Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
69 registered (acortot, Bachus, ando, 36251, AndrewJCW, 20 invisible), 994 Guests and 17 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Topic Options
#1105087 - 01/07/06 06:58 PM Fur Elise
wisdom26 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 86
Loc: Wales
Wonderful piece this is and not as easy as it looks at all, especially the interruption bits. Heard a few recordings of it being played. It sounds amazing and very impressive when played that well.

It was only recently that I was aware of the interruption bits.

I get the impression from playing and listening to this being played that it should always be flowing, from start to finish.

Anyway I'm finding the interruption bits quite a challenge. Think it will take a lot of practice to get this one sounding good without any mistakes!!

Top
(ad) Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1105088 - 01/07/06 07:12 PM Re: Fur Elise
Bob Muir Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/03
Posts: 2653
Loc: Lakewood, WA, USA
I'm not sure what you mean by "interruption bits", but I know exactly what you mean by your description of "flowing". I learned all three sections myself this past year and I was not able to reach that flowing level so I've now set it aside and filed it under future projects.

If you haven't read C.C. Changs free, downloadable, Piano Practice book yet, it's a must read. Yes, it's going to take a LOT of practice to master Fur Elise.

Top
#1105089 - 01/07/06 07:39 PM Re: Fur Elise
wisdom26 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 86
Loc: Wales
I think it describes it as 'interruption' in Chang's book so I stole the word from there. Basically the two bits which is different to how the piece starts and ends.

Top
#1105090 - 01/07/06 08:35 PM Re: Fur Elise
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
it seems easy, but there's a few places in this piece not as easy as it looks and in fact it's difficult to play well. i like this piece and it's the very first piece i have ever learned on keyboard.

Top
#1105091 - 01/07/06 08:36 PM Re: Fur Elise
Bob Muir Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/03
Posts: 2653
Loc: Lakewood, WA, USA
Ah. Yes, I know what you're taking about then. Those "interruptions" are certainly difficult, but with slow, accurate practice, they are attainable.

Top
#1105092 - 01/07/06 08:50 PM Re: Fur Elise
wisdom26 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 86
Loc: Wales
yes, looks like it will require a lot of practice to play it well and make it sound effortless and flowing from start to finish! worth the effort I think.

Top
#1105093 - 01/08/06 12:38 AM Re: Fur Elise
Mick Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 49
Despite it's undeniable popularity I still feel this piece is highly underestimated and not always granted the attention it actually deserves. Many pianists (and pianists-in-the-making) shrug it off sometimes as simple and often as overplayed, but the truth is that it isn't embraced by enough people who actually would be able to play it well. Apart from it's amazing attributes for teaching because it contains a wide variety of components and techniques, it's a very powerful and groundbreaking composition that can be tough to master. I'd wager a guess that many people who proclaim it as a piece too easy for their skills could not play it well if they tried. To learn the notes is not a problem, but mastering the emotion and tender touch it calls for is something entirely different.

The story (or mystery) of Für Elise (published in 1810 when Beethoven was 40) is somewhat compelling too. I know that some people tend to settle on the most common theories: Beethoven's illegible handwriting was misinterpreted from 'Therese' to 'Elise'; or, the name 'Elise' at the time was simply another way of describing what we today would call something similar to a sweetheart. It would seem no one really knows though it doesn't stop people from passing these theories around as sound facts, but if the music is any indication there was a wealth of different emotions involved.

One of my favorite Beethoven compositions, and not at all as overplayed as some people make it out to be. There are very few truly great interpretations of this piece, and piano teachers would show some degree of neglect not introducing this piece to their students, if not for the music, then for it's influence and importance in music over the past 200 years. Few things as memorable as this has ever been written, if anything.
_________________________
Mick

Top
#1105094 - 01/08/06 01:36 AM Re: Fur Elise
hv Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 1242
Loc: Cape Cod
Don't know if you'll find it great, but here's a different interpretation. A hundred years before the stuffed animal we now call the Teddy Bear was conceived, it might have been called:

The Furry Lisa

Howard

Top
#1105095 - 01/08/06 01:18 PM Re: Fur Elise
musdan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 1209
Hi hv,

I know what you mean, it's not easy especially the part you are referring too - if it helps, you have company, it seems no matter what I do, I keep messing up.

Wonder how 10 years olds learn this piece?

We'll have to keep at it - it will happen. \:\)

Top
#1105096 - 01/08/06 01:41 PM Re: Fur Elise
w_scott_iv@yahoo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 1120
Loc: West Virginia
I'd avoid thinking of the contrasting sections as 'interruption bits'. They put the original material into perspective. Look how reflective and poignent the return of the original material is (following the chromatic scale) simply because of the journey created by the contrasting material. Another example of this is in Chopin's E Major Etude (No. 3). The return to the A section cries of longing for the naivite of the first A section which had not yet been exposed to the emotionally intense contrasting material. It is very much the same effect as when, after we experience the hardships and joys of life, we long for the innocense of youth.

