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#1125108 - 07/28/04 06:11 AM Duplex Scaling
JWP2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 29
Loc: North Jersey
I'm new to the Forum and this is my first post. I'm a middle age beginner and am currently playing on a digital piano. I am currently looking for a grand piano in the 6 foot range (190cm). I've really enjoyed reading the posts and opinions on different pianos in the Forum.

One question I have is about duplex scaling. Most of the pianos I've looked at have it, but some do not (e.g. AF190 which is single strung). If a piano is single strung does that mean it can't have duplex scaling?

Also, while I can hear that there is a difference in the sound of various pianos, I'm not sure what sound I like the best. Can one easily tell the difference in the sound of a piano with and without duplex scaling?

Since most piano manufacturers use it I presume that there must be some benefit, i.e. most people must find it more pleasing. If the duplex scaling does makes a piano sound "better" then why do some manufacturers choose not to use it?

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#1125109 - 07/28/04 06:27 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
byebye Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/03
Posts: 1426
JWP,

It is possible to have single-strung and duplex. The middle register of my Estonia 190 is single-strung and the upper portion of that is also duplex.

There were some extensive threads at this site about duplex scaling, with quite a few comments from Del Fandrich, piano designer.

According to those who follow these things, duplex scales are creeping into many European piano designs.

The August Foerster 190 is a fantastic piano without the duplex scale. The Estonia 190 is a very nice piano with the duplex scale. It doesn't matter much to me either way.

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#1125110 - 07/28/04 06:28 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
 Quote:
Originally posted by JWP2:
One question I have is about duplex scaling. Most of the pianos I've looked at have it, but some do not (e.g. AF190 which is single strung). If a piano is single strung does that mean it can't have duplex scaling?[/b]
Single strung pianos can have duplex scaling and many do.

 Quote:
Also, while I can hear that there is a difference in the sound of various pianos, I'm not sure what sound I like the best. Can one easily tell the difference in the sound of a piano with and without duplex scaling?[/b]
In general, duplex scaling makes little difference in the sound of a piano in the 6 ft. range. It is in the longer pianos that you begin to hear a difference.
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#1125111 - 07/28/04 06:33 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
Stevester Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/03
Posts: 2851
Loc: New Jersey
I am not hijacking your tread but I just want to make a comment. I see you are also from Zoo Jersey and you have looked at the AF so I am guessing you have met Fred Altenburg. Fred really is a nice guy and the AF certainly is a nice piano. Make sure you keep that piano on your short list of candidates. The AF has a nice easy action and a nice mellow tone. You are going to have to play a lot of piano to see what you really like. Visit every dealer you can and play every piano you can get your hands on.

Regards,
Steve
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#1125112 - 07/28/04 06:56 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
JWP2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 29
Loc: North Jersey
Yes, the AF190 is on my list, as is the Estonia.
However, I have yet to hear any piano I've played that sounds like the ones I listen to on my CD's. I suppose it is unreasonable to expect a 6 foot piano to sound as good as the concert grands they are playing on?

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#1125113 - 07/28/04 06:59 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
Christopher James Quinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 2299
 Quote:
Originally posted by JWP2:
Yes, the AF190 is on my list, as is the Estonia.
However, I have yet to hear any piano I've played that sounds like the ones I listen to on my CD's. I suppose it is unreasonable to expect a 6 foot piano to sound as good as the concert grands they are playing on? [/b]
~3 feet extra piano does account for something!

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#1125114 - 07/28/04 07:13 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
Stevester Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/03
Posts: 2851
Loc: New Jersey
Ha! - I have the same problem regarding finding a piano that sounds like my treasured Horowitz and Brendel Cds. All I have to do is buy a 9 foot S&S D.

Don't be discouraged, there are plenty of nice piano out there and it is fun finding what you will really like.

Have fun,
Steve
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#1125115 - 07/28/04 08:27 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5296
Loc: Olympia, Washington
 Quote:
Originally posted by JBryan:
 Quote:

Also, while I can hear that there is a difference in the sound of various pianos, I'm not sure what sound I like the best. Can one easily tell the difference in the sound of a piano with and without duplex scaling?[/b]

In general, duplex scaling makes little difference in the sound of a piano in the 6 ft. range. It is in the longer pianos that you begin to hear a difference. [/QB]
In general, this is true. However, on the rare occasions that one of these systems is set up "properly" (i.e., with the aliquot string length actually tuned to some specific harmonic of the fundamental) initial power — immediately after impact — will be very slightly greater. In all cases, whether the aliquot string segment is properly tuned or not, there will be a loss of sustain time as some string energy is absorbed into the plate and dissipated as heat.

Also, most complaints of string noises — buzzing, miscellaneous twangs, etc. — that show up over time in the two treble sections can be traced to the so-called tuned-duplex design. It saddens me to see this feature being adopted by piano builders who should really know better. About the best that can be said for its proliferation is that it is usually done incorrectly to such an extent that its negative performance aspects are somewhat reduced. It also gives no benefit other than in the marketing spiel.

Del
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#1125116 - 07/28/04 09:09 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
Dan M Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 770
Loc: California
Hi,
Regarding buying a piano that sounds like what you hear on a recording - I would discourage that. I've got some experience now with trying to record a piano, the mic and electronics chain is a quite different view into the musical experience from you listening, or playing the instrument.

It's similiar to photography. The camera sees things quite differently. I wouldn't buy a house based on trying to get something that matched a picture I liked, for instance.

With recordings, all sorts of things can change the sound from 'reality'. Tubes and richen it, bringing the mic closer in can give proximity effect which you'll never hear (even if you always stood right next to the piano anyhow!), and of course equalization. Personally I do minimal or no processing directly, but indirectly just capturing it in the first place has a profound effect on the sound.

Thirdly, the poor performer doesn't have the best seat in the house anyhow, which is what the recordist tries to capture \:\)
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#1125117 - 07/28/04 09:29 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21530
Loc: Oakland
 Quote:
In general, this is true. However, on the rare occasions that one of these systems is set up "properly" (i.e., with the aliquot string length actually tuned to some specific harmonic of the fundamental) initial power — immediately after impact — will be very slightly greater. In all cases, whether the aliquot string segment is properly tuned or not, there will be a loss of sustain time as some string energy is absorbed into the plate and dissipated as heat.
Doesn't string energy get absorbed if the string beyond the bridge is damped with stringing braid, or even if it is undamped? What is the difference?
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#1125118 - 07/28/04 10:46 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
nifra Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/16/01
Posts: 2
Loc: Salzburg
A few years ago, I tuned a Steinway D for Mr. Pollini in our hall, for a recording in the future. Mr. Pollini looked for the best microphones, the Deutsche Grammophon Comp. brought 42 different. It was two days hard work for him, not for me, to find the right sound.
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#1125119 - 07/28/04 11:32 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
BDB Online   content
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Registered: 06/07/03
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Loc: Oakland
And it probably didn't sound like it would to an audience member.
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#1125120 - 07/28/04 12:58 PM Re: Duplex Scaling
Calin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 418
Loc: Bucharest
 Quote:
Originally posted by Del:
 Quote:
Originally posted by JBryan:
 Quote:

Also, while I can hear that there is a difference in the sound of various pianos, I'm not sure what sound I like the best. Can one easily tell the difference in the sound of a piano with and without duplex scaling?[/b]

In general, duplex scaling makes little difference in the sound of a piano in the 6 ft. range. It is in the longer pianos that you begin to hear a difference. [/b]
In general, this is true. However, on the rare occasions that one of these systems is set up "properly" (i.e., with the aliquot string length actually tuned to some specific harmonic of the fundamental) initial power — immediately after impact — will be very slightly greater. In all cases, whether the aliquot string segment is properly tuned or not, there will be a loss of sustain time as some string energy is absorbed into the plate and dissipated as heat.


Del [/QB]
Hi Del,

Did you mean to say the aliquot segment causes a loss of sustain, and that a piano without the aliquot would have a longer sustain (or maybe I misunderstood things)?
Could you please explain why this would happen?

Calin
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The Bechstein piano discussion group: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/bechstein/
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#1125121 - 07/28/04 02:10 PM Re: Duplex Scaling
Jens Schlosser Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 262
Loc: Leipzig, Germany
 Quote:
Originally posted by Dan M:
Hi,
Regarding buying a piano that sounds like what you hear on a recording - I would discourage that. I've got some experience now with trying to record a piano, the mic and electronics chain is a quite different view into the musical experience from you listening, or playing the instrument.

[/b]
Very good post. I'd like to second Dan's opinion and I'd like to add that when making a piano recording the room also has a very big influence. When pianos are recorded at least for classical recordings usually only concert halls or equally big halls are used. The microphone setup is sometimes up to 12 (or maybe even more) microphones.

I'd like to compare this procedure of recording a piano with sound-design. You take the aspects in sound that you like and amplify them (by positioning mics closer for instance) and you try to eliminate aspects which you dislike, reverb for instance, or certain frequencies that are amplified too much by the room.

The resulting sound is something artificial, it doesn't really represent the piano it was recorded on, although there are pianos which make the job easier and also some wich make it very (!) difficult.

Grand pianos in stores are very often displayed with the lid open. If you close the lid, this alone makes a big difference in sound.

Personally I think the effects of the duplex system are overrated. Probably a good voicing and regulation can do more to the sound.

There are some excellent pianos with duplex and some excellent ones without a duplex. I'd be glad to be able to afford an AF 190 and I surely wouldn't miss any duplexes at all. \:\)

Best regards,
Jens

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#1125122 - 07/28/04 09:31 PM Re: Duplex Scaling
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5296
Loc: Olympia, Washington
 Quote:
Originally posted by BDB:
 Quote:
In general, this is true. However, on the rare occasions that one of these systems is set up "properly" (i.e., with the aliquot string length actually tuned to some specific harmonic of the fundamental) initial power — immediately after impact — will be very slightly greater. In all cases, whether the aliquot string segment is properly tuned or not, there will be a loss of sustain time as some string energy is absorbed into the plate and dissipated as heat.
Doesn't string energy get absorbed if the string beyond the bridge is damped with stringing braid, or even if it is undamped? What is the difference? [/b]
There are two places piano builders attempt these tuned duplexes, behind the bridge and in front of the V-bar.

As long as they are long enough to prevent binding the bridge the rear tuned duplexes are a wash. They neither help nor hurt. Unless, of course, the builder has gotten them almost right, but not quite in which case they can set up some nicely dissonant or discordant zingers. But if they are as mis-tuned as they commonly are they don’t seem to cause much trouble.

It is the front tuned duplex that is the most problematic. To work as supposedly intended the string deflection angle across the V-bar must be rather shallow and the string segment length must be rather long — a recipe for inefficient string termination and an invitation for a variety of string noises.

Del
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

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#1125123 - 07/28/04 09:36 PM Re: Duplex Scaling
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5296
Loc: Olympia, Washington
 Quote:
Originally posted by Calin:


Del [/b]
Hi Del,

Did you mean to say the aliquot segment causes a loss of sustain, and that a piano without the aliquot would have a longer sustain (or maybe I misunderstood things)?
Could you please explain why this would happen?

Calin [/QB][/QUOTE]


In the case of the front "tuned" duplex, yes. Much of the vibrating energy that bleeds across the V-bar to the duplex string segment is lost to the plate in the form of heat. (Remember, gray iron is particularly good at absorbing vibrating and dissipating vibrating energy. That is what is meant when it is said to possess “good” damping properties.) It is better to provide an efficient string termination and keep as much energy as possible in the speaking portion of the string.

Del
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#1125124 - 07/29/04 12:41 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
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But is this really any worse than the typical front termination which is about the same, except that the string segment is not tuned and is usually damped by felt? How significant would you consider the difference in sound to be? I have to admit that I usually don't hear much of a difference between a front duplex that is undamped and one that is undamped, especially once the piano has been tuned properly.

I suppose Helmholz thought that the duplex scale would allow the high-frequency vibrations to see-saw past the v-bar and be reflected back, changing the impedence for those frequencies in order to keep them from being absorbed by the plate and the stiffness of the piano wire.
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#1125125 - 07/29/04 02:24 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
Calin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 418
Loc: Bucharest
 Quote:
Originally posted by Del:


In the case of the front "tuned" duplex, yes. Much of the vibrating energy that bleeds across the V-bar to the duplex string segment is lost to the plate in the form of heat. (Remember, gray iron is particularly good at absorbing vibrating and dissipating vibrating energy. That is what is meant when it is said to possess “good” damping properties.) It is better to provide an efficient string termination and keep as much energy as possible in the speaking portion of the string.

Del [/QB]
Oh, I thought you were talking about the back duplex (at the bridge).
What I never managed to understand, is why many piano makers that used front duplexes in the capo area, don't continue with that in the agraffe section.
The presence of the second termination (after the capo bar or the agraffe) gives a certain sound, and when switching to an agraffe section where the strings go directly on pieces of felt as they leave the agraffe give another sound (somewhat less rich in partials).
This is a good recipe for making a noticeable transition from the duplex section to the one without.
What do you think?

Calin
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The Bechstein piano discussion group: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/bechstein/
The Schweighofer piano site: http://schweighofer.tripod.com

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#1125126 - 07/29/04 07:44 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5296
Loc: Olympia, Washington
 Quote:
Originally posted by BDB:

I suppose Helmholz thought that the duplex scale would allow the high-frequency vibrations to see-saw past the v-bar and be reflected back, changing the impedence for those frequencies in order to keep them from being absorbed by the plate and the stiffness of the piano wire.
[/b]
It is not fair to blame Helmholtz for this rather dubious feature. He was neither a piano designer nor a piano builder. He is said to have exchanged a letter or two with Steinway but I know of no evidence indicating he had anything at all to do with the development of any tuned duplex stringing scheme.

Del
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#1125127 - 07/29/04 08:34 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5296
Loc: Olympia, Washington
 Quote:
Originally posted by Calin:
[QUOTE]

What I never managed to understand, is why many piano makers that used front duplexes in the capo area, don't continue with that in the agraffe section.

The presence of the second termination (after the capo bar or the agraffe) gives a certain sound, and when switching to an agraffe section where the strings go directly on pieces of felt as they leave the agraffe give another sound (somewhat less rich in partials).

This is a good recipe for making a noticeable transition from the duplex section to the one without.

What do you think?

Calin [/b]
As best as I can determine the capo tastro bar was introduced to alleviate the problem of hammer clearance in the upper treble as the piano’s compass expanded. As pianomakers approached C-88 it became increasingly difficult to reach an acceptable hammer strike point with agraffes — the hammers kept hitting the plate overhang. The conventional agraffe must be partially ground away to allow the hammer access to the strings at the appropriate hammer strikepoint. The overhanging agraffe (more popular in Europe than in the U.S.) is a partial solution but forces wider than desired action center spacing.

The capo tastro bar/V-bar combination solved the hammer clearance problem but introduced others. One of them being efficient string termination. Early pianomakers didn’t seem to worry about this overly much — but their hammers were built and voiced much differently than the granite hammers we have become accustomed to today. Their voice was much less strident than what we have become used to today. Lighter, softer and more resilient hammers do not excite the high partials nearly as much as today’s more dense and harder hammers. Energy bleed across even a poorly designed capo tastro bar system was not as much of a problem as it has become today.

To work as its promoters claim, the duplex string segment must be precisely tuned. (Whether it is to be tuned to ring exactly to some harmonic of the speaking string or some precise amount off of that harmonic is another issue.) Achieving this precise tuning is, in the real world, not physically possible. They are, therefore, never set up and tuned as advertised. As I’ve said before and elsewhere, the net result is that the tuned-duplex string termination system is responsible for most of the string buzzes and twangs that end up annoying the pianist.

It is interesting to note that, while it appears that Steinway introduced what we now call the front tuned-duplex string termination design, he never bothered to patent it. It doesn’t seem to have become a sales feature until much later.

Yes, with a string geometry through the capo tastro bar section that allows the duplex string segment to easily vibrate there is a tonal transition at the break between the agraffe section and the capo tastro bar section. This tonal transition is not apparent if the capo tastro bar section is designed with a more efficient string termination geometry. (Without going into all of the gory details this is an inter-related function of the string deflection angle and the length of the duplex string segment: the shallower the string deflection angle is the shorter the string segment must be for efficient termination.)

Now, having said all this, if someone appreciates the sounds generated by the tuned-duplex string termination and is willing to put up with the string noise problems that will inevitably develop over time, so be it. In the end analysis it is the sound and overall performance of the individual instrument that counts. I have long been an advocate of ignoring the sales features and concentrating on the performance. As someone who constantly works to understand how the piano works and to raise their performance level all of these design features are extremely important. To the pianist they are mostly just confusing. To say that “brand A is better than brand B because it has this design feature and Brand C is just as good as Brand A because it has identical design features.” does little to enlighten and much to confuse. (Of course, that may well be the intention.) Tell the salesman to please excuse himself and play the piano. And talk to a technician who is both able to make the piano sound the way you want it to sound — and keep it sounding that way.

Del
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
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Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#1125128 - 07/29/04 08:46 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21530
Loc: Oakland
 Quote:
In general, this is true. However, on the rare occasions that one of these systems is set up "properly" (i.e., with the aliquot string length actually tuned to some specific harmonic of the fundamental) initial power — immediately after impact — will be very slightly greater. In all cases, whether the aliquot string segment is properly tuned or not, there will be a loss of sustain time as some string energy is absorbed into the plate and dissipated as heat.[/b]
I am curious about the statement in bold. How significant is this loss of sustain time, what are you comparing it to, and what method of termination is better?
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#1125129 - 07/30/04 07:48 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5296
Loc: Olympia, Washington
 Quote:
Originally posted by BDB:
But is this really any worse than the typical front termination which is about the same, except that the string segment is not tuned and is usually damped by felt? How significant would you consider the difference in sound to be? I have to admit that I usually don't hear much of a difference between a front duplex that is undamped and one that is undamped, especially once the piano has been tuned properly.

