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Joined: Aug 2005
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How much control (mentally) do you have of your fast runs? Lately I'm beginning to play 16th's (t=100) over different changes and I've discovered that half (or more) of what I'm playing is only explainable as diatonic upruns, downruns, figures, sequenses and so on (however it sounds a lot like jazz!). This non-definableness puts me in an aestethic dilemma: is this improvisation or coinsidence?
I'm sure you have noticed this phenomenon, please shere your thoughts.
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SHARE! I mean share not shere. I hate spelling errors.
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I've been doing a lot of spontaneous composition\improvisation in a classical style, but I think this will all apply to what you can do.
I'm not sure what you mean by your post. Yes, when you play a tonal scale you ARE playing diatonically. I do scale runs all the time, usually as an impressionistic effect (I just go up a few octaves and down a few octaves with the pedal down and return to my melody).
Oh I see, you are wondering if what you're doing is improvising. Well, yes and no. With runs and figures, there really is no discernible melody.
Try to create melodies. Melodies are more than figures and ornamentation, they have a shape and form, and can usually be broken down into just a few notes (a skeletal structure of the melody). Common shapes are the arch (create a melody going up and then going down), the inverted arch, upward motion, downward motion, and staying in one place (floating, if you will), or a combination of these. The most varied and expressive melodies are usually created with a variety of stepwise and skipping around.
Your target notes in the melody are the chord tones, the tones of the chord which you are either playing or implying with (usually) your left hand. So if you play a C major chord in your left hand, the strongest tones, and the ones your working towards, are C, E, and G (since you're playing that chord). The seventh of the scale can be used to add additional color and, when properly pedaled, a nice impressionistic effect.
Now, when you improvise a melody, you can either let it just sit as a lone motif and go onto other melodies, or you can take the same melody and create some variations with it. Both techniques should be mastered. I have yet to master either, because I really haven't been doing it for very long. You can create some gorgeous stuff if you just experiment and have a few tools at your disposal.
I recommend you look at the book "Idiot's Guide to Music Composition", there is a lot of information in there about how to create logical melodies, among many other things.
Also, if it's one thing I've learned from composition study, it's CONTRAST, CONTRAST, CONTRAST. It makes your compositions genuinely interesting and structured. The simplest way to do this is to break up the piece your improvising into an ABA form. So, if the A section, or the first section, is heavily pedaled in a minor key and is focused on chords and has a very grandiose feel, make the B section in a Major key (relative major, parallel major, or another major key of your choice just make sure it flows), and playful. You can achieve this by playing the A section in A minor, striking an E major chord which is the V chord of the A minor and shift your melodies and chords into the E major scale. Now, since this is the B section you want it to contrast with the grandiose minor key pedaled section and you have a lot of options available for you. You can do a lot of staccato notes, less chords, faster harmonic rhythm, and yet you still want it to be related to the original A section so shift into E minor if you will, and still keep a logical flow. You can transfer into the A section again by hitting an E dominant 7 chord which very strongly wants to resolve into A minor, so your back into A minor for your grandiose minor key finale.
Read as much as you can about theory, you will find it incredibly helpful. PM me if you need more assistance.
-Colin
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I find a lot useful in your post Colin. Thank you
Howewer my idea of the thread was to share each opinions of this to me undechiffreble.
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Originally posted by OrganGrinderSwing: How much control (mentally) do you have of your fast runs? Lately I'm beginning to play 16th's (t=100) over different changes and I've discovered that half (or more) of what I'm playing is only explainable as diatonic upruns, downruns, figures, sequenses and so on (however it sounds a lot like jazz!). This non-definableness puts me in an aestethic dilemma: is this improvisation or coinsidence?
I'm sure you have noticed this phenomenon, please shere your thoughts. If you were to strive towards hearing your lines, that is, playing them with your fingers because you hear them in your mind, your lines will be more improvised than coincidence. Playing scales and arpeggios over chord changes isn't improvisation. It's exercise. Of course, there will be a certain controlled amount of scales and arpeggios in the lines you actually hear, but their incidence and inclusion will be more intention if you're truly hearing everything you wish to improvise.
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Originally posted by OrganGrinderSwing: How much control (mentally) do you have of your fast runs? Lately I'm beginning to play 16th's (t=100) over different changes and I've discovered that half (or more) of what I'm playing is only explainable as diatonic upruns, downruns, figures, sequenses and so on (however it sounds a lot like jazz!). This non-definableness puts me in an aestethic dilemma: is this improvisation or coinsidence?
