this is going to be a really odd.
here are my questions....(for a friend of course)

1. do you record yourself playing?

2. do you find you play better or worse when you are recording? why?

2a. if you are used to recording and dont record yourself playing do you find your playing gets sloppy?

3. when playing on someone elses piano do you play better or worse?

4. if you have a teacher do you find it easy or hard to play at lessons in front of him/her? why?

5. do you play in front of people?

6. do you play better in front of people or when alone? why?

7. if you play on your piano then play on a piano thats out of tune do you find it hard to play on and mess up alot?

edited:
8. are you mentally lazy??
edited again:
9. you can play a piece well but then you have to repeat it with the second ending---do you play it better the first time or second time around? why?

i hope thats all i can think of(for my friend of course). its just this experiment has gotten alot deeper than i thought originally and its getting funner(is that a word?)


i know its alot of questions....but i am having some odd problems that i need to solve with my playing. thank-you for stopping in to hear my er my "friends" questions

edited again: i hope when this is done, we can all learn something from the results i will post. i am off again for more research. i know i am getting weirder the more i play......

1. Yes (occasionally, about every two months or so)

2. Possibly a little worse. Its hard to tell, but I certainly feel my playing tightens up (in a bad way) towards the end of pieces - I'm thinking to myself "almost done, just don't screw it up!"

2(a) - not really. Regular practice keeps things together (relatively-speaking, in my case )

3. Only tried it once. It was an acoustic that needed work done on it, so it doesn't really count. I would predict that I would play worse to start with (not familiar with the weight of the keys, sound etc) but would maybe get better over a short period. (better than how you first started on the unfamiliar piano, but not better than on your own home piano)

4. n/a

5. Nope. I can record and share my playing with the internet crowds, but haven't yet had the guts to unplug the headphones and play to my parents!

6. Have only played once to other people, and that was on their acoustic (see question 3). I would expect myself to play better alone. Less pressure, and clearer thinking - more relaxed.

7. Not really able to answer. The other piano I played had problems with keys, action, and strings. Was a lot more than just tuning issues!

Funburger, please tell your "friend" that my answers to the questions were:

1. Yes

2. Worse -- performance anxiety, and the misguided notion that any recording must be "perfect."

2a. N/A

3. Worse

4. N/A

5. Yes, but not often enough

6. Worse. Performance anxiety.

7. Yes.

[scratches head wondering what sort of "odd problems" funburger, oops, I mean funburger's "friend" could be having.]

Monica, i will be working with my "friend" today to solve this problem. but with the answers so far it gives me er my friend a head start on things to work out today. its going to be an experiment of sorts to solve this problem, to see where the problem really is......hard to explain...but will get there soon enough. i just really need to work this out urgently. trust me its odd, but its killing my er my friends playing. so off to work on this and hopefully get more answers to get this done today:)

1. do you record yourself playing?

Yes.


2. do you find you play better or worse when you are recording? why?

A tricky question. I generally assume that my recordings are accurate representation of the way I play. If the recording sounds worse than expected, then it means I have overlooked some problem areas. I also find that I can be less forgiving of mistakes when recording - I'm sure this has some sort of negative impact, so I've been making a conscious effort to forgive and move on.


2a. if you are used to recording and dont record yourself playing do you find your playing gets sloppy?

Not really.


3. when playing on someone elses piano do you play better or worse?

Worse, in the beginning. It takes time to adjust, and I frequently don't play different pianos long enough to fully adjust.


4. if you have a teacher do you find it easy or hard to play at lessons in front of him/her? why?

When I used to take lessons, I found it hard. I knew all my little mistakes would be pointed out, so I would try hard not to make them. This obviously led to other problems. I also tended to be shy about putting forth my own interpretations of pieces. I didn't want to be shot down on something so personal.


5. do you play in front of people?

Family, sometimes.


6. do you play better in front of people or when alone? why?

I play best when I am by myself, and I'm usually unbothered by the presence of immediate family. I assume that all other listeners will be listening critically and I judge myself more harshly as a result. (Bad, I know.)

