This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
|
|
69853 Members
40 Forums
143412 Topics
2074440 Posts
Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
|
|
|
#1128747 - 12/12/08 06:26 PM
Why jazz?
|
Full Member
Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 84
|
So really why? Jazz has always seemed to me quite vulgar and even impotent in comparision to real classical music. I am wondering what is it that drives people to keep playing it. I understand there is heavy aspect of improv- but what I dont understand is why restrict yourself to the general schematics of jazz. I think there are plenty of wonderful jazz musicians(thelonius, tatum, etc..) but I can't understand how they never broke out of their jazz shells. In my opinion jazz is a cancerous blemish on the body of classical piano, though I'd be interested in hearing others idea(especially if you actually play jazz in a somewhat competant manner).
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128748 - 12/12/08 06:32 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 1101
|
Ah! Elitism at it's penultimate finest 
_________________________
II. As in, second best. Only lowercase. So not even that. I teach piano and violin. BM, Violin & Percussion Performance 2009, Piano Pedagogy 2011.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128749 - 12/12/08 06:39 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
Full Member
Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 215
Loc: San Diego
|
Hi Pianoplayerman, Perhaps I can put this whole issue into perspective by comparing what happens in the music world with the art world. For example, suppose I'm a watercolorist. I love watercolor and have always enjoyed paniting in this style. Now, along comes an oil painter and says, "I can't understant what anyone sees in watercolor painting. It's not really art." Do you see how inane this comparison is? The real reason many classical pianists fall into this comparison/put down trap is that they feel threatened by something that isn't "sophisticated." This isn't to say Jazz isn't sophisiticated. It is to say that judging an art form is a purely subjective and therefore relative act. You like classical piano. Good for you. Now, can you allow for other forms of expression without feeling the need to defend your own idea of what "good" is? The world is big enough to contain many forms and styles of music. -------------------------------- Play New Age Piano http://www.quiescencemusic.com
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128751 - 12/12/08 07:13 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
Full Member
Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 84
|
Originally posted by quiescen:  Hi Pianoplayerman, Perhaps I can put this whole issue into perspective by comparing what happens in the music world with the art world. For example, suppose I'm a watercolorist. I love watercolor and have always enjoyed paniting in this style. Now, along comes an oil painter and says, "I can't understant what anyone sees in watercolor painting. It's not really art." Do you see how inane this comparison is? The real reason many classical pianists fall into this comparison/put down trap is that they feel threatened by something that isn't "sophisticated." This isn't to say Jazz isn't sophisiticated. It is to say that judging an art form is a purely subjective and therefore relative act. You like classical piano. Good for you. Now, can you allow for other forms of expression without feeling the need to defend your own idea of what "good" is? The world is big enough to contain many forms and styles of music. -------------------------------- Play New Age Piano http://www.quiescencemusic.com [/b] Perhaps if the watercolorist restricted himself to only the few colors which he liked it, the analogy would be more accurite.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128752 - 12/12/08 08:11 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2706
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
|
. In my opinion jazz is a cancerous blemish on the body of classical piano,
Are you for real? This is awesome! 90 years ago you might have had an argument. Just like Rock&Roll coulss have been called a cancerous on jazz 60 years ago. And Rap on Rock 20 years ago. But to think that today Jazz is hurting classical music... come on...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128753 - 12/12/08 08:34 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2374
Loc: Sydney, Australia
|
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:  So really why? Jazz has always seemed to me quite vulgar and even impotent in comparision to real classical music. .... In my opinion jazz is a cancerous blemish on the body of classical piano[/b] And you, sir, are an ignorant, cancerous blemish on this forum.
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128755 - 12/12/08 09:06 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
Full Member
Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 84
|
Perhaps some of you misunderstand my words. What I am saying goes beyond mere opinion, I happen to be stating the obvious:
Jazz piano, is a restrictive artistic medium. An individual jazz piece cannot escape the grasp of the medium of jazz as a whole- thus all jazx pieces end up sounding like variatoins of one another(at least in terms of color and a general sense of tonality).
