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#1128747 - 12/12/08 06:26 PM Why jazz?
PianoPlayerMan1994 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 84
So really why? Jazz has always seemed to me quite vulgar and even impotent in comparision to real classical music. I am wondering what is it that drives people to keep playing it. I understand there is heavy aspect of improv- but what I dont understand is why restrict yourself to the general schematics of jazz. I think there are plenty of wonderful jazz musicians(thelonius, tatum, etc..) but I can't understand how they never broke out of their jazz shells. In my opinion jazz is a cancerous blemish on the body of classical piano, though I'd be interested in hearing others idea(especially if you actually play jazz in a somewhat competant manner).

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Piano & Music Accessories
#1128748 - 12/12/08 06:32 PM Re: Why jazz?
ll Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 1101
Ah! Elitism at it's penultimate finest \:\)
_________________________
II. As in, second best.
Only lowercase. So not even that.
I teach piano and violin.
BM, Violin & Percussion Performance 2009, Piano Pedagogy 2011.

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#1128749 - 12/12/08 06:39 PM Re: Why jazz?
quiescen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 215
Loc: San Diego
Hi Pianoplayerman,

Perhaps I can put this whole issue into perspective by comparing what happens in the music world with the art world.

For example, suppose I'm a watercolorist. I love watercolor and have always enjoyed paniting in this style. Now, along comes an oil painter and says, "I can't understant what anyone sees in watercolor painting. It's not really art."

Do you see how inane this comparison is? The real reason many classical pianists fall into this comparison/put down trap is that they feel threatened by something that isn't "sophisticated." This isn't to say Jazz isn't sophisiticated. It is to say that judging an art form is a purely subjective and therefore relative act.

You like classical piano. Good for you. Now, can you allow for other forms of expression without feeling the need to defend your own idea of what "good" is?

The world is big enough to contain many forms and styles of music.

--------------------------------
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com
_________________________
Edward Weiss
Quiescence Music
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1128750 - 12/12/08 06:40 PM Re: Why jazz?
Theowne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 1099
Loc: Toronto, Canada
This reads like a very well-done parody. Good job, PPM!
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。

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#1128751 - 12/12/08 07:13 PM Re: Why jazz?
PianoPlayerMan1994 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 84
 Quote:
Originally posted by quiescen:
Hi Pianoplayerman,

Perhaps I can put this whole issue into perspective by comparing what happens in the music world with the art world.

For example, suppose I'm a watercolorist. I love watercolor and have always enjoyed paniting in this style. Now, along comes an oil painter and says, "I can't understant what anyone sees in watercolor painting. It's not really art."

Do you see how inane this comparison is? The real reason many classical pianists fall into this comparison/put down trap is that they feel threatened by something that isn't "sophisticated." This isn't to say Jazz isn't sophisiticated. It is to say that judging an art form is a purely subjective and therefore relative act.

You like classical piano. Good for you. Now, can you allow for other forms of expression without feeling the need to defend your own idea of what "good" is?

The world is big enough to contain many forms and styles of music.

--------------------------------
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com [/b]
Perhaps if the watercolorist restricted himself to only the few colors which he liked it, the analogy would be more accurite.

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#1128752 - 12/12/08 08:11 PM Re: Why jazz?
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2991
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
 Quote:

. In my opinion jazz is a cancerous blemish on the body of classical piano,
Are you for real?
This is awesome!

90 years ago you might have had an argument. Just like Rock&Roll coulss have been called a cancerous on jazz 60 years ago. And Rap on Rock 20 years ago.
But to think that today Jazz is hurting classical music... come on...

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#1128753 - 12/12/08 08:34 PM Re: Why jazz?
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2621
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:
So really why? Jazz has always seemed to me quite vulgar and even impotent in comparision to real classical music.
....
In my opinion jazz is a cancerous blemish on the body of classical piano[/b]
And you, sir, are an ignorant, cancerous blemish on this forum.
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1128754 - 12/12/08 08:42 PM Re: Why jazz?
Larisa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 498
Loc: Philadelphia
Did my old piano teacher get a PianoWorld account somehow? Sheesh.

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#1128755 - 12/12/08 09:06 PM Re: Why jazz?
PianoPlayerMan1994 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 84
Perhaps some of you misunderstand my words. What I am saying goes beyond mere opinion, I happen to be stating the obvious:

Jazz piano, is a restrictive artistic medium. An individual jazz piece cannot escape the grasp of the medium of jazz as a whole- thus all jazx pieces end up sounding like variatoins of one another(at least in terms of color and a general sense of tonality).