I suppose Helmholz thought that the duplex scale would allow the high-frequency vibrations to see-saw past the v-bar and be reflected back, changing the impedence for those frequencies in order to keep them from being absorbed by the plate and the stiffness of the piano wire. [/b]
When the string geometry is properly established it is not necessary to have any damping felt at all between the V-bar and the counterbearing bar. Energy leakage past the V-bar will be nominal.

As I said, I have yet to see any evidence that Helmholtz was involved in any way with the development of this feature.

Del
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#1125130 - 07/30/04 08:15 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5296
Loc: Olympia, Washington
 Quote:
Originally posted by BDB:
 Quote:
In general, this is true. However, on the rare occasions that one of these systems is set up "properly" (i.e., with the aliquot string length actually tuned to some specific harmonic of the fundamental) initial power — immediately after impact — will be very slightly greater. In all cases, whether the aliquot string segment is properly tuned or not, there will be a loss of sustain time as some string energy is absorbed into the plate and dissipated as heat.[/b]
I am curious about the statement in bold. How significant is this loss of sustain time, what are you comparing it to, and what method of termination is better? [/b]
It can be significant. The string geometry used by Steinway (and others) through the capo tastro bar sections has changed over the decades though the claims have not. Some versions have been “tunable” (at least crudely so) others have not. All of them have depended on rather loose plate cross-section profiles. Further, a critical examination of the geometry of some pianos now claiming to incorporate this feature will show that their string termination is actually quite good and any resemblance between the reality and the marketing claims is strictly visual. The differences in string deflection angles and duplex string segment length are not great — it’s easy to cheat.

What I am comparing sustain times to are actual examples in which piano owners have complained about obnoxious string noises and/or dissonant harmonics ringing loudly from the aliquot string segments between the V-bar and the counterbearing bar. By modifying the counterbearing bar to both shorten the length of the duplex string segment and increase the string deflection angle both the offensive noises and whistles are reduced (or eliminated) and sustain time is measurably improved.

“Better” is an interesting word. Better than what? Those using the so-called “tuned” duplex system, of course, will say that their system is better. They tend to dismiss any complaints related to the loose string termination by explaining how all this extra noise adds to the color and liveliness of the piano sound experience. I would be more impressed by this argument if ever there was a plate actually set up to properly incorporate what they claim to be after. Alas, I’m not sure this is actually possible in the real world — no tuned duplex system I have yet seen has been able to survive the first tuning. Others, myself included, prefer the longer sustain time and brilliant clarity of a more efficient string termination system.

Del
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#1125131 - 07/30/04 09:08 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
BDB Online   content
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Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21530
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I'm mostly interested in the statement that sustain time is measurably improved. If a piano has a sustain time of 15 seconds (whatever that means), can it be changed to have a sustain time of say, 20 seconds, measured the same way, for a 33% improvement?

If sustain time could be made variable, it would be an interesting use for a fourth pedal. There are lots of time when sustain is too long, but you wouldn't want the quick damping of releasing the key or damper pedal.
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#1125132 - 07/30/04 09:17 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5296
Loc: Olympia, Washington
 Quote:
Originally posted by BDB:
I'm mostly interested in the statement that sustain time is measurably improved. If a piano has a sustain time of 15 seconds (whatever that means), can it be changed to have a sustain time of say, 20 seconds, measured the same way, for a 33% improvement?

If sustain time could be made variable, it would be an interesting use for a fourth pedal. There are lots of time when sustain is too long, but you wouldn't want the quick damping of releasing the key or damper pedal. [/b]
The difference can be significant. Though it would probably be more like an increase from 7 or 8 seconds to 9 or 10 seconds. More obvious is the rate of decay. The tone is slightly less percussive and it drops off less abruptly.

Your pedal idea is interesting, if impractical. Tuning would be a rather significant problem.

Del
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#1125133 - 07/30/04 09:28 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
BDB Online   content
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Registered: 06/07/03
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I thought about perhaps damping the soundboard.
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#1125134 - 07/30/04 09:32 AM Re: Duplex Scaling
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5296
Loc: Olympia, Washington
 Quote:
Originally posted by BDB:
I thought about perhaps damping the soundboard. [/b]
I vaguely recall looking through a patent describing just that. I’ve no idea whether or not the thing was ever built.

Del
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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