Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Chopin Group-Raindrop

WELCOME TO OUR GROUP. WE ARE LEARNING TO PLAY CHOPIN'S PRELUDE IN DFLAT...OP 28, #15. We are referring to it as the RAINDROP prelude. While there is some disagreement about the title, we are using it for the sake of convenience and because it sounds "lovely."

Obviously with a piece so complicated, there are many issues to be considered. I have tried to link together as many questions, comments, concerns, etc. that have been posted by our members. Since this is my first effort at linking, please be kind if I have goofed up here and there.

GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE PRELUDE

Chopin's preludes (24 in all) are considered by many to be one of his finest works. They, like his etudes, vary in skill level, offerring a wide variety of techniques...something for everyone.

This prelude is 89 measures long.

It has been rated as a level 9 out of 10 in a Conservatory of Music syllabus.

Some transcriptions (depending on the publisher) are 3 to 4 pages long.

The more pages, the easier to read.

If you require an easier to read copy, please PM me and I can send it to you.

Basically, we have divided the prelude into 3 sections. Just our way of referring to the prelude for convenience.

Measures 1-27 are the introduction.
Measures 28-75 - the storm and thunder section
Measures 76-89 - the ending.

CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO ACCESS THE TOPIC INDICATED:

Recording of the Prelude by Ashkenazy

For Encouragement

Our Group T-Shirts!!

Possible Background Story of Prelude

More Interesting Stories about Prelude

Different Transcriptions

Free Transcriptions

Sugestive Pedaling

Explanation of Different Pedals

Holding Middle C starting in Measure Three/Fingering

Spliting the Chord in Measure Nine

Not Rolled in Measure Nine

Triple Grace Notes in Measures 11, 15, 17

Theory
Question - Measures 26-28

Some Theory Questions and Answers

Alternate Fingering in Measures Starting at 28

Fingering for Measures 35 & 50

Recording of Measures 63-67 for Tempo

Quite a Stretch for Measures 60-75

Real Stretch for Measures Beginning at 72

Interesting Pictures of Chopin and his Hands

Playing it His Way or Our Way?

Using Comfortable Fingering/Hand Size a Factor?

More suggestions for adjusted fingering

One of our Group\'s Recording of Prelude

More of our recordings

More Group Recordings

Another Group Recording

Recording Problems and Suggestions

Sore Wrists?

Link for Chopin Music


[--------------------
"We are the creation of some famous maker, in his way a kind of Stradivarius, who is no longer there to mend us.

F. Chopin

OK, I'm checking in. I vote for beginning with the Raindrop. Re editions - I doubt if it matters very much. For reference we should number the measures. I'll be using the Paderewski myself. I like the slightly larger format as my sight is not wonderful. Re time - I have no idea. I think it just depends on in what state we decide to leave it when we move on to something else. For example, I've been working on one (complicated) Bach fugue for over a year. I could "play" it a year ago. I just keep raising the bar on myself. We should be prepared to be flexible.

Checking in. I started to give the Raindrop a play-through when I saw this thread a few moments ago. What a great piece. I practiced the first page a little bit and then moved on the second... And I was having a "moment"... But then the oven timer went off. It broke the spell and I completely fell apart on the third page - But who can be mad at dessert?

My edition is in an old exam repertoire book I have from about 10 years ago. The note at the bottom promises that the dynamics and articulations are original, so although I'll probably have a different edition from everyone else, it shouldn't matter.

How long will it take me? I'm not sure. Not too long to get the notes under my fingers, but probably a while to really do it justice. I'm also working on a few other pieces at the moment, so that will slow me down too. I'm okay with whatever pace gets chosen.

Thanks for taking the initiative to start this thread, Kathleen.

I'm checking in too. I have 2 editions (including a Henle I just purchased a few months ago). I agree we can work with different editions on this one (might make it more interesting).

I appreciate the low key & casual approach to the Raindrop...I think the consensus from the other thread was to spend about 2 months on it?

I'll bookmark this page in case the thread drops and I want to locate it quickly.

(MP3 file sounds like a good idea to me)

Hi, all!

I'm checkin' in for Chopin! The Raindrop edition I have is from Schirmer Performance Editions. The notes are the same as the Henle, but I felt a bit easier to read (actually, I cheaped out). This is a piece I will be learning for my lessons, but probably not until August (we break for July). I will see about starting it early...and maybe it will be ready for polish by August! ha ha

Actually, I like the slow and easy approach, also...low stress.

Lynn

Opus, I posted mp3 files of all the classical pieces on June 5, in your thread, here:


http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/32/2368/2.html


Scroll half-way down.

Mel

I'll check in and vote for 'Raindrop'.

The Ashkenazy recording has been on my playlist for the last few months. This piece is still over my head, but it is something I want to play. I probably won't have much to contribute, but I'll be watching with interest.