I also played at recitals when I was younger. The adrenaline put some extra spring in my fingers, which always made things interesting.


7. if you play on your piano then play on a piano thats out of tune do you find it hard to play on and mess up alot?

Yes. The aural feedback is very confusing.

Funburger - short and sweet - never recorded until recently (bad bad bad) - never play for others, never play outside my cage, no teacher yet, and finally, I even play bad alone so no experience failing in front of others. I would be so happy to play as well as your friend did with the enteratainer as I am in the same book as that person, and cannot even think about videoing my play.......Everyone on the planet works to be more like someone they admire, and for me, thats your friend......So tell her to chill out and get to work raising the bar so I can get better.....

Even if you are not in front of an audience, I
think, you should still practice as if you are
performing. At least during some part of the
practice session. For about 4-5 weeks I did
this. Practiced as if I'm performing (you play
everything musically, don't stop when you make a
mistake etc). And at these times I felt very
comfortable while playing in front of my
teacher or other audience for that matter. Then,
I stopped doing it. Didn't pay any attention how
I'm practicing. Everything started to get shaky
in front of my teacher and other audience..


However, practicing musically always has its
disadvantages. Sometimes, the piece should not
be played as you feel. For instance, I prefer
playing Fur Elise much slower than how it is
usually played. This is how I feel it should
sound. But this might cause some problems in
front of a real audience. They might think
you're playing it too slowly. Consequently, a
mixture of both (practicing musically and
practicing technically(?)) seems to be the right
way of doing it.


If you're interested, there's a book called "art
of practicing" which I found very helpful. It
kind of combines practicing with meditation. It
is also helpful for relaxtion issues.

1) Not often enough.

2) Depends. At first, usually worse, but if I leave the recorder going long enough, I usually forget about it some.

2a) Don't record often enough to notice a difference.

3) I've only done it once or twice and it was worse, but I don't know if it was the piano or the audience....

4) It's easier now than it used to be. I think I've just gotten used to it.

5) Pretty much only my teacher.

6) Alone. Afraid others will be too critical, which makes ME too critical to relax.

7) Haven't had that happen.

8) Oh yeah!

1. do you record yourself playing?

No

2. do you find you play better or worse when you are recording? why?


2a. if you are used to recording and dont record yourself playing do you find your playing gets sloppy?

N/A

3. when playing on someone elses piano do you play better or worse?

Worse

4. if you have a teacher do you find it easy or hard to play at lessons in front of him/her? why?

I always mess up until I relax - takes 10 minutes or so

5. do you play in front of people?

Yes, but most of my audience is under 7 (I do a music class for a preschool 2 x a month)

6. do you play better in front of people or when alone? why?

In front of people, but it is because I am very relaxed in front of kids and I really know the music I am playing

7. if you play on your piano then play on a piano thats out of tune do you find it hard to play on and mess up alot?

Yes
edited:
8. are you mentally lazy??

Sometimes when I am mentally tired from work I am very sloppy in practice and if I am rushed and not mentally prepared for my lesson I will mess up

Funburger, it sounds like you..er.. yur friend might be having some problems with concentration. Has your friend ever read the book "The Inner Game of Music?" The term "inner game" refers to what's going on in our heads while we're playing. It gives a lot of great advice on how to improve concentration and how to get back concentration when it slips. I highly recommend this book, to everyone not just your friend. Now to answer the questions:

1. Yes, but not all the time. It's a hassle to set things up and get a good sound. I do sometimes record just for my own learning purposes, but usually I only seriously record when I want something to share with people.

2. It depends. It's just like practicing, soetimes I am much better able to concentrate, and then the "red dot" doesn't phase me at all. Other times, suddenly I'm short of breath and my hands are shaking like the biggest earthquake ever.

2a. No, my playing is sometimes sloppy, but it's not because of the presence or absence of the red dot.

3. It depends on my personal state, the piano, how many people are there, etc.

4. Sometimes it's easy (and I even feel like I played better than at home) other times it's awful and I can't play my way out of a paper bag. But I am not usually "nervous" in front of my teacher, we have a really good rapport and that helps of course.

5. Yes, but not as often as I'd like.

6. I usually play better alone because I am better able to concentrate. But there have been the rare times when the listeners don't disturb my concentration and I have finished thinking "that's the best I've ever played that. Ever." I think that happens when I am just able to open myself up completely to the music, and because there are listeners, I become selfless, I'm not trying to show them how "I" play, but I'm trying to share a piece of music, a feeling. And I couldn't acheive that alone.

7. If the piano sounds just awful, or really different from my own, it can throw me off. Also if the touch is much heavier or much lighter, I can get confused. But I try to get used to that piano as quickly as possible and not get caught up in "gee this piano sounds so different." Instead, I just want to accept that piano as it is and work with what it has to give me. (this is esp. important for those old bat up school pianos!)

8. Not often.

Let us know if you..r friend has more questions! Good luck!

I want to add one more thing. When performing
for somebody else including your teacher,
suddenly you start to get aware of your
environment, that is, the seat, what you're
wearing and sometimes even the smallest things
disturb you such as the seat being a little bit
uncorfomtable, or your sleeves being too long.
Or the fact that you're on a different piano.
These things usually don't matter while
practicing, simply we don't care. "The art of
practicing" suggests to make sure you're aware
of the environment even when practicing. Don't
think you're all alone by yourself, take a
minute to concentrate and listen to your
breathe. Don't control it, just listen to it.
Think yourself as a part of the room. It is not
just you and your piano.

Although, these sound weird at first sight, they
helped me. Unfortunately, I stopped doing it for
some time and I can already see the change. For
instance, I'm not that comfortable while playing
to my teacher or to my girlfriend.


I actually started using this technique because
my hands were shaking while playing to my
teacher. Thanks to this method, I was much more
relaxed.

thank-you guys so much for the information provided so far....although i still dont want to get into this right now, but my experiment is backfiring before my eyes(to much coffee very wired). so now i have to wait till this coffee wears off to finish what i started. this has got to be the worst experiment in my life....but i am figuring some things out. i will let you know when i am done. although it may take me 2-3 days to totally do this experiment with my friend:) doing different things. my friend is learning little by little though:) thank-you for your continued responses:)

ps its not backfiring as i am finding out what is making my friend worse.....so now she is really bad

so if we can just reverse this process i am sure me and my friend can figure this out

1. Only if I have something worth recording (rarely)

2. Slightly worse, cause I am trying harder.

2a. N/A

3. I only play on mine.

4. Harder, but I am getting better at playing for her. She's not as intimidating a talent as she was a year and a half ago.

5. No

6. I only play for myself....and to torture the kids.

7. N/A

8. No but I have a tendency towards accepting "good enough"

1. do you record yourself playing?
- occasionally

2. do you find you play better or worse when you are recording? why?
- worse, because usually mentally more tense.

3. when playing on someone elses piano do you play better or worse?
- might be the same, depending on piano also.

4. if you have a teacher do you find it easy or hard to play at lessons in front of him/her? why?
- worse, got nervious sometimes.

5. do you play in front of people?
- occasionally.

6. do you play better in front of people or when alone? why?
- sometimes worse, put pressure on myself to play well; occasionally ok if i don't think about it.

7. if you play on your piano then play on a piano thats out of tune do you find it hard to play on and mess up alot?
- of course.

8. are you mentally lazy??
- no

9. you can play a piece well but then you have to repeat it with the second ending---do you play it better the first time or second time around? why?
- don't know.

Hi Funburger (I hope your friend appreciates all the work you're doing for him or her.

1. Someone in another thread suggested recording yourself more often, for many reasons, including becoming more acclimated and comfortable with performance & recording. A particularly interesting related suggestion was to play the piano with distractions from time to time (i.e. playing with a television set on as a distraction, for practice).

2. I'm hoping in time, if I follow suggestions from #1, I will learn to play less worse when I'm recording.

2a. N/A

3. I've played both better and worse on other people's pianos when compared with playing on my own.

4. When I had a teacher, I usually played worse, unless my *energy* was good.

5. I don't often play in front of people at this time. Probably because I don't have a repertoire that I'm really comfortable with (?). (working on that)

6. I usually always play better alone. Why? Usually much less mental or emotional distractions when compared with player for others.

7. Yes, an out of tune piano can throw me off.

8. Not sure I understand this question?

9. I'm not sure I've ever noticed a pattern in this regard...In general, I will play something best when I'm "in the zone"

1. do you record yourself playing?[/b]
Yes, quite often

2. do you find you play better or worse when you are recording? why?[/b]
Usually worse because I'm trying to hard not to make mistakes

2a. if you are used to recording and dont record yourself playing do you find your playing gets sloppy?[/b]
No

3. when playing on someone elses piano do you play better or worse?[/b]
Only have played a couple of other pianos and I always played worse (if that is even possible)

4. if you have a teacher do you find it easy or hard to play at lessons in front of him/her? why?[/b]
I'm my own teacher...so no

5. do you play in front of people?[/b]
Yes, a few family and friends

6. do you play better in front of people or when alone? why?[/b]
Always play better alone, however, slowly getting used to playing with others listening

7. if you play on your piano then play on a piano thats out of tune do you find it hard to play on and mess up alot?[/b]
Only played a couple of accoustics so don't really know, I usually only play digitals and they are always in tune!

8. are you mentally lazy??[/b]
Yes, mentally and physically

9. you can play a piece well but then you have to repeat it with the second ending---do you play it better the first time or second time around? why?[/b]
The first time because if I played through that far fairly well I start thinking about making it to end and tense up!

1. Yes

2. Usually worse because mentally I keep thinking about the recording instead of the emotion of the song so it sounds practiced instead of natural.

2a. I have gotten beyond playing in the last few months to a point where I listen as I play. It is as if my mind splits in two to play and then another part listens.

3. I play best on mine because I know it like a man knows his wife. I joke with people and tell them I am married to my piano. Me and my digital piano have a connection.

4. I find it hard because she plays like a pro. She teaches play by ear so when I am going along I feel I play like a child compared to her. She waits untill the end of the lesson to show how she does it and to give me ideas because she has noticed that when she plays befor the lesson I play worse.

5. When I can. I like playing in front of people.

6. Currently I play better when alone because I feel free to fully express my self. I like to move around a bit and may even get emotional. I am not comfortable in front of people for that yet.

7. No, I played overcome on an old twangy piano and people still said it was nice. I just kept on going. I also often play without the sound and use only the sound in my head. When I play on an out of tune piano I just replace what is missing with sounds from my memory.

8. Not sure, I do like doing math in my head.

9. I don't think I play any differently but may do a little better the second time around if I am looking forward to the ending.

I am weird, very much so. When I finally started letting people know about my obsession with music they stated "I knew something was wrong with you". They said that explained me acting weird and or crazy.

I think I am just different. I have funky ideas, philosophies, sayings, and a bunch of stuff that people do not get. They look at me like I am mad . I think this only benefits me as a musician.

Be weird, it is good for you! I just hope I do not give musicians a bad name.

You guys are absolutly the greatest!!! this is so much fun!!! my friend cant wait till i am finished with definitive results. waiting on my husband to get home to listen to the differences in recordings. this is sooo much fun!!!!

1. do you record yourself playing? Occasionally.

2. do you find you play better or worse when you are recording? why? Not necessarily worse, but more conscious of my mistakes, which can in turn make me play worse.

2a. if you are used to recording and dont record yourself playing do you find your playing gets sloppy? I'm still getting used to recording myself.

3. when playing on someone elses piano do you play better or worse? I haven't tried that in a while, but it depends on the piano.

4. if you have a teacher do you find it easy or hard to play at lessons in front of him/her? why?
N/A
5. do you play in front of people? I play for my girlfriend and roommates and the occasional guest.

6. do you play better in front of people or when alone? why? I play about the same when in front of a small relaxed group and I have practiced the piece thoroughly. If I think people are passing through or in a hurry, I play a new piece like crap.

7. if you play on your piano then play on a piano thats out of tune do you find it hard to play on and mess up alot? I don't play well on an out of tune piano, because it makes me not want to play and put effort into it.

8. are you mentally lazy? I used to be, but I do crossword and sudoku puzzles like there's no tomorrow. I also take online classes, which I could do without. I am constantly trying to enhance my brain endurance and I find that the piano helps a lot. I do this in an attempt to delay senility in my older age.

9. you can play a piece well but then you have to repeat it with the second ending---do you play it better the first time or second time around? why?
I'm not sure about this one, but I tend to get ticked off if I play well and screw up the second ending.

1) Yes

2) Play better, because I'm more conscious about playing with perfection and also I know that if I make a mistake I can always re-record.

2a) No

3) No difference

4)N/A

5) Occasionally

6) I play better alone because i'm not thinking about "oh my gosh..what if I make a mistake!"

7) Haven't had that happen to me

8) Hmmmm.....I guess only if I had a hard day at work.

9) I would say I play better the first time around because no bad habits had formed yet.

1. do you record yourself playing?
Yes, often

2. do you find you play better or worse when you are recording? why?
If I'm recording on an acoustic and the tape just runs I usually forget I'm recording. On my digital however it's so easy to stop and start recording I tend to never forget it's on.
2a. if you are used to recording and dont record yourself playing do you find your playing gets sloppy?
Actually I find that a few days break from recording is a good thing for me sometimes.

3. when playing on someone elses piano do you play better or worse?
My teacher has a grand which I find quite different and takes a little while to adjust but I play equally as bad on all.....

4. if you have a teacher do you find it easy or hard to play at lessons in front of him/her? why?
Harder but if we start out with a very new piece or an exercise where I'm not quite so hard on myself, I tend to relax more and the lessons usually goes better. It's when I begin with a piece that is "finished" that I'm harder on myself and get nervous trying not to screw up.
5. do you play in front of people?
Not very often so I'm still way too nervous

6. do you play better in front of people or when alone? why?
Always play better alone
7. if you play on your piano then play on a piano thats out of tune do you find it hard to play on and mess up alot?
Havn't noticed much difference
8. are you mentally lazy??
Hmmmm....don't think so....

9. you can play a piece well but then you have to repeat it with the second ending---do you play it better the first time or second time around? why?
Second time but don't know why.....

1. Yes

2. Worse. I am paying too much attention to an error free recording and not the music.

2a. No. At some point, I record every piece to hear what it sounds like.

3. Way worse.

4. Hard. As I play, I make all these mental notes of the things I want to discuss and work on.

5. Yes

6. Alone. With an audience, I start to think about them.

7. Yes. If it is too far out of tune, I wonder if I am on the right keys edited:

8. No

9. Worse, I pay less attention on the second time through.

9) Hmm, I guess it depends, but often it may get a bit worse, because I think I start to anticipate the end or worry about making sure I skip to the 2nd ending or... And then I am not concentrating on playing anymore.

hi funburger, in answer to most of your questions which are whether or not u play well when other people are around lol i think the answer to that question is unless your very much an up yourself confident person your always going to find it hard to concentrate when others are around, i reckon when your playing in front of people your playing more from habit which most people can probably say is very much true

1. yes
2. worse, cause I know that the recorder device is on and I am worried about making mistakes.
2a. Not used to recording..
3. I havent played on anyone elses piano since I was a kid..
4. When I had a teacher it was hard for me to play in front of my teacher. Its hard to play in front of anyone cause I am shy and I get nervous as well .
5. only my children and last month for a home school graduation..
6. Alone, probably cause I am not so worried about making mistakes.
7. I find it harder to play on my yamaha cause you can tell when something is played wrong where as my out of tune piano I can sordof improvise to make it sound ok..
8. LOL! Perhaps maybe I am ..
9. I play better the second time, maybe cause I was able to refresh my memory with the sheet music or warm up...