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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,678
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So you guys are actually arguing about whether the muscles grow bigger in size and maybe missing each other on that point?
I wonder - my family dabbled in farming when I was growing up. My mother started milking cows, which is a repetitive action of opening and closing the hand. Her fingers increased in size and she could no longer wear her wedding ring. What is it that increased - muscle or something else?
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
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Re: Alan Frazer, you know turning his hand on his side he can reach an octave using only fingers 3 and 5? It's a useful manoeuvre. I discovered myself doing it the other day for an awkward 6th. As I said, his hands are so powerful (naturally) he can 'work' the keyboard with little to no arm use.
For the price I'm sure the CD is no rip-off but neither is it a be-all-and-end-all.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,203
7000 Post Club Member
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7000 Post Club Member
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Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
Re: Alan Frazer, you know turning his hand on his side he can reach an octave using only fingers 3 and 5? It's a useful manoeuvre. I discovered myself doing it the other day for an awkward 6th. As I said, his hands are so powerful (naturally) he can 'work' the keyboard with little to no arm use.
For the price I'm sure the CD is no rip-off but neither is it a be-all-and-end-all. Klutz, the video is ALL about arm use. I was actually surprised. It's about combining Arm use with finger (intrinsic hand muscles only). The book sounded like finger. He discussed how your hand shape may vary so yes his hand shape did not look like mine, but really not clear in the book. I'm telling you klutz, I haven't found anything that you don't particularly agree with.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,203
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Originally posted by rintincop: Originally posted by jazzwee:
[b]
What specifically got me in the video was a demonstrated manuever that was causing me pain. It was a classical thing he was demonstrating but it was my biggest issue in jazz. He was demonstrating some other point then he showed this accenting every other note that sounded so much like Jazz swing, and not done by pressing the weight from the arm. Arm weight appeared constant and the extra acceleration from the articulation came from the knuckle. It was part of a "Tai-Chi" example. Prior to seeing that, I was not clear how to do this articulation. My own classical technique teacher did not have an answer as she could not refer to any classical repertoire that had this particular articulation. It clearly was missing from the arm weight training she espoused to me and really passed it on as something specialized in jazz. I was left with doing additional articulation of accents by adding more arm weight. In jazz this is EVERY OTHER NOTE. Result: Pain. In the video Fraser was just doing a demonstration and was not playing any particular kind of music as the subject was 'playing legato'. It's just the spot that answered my ongoing question about articulation and it's pretty similar to the source of the force used by Disciple (the knuckle).
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,203
7000 Post Club Member
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One other interesting tidbit (which again seems to generally agreed upon here) is that to do powerful articulation, he would pull on the keys and counterweighted by the arm. The keys stop the finger from curling so the finger stays in the same arch shape. No curling of distal joints occur.
I try this and I can feel the intrinsic muscles under the knuckles and the upper arm/chest contracting. None of these muscles should be an issue with tendonitis as far as all of you have said here.
Even Mr. Kitty's playing seems to have this incorporated (albeit he says it is all finger).
In any case, because of this change in my playing, I have reducing pain in my tendonitis which suggests it is healing.
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 274
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Full Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 274 |
In the last few months I've learned a technique (if you can call it that) that has significantly helped reduce pain in my wrist, especially the right hand. I'm still working on the left hand. It is basically playing, when possible, with my hand in a certain position. I'll try to describe it.
Place your hand flat on a table or other surface, fingers somewhat spread but hand basically relaxed. Now bring the tips of your thumb and forefinger together, without curling the forefinger and while keeping the outside edge (along the pinky) in contact with the table. This requires your hand to close a bit and arch up Now slightly release the thumb and forefinger so they are close but not touching.
The result is an arched, cupping sort of position of the hand. There is about a 45 degree line going from the outside edge of the base of the pinky through the base knuckle of each finger, and your wrist is correspondingly rotated so that the inside is pointing upward at around the same angle. If your hand is relaxed this is a completely natural position for your hand to be in.
Try to have your hand in this position while playing. It is difficult to describe, I should try to make a little video for youtube to demonstrate. (Unfortunately we have lost our firewire and haven't gotten a new one.) But try stretching your pinky out and hit an octave or chord with octave (this hand position actually has, or should have, the effect of extending your range). It feels different or odd at first but in my case, once I got used to it there has been a noticeable lack of pain that would show up after awhile if I play anything that requires stress or tension. I'm bumping this old thread! I think this is great advice. I've seen other pianists in this exact position I tried emulating it myself with no avail. But as you describe doing I found myself doing it and finding a relaxed position (understanding that the pinky knuckle is lower than index knuckle was the key for me). I think Rick Jones @ Rick Jones Piano has this exact form if you watch his left hand in some of his demo videos. Correct me if I'm wrong. Here is one... the left hand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7tOJflHDiI
Last edited by DeadPoets; 11/10/14 10:47 AM.
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