In addition I can't imagine you could find a single person on this board whom would contend that jazz, as a medium, uses the most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation. With this in mind, how, in goo consciousnse,could anyone tolerate such music(or rather loosely connected noise in the opinions of many).
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128756 - 12/12/08 09:17 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2374
Loc: Sydney, Australia
|
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:  all jazx pieces end up sounding like variatoins of one another(at least in terms of color and a general sense of tonality). ... With this in mind, how, in goo consciousnse,could anyone tolerate such music(or rather loosely connected noise in the opinions of many). [/b] How, in good conscience, could anyone tolerate such atrocious spelling?
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128759 - 12/12/08 09:45 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3012
|
Originally posted by quiescen:  Hi Pianoplayerman, Perhaps I can put this whole issue into perspective by comparing what happens in the music world with the art world. For example, suppose I'm a watercolorist. I love watercolor and have always enjoyed paniting in this style. Now, along comes an oil painter and says, "I can't understant what anyone sees in watercolor painting. It's not really art." Do you see how inane this comparison is? The real reason many classical pianists fall into this comparison/put down trap is that they feel threatened by something that isn't "sophisticated." This isn't to say Jazz isn't sophisiticated. It is to say that judging an art form is a purely subjective and therefore relative act. You like classical piano. Good for you. Now, can you allow for other forms of expression without feeling the need to defend your own idea of what "good" is? The world is big enough to contain many forms and styles of music. -------------------------------- Play New Age Piano http://www.quiescencemusic.com [/b] Surprise, Quiescen...I agree with you completely. Good explanation. 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128761 - 12/12/08 10:14 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 1755
Loc: Durango Colorado
|
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:  Perhaps some of you misunderstand my words. What I am saying goes beyond mere opinion, I happen to be stating the obvious: In addition I can't imagine you could find a single person on this board whom would contend that jazz, as a medium, uses the most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation. [/b] Well, I think he means contest, but hey - I say: YEAH!!! Vulgar is good! Especially as a "human impulse". No wonder I love jazz!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128762 - 12/12/08 10:39 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
500 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 634
|
I'm betting the "1994" in the OP's username is a birth year?
_________________________
PTG Associate Member
"There is always room above; there is only the ground below."....F.E. Morton (with props to Del F.)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128763 - 12/12/08 10:42 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
8000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8392
|
That's everyone's best guess. Makes him a juvenile delinquent. :rolleyes:
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128764 - 12/12/08 10:49 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
500 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 634
|
LOL!! Characterizing jazz as 'cancerous' is about as ridiculous as dismissing classical as "that longhair music", one I've heard all my life (well, not so much recently...). On a more constructive note, I would urge OP to visit the following link, and peruse especially the "Musician to Musician" and "Theory and Analysis" rooms. http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/index.php
_________________________
PTG Associate Member
"There is always room above; there is only the ground below."....F.E. Morton (with props to Del F.)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128766 - 12/12/08 10:58 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
6000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
|
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:  In addition I can't imagine you could find a single person on this board whom would contend that jazz, as a medium, uses the most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation....[/b] Confusing "contest" and "contend" is kind of hilarious, given that it creates a statement that's the opposite of what's intended. Good thing he's not a lawyer; cases have been lost—and malpractice suits won—over less. It reminds me of a lawyer I once knew who confused "prescribe" and "proscribe." 'Nuff said. Steven
_________________________
 "There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats." —Albert Schweitzer
Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46 Schumann: Toccata Op. 7 Fauré: Ballade Op. 19
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128767 - 12/12/08 10:59 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 1099
Loc: Toronto, Canada
|
An individual jazz piece cannot escape the grasp of the medium of jazz as a whole- thus all jazx pieces end up sounding like variatoins of one another(at least in terms of color and a general sense of tonality). This is really quite silly. All genres are "restrictive" and have elements which sound similar. All Baroque music share similar elements of color and tonality. Are you going to critique Baroque music now? In addition I can't imagine you could find a single person on this board whom would contend that jazz, as a medium, uses the most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation. You'll have to explain this one for me. For example, here are two jazz pieces I came across today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V9VSxn2F9M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKpuR09s_mQ I'd like your opinion on how these pieces use the "most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation". I'm sorry to jump to conclusions, but your very fuzzy language seems to imply that you don't know anything about jazz, rather, you might have read something on the internet which sounded convincing and thus now take it as an opinion. I would love to be proven wrong, though....
