Hi everybody. I'm writing this post cause I have to ak you a question: I started playing piano 3 months ago and I just finished to study the 1° sonatina by M.Clementi (Op.36). I study on a digital piano(clavinova ydp140) and I wanted to know if it would be better to buy an upright.
Durig my lessons I play on a yamaha c3 and I feel that is really different, in particular on the dynamics.
So what do you think? I should study a bit more on this clavinova or I should upgrade to an acoustic one?
Thanks a lot and as usual I apologize if my english is not perfect, but i'm italian^^

My english is not perfect either.

I have an upright and a digital. I play both and like both. For me they are two different instruments and they go well together but if you're considering a acoustic, go with a grand. I will exchange my upright for a grand anytime but I will keep my digital.

If you prefer an acoustic go for it but don't expect to become a better pianist because you have a acoustic.

Acoustic vs digital is an endless debate over here.


Serge

Thx for the reply.
Unfortunately I don't have enough space(and money ç_ç) to buy a grand. So if I'm going to buy a new piano, it's going to be an upright(not an entry level one, but a quite good one I hope).
I just wanted to know if learning on a digital could make me develop some bad habits...

If you have money for a "quite good" vertical then you could be well set. You may even be surprised at how much grand you could get for the same money. You may be further surprised at how much grand you can fit into a space. A decent ~5'7'' grand will outperform all but possibly the most expensive German verticals (C. Bechstein Concert 8, for example).

Do you live in an apartment (or flat if that makes more sense to you)?

About digital vs. acoustic: I own a Steinway B and a Yamaha Clavinova. I can say honestly that the Clavinova neither feels nor performs anything like an acoustic. For this I'm actually pondering replacing the Clavinova with a Roland stage piano and a good amp. Rolands are reputed to have the best actions and the best sound generator in the business.

Also post your question in the Piano Forum.

Hi Eyedol, welcome to the forums!
What do YOU think? Do you feel you play better on your teacher's acoustic? Do you think you could play better if you did your practice at home on an acoustic (regarding dynamics, articulation etc.)? Have you noticed something's lacking on the digital or are you content with your it? Are you really looking forward to playing on a grand during lessons but are less enthusiastic about your digital?

(those questions helped my decision some years ago - I bought an acoustic but kept the digital for late night practice)

And: What does your teacher think?

I have met a boy who has come farther on his digital in an amazingly short time than a lot of people ever will on an acoustic grand. But eventually, he got a grand since the digital limited his progress.

Hope this helps a little bit.

I was thinking about buying a piano like the yamaha u1(hoping this is a quite good piano^^-by the way i livoe the bechstein you mentioned,horowitzian!) or something in this price range.
I live in a flat and a grand would alo be too loud, so I absolutely have to choose an upright.
Another problem is that I don't like too much my DP because it seems to me that he lacks of a SOUL.When I play it I feel as I'm playing on a fake instrument...
Maybe it's a stupid thing but it matters a lot for me...

I have to add a thing.
Practicing my hanon's exercices on the DP it's really easy because the keys are really light.
When I go playing a Petrof upright at my friend's place it's really difficult for me but I think this effort would improve my tecnique. So I'm also looking for a piano with a heavier keyboard...

I understand what you mean about digitals. That's why I want to switch to a Roland, which is better in that regard.

Remember that verticals can be pretty loud, too. If I lived in a flat, I'd rather have a decent grand with some Piattino acoustic caster cups . I've heard that those can eliminate annoyance to downstairs neighbors. You certainly ought to consider it, even if you end up choosing a vertical.

Thx for the advice, anyway I think I will buy an upright mainly for space problems...I'm 20 yoears old, I still live with my mother, and she's not so happy about having another piano at home; we have already argued about this new upright and she will never allow me to keep a grand even though i'd love to^^ it could look silly for you but that's a big problem for me XD

I would suggest you wait until you've been playing at least a year before buying an acoustic. I've played the YDP140 and I think it should be adequate for your first year. After that you'll have a better understanding of what you want in an acoustic, and can make a more informed decision.

I agree with Serge that owning both an acoustic and DP is very desirable if you have the money and space.

Personally, I own the YDP223 and a very nice Charles Walter console. I bought an upright because of space limitations in my townhouse, but there are days when I kick myself for not getting a grand instead. Someday I may trade in the Walter, but when I do I'll take a big financial hit, since the bottom has fallen out of the acoustic upright market here in the US.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

If your digital piano is competent, as bluekeys states, the time you spend practicing now probably is more important than whether you use an acoustic piano. One of the keys to my progress is the ability to practice with headphones. I don't disturb my family with early morning or late night playing, and I can work on short passages without driving them crazy.

Good luck as your piano studies continue.

That's a good point. Because when I'll buy my new piano, i'm going to keep it for a very long time and i'm not going to change it for years...
So maybe it's better if I keep playing on my clavinova for all this year and then buy an acoustic when I'll be good enough to know the piano I want to buy.
I' really happy for your replies because playing piano is becoming more and more important for me and I want to do the best choices...
Bluekeys, when you were talking about a year of study, were you referring to a particular grade? I mean something like: "by the time you're going to be able to play THIS you are going to be experienced enough to make a good choice" or it was just a general ndication?