In addition I can't imagine you could find a single person on this board whom would contend that jazz, as a medium, uses the most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation. With this in mind, how, in goo consciousnse,could anyone tolerate such music(or rather loosely connected noise in the opinions of many).

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#1128756 - 12/12/08 09:17 PM Re: Why jazz?
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2621
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:
all jazx pieces end up sounding like variatoins of one another(at least in terms of color and a general sense of tonality).
...
With this in mind, how, in goo consciousnse,could anyone tolerate such music(or rather loosely connected noise in the opinions of many). [/b]
How, in good conscience, could anyone tolerate such atrocious spelling?
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1128757 - 12/12/08 09:34 PM Re: Why jazz?
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
This idiot is really going to town isn't he?


_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1128758 - 12/12/08 09:38 PM Re: Why jazz?
apianostudent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 128
Loc: CA
Quote..." An individual jazz piece cannot escape the grasp of the medium of jazz as a whole- thus all jazx pieces end up sounding like variatoins of one another(at least in terms of color and a general sense of tonality"

I'm betting that you don't have a thorough understanding of jazz music and/or it's history. Jazz, like classical music has changed through the decades and it's change is a VERY audible. Try googling it or find some videos in Youtube.

Additionally, your previous comment reminds me of people that state all classical music sounds alike. Surely you don't agree with that assessment.

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#1128759 - 12/12/08 09:45 PM Re: Why jazz?
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
 Quote:
Originally posted by quiescen:
Hi Pianoplayerman,

Perhaps I can put this whole issue into perspective by comparing what happens in the music world with the art world.

For example, suppose I'm a watercolorist. I love watercolor and have always enjoyed paniting in this style. Now, along comes an oil painter and says, "I can't understant what anyone sees in watercolor painting. It's not really art."

Do you see how inane this comparison is? The real reason many classical pianists fall into this comparison/put down trap is that they feel threatened by something that isn't "sophisticated." This isn't to say Jazz isn't sophisiticated. It is to say that judging an art form is a purely subjective and therefore relative act.

You like classical piano. Good for you. Now, can you allow for other forms of expression without feeling the need to defend your own idea of what "good" is?

The world is big enough to contain many forms and styles of music.

--------------------------------
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com [/b]
Surprise, Quiescen...I agree with you completely. Good explanation. \:\)
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

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#1128760 - 12/12/08 09:45 PM Re: Why jazz?
FlipSpiceland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Melbourne, FL
Successful troll is successful

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#1128761 - 12/12/08 10:14 PM Re: Why jazz?
mdsdurango Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 1755
Loc: Durango Colorado
 Quote:
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:
Perhaps some of you misunderstand my words. What I am saying goes beyond mere opinion, I happen to be stating the obvious:


In addition I can't imagine you could find a single person on this board whom would contend that jazz, as a medium, uses the most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation. [/b]
Well, I think he means contest, but hey - I say:
YEAH!!! Vulgar is good! Especially as a "human impulse".
No wonder I love jazz!
_________________________
WHAT???????
Yamaha S6, U5C, P120
http://michaelstith.com

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#1128762 - 12/12/08 10:39 PM Re: Why jazz?
JDelmore Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 634
I'm betting the "1994" in the OP's username is a birth year?
_________________________
PTG Associate Member

"There is always room above; there is only the ground below."....F.E. Morton (with props to Del F.)

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#1128763 - 12/12/08 10:42 PM Re: Why jazz?
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
That's everyone's best guess. Makes him a juvenile delinquent. :rolleyes:
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1128764 - 12/12/08 10:49 PM Re: Why jazz?
JDelmore Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 634
LOL!!

Characterizing jazz as 'cancerous' is about as ridiculous as dismissing classical as "that longhair music", one I've heard all my life (well, not so much recently...).

On a more constructive note, I would urge OP to visit the following link, and peruse especially the "Musician to Musician" and "Theory and Analysis" rooms.

http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/index.php
_________________________
PTG Associate Member

"There is always room above; there is only the ground below."....F.E. Morton (with props to Del F.)

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#1128765 - 12/12/08 10:53 PM Re: Why jazz?
Rob Mullins Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/10/04
Posts: 309
Loc: LA CA
1994...number of neuron firings per year maybe?
_________________________
Rob Mullins
www.planetmullins.com
Two openings in my private lessons program starting in Nov.

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#1128766 - 12/12/08 10:58 PM Re: Why jazz?
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:
In addition I can't imagine you could find a single person on this board whom would contend that jazz, as a medium, uses the most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation....[/b]
Confusing "contest" and "contend" is kind of hilarious, given that it creates a statement that's the opposite of what's intended. Good thing he's not a lawyer; cases have been lost—and malpractice suits won—over less.