I'm checking in for the Raindrop. I'm using the Alfred edition of the complete preludes, which is chock-full of footnotes on how editors have treated ornaments and pedaling. The original text is in black, and editorial changes are in gray, with explanatory footnotes, so it's like an education reading the thing.

I have and like the Ashkenazy recording, too.

Can I stick my name down for the Prelude as well. I will start off by saying that the piece is way above my level and I probably shouldn't be attempting it, but I'm willing to put in some work and I'm sure I will learn a lot from everyone else (and the free t-shirt offer is just too good to pass up!)

The only transcription I have are the free versions on the internet:
http://www.free-scores.com/download-sheet-music.php?pdf=296

http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/compositions_b/pre28_15.pdf

Maybe someone could check them out and say whether they are decent enough to work from or should I buy a copy.

I also only have the one recording, by Martha Argerich.

Thanks.

That's one of the problems with this forum for me, you all make everything sound so good, so convenient, so beneficial...I already have two versions of the Raindrop, and now I also want the Alfred Edition (and I didn't even know I needed it until this morning )

yes, that was the clencher for me too!

Thank you all for checking in. Now that I have your names...aha, I gotcha!

Of course, I'm kidding.

So glad we seem to be on the same page (no pun intended). The pace will be slow and as user-friendly as possible. To use that trite, but, oh-so-true, saying..."there's nothing that succeeds like success." Let's give us a chance to succeed. All of our egos could use a boost.

I expect more people will read the main post over the weekend, and we will get more Chopinites signing up.

But, for now, we all agree that we will start with the Raindrop.

People can use the transcription with which they feel the most comfortable. As Frycek mentioned, it is important that the measures are the same in our copies. This way, when one of us has a question, it will be much easier to figure out where the problem lies.

People can begin as soon as they choose.

And the "end" date is undetermined. I think each of us can set this date on his/he own. But just so we don't lose some of you, perhaps within 6 months might be reasonable.

For those who finish much sooner; you can always begin the waltz or just take a break or perhaps join another learning group. The choice will be yours to make.

Euan: I admire your willingness to attempt this beautiful composition. It may help you to know that (as I have so often related), it took me a long, long time to learn this prelude, initially. It was way over my head, also. But since I loved it so, I kept at it for months and months. Then, that day came. I sat down and actually played it perfectly from beginning to end...in all its glory. I can't tell you how thrilled I was. I'll never forget that day.

But, I have a suggestion and one I think many of us who have had experience with this prelude would agree with. Your transcription is fine. However, it's so squeezed together making it very difficult to read. And reading this prelude is two/thirds the battle. So, if you decide to use yours, fine, but if you could enlarge it in some way, I know you'll find the going easier. The more white...the better. This way you can have more room to write in your fingering and other little notes you may need to insert. If you don't have access to an enlarger, I will scan my copy, which is 4 pages long...as opposed to your 3. Please let me know. I think you will be less intiminated by the longer, but "wider" version.

Copper: The same encouragement for you. If you love the piece, you will succeed. I'm not saying that somewhere along the way, you might not start to dislike it somewhat, but that will pass. And we need to remember that this thread's main purpose is to provide help, so don't worry about making any contributions. Your questions and concerns will be your contributions, and you can be assured they will be given top priority.

Pianolina: Wow, I'm impressed with your progress so far. Maybe you should be the one running this thread. And I agree, dessert always has to come first! You go, girl!

Jeff: Good idea about bookmarking this page. Just how does one go about doing that...for the uninformed, like me?

Lynn: Take your break. I have a feeling you will catch up and probably surpass a few of us.

Mel: Thanks for the MP3 file. I recommend to all to listen to the prelude the way it should be played. It's like that carrot dangling in front of the donkey. We may never reach it, but it's something to strive for.

Prelude Op.28 No.15

As usual, I have gone on too long. But I wanted to greet each of you personally.

"Let the games begin!!" Good luck.

Kathleen

Hi Jeff:

I was writing while you were.

I do suppose this thread may sound "too good to be true." But I feel, as the main threadist, that my job, aside from organizing, is to motivate and encourage and, of course, to help provide answers to questions and concerns.

I just don't want this to be some kind of competition.

I agree that the Alfred editions of anything are great. I have a compliation of an introduction to Chopin works (complete with a CD) and the pieces are spread out to two and three pages, and suggested fingering is light gray.

I would definitely recommend his edition. I found one at my local music store but didn't buy it. However, if you can't find it (check with Mary Anna or Amazon), I will be happy to buy it for you and send it ASAP. Let me know.

Kathleen

Well, I've been avoiding opening this thread, because I already have too much on my practice menu. But I have wanted to play the Raindrop for about a million years, so maybe I can sort of get organzined and participate in this group as well. So put me down as a tenative member.

I also have an edition that's all squished on the page, maybe I'll buy the Henle, since I can't get the Alfred here in Japan.

Opus, do you happen to know if the Henle for Chopin as nice and spread out as Henle is for Bach's Inventions?

loveschopintoomuch,

Bookmarking is very easy. If you're using Internet Explorer as your browser, just click favorites on the menu at the top and then click "Add to Favorites". You may want to create a unique folder first by clicking "Favorites > Organize Favorites > Create Folder (then give the folder a name...i did this & called it ABF Piano Groups). In either case, click add to favorites & it will be there for instant recal whenever you want it.

I also wonder if we want to check into setting up a seperate forum for the learning groups (not sure if this would even be possible or desirable). I don't think these learning groups will be overwhelming in the ABF. I think in time they will all sink down on the list only to be revived from time to time as group participants want to ask questions/share experiences/post measures/post recordings/etc... Perhaps I'll bring this issue up in a separate thread?

Shiro, the Henle version is 3 pages. I would be happy to scan & share with you since I'm going to the office today anyway. I'll send you a pdf document. Feel free to share any interesting pdf documents you think I might enjoy as well . We never know do we?

[Edit: loveschopintoomuch, i would be interested in seeing this 4 page version of the Raindrop you were talking about... i'll send my Email by PM ]

Glad to have you ShiroKuro. Your name is added to the list.

I'm creating a "For What It's Worth" (FWIW) column. Just for bits of information about the piece that you have discovered and feel might be helpful to others.

FWIW:
I was complaining about the 2/5 and 2/4 fingering starting in the 3rd measure. And I decided to use 1/4 and 1/5. However, this morning, I found that stretch much easier and with a little practice, I could hold down the middle C. So perhaps what seems impossible at first, just might work with some determination.

Kathleen

Here is some inspiration, provided by Vladimir Ashkenazy.

http://www.savefile.com/files/7469382

Kathleen

Thanks, Jeff. I'll be sure to bookmark our page.

I will send the 4 page version of the Raindrop to you later this afternoon. I have to get my scanner from the basement and set it up.

I think this expanded copy is great on the eyes.

Kathleen

And everyone!! Please don't go through all the trouble of typing out my forum name. I'm Kathleen.

Kathleen,

Could you please clarify what you mean by the 2/5 and 2/4 fingering in the 3rd measure? I have a different edition, and the fingerings appear to be different.

Pianolina:
I'm certain that the fingering "suggestions" in my copy "An Anthology of Piano Music: The Romantic Period" are purely that...suggestions.

No where in the forward to this anthology is it mentioned that the fingering is what Chopin indicated. And even if it did, I have a feeling the composer would want us to play it as best suits us.

So I wouldn't give one ounce of concern to the concept of the "correct" fingering, for I don't believe there is such an animal. I do believe that we need to find what works for us however it might differ from what is indicated on the page.

Since you have played this piece before and are finding no real difficulty with it, I'd say stick with what you have been doing.

But to answer your question: My third measure begins with a middle C and G in the left hand, noted as 4/2 (4 on the C, and 2 on the G ...the C is a dotted half and has to be held while the 2 finger goes from G (switching to 1) to Aflat and then Bflat, still using the thumb). Of course the 5th finger is sounding out a lower A. And the right hand is only playing a Eflat (3), F (4) and G (5)...a half note.

I bet you are sorry you asked! But looking at the measure will clear it up. It's tricky fingering, especially when having to hold down those half notes.

In the 9th measure comes the real surprise. In the LH, a chord starting on the Dflat below middle C, then middle Cflat, then the F above it. Fingering is noted as 5 2 1. That's an 11 note stretch. I'm playing the F with my right (1)hand along with the F (5) noted in the treble clef above this chord.

I thought it especially important to read that the melody line must be brought out (as in all Romantic music). And what is so great about Chopin is that a lot of his music only has one note (the human voice, if you will) in the right hand. That note is supposed to sing out over the left hand's thunderous and pounding chords. In the middle, the right hand has some chords, but watch out for the note in the chord beginning in measure 36 and later on becoming a couplet. In this area, those notes are the voice and need to really come out...above all else.

I'm sure you know all this.

I just love the above-mentioned section. Not for the massive chords, but for the quality of tone that single/double note creates.

I hope I helped clear up any concerns about fingering.

I'm going to get my scanner working, so if we need to compare measures, whatever, it will be a lot easier.

Continued success, Kathleen

Kathleen:

Had my first few attempts at the piece today. Managed to struggle through the first 8 bars, although its not up to speed or anything yet. It will take time, but it was a good start

Yamaha produce a book entitled '50 Greats for the Piano'. The Raindrop Prelude extends to 5 pages in it! And it also has fingerings, so I think I will be using that edition.

In bar 9 (in the Yamaha book) the large stretch is broken by playing the top note with the right hand. Might help those with smaller hands