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#1108839 - 02/20/09 04:50 PM Pathetique 2nd Movement, what's missing?
cardguy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 977
Hello fellow adults and adults in the making \:\)

All you Beethoven specialists: I'm working my way through 2nd movement and it's just stunningly beautiful and a wonderful piece of music to play. I can't stop playing it.

But something's missing in my arrangement I think. Measures 20-22 seem to be lacking a few of those little quick "trills" for lack of a better word that I've heard elsewhere...

Would it be possible for someone to post what those measures are supposed to look like, assuming I'm right? Not sure it's possible to do that, but if it is I know I've come to the right place...

Many advance thanks,

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#1108840 - 02/20/09 05:21 PM Re: Pathetique 2nd Movement, what's missing?
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Some editions are public domain. Here's one from IMSLP:


Hope this helps!


#1108841 - 02/20/09 05:51 PM Re: Pathetique 2nd Movement, what's missing?
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
In case it's helpful to see both turns written out, this is a footnote from the edition published by Schirmer:

#1108842 - 02/20/09 09:33 PM Re: Pathetique 2nd Movement, what's missing?
Mocheol Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 527
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
The edition on the link is slightly different to mine but the fundamentals are sound.

The turns at 19 & 20 seem fine to me.Your own edition should have them. Theres something wrong if it doesnt

On my edition at bar 20, 2nd movement the left hand is played staccatto for a while. Also there are minor dimuendo and crescendo notations from bar 18 ,19,20,I think.

Bars 18,19,& 20 are extremely difficult to get just right because co-ordinating the timing of the turns and keeping the left hand pulse going is hard.

I will not tell you how many years it took me to perfect this but it is worth the effort in the end.
If I knew how to I would post a copy of my edition.

#1108843 - 02/21/09 04:04 AM Re: Pathetique 2nd Movement, what's missing?
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4264
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Agree with the "turns" kindly presented by sv .

However the intricacies of the note patterns (using traditional notation) sadly don’t convey an image of the exact aural shape ... to this end my school is provided with a MIDI linear diagram which helps sort out the correct number of notes
in relation to the 4-beats per measure.

midi of m20-21

That first "turn" in m20 (first by sv) is a stinker ... preceding the F the 4 notes of the turn are squeezed into a fraction of an eighth of a measure (5/6th to be precise!)... but don’t panic ... this squiggle looks far simpler when drawn out.

The turn in m21 is a double stinker ... but again easy to comprehend when given a linear format ... you will notice that the turn closes with a cram of notes to the C ... the first 3 within the duration of a quarter-beat and the last ... a half-beat to match the LH chord durations.

#1108844 - 02/21/09 10:24 AM Re: Pathetique 2nd Movement, what's missing?
Mocheol Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 527
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
My teacher taught me how to overcome this problem with the turns.
1] Play the section through without the turns.get the timing and rhythm perfectly in your head.Memorize it thoroughly
2] practice the turns on their own until you have them perfectly
3] Playing very slowly and evenly try to integrate turns,melody and accompanyment
4] keep at it.


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