It was just a general indication. To some extent, the longer you wait, the more likely you'll make a decision you are happy with. At some point, just playing DPs may limit your development, but not in the first couple of years. (Others may have a different opinion -- you might want to check the teacher's forum for their thoughts. They tend to be a bit more pro-acoustic.).

I bought my acoustic at about 18 months. For a while after I got it I experienced a burst of improvement, but that fizzled out pretty fast and I've gone back to slow steady improvement which can only be noticed over months. I didn't start playing until 50. Things might be different starting at 20.

My teacher says I'm learning quite fast (probably because I study at least 3 hours a day...) and I'm a bit advantaged because I've been playing guitar for a few years before...
Anyway I still don't feel so sure about the piano I need.
I love chopin, but I've never played any of his Op. so I' don't know which piano will suit better this type of composition.
Maybe I'm gonna wait a lil bit more, save some extra money and buy a better piano(I love schimmel's sound^^)

I have a Roland stage piano and a small Yamaha console. I inherited the Yamaha which replaced a small Whitney grand that I did not have room for. I must admit that I hate the Yamaha and love the Roland. The integral speakers on the Roland are not much but with a pair of Bose headphones the sound is great. The action on the Roland is very much like the acoustic. The sound from the Yamaha is loud and harsh, but I hope to have it voiced soon to see if that helps. My best advice is to choose carefully.

When I took up the piano again about a 15 months ago I bought a Yamaha CLP-220. It is not the best sounding digital piano (easy to tell it's not an acoustic) but reasonably priced and it does the job, which is to help me develop musicality, sight reading and technique.

I will probably keep the DP until I can afford a grand and have reached a level where I feel that I can justify the purchase of one. I might not develop some of the "acoustic touch" on my DP but that is a calculated risk. :rolleyes: Meanwhile the DP will serve my needs - and it is a beautiful piece of furnitrure... I haven't taken lessons for quite a while but both my former piano teacers had grand pianos that I played although I was a total beginner. One of them had a small recital hall where I could practice. The other had me over for private lessons at a conservatory - only grand pianos there. Guess I'm a little spoiled in that regard, but there is so much I like better about grands than regular pianos.

I agree with bluekeys that, generally, it is more likely you will be happy with your choice if you give it some time. How much time is, of course, up to you. I know I'll be visiting lots of diffrent stores, playing lots of different instruments and interviewing a lot of people to find out what's available and what sort of grand will suit my needs and wallet best.

If you live in an apartment building, you
cannot play an acoustic piano. These
things can be heard a block away, and
you'll soon drive the neighbors nuts--
not to mention the inhabitants of your
own house. When you go to a piano store
and play an acoustic piano, it seems
great in that rather artificial environment,
and so you don't consider what you're
getting into when you buy one of these.
First, you don't notice that it weighs
a ton, and there's no way to get it into
your house without hiring movers.
Then you don't consider the tuning:
acoustic pianos need to be tuned at
least twice a year at about $90-$150 (US)
per tuning. Dealing with tuners can be
exasperating; these people can be rude
and/or incompetent and can take all the
pleasure out of owning a piano. Then
you don't think about the repairs:
stuck keys and buzzing strings are common
on acoustic pianos. And you don't notice
how archaic the design of acoustic pianos
is. These things have not changed
significantly in 150 years; in particular,
the tuning pins are held in place by
friction only in a wood pin block, and
if the pins start to slip in their holes,
the instrument can no longer be tuned.

I had many years of classical lessons
as a child and played only acoustic pianos
back then. But since 1989 I've been
playing only digitals, since I live
in an apartment building, and I like
them better than acoustic pianos. Digitals
have enabled me to become the pianist
I could never be on an acoustic piano.
I have an expensive acoustic upright
in storage--a similar model today would
be in the ~$20,000 price range--but
I have no inclination to take it out
of storage, because for practical, everyday
playing I find my $900 digital piano
far superior to any acoustic.

This thing about not being able to play
well on the teacher's acoustic piano
when you have a digital at home, you
hear all the time. This is completely
invalid, in my view. Digitals are close
enough to an acoustic so that there
should be no problem playing on any
acoustic piano. People say they can't
get the right "dynamics" and "tone" and
"touch" on a digital. That's completely
invalid, in my view. Digitals are close
enough to an acoustic so that you can
do anything on them that you can on
an acoustic. In any case, forget about
"dynamics," etc. What you need to be
concerned about is reading the score
accurately and then hitting all the right
notes in the right time at speed, because
if you can't do that, then you can't
play, and if you can't play, then you're
wasting your time.

Also, don't ever tell a piano teacher
that you own a digital piano. If you
do that, you give him a way to blame
any of your playing problems on the
digital instead of on his teaching.

... because it's probably a good idea to take advice on this question from someone who has played digitals exclusively for 20 years and considers them to be 'far superior' to any acoustic.

If you can feel the difference between an acoustic and a digital, that means it's time to get an acoustic.

I can tell the difference. But to my fingers and ear there is more difference between various acoustics than between my digital and the good acoustics I play.