Top
#1105097 - 01/08/06 04:19 PM Re: Fur Elise
LudwigVanBee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/04
Posts: 83
Loc: USA
My teacher said this is a Rondo in format ABACA. The A is the main theme which is more or less late beginner. The B and C sections are intermediate and thus more difficult to master. To play those 'flowing' and 'smooth' takes years of practice, including use of the metronome. THis piece demonstrates the complexity of Beethoven. All his music has difficult sections but they are nevertheless worth going for!
_________________________
_ _ ___________________________ _ _
"There are no shortcuts to anything worth doing." Beverly Sills

Top
#1105098 - 01/08/06 05:10 PM Re: Fur Elise
AJB Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 3655
Loc: Surrey, England
I have heard many people play this piece - but rarely do I hear it played well. Frequently it is played too fast, too loud, without sufficient expression and with errors in the more complex sections. It tends to be underestimated.

For some inexplicable reason it is often regarded as beginner piece, possibly because there are many simplified or truncated versions of it.

It is not at all difficult, but it does require reasonable technique nad experience to play it well. And when played well, it is a lovely, short, piece that is well worth tucking into one's repertoire, becasue it is very recognisable and highly regarded my many people who may not be classical music aficionados.
_________________________
S&S Hamburg D, Yamaha CLP 280


Top
#1105099 - 01/08/06 08:48 PM Re: Fur Elise
dfvanden Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 176
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Having heard the easier parts of this song so many times, I'm always conscious of annoying the household by playing those parts too often. I mostly play the two trickier bits a couple of times each day, because I'm terrified that if I don't keep them rehearsed, I'll lose my hard-earned touch. I have to confess that I don't alternate my 3-2-1 fingers on the lower A like you're supposed to (second hard bit). I also don't nudge the B flat at the start of the right hand trill (in the middle of the first hard bit), because it throws my timing out. What other shortcuts have people taken in this piece?

Top
#1105100 - 01/09/06 07:01 AM Re: Fur Elise
AJB Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 3655
Loc: Surrey, England
I don't believe the 321 is a shortcut - I think this fingering is entirely optional but is often written as 321 in ABRSM texts because of their obsession with fingering, that is often illogical (though not necessarily in this case).

For me, the main point is that the repeated A needs to be played very softly to start with. Hardly anyone does this in my experience. I also hear a lot of over use of the sustain pedal, which makes the piece sound muddled or even muddied.

There is no need to take shortcuts - the piece is really not difficult - just play it slower until you can achieve the correct notes at a consistent tempo. Once you start missing notes out this becomes a slippery slope and will not set you in good stead for much harder pieces.
_________________________
S&S Hamburg D, Yamaha CLP 280


Top
#1105101 - 01/09/06 07:24 AM Re: Fur Elise
Timothy (In Cyprus) Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 109
Loc: Cyprus
 Quote:

For me, the main point is that the repeated A needs to be played very softly to start with. Hardly anyone does this in my experience. I also hear a lot of over use of the sustain pedal, which makes the piece sound muddled or even muddied.
I agree. I tend to play this piece with no more than half-sustain at most. Just enough to carry the bass-line in the beginning but not enough to turn it into what I hear of it mostly, which is a complete mush of sound. It should produce a delicate wash of sound, rather than thud thud thud thud thud.

Timothy
_________________________
Another piano-playing organist and organ-playing pianist.

Top
#1105102 - 01/09/06 01:58 PM Re: Fur Elise
wisdom26 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 86
Loc: Wales
I play the white notes 313131 but the black note 323232.

Not sure of my use of pedal in this one. I have this music in 2 different piano books. In one book it says use the pedal throughout the whole bar in the A section, whilst in the other book it says use the pedal only for the first 3 semiquavers of the bar. Then for the B section my first book says no pedal whilst in the other book it states pedal until you reach the demi-semiquaver bars.

I find the C section difficult to sound good with the pedal because it tends to sound a bit of a mess, perhaps because I don't release the pedal properly occasionally, not sure though.

Top
#1105103 - 01/09/06 02:10 PM Re: Fur Elise
Bob Muir Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/03
Posts: 2653
Loc: Lakewood, WA, USA
Beethoven's notations for this piece were made with a piano of his era in mind. The sustain in todays pianos is much different. So for the self learner, the best book is one edited for todays pianos.

Alfred has a book, "Beethoven: An Introduction to his Piano Works", that has the original markings in black and modern edits in light grey to help students. There are also notes for the parts that are questionable like the turnaround and the pedal over the chromatic scale. It's $8.50 and it includes Fur Elise and 16 other works.

Top
#1105104 - 01/09/06 02:15 PM Re: Fur Elise
wisdom26 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 86
Loc: Wales
I'm a little frustrated now as a few days ago I found a free sheet music site that had two recordings of Fur Elise on it. One was faster than the other. Both sounded like good interpretations to me, though I'd agree with the comment that's been made about people not playing the quiet bits quiet enough. Would be nice if someone knows where I'm referring to on the net as I'd like to download those clips this time.