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128768 - 12/12/08 11:09 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
6000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
|
Would a troll in any other forum smell as bad?
I recommend that anyone check his posting history before casting their pearls before swine.
Steven
_________________________
 "There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats." —Albert Schweitzer
Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46 Schumann: Toccata Op. 7 Fauré: Ballade Op. 19
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128769 - 12/12/08 11:09 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
|
Originally posted by Rob Mullins:  1994...number of neuron firings per year maybe? [/b] NICE!
_________________________
Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128770 - 12/12/08 11:09 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
Full Member
Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 84
|
Originally posted by sotto voce: Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:  In addition I can't imagine you could find a single person on this board whom would contend that jazz, as a medium, uses the most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation....[/b] Confusing "contest" and "contend" is kind of hilarious, given that it creates a statement that's the opposite of what's intended. Good thing he's not a lawyer; cases have been lost—and malpractice suits won—over less. It reminds me of a lawyer I once knew who confused "prescribe" and "proscribe." 'Nuff said. Steven [/b] my darling, you are quite mistaken. For the word contend has several different uses, here are just a few: 1)struggle to surmount 2)engage in a competition or campaign in order to win or achieve 3)assert something in a position in an argument It should be evident that I was using the third usage. Feel free to verify what I have said. Sotto, perhaps you should add a bit of deliberation and thoughtfulness to your posts so that you don't go making errors such as this in the future. I'm glad I could clear up your misunderstanding :3hearts:
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128771 - 12/12/08 11:12 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
Full Member
Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 84
|
Sotto, I just notocided in your post that your name is Steven. I believed you to be an elderly female from because of your earlier posts- so I obviously wouldn't have called your darling or used the heart emote if I had known your were a male(which I now assume you to be due to your signature)please let me know if im wrong as to your sex.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128772 - 12/12/08 11:12 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
8000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8392
|
Oh, damn. Now Steven is a darling. What next from this seemingly bottomless cesspool?
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128773 - 12/12/08 11:14 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
|
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:  Sotto, I just notocided in your post that your name is Steven. I believed you to be an elderly female from because of your earlier posts- so I obviously wouldn't have called your darling or used the heart emote if I had known your were a male(which I now assume you to be due to your signature)please let me know if im wrong as to your sex. [/b] I thought you hated old ladies 
_________________________
Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128774 - 12/12/08 11:15 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
|
I quote [not properly -- the quote feature doesn't work on closed threads]
"You really are acting like a horrible old lady. Perhaps their is an angry dissaffected old lady's forum that you can join that would allow you to denounce us all more effectively, and with like minded disaffected grumpy old women."
Also, "Sotto, I just notocided in your post..."
Notocided? Notocided????
_________________________
Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128775 - 12/12/08 11:17 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
6000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
|
I hate to admit it, but this has become far more amusing than vexing.
But the target is so easy that it's practically unsportsmanlike to engage the person.
Don't you love that simultaneously high and mighty yet pathetic and thoroughly wrong defense of "contend"?
You can't make this stuff up.
Steven
_________________________
 "There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats." —Albert Schweitzer
Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46 Schumann: Toccata Op. 7 Fauré: Ballade Op. 19
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1128776 - 12/12/08 11:19 PM
Re: Why jazz?
|
1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
|
I'm always up for a good round of semantic jousting!
_________________________
Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|