Perhaps. Or perhaps the opposite ...

For years I played on a Kawai US-50 upright. Then I bought a Clavinova in September.

I could plainly feel the difference between the upright and the digital.

So I decided it was time to get rid of the upright.

:D This post is the completely
invalid testimony of a self-
described terminally advanced
intermediate pianist who never learned
proper technique, in my view.

@ the OP: Ignore this guy.

Gyro has copied and pasted this rubbish an untold number of times. :rolleyes:

This thread is important to me too. I'm playing an older Clavinova (great action, ok sound)and am fine with it as far as it goes. At the school where I take lessons (and occasionally practice) there are about eight acustic pianos, two grands and the rest uprights. Here's the thing; my DP sounds as good or better then all of them...except for the Kawi grand, which sounds so much better then my Yamaha (and the other acustics)it's hard to believe. I love to play that piano! The sound just floats and shimmers...
So one day I'd love to have an acustic piano like that Kawi, but in the meantime my DP sounds better then lots of the acustic pianos out there. What do the more experenced folks out there think?
Daniel

It's definitely preferable for me to play a nice digital than an old, beat-up acoustic that's in poor shape or is totally out-of-tune. But otherwise, a reasonably well-maintained acoustic beats a digital for me any day.

Also, a lot of school practice acoustic pianos can be in really poor shape due to overplaying by a revolving-door-full of players of various levels, so I would not use them for a fair comparison with nice, privately-owned digitals.

I started off with a high-end cabinet Roland digital and then upgraded to an acoustic upright that's in good shape, and I have not regretted the change at all. If you ask most people on this forum who have bought an acoustic as an upgrade from a digital, they'll tell you the same thing...

Ideally you would own both an acoustic and a digital. The digital is great for late-night practice...

I think I'm going to keep my Dp for my night practice but next week I'll start to visit some piano stores and look for a good acoustic upright, maybe a pre-owned one...

I played a Kawai ES4 for almost two years till I felt I was worthy of a nice acoustic grand. Now that I've had the new piano, I can barely tolerate the old digital...

mark I feel the same...when I play on my friend's petrof, or on the school's C3 I feel like I'm really studying and playing, because it's really me who's producing those sounds. When I play my DP it seems to me that I'm only learning what keys I have to press...

It seems to me that those who say nothing but acoustic will do are all advanced intermediate to advanced players who can appreciate the nuances of a fine instrument. I Also know that some don't care for Gyros digital passion. But others are just as passionate about acoustics. To each his/her own I guess.

I think we need to keep in mind a thought we use in education that says instruction should be "age appropriate." I also think an instrument should be "player appropriate."

This person is 20 years old, living with mom, in a flat. This person has a lot of things going on right now and appears to have made piano a priority. I may be totally wrong but it appears to me that the OP is about to sink a life's savings into a piano whether it is really needed or not.

My recommendation is not to take a $6K-$20K gamble at this time. Everything I read into the posts says don't do it. Gyro makes some good points, whether you like his passion or not. This is a 20 year old, living with mom, in a flat with lots of neighbors. Now tell me any acoustic is not going to be an issue! If the OP is like most newbies, the 1,000,000 time the same measure is played, the phone is going to start ringing and the neighbors are going to start yelling.

This kid is young with lots to look forward to. Things such finishing or going to college, finding a means of support (yes I am being presumptuous here), and all of the other things that go on in a 20 year old's life. The OP may want an acoustic, but from what I read, an acoustic may not be needed and certainly may not be the best for the current situation.

IMO and only IMO, stay with the digital or upgrade to a nicer digital at this time. Your mom will thank you, your neighbors will thank you, and your bank account will thank you. At this age, I believe that life is about balance. Maybe music will be your life. In all likelihood it either will be a part of your life or play a small part in it. I am not trying to put a damper on anyone's dreams, but it is a reality. You can learn a great deal on a digital and there are means to practice on an acoustic when you want to do so. In another 3-5 years when the OP's skills outgrow the digital, guess what, there will still be an acoustic out there waiting for the OP.

In other words, don't rush into anything, especially when a great deal of money is involved.

There are ways to advance your skills with what you have. Wait another year or two and if the passion is still there, reconsider.

Eyedol:

Your decision to begin looking for an acoustic is a good one. I own both an acoustic and a nice digital. I began learning on the digital. This was wonderful especially because I was able to use software that interfaced with the instrument.

However, I now practice on the acoustic exclusively. Not only does the acoustic sound better IMO, but it requires the pianist to produce the tone organically. Learning to produce a nice full tone and to create different musical color is best learned on an acoustic. I'm not even sure it can be learned on the best digital piano.

thanks again for all your replies; they help me a lot and make me consider the situation from different points of view.
@PhysicsTeacher: I know maybe it's a bit early for this upgrade, but music is really, really important for me. I've been playing guitar for 10 years, play it in a band and love everything about music. This year I decided to start playing another instrument...I don't think I'll lose my interest in the piano in a few years...
Luckily my mom helps me a lot with my tuition fees, but you are completely right about neighbours issues; next week I'm going to talk with them and ask them when they'll allow me to play...