It reminds me of a lawyer I once knew who confused "prescribe" and "proscribe." 'Nuff said. ;\)

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#1128767 - 12/12/08 10:59 PM Re: Why jazz?
Theowne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 1099
Loc: Toronto, Canada
 Quote:
An individual jazz piece cannot escape the grasp of the medium of jazz as a whole- thus all jazx pieces end up sounding like variatoins of one another(at least in terms of color and a general sense of tonality).
This is really quite silly. All genres are "restrictive" and have elements which sound similar. All Baroque music share similar elements of color and tonality. Are you going to critique Baroque music now?

 Quote:
In addition I can't imagine you could find a single person on this board whom would contend that jazz, as a medium, uses the most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation.
You'll have to explain this one for me. For example, here are two jazz pieces I came across today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V9VSxn2F9M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKpuR09s_mQ

I'd like your opinion on how these pieces use the "most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation".

I'm sorry to jump to conclusions, but your very fuzzy language seems to imply that you don't know anything about jazz, rather, you might have read something on the internet which sounded convincing and thus now take it as an opinion.

I would love to be proven wrong, though....
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。

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#1128768 - 12/12/08 11:09 PM Re: Why jazz?
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Would a troll in any other forum smell as bad?

I recommend that anyone check his posting history before casting their pearls before swine.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#1128769 - 12/12/08 11:09 PM Re: Why jazz?
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rob Mullins:
1994...number of neuron firings per year maybe? [/b]
NICE!
_________________________
Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.

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#1128770 - 12/12/08 11:09 PM Re: Why jazz?
PianoPlayerMan1994 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 84
 Quote:
Originally posted by sotto voce:
 Quote:
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:
In addition I can't imagine you could find a single person on this board whom would contend that jazz, as a medium, uses the most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation....[/b]
Confusing "contest" and "contend" is kind of hilarious, given that it creates a statement that's the opposite of what's intended. Good thing he's not a lawyer; cases have been lost—and malpractice suits won—over less.

It reminds me of a lawyer I once knew who confused "prescribe" and "proscribe." 'Nuff said. ;\)

Steven [/b]
my darling, you are quite mistaken. For the word contend has several different uses, here are just a few:

1)struggle to surmount
2)engage in a competition or campaign in order to win or achieve
3)assert something in a position in an argument

It should be evident that I was using the third usage. Feel free to verify what I have said.

Sotto, perhaps you should add a bit of deliberation and thoughtfulness to your posts so that you don't go making errors such as this in the future. I'm glad I could clear up your misunderstanding :3hearts:

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#1128771 - 12/12/08 11:12 PM Re: Why jazz?
PianoPlayerMan1994 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 84
Sotto, I just notocided in your post that your name is Steven. I believed you to be an elderly female from because of your earlier posts- so I obviously wouldn't have called your darling or used the heart emote if I had known your were a male(which I now assume you to be due to your signature)please let me know if im wrong as to your sex.

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#1128772 - 12/12/08 11:12 PM Re: Why jazz?
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Oh, damn. Now Steven is a darling. What next from this seemingly bottomless cesspool?
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1128773 - 12/12/08 11:14 PM Re: Why jazz?
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
 Quote:
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:
Sotto, I just notocided in your post that your name is Steven. I believed you to be an elderly female from because of your earlier posts- so I obviously wouldn't have called your darling or used the heart emote if I had known your were a male(which I now assume you to be due to your signature)please let me know if im wrong as to your sex. [/b]
I thought you hated old ladies ;\)
_________________________
Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.

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#1128774 - 12/12/08 11:15 PM Re: Why jazz?
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
I quote [not properly -- the quote feature doesn't work on closed threads]

"You really are acting like a horrible old lady. Perhaps their is an angry dissaffected old lady's forum that you can join that would allow you to denounce us all more effectively, and with like minded disaffected grumpy old women."

Also, "Sotto, I just notocided in your post..."

Notocided? Notocided????
_________________________
Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.

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#1128775 - 12/12/08 11:17 PM Re: Why jazz?
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
I hate to admit it, but this has become far more amusing than vexing.

But the target is so easy that it's practically unsportsmanlike to engage the person.

Don't you love that simultaneously high and mighty yet pathetic and thoroughly wrong defense of "contend"?

You can't make this stuff up.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#1128776 - 12/12/08 11:19 PM Re: Why jazz?
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
I'm always up for a good round of semantic jousting!
_________________________
Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.

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