Top
#1105105 - 01/09/06 05:59 PM Re: Fur Elise
dfvanden Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 176
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Got to confess I don't use the pedal for any of this song. It doesn't sound too disjointed to me without it. I have a 90 year old piano, so perhaps the bass has a bit of auto-sustain in it!

Top
#1105106 - 02/07/06 04:27 AM Re: Fur Elise
laceyjo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Scotland
Fur Elise used to be my favourite piece to play. I played it when I was a Girl Guide for my Music Lover's badge. That was approx 25 years ago, I seldom lift the lid of my piano these days except to play Carols at Christmas time. I dug Fur Elise out the other day and can't believe how rusty I have become! Not surprising as I hardly ever play! Now I'm struggling to read the section where both hands cross over the the right hand side. Is there anywhere online where I can see exactly which notes has to be played when playing right hands together? Hope this makes sense!

Top
#1105107 - 02/07/06 07:08 AM Re: Fur Elise
dfvanden Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 176
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Err..the way I play it, my left hand barely goes far into the treble at all, except for a few octave-spanning E's. For the little D#/E's that you're meant to alternate with the right hand, I opt for a less artistic look and play them all with my right. If you're talking about the two bars which are played an octave higher, it's only the right hand that does that. The left plays the same chord. Laziness like this is why I only ever got to the start of Grade 3 as a teen and am currently languishing in Grade 2 twenty five years later.

Top
#1105108 - 02/07/06 07:55 AM Re: Fur Elise
musdan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 1209
The version of Fur Elise I have does not have crossovers - I'm happy to say.

Looking forward to the day, when I start to learn a piece with crossovers, should be fun since I'm left-handed. \:\)

Top
#1105109 - 02/07/06 08:16 AM Re: Fur Elise
Euan Morrison Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 1588
Loc: Edinburgh
 Quote:
Originally posted by laceyjo:
Fur Elise used to be my favourite piece to play. I played it when I was a Girl Guide for my Music Lover's badge. That was approx 25 years ago, I seldom lift the lid of my piano these days except to play Carols at Christmas time. I dug Fur Elise out the other day and can't believe how rusty I have become! Not surprising as I hardly ever play! Now I'm struggling to read the section where both hands cross over the the right hand side. Is there anywhere online where I can see exactly which notes has to be played when playing right hands together? Hope this makes sense! [/b]
Sorry I cant really help you on the topic at hand, but would just like to say my 'Welcome to the Forum' bit.

And also - a fellow Scot! - I've seen a few from England, and Wales, but you are the first person from north of the border I've met so far. Wherabouts are you from?


Good luck!
Euan.

Top
#1105110 - 02/07/06 09:02 AM Re: Fur Elise
laceyjo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Scotland
I'm not far from Aberdeen, Euan. The version I have of Fur Elise is from the "Instructive and Tuneful" series. Now I just need to get a grip and go back to basics with reading music again. Perhaps I should go back to the Jack and Jills series of books when I began piano as a kid!

Top
#1105111 - 02/07/06 09:52 AM Re: Fur Elise
Euan Morrison Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 1588
Loc: Edinburgh
If you are going back to the beginning to learn stuff again, one book which always gets a good mention here is C.Chang - Fundamentals of Piano Practice. Not just because it contains good advice, but also because its free!

http://www.sinerj.org/~loyer/PianoBook/piano-practice-a4wide-10pt.pdf

Other people may be able to recommend a course of books which are suited to you. Are you thinking on getting a teacher, or just learn by yourself?

It might be a good idea to start up a new post, something like 'New person saying hi' etc, most people do that when they join - you sort of say where you are at in terms of standard, what sort of music you like / would like to play, and any general questions. You will get the full welcome!

Ah, Aberdeen - just spent 5 years at uni there! (didnt learn any doric tho!)

Euan.

Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
Composer Statuettes
(ad) Teaching Music To Children
Teaching Music to Children
(ad) Yamaha Stage Pianos
Yamaha CP4 & CP40 Stage Pianos
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
Wessell Nickel & Gross
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Bach Fugue - Hearing 3 Voices
by Raindrops
08/05/15 12:41 AM
Floating the pitch
by Bourniplus
08/05/15 12:15 AM
Question for memorizing left hand
by zyxwvu
08/04/15 11:08 PM
Bo's twin for sale (Bosendorfer 225 deal!)
by twocats
08/04/15 07:16 PM
Which great pianists of the past were notoriously nervous?
by pianoloverus
08/04/15 06:10 PM
What's Hot!!
New Forum for Selling Your Products or Services
--------------------
Historic Piano Documents
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
80,255 Registered Members
44 Forums
166,000 Topics
2,433,131 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission