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Oh, I forgot to mention. I think this is definitely a 3-6 month piece for me as well. If I can get to the point where I can play through to the end in 3 months, then I might be able to have it a decent tempo to make a recording at about the 6th month.

The good thing about DK's timeline is that, even if someone (in other words, me) is not up to that tempo, we can still move forward as a group.

I am flexible, I just wanted to keep the ball rolling since you got it started. I know it is not optimal, I just have always approached the song front to back because I feel like it...

So you propose that we look at measures 26-34, which could be further broken down into two phrases: 26-29 and 30-34.

What about 35-38? This is the equivalent to the measures you posted previously that have the ackward timing. Where do you rank that in difficulty?

Also, how would you approach the key change. As it is deemed next hardest within the entire piece or do you work in one key and then apply it to the key change later?

If everyone likes this approach we can break down the rest of the piece and evaluate for relative difficulty.

I am also curious how far into this song you have already gotten? You say you are taking it to your teacher tomorrow. Are you switching to the Burrows version, even though you started with Kanemasu? Have you worked with your teacher on this song at all or has it been all self study?

While we are still establishing how we are going to do this I thought I would share my first (informal) practice session.

I printed the score and listened to the Burrows mp3 probably 5-10 times before sitting down at the piano. I then sat at the piano and went through the first 18 measures without any real timing just to establish my fingering. Once I was sure of my fingering I set the metronome to 1/8=50 and worked out the timing. I worked this up to 1/8=100 and then reset the metronome to 1/4=50. I didn't want to get too carried away before we actually get started so I stopped trying to progress any more. I then just toyed around with measures 19-29 right hand only no metronome... Looks like this is really going to be a fun piece to learn.

Anybody else getting a sneak peek in?

from ShiroKuro (breathing a big sigh of relief)
Thank you ShiroKuro, I was afraid you were going to suggest we rip through this by July and then move directly onto Rachmaninoff's "Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini".
Yes, I would agree. Good looking plan dk! Thanks for helping us think this through!

I know exactly the spot, since that's where I started as well!

We need to figure out some good fingerings for the left hand there. I'm still working on it, haven't found something really good and comfy yet. (Darn small hands!)

I haven't even begun to consider left hand fingering for those measures. I have some theoretical ideas, but I have difficulty picturing my fingering without physically working through what feels right. Maybe I can get some ideas on that tonight.

BTW thanks Nina for publishing an mp3 of the Burrows transcription.

I listened to the piece once and also liked it.
Not sure though if I can dedicate as much time to it with my current repertoire.
But if it's ok I will jump in once in awhile while learning the piece as much as I can and giving my two cents.

Peter

If it is okay, I would like to join this group as well as the Beginner-Intermediate one. If you are all looking at a 3-6 month timetable, starting with a slow tempo, I should be able to manage.

Where are you all beginning? What page and measure? (What 16th note thingy?) I started working on page 1 last night. This is a great piece and rather addictive.

Shiro, do you mean the 26th measure? That does look tricky... so many notes! (This piece might have more notes than the rest of my repertoire combined!)

Any suggestions -- hands together or separately? I'm thinking separately, since it's the agility of the fingers that I'll need to focus on, not coordination so much.

I am just going to try to do only the FIRST page for now. I will work on playing the right notes , before I figure out the correct fingering for those notes.

I will do the right hand separately, then left hand separately,then both hands together, and then I will try to get the tempo right. The tempo from what I can see right now, is going to be the biggest challenge of all. From the way I look at it the more you practice it the better chance you have of getting the tempo right. And some of you will be better at this part that I will !
that all has to come together before I will move to the 2nd page.

Some of you maybe able to move faster than me. Now I am thinking 6 months is the amount of time I think it might take me to go through the whole piece.
......

First of all, to all who've asked if they can join, yes! Please join us, there's no requirement, and you can come and go as you like.

Also, I don't think we *have* to work on the same spot, but if we are, we can give each other better advice. And as has been mentioned, this piece is full of repeated patterns, so even if we're not on the same page (literally!) we will probably be doing about the same stuff.

Yellowville, measure 26, yes.

DK, I don't know how to rank the difficulty.. For me, the straighforward 16th notes (like in measure 26) are easier to play than the rhythmically challenging stuff like 35.. But the 16th notes are probably harder to get up to speed.

Oh, and I haven't gotten very far at all on this piece, I've just been dabbling and haven't even played it for a few days because I've been trying to record Overcome. I think I'll do the Burrows, but I may slip into a few things from the other. I haven't shown the score to me teacher before now, it seems like every lesson I have something new to show her, so I'm trying to pace it so as not to drive her completely crazy! :p

Also, I don't know how we should rank the key change... maybe that should be worked on later? What does everyone think?

Hmm, I'm looking at everyone's posts and am starting to forget what I wanted to say, so one last thing and then I have to get ready for my lesson!

Another practice strategy is to use the metronome and double the beat. in other words, 8 clicks a measure, esp for the 16th note runs or rhythmically challenging parts. Practice it slowly but accurately. Go back and forth between metronome and no metronome. I did this a little with the other arrangement and that really helps to get my fingers moving correctly. Then when I shut off the metronome, I'll better able to work on speeding up.

Ok..I played through measures 26 - 29 but of course at a snail pace. The fingering for the RH is rather straight forward but I found the LH to be abit challenging and not sure if I even have the best fingering.

Here's my fingering for the LH for measure 26 :

5-4-2-1-2-1-2-4-5-4-2-1-2-1-2-4

measure 27: (LH)

3-2-1-2-1-2-1-2-5-4-2-1-2-1-2-3

measure 28: (LH)

2-1-3-2-1-2-3-1-5-4-2-1-2-1-2-4

measure 29:

straightforward fingering

Does anyone else have something better or different?

One & All

Our discussion about which version to use is limited to these relatively brief comments:

1. [dk]I am not sure it is worth the effort for everyone to get Kanemasu's transcription when an acceptable equivalent is readily accesible within a few mouse clicks. Either way, though, I am agreeable and would like to participate.
2. [ShiroKuro]And I agree with DK, getting the other arrangement would probably be a logistical nightmare. (I go through heck and high water every time I try to get something from the US.)

Yesterday, ShiroKuro had her teacher compare the two arrangements of the Croatian Rhapsody, who offered this opinion:

"While the two arrangements are comparable in terms of level of difficulty, the Kanemasu transcription might be more interesting to study, rhythmically."

If it's okay with everyone, I know ShiroKuro would really appreciate a little time to see if it would be possible to get the Kanemasu transcription for everyone, as another option. We want to make sure we would be able to obtain the Kanemasu transcription without violating any copyrights, etc.. Be patient, she works full time & has other obligations as well.

Not being in a rush, I am okay with...after all, we're really ahead of schedule anyway.

(hope everyone else is okay with this)

Thank you, Shirokuro, for putting in the extra effort.

I am interested in this piece. Please someone explain why there are two transcriptions? I take it that this was not originally written for piano. What is the history of this piece?

Laura,

We are currently discussing which of two slightly different versions to take on for this project. ShiroKuro might be able to better enlighten you regarding the history of this piece because she is the one that found it.

ShiroKuro has in hand both versions. One of them is available for free on the internet (Burrows) and the other she found in a Japanese magazine and is trying to determine how (if possible) to get us a copy of that version without infringing on any copyrights.

Hi Laura, glad you're joining in.

It's about 4:30 AM in Japan right now & ShiroKuro has a planned adventure to an elementary school on a tiny island tomorrow morning so she may not have time to do much tomorrow.

Opus, thanks

Yes, I am just going to leave to go to the port, and the news is saying we're supposed to have rough seas today! I'll be going in one of those little boats that sits low in the water (not a big ferry that can carry cars) and if the sea is too rough, the boat doesn't go out, which means that those children get no English lesson today. Or, if the boat does go, I come back all green. Ok, enough rambling off topic!

Anyway, I'll just write briefly.

Laura, this piece was written by a composer who does sort of rock-classical music (whatever that is.) I think this particular piece was written for piano, but with some extra instruments in the recording by the pianist Maksim.

The reason there are two arrangements is simple. First of all, it's very common for different arrangement to be floating around, esp of music that's "popular" in terms of being able to sell a lot of scores.

Secondly, the Burrows arrangement is probably exactly the same as the recording in terms of length and sections, whereas the Kanemasu one probably used the original as a guide without worrying about matching it exactly.

Because in the original, there are synths and so on, other instruments provide some of the rhythmic elements. From what I can tell, the Kanemasu arrangement appears to take that into consideration and that's why the LHis a little different.

Oops, I am running out of time. Tonight I'll scan in a few measures that will let everyone get an idea of what differences I'm talking about. And see if it's easy for people to order the Kanemasu arrangement if they're interested. Having said that, the RH seems virtually identical, and because of the similarities, I think we would still be able to work as a group even if some of us had a different arrangement. What do people think about that possibility?