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#1128536 - 04/09/05 09:32 PM Re: Reading Chord Progressions
gregjazz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/05
Posts: 316
Loc: CA
I've only seen it as Cadd9. Are you certain you can't write it as Csus2? Not C7sus2, but just Csus2?

Check out this website: http://www.torvund.net/guitar/Theory/11-2-The_sus4_chord.asp

It seems to make a distinction between a sus2 and a sus4. Now I'm really curious. \:\)

Just trying to get everything straight.
_________________________
Greg Schlaepfer
Orange Tree Samples
http://www.orangetreesamples.com

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#1128537 - 04/09/05 09:48 PM Re: Reading Chord Progressions
SteveY Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 1820
Loc: NJ
Greg, I'm saying that Csus2 is a common way of writing C2(no3) or Cadd9(no3).
And yes -- there's a distinction between sus4 and sus2. Incidentally, when you see a "sus" chord, such as: Csus, the implication is that it's really a Csus4. In other words, you don't have to write the "4".
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#1128538 - 04/10/05 01:37 PM Re: Reading Chord Progressions
gregjazz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/05
Posts: 316
Loc: CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteveY:
Greg, I'm saying that Csus2 is a common way of writing C2(no3) or Cadd9(no3).
And yes -- there's a distinction between sus4 and sus2. Incidentally, when you see a "sus" chord, such as: Csus, the implication is that it's really a Csus4. In other words, you don't have to write the "4". [/b]
Okay, thanks for the confirmation.

My favorite sus sound is a sus (add 3), with the 3rd as the top note.
_________________________
Greg Schlaepfer
Orange Tree Samples
http://www.orangetreesamples.com

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#1128539 - 04/21/05 11:55 AM Re: Reading Chord Progressions
Rob Mullins Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/10/04
Posts: 318
Loc: LA CA
Dolce,
Get my book "Jazz Piano Voicings" published by Hal Leonard Corp. It will answer your questions and many others you haven't thought of yet.
SteveY-great comments and information in this thread-you rock!
_________________________
Rob Mullins
www.planetmullins.com
28th album on sale now.

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#1128540 - 04/21/05 08:13 PM Re: Reading Chord Progressions
SteveY Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 1820
Loc: NJ
 Quote:
SteveY-great comments and information in this thread-you rock!
Actually, Rob, I've seen you play (back in the Cafe Lido days), and I must correct you -- It's YOU who rocks!!!
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PianoWorld disclaimer: musician, producer, arranger, author, clinician, consultant, PS2 aficionado, secret agent...

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#1128541 - 04/21/05 09:48 PM Re: Reading Chord Progressions
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1595
Loc: NY
1) How do you play 9th, 11th, and 13th chords (i.e. C9, C11, C13)? What do they mean?

I would highly recommend getting this book by Ross Carnegie.. He's really an awesome teacher and musician. \:\)

www.rosscarnegie.com

The Ross Carnegie Teaching Method Book 1;
An Introduction To Modern Harmony that teaches his famous signature runs and preludes along with his personal, stylized approach to teaching music theory.

What is harmony?
1 The simultaneous notes in a chord
2 The study of the structure, progression, and relation of chords

*What is modern harmony?

The advanced level of chord study where the use of more complex chords and chord progression (i.e.: runs, etc.) are displayed.

Example: Modern Special Chord Voicing = Maj 7th, 9th 11th Minor 11 and 13th

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#1128542 - 04/22/05 12:45 AM Re: Reading Chord Progressions
Ronel Augustyn Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 527
Loc: Bloemfontein,SA
I also have a question regarding 'susses' and their notation. I'm confused: isn't there a difference between Csus2 and Cadd9. The way I read it, Csus2 is C chord with a D, but with Cadd9, musn't you play the seventh aswell, because it's on your way to nine? Then you must be playing C,E,G,B,D?

Please correct me...
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lallie

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#1128543 - 04/22/05 06:58 AM Re: Reading Chord Progressions
SteveY Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 1820
Loc: NJ
 Quote:
I also have a question regarding 'susses' and their notation. I'm confused: isn't there a difference between Csus2 and Cadd9. The way I read it, Csus2 is C chord with a D, but with Cadd9, musn't you play the seventh aswell, because it's on your way to nine? Then you must be playing C,E,G,B,D?
Good question. The "add9" tells us that the chord is a triad with an added 9th -- no 7th. Normally, when you see a "9" on a chord, it implies all the extensions below (including the 7th). For example, a C9 would be C, E, G, Bb, D.
The same is true for 11 & 13 chords. A Dmi13, for example, would be:
D, F, A, C, E, G, B.
The prefix in front of the number (maj., mi, etc.) tells us what the 7th of the chord is, and gives us a clue as to how the chord functions in the key. For example:
G9 = dominant chord (minor 7)
Gma9 = major I or IV chord (major 7)
Gmi9 = minor II or VI chord (minor 7)
Gadd9 = major I or IV, no 7th.

So to answer your original question:
Csus2 = C, D, G (the 3, or E, is suspended downward)
Cadd9 = C, D, E, G

hope that helps.
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PianoWorld disclaimer: musician, producer, arranger, author, clinician, consultant, PS2 aficionado, secret agent...

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#1128544 - 04/22/05 07:30 AM Re: Reading Chord Progressions
RKVS1 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 3192
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
---------
"So to answer your original question:
Csus2 = C, D, G (the 3, or E, is suspended downward)
Cadd9 = C, D, E, G

hope that helps. "
--------

"suspended downward" ?

ok, I exagerate my confusion a little, but my understanding or definition of suspensions would be the "suspended" part was the next scale step up, which (quite often) acts as a leading tone BACK to the "unsuspended" note that it would be based on.

So for me, I'd think a Csus2 would be D E G (which DOES look more like part of a G7 chord, so that's wierd ) BUT it quite often drops the D back to the C in the next chord to become the standard C triad again.

Just to restate my understanding, a "sus" indicates a SUBSTITUTION of the next higher note in place of the "normal" triad note. An "add" just tacks it on IN ADDITION TO the original triad notes.

(Not trying to sound pedantic here.) \:\)

Bob

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#1128545 - 04/22/05 07:54 AM Re: Reading Chord Progressions
SteveY Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 1820
Loc: NJ
Bob,
You're exactly right -- a sus chord SHOULD be the next note UP instead of DOWN. A "sus2 chord", then, is not correct terminology. Personally, I don't write it that way, but I see it all the time -- even from very well-respected and well-trained arrangers.

A Csus2 would be C, D, G.
I would normall write this as C2(no3).

A suspended chord indicates how the altered note resolves (downward). "RE" (the "2" or "9th") doesn't naturally resolve up to "ME", which is why the terminology is flawed. I used to be more of a "purist" on this when I was younger, but I got tired of fighting the battle. Now I just go with the flow...
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#1128546 - 04/22/05 07:58 AM Re: Reading Chord Progressions
SteveY Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 1820
Loc: NJ
While I'm in "purist mode", I should also point out that technically, a "2 chord" is incorrect as well. Chords are based on thirds. As a result, there's really no such thing as a 2 chord.

C2 would be better written as: Cadd9

Csus2 would be better written as: Cadd9(no3)

Of course, that takes a lot more space on a chart, hence the reason for the abbreviated chord names. True confession: I write "2 chords" all the time!!!
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PianoWorld disclaimer: musician, producer, arranger, author, clinician, consultant, PS2 aficionado, secret agent...

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#1128547 - 04/22/05 06:47 PM Re: Reading Chord Progressions
Rob Mullins Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/10/04
Posts: 318
Loc: LA CA
Hi,
Hey Steve, thanks for the props, but I must disagree on what you said "There's really no such thing as a 2 chord." Guitar players are responsible for that one and they use it all the time in pop tunes, and I have been seeing it on charts for years. A lot of guitar chords are missing notes we can easily add in on the piano because we have more than the six strings available that are on a guitar. Hence, writing a C2 chord as a Cadd9 wouldn't work in most pop situations where the guitar player is leaving out the 3rd automatically.
_________________________
Rob Mullins
www.planetmullins.com
28th album on sale now.

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#1128548 - 04/22/05 07:35 PM Re: Reading Chord Progressions
SteveY Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 1820
Loc: NJ
Actually, I don't think we disagree. I'm saying that chords are based on 3rds. Therefore it's not technically accurate to call something a "2 chord". That said, like you, I read and write 2 chords every day.
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