first study group way back in January. And I did start trying to learn the nocturne back then, but the prelude concert came along, and practically all my efforts were on the prelude and some other new smaller pieces and trying to keep others current, etc.

When I would check into the Study Group...wow!! much to my surprise and wonderment, many had already completed the piece or were coming very close to it. They were posting their recordings, and they were great. And they had done this in a relatively short time. I knew I was in the wrong group, for their talent, technique and abilities far surpassed mine. I had figured learning this piece as a long-term project (say about a year or so). But I do have to say that they posted very valuable information regarding fingering possibilties, etc.

So...here I am, about 1/2 through the first page...certainly bringing up the extreme rear for the first study group. And I think (not sure) that the thread had slipped from the first page, so I had to go hunting for it.

Enough, I have rambled once again.

Whatever people think is just fine with me. Cruiser...I would so appreciate (since you have (progressed so well) if you would sort of take a tally. If people could just pop in and state their preference, it would be most helpful. Then we can start in taking up the challenge.

Regards,
Kathleen

Perplexed: Please refer to the Classical Archieve link...about 5 posts up from yours.

Frycek: Wow...how we would love to have you here.

Chardonnay: Thank you for your input.

To everyone: However, we decide to do this, I think it would be so helpful if we could have some kind of Index that would specifically cover distinct areas of the piece, also fingering of certain sections, etc. Otherwise, all this great information is going to be scattered throughout and will be impossible to find.

We could create the Index on the first very post (mine) and I would be happy to do this as I had some experience when doing one for the Devoted to Chopin thread. Just a thought, as always.

Kathleen

Although I see the merit in Kathleen's idea for a "sub"-group, on further consideration I kind of agree with Ragnhild and Cruiser that a second, separate thread is not really necessary. IMO, let's just keep it simple with one thread/study group and accept that there are many newcomers to the Nocturne who are just now passing the starting gate and beginning the process...

There's an interesting thread over on Microsoft's Tech website that explains sysinternals and their functions. Very good reading, unless of course, you can't program, then it's just greek.

That's how I feel about the other thread, way beyond me. I have tried other study groups, but get left in the dust after a week or so, then it's reading stuff beyond me hoping to find what I need. Some of us will post a question, only to be told to read the previous posts first so the group does not get bogged down. That's when I quit and go it alone.

Chardonnay says "let's just keep is simple with one thread/study group and accept that there are many newcomers to the Nocturne .."

I guess I would say there are many newcomers to the piano that want to try.

If this "true beginner" idea goes, great. If not, thanks for thinking of me/us Kathleen, maybe next time.

Yup, I don't want you folks splitting off from the main one, even if you think are not the 'skill level' of the group. I mean, if you think you're somehow slowing down the rest of us, I guess I can put your fears at rest by saying you aren't. And if you have questions and stuff, feel free of course to ask. I am still "working" on all the parts you are still, it's just that I might have more of the piece committed to memory, it certainly sounds far from perfect (or even better than tolerable!).

I'm just glad to see there is so much interest in this one piece from so many forum members; we will have a great study group as it is! Let's get going on it then! I should post you all a recording today so... let's hope everything works out. And yeah, bkk, I did set myself up heheh, Moravec is one of the more difficult tempoed renditions of the Nocturne I've heard, but, I enjoy his tempo so much more, so it's worth it to struggle through, though sometimes it sounds more like I'm just banging on the keyboard, as you put it, rather than getting the proper dynamics of the piece. Then again, I haven't committed it all to memory yet so — all in good time, right?

For those of you who wanted to look at the sheet music — just dowload the PDF linked on this page: http://www.free-scores.com/download-sheet-music.php?pdf=1519

The piece isn't that intimidating until you look at the latter half of it, especially once the octave runs and the doppio movemento begin. If you play it at a fairly rapid pace (without blowing through it), the difficulty is somewhat increased, but it is definitely doable, so for those of you who don't think they're good enough, just go for it (as everyone else has said)! This is a beautiful piece and one that is worth your time and effort to master.

