Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1108839 - 02/20/09 04:50 PM Pathetique 2nd Movement, what's missing?
cardguy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 977
Hello fellow adults and adults in the making \:\)

All you Beethoven specialists: I'm working my way through 2nd movement and it's just stunningly beautiful and a wonderful piece of music to play. I can't stop playing it.

But something's missing in my arrangement I think. Measures 20-22 seem to be lacking a few of those little quick "trills" for lack of a better word that I've heard elsewhere...

Would it be possible for someone to post what those measures are supposed to look like, assuming I'm right? Not sure it's possible to do that, but if it is I know I've come to the right place...

Many advance thanks,
CG

Top
(ads P/S)

Petrof Pianos

#1108840 - 02/20/09 05:21 PM Re: Pathetique 2nd Movement, what's missing?
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Some editions are public domain. Here's one from IMSLP:

http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/c/c8/IMSLP00008-Beethoven__L.v._-_Piano_Sonata_08.pdf

Hope this helps!

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

Top
#1108841 - 02/20/09 05:51 PM Re: Pathetique 2nd Movement, what's missing?
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
In case it's helpful to see both turns written out, this is a footnote from the edition published by Schirmer:

_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

Top
#1108842 - 02/20/09 09:33 PM Re: Pathetique 2nd Movement, what's missing?
Mocheol Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 527
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
The edition on the link is slightly different to mine but the fundamentals are sound.

The turns at 19 & 20 seem fine to me.Your own edition should have them. Theres something wrong if it doesnt

On my edition at bar 20, 2nd movement the left hand is played staccatto for a while. Also there are minor dimuendo and crescendo notations from bar 18 ,19,20,I think.

Bars 18,19,& 20 are extremely difficult to get just right because co-ordinating the timing of the turns and keeping the left hand pulse going is hard.

I will not tell you how many years it took me to perfect this but it is worth the effort in the end.
.
If I knew how to I would post a copy of my edition.
_________________________
vcz

Top
#1108843 - 02/21/09 04:04 AM Re: Pathetique 2nd Movement, what's missing?
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Agree with the "turns" kindly presented by sv .

However the intricacies of the note patterns (using traditional notation) sadly don’t convey an image of the exact aural shape ... to this end my school is provided with a MIDI linear diagram which helps sort out the correct number of notes
in relation to the 4-beats per measure.

midi of m20-21

That first "turn" in m20 (first by sv) is a stinker ... preceding the F the 4 notes of the turn are squeezed into a fraction of an eighth of a measure (5/6th to be precise!)... but don’t panic ... this squiggle looks far simpler when drawn out.

The turn in m21 is a double stinker ... but again easy to comprehend when given a linear format ... you will notice that the turn closes with a 2.2.1.4 cram of notes to the C ... the first 3 within the duration of a quarter-beat and the last ... a half-beat to match the LH chord durations.

Top
#1108844 - 02/21/09 10:24 AM Re: Pathetique 2nd Movement, what's missing?
Mocheol Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 527
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
My teacher taught me how to overcome this problem with the turns.
1] Play the section through without the turns.get the timing and rhythm perfectly in your head.Memorize it thoroughly
2] practice the turns on their own until you have them perfectly
3] Playing very slowly and evenly try to integrate turns,melody and accompanyment
4] keep at it.
_________________________
vcz

Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
Our latest Issue is available now...
Piano News - Interesting & Fun Piano Related Newsletter! (free)
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
133 registered (accordeur, 36251, AmateurBob, ando, 42 invisible), 1608 Guests and 14 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75584 Members
42 Forums
156289 Topics
2295321 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Shostakovich and Prokofiev
by Verbum mirabilis
Today at 06:01 PM
Used piano buying choices
by BrianDX
Today at 05:55 PM
You & Your Piano
by DancerJ
Today at 05:12 PM
Fun etudes?
by chasingrainbows
Today at 04:41 PM
Music competitions are rife with corruption says JLWebber
by pianoloverus
Today at 02:51 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission