Hello,

I can do scales with the LH going down the scale and RH going up...but find it hard to have both hands go up a scale (say C scale) at the same time.

Does this take time? How hard is it? I have only been playing a couple months...and do 1/2 hour this time a year at night.

I had the same problem getting both hands going together. Here's what is working for me:

First, make sure that you can do each hand independently fairly fast, and in several keys.

Second, work on the specific note transitions that give you trouble (crossing thumb under one hand while not on the other, and vice versa -- just repeat those note pairs several times until it feels right). That is, if doing the whole scale gives you problems, then just do a part of it until that gets better, then add notes.

Finally, try doing both hands real slow (slow enough to not make mistakes), several times right before going to bed. That will put the programming in your brain, which will then get "burned in" over night while you sleep (assuming you get a full nights restful sleep). Then try it again in the morning to see if it has improved.

I hope this advice is correct, as it seems to be working for me (from one beginner to another).

Hi

I've been learning to play since January 08. Looking through my teachers notes - it seems that it took me about four weeks to do 1 octave hands together - whilst practicing 2 octaves hands apart. I think I was probably putting in more than 30 minutes a day although quite how much was devoted to scales I can't remember. Don't worry it will seem hard at first but suddenly things will just fall into place.

One of the things that worked for me was identifying marker points between the 2 hands. For example, with C Major the 3's (fingers) on both hands are always together. Identify marker points between the 2 hands that work for you and hopefully that should help.

The good news is, that once you conquered C Major - All the other Major scales (bar F Major) follow the same fingering pattern with some sharps and flats thrown in!

Mark

That's funny, I mentioned this yesterday in another thread. It is much easier for me to play scales in contrary motion than in parallel motion. I think because in contrary motion the fingering is the same, starting with finger one and ending with five, then back to one. Of course in parellel motion you start with your thumb on right and pinky on left. To me it is harder because your bringing your thumb under on right hand and #3 over on left hand at different times, that messes me up sometimes although I'm starting to get it.

Weird thing is, my teacher who is an outstanding pianist and teacher, thinks this is funny because she PREFERS playing scales in parallel motion as opposed to contrary which is easier for us. Makes alot of sense huh? But you will get it, just takes practice, practice and practice. She told me I will be playing scales for many years, so get used to it.

If you start with both thumbs at Middle C (as the first and easiest example)and play in contrary motion (away from the center), you can follow the RH fingering (123)(x12345)to play the first octave of a major scale with both hands.

I think it helps the student see that the fingerings are not so hard to do afterall.

The RH C scale is based on the first 3 notes fingering (a group consisting of 3 white notes and 2 black notes) and a second group (consisting of 4 white notes and 3 black notes)which fits in the RH as the above mentioned fingering (123)(1234)(5 is used as the "brake to stop with, so to continue to add octaves is a repetition of the basic fingering for each group.

I hope you are understanding my point fully here, but isn't it hard sometimes to transfer info from here to your own hand and keyboard!

I'm giving this info to try to simplify your understanding of how scales work by showing the contrary motion instead of the parallel motion.

Left hand will be moving to the left, RH will me moving to the right, in my example.

Addendum: A check for verifying that you are playing scales accurately in parallel position, is that the 3 fingers of both hands will be playing at the same time.

Betty

Indeed, the OP plays scales in contrary motion *now*, and more easily than in parallel. So the question is, how to work on playing parallel.

I think derekp has a good advice on practising (slowly, for me) just the few notes where the thumb crosses over on one hand and not the other. For me this kind of paying attention and practising just the trouble spots really pays off - sometimes the trouble isn't what I originally thought and I can catch that by doing only short sections!

I also play short sections up to speed several times so that when I get to them in the whole piece they're comfortable. This would work with scales, too. And I practice a few notes before the hard part and a few after in order to have a good continuation.

And Prince Charles noted that in the C scale the third fingers always play together, as Betty reiterated in her post. I like Prince Charles calling them "markers" - I also use "markers" of various kinds when I'm playing in order to help rhythm or for memorizing.

It will come!

Cathy

Yes, Jotur, I agree he does the contrary scales now, but I was hoping to add something that might not have been noticed or discovered while he plays them.

Since that contrary motion is so relatively easy to do, many do it once and say, "OK, I'm done - it sounds so awful and I can do it", closing the door.

I was presenting it "graphically on the keyboard" without the graphic. Learning scales is all about fingering and passing thumbs under and 3's and 4's over thumbs, and adding the elevations of the 5 black notes. Emphasizing the black note choices, because they soon become part of the test of making sense of scales.

I was hoping to generate (pun) a light bulb coming on.

I love to teach the theory of music - and find the fingering and the rules of it fascinating - mathematical in relationships, scientific in tuning and acoustics, and absolutely fun and beneficial to master.

When I hear someone is stuck in something I wish I could help "lesson" their knowledge in this arena.

Each side of the brain has a different task in mastering scales - some uniformities, yes - but a whole lot of obstacles come up in the physical creation of it.

We don't need to practice endlessly, we need to practice having breakthroughs in thinking and understanding. Such is logic.

Betty

One other thing that seems to help me with scales is this:

Try playing each individual key in a purposeful/stacato way - don't ask me why, it just helps!

Mark