I'm sure you have noticed this phenomenon, please shere your thoughts. Another thing. All the theory knowledge in the world will not make you a brilliant composer or improvisor. If you wish to be either of these mentioned, you're going to have to spend 2 hours listening to music for every hour you spend at the keyboard improvising music or every hour spent writing music, because when the time comes to do either one well, there must be musical content in your mind for anything creative to come out through the hands. Unless the mind takes on a more active role than the hands, it won't be true improvisation or composition.
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Disciple,
That's one of the great things about getting to be an older musician--the music becomes part of you, seemingly with little effort on your part.
OrganGrinder,
I'm going to say things you won't like. I'll warn you here and now, so you can simply click me out of your consciousness if you like. Go ahead, I'll wait.
....
If you're still here, then listen.
Your body is trying to tell you something--are you listening?
The Jungians would say: "there are no accidents!" and 40 years ago, someone would say that your gaff was actually a "Freudian slip".
Do you know what I'm talking about?
Why do you think you spelled 'share' as 'shere' in this particular post?
Simply, your unconscious is tell you to slow down!
Keep speeding out of control and you'll crash.
I'm no longer speaking of typos, though the poignancy of your typo when asking this particular question is illuminating.
Music is not made by running scales--that is called running scales.
A teacher would tell you this:
In a solo, clunkers happen but they should be avoided. A clunker is playing an unintended note. You wanted a B, but got a C, or in musical thought, I wanted a major third, but I got the fourth.
But even worse than clunkers is playing notes that you don't know you're playing, because you're playing a mindless scale pattern. This is a bad habit that should never be indulged by a developing player, nor tolerated by a teacher.
Never; not even if it sounds good. Serendipity is not a jazz style, though a great many beginners believe this to be so. "Look Ma, I'm a jazz musician!"
Speed will come, like playing style, when your hands and mind work in partnership to create music.
If you must play fast, learn to play arpeggios quickly. Major and minor 6ths, diminished and lydian augmented arps, arps with ninths and flatted ninths--make them up; there's lots of choices.
And make it creative. Sometimes an exercise can be creative. Play rhythmically. Shoot for three or four octaves up and down, or up one way, down another. Also, there's nothing more impressive in a piano solo than a stretch of two handed lead lines so work them with both hands, too.
Accuracy and precision will take you wherever you want to go, but sloppy playing is a bad habit that will bar you way no matter how much talent you possess.
Even the greats have to learn this lesson the hard way--Arthur Rubenstein comes to mind. A wunderkind who never practiced, he relied on skill and didn't practice. As his repertoire grew, his mistakes multiplied and he developed a dilettante's reputation as his star fell. Recognizing his flaw, he worked very hard to gain accuracy and precision, which gave his talent the structure needed to blossom. Subsequently, he enjoyed a highly successful career for another 40 years, yet, today there are people who remember only a immature and irresponsible Rubenstein, a pianist who left out more notes than he played.
OK, enough "Lives of the Great Pianists".
Never play from rote. Scales are not improvisation. When you improvise, you rewrite a tune's melody.
But, you don't actually do so 'on the fly'. These melodies come from the back of your mind. Do you hear them when listening to someone else's improvisation? That's what you should try to play.
Musicians who play good solos are also good at translating what they hear into notes they play.
Practice doing this--playing by ear. Start with simple tunes. You can choose them from your childhood memories, pick jingles that you hear on the TV, but better yet, pick tunes that you actually want to solo to, like a good jazz standard.
Play the melody of the tune, by ear. Notice the intervals, their location, and try to understand why they are where they are. (Hint: It usually has something to do with the chord changes that lie beneath.)
In this way, you discern the function of chords within a tune. These are the only "patterns" you need to memorize.
So many beginners think that a solo is the act of filling space and time with scales and patterns (usually the pentatonic scale).
This is not music. Likewise, the mimicry of parrots is not language.
Improvisation in music can be both singing and dancing, where singing = interacting with melody, and dancing = interacting with rhythm.
Learn to make music, not noise. Learn to sing, and dance.
Have fun!
-- ipgrunt Amateur pianist, Son of a Pro
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Quote- Disciple
"Another thing. All the theory knowledge in the world will not make you a brilliant composer or improvisor. If you wish to be either of these mentioned, you're going to have to spend 2 hours listening to music for every hour you spend at the keyboard improvising music or every hour spent writing music ......"
That advice is paramount to developing your natural ability to compose and play impromptu jazz. The subconscious brain fuction must automatically recall the music stored there. I would say it's 'playing by ear'. Though many folk have differing opinions what constitutes 'Playing by ear'.
So try and memorise the style of improvisation you wish to develop by the above advices.
Alan
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