Best of luck to all of you, and keep me (and the rest of us) informed on your progress!

Robert: Thank you for the link.

It's not that I don't think I'm good enough, I know I'm not good enough. That song looks quite a bit beyond my current abilities. Maybe in a year or so, I'll have the skills to play it.

Well, of course, do what seems most prudent . I'm one of those guys to dive in head-first, no matter what the grade level is Hope you do decide to take it up when the year comes!

It was not my intention to exclude anyone by making that statement. Truth is, I am new to the whole concept of "study groups" in piano, and truly do not know for sure which option will work better.
I think it could work with one main group, sub-divided into differing ability levels, but am open to suggestions.

My comment does sound a little harsh, eh? Not my intention either, Chardonnay.

I did not feel excluded by your idea/thoughts, and I hope my comments did not single you out, even though that's exactly what I did. I was just using your statement as a representative statement of many people's thoughts expressed in this thread.

We have in common... a love of Chopin's Nocturne Op48.1

We Have in common... a strong desire to be able to play this Nocturne

We have in common... the fact that we're all aiming above our current ability level

We have a lot in common! And, aren't we so fortunate to have each other?!

This is, let's not forget, a STUDY group and so, for study purposes, I suggest we divide the piece into its constituent parts, namely:

1 LENTO
2 POCO PIU LENTO
3 DOPPIO MOVIMENTO

My own approach is to study each section IN TURN until I can play it to the best of my current ability . For the purpose of this study group may I respectively suggest that we all adopt this approach? Having said this there is, of course, nothing to stop anyone dipping their toes into more distant waters!

We can study each section on a measure by measure basis if necessary and Kathleen's indexing system will help here immensely. She's already demonstrated this in the 'Devoted to Chopin' thread with which most of you will already be familiar.

We can post recordings of our progress for constructive criticism and comments by the other learners as well as, hopefully, by those who can already play the work... LisztAddict in particular, if he'd be so kind

And so I repectively suggest that, from a yet-to-be-defined moment onwards, this sub-thread be exclusively devoted to the practical STUDY/LEARNING of the Nocturne.

Michael

Alright, hot off the presses, here is my newest rendition of the Nocturne (missing about three bars at the end of the piece)

http://ia341229.us.archive.org/3/items/MeChopinNocturnemorepractice/My_Song_3_1.mp3

Ever notice how you seem to forget some of the music that you learned at the beginning when you are recording it, or playing in front of others? Like, really basic stuff that you do everytime you run through the piece? It seems to happen to me everytime I record, I just forget some basics! Again, if you are wondering why I'm blazing through the doppio, blame Moravec for tainting me with his beautiful recording!

EDIT: I just saw you made a post cruiser. I think the method you outlined is the best approach to take, and the one that I chose as well. While I really wanted to play that doppio movemento, I waited until I had the poco piu lento pretty much down (at least, memorized note-wise, neglecting the dynamics) before jumping into the deadly doppio.

Great progress Robert! I don't think it'll be too long before you have the Nocturne at the 'polishing' stage. Have you adopted the memorising approach which I favour, or are you reading it... or perhaps a bit of both?

I'm going to post a recording of the Lento section soon, once I've worked out which cable I need to connect my DP to the PC! :rolleyes:

Michael

Me? Read music as I play? Hah! I couldn't sight read to save my own life. I memorized pretty much the way you outlined. I figured since the piece is pretty much broken into three nice sections which sound pretty nice all on their own that I would just practice each third until it sounded decent and then move on. Though I didn't play them all in isolation.

I learned the lento section. Then, when I was learning poco piu lento, I'd often play the entire piece through so that I would retain the lento section. Same with the doppio (though because of the length of the piece I usually just start with the doppio, besides it sounds great on it's own.) I agree that it's best to take this piece section by section, the approach has worked for me.

Unforunately, my progress has slowed greatly. I'm so enthralled with what I have that I haven't learned the rest of the piece, I just love playing what I have over and over again!!!