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#1133340 - 12/04/07 12:46 AM
Re: Jazz Piano?
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1314
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#1133341 - 12/04/07 06:46 PM
Re: Jazz Piano?
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Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 20
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Wondering if someone could help me with something, such as free online downloading of partitures...
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#1133342 - 12/05/07 02:53 PM
Re: Jazz Piano?
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4000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
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Despina, you may want to start a new thread re those "partitures" - which in American usage is "sheet music."
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#1133343 - 12/09/07 05:56 PM
Re: Jazz Piano?
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Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 116
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Thanks all.
Do you tend to listen to the full piece (for instance, the Herbie Hancock version) before attempting to play the piece?
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#1133344 - 12/09/07 08:59 PM
Re: Jazz Piano?
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1314
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No, it's not really necessary.
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#1133345 - 12/10/07 11:30 AM
Re: Jazz Piano?
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Full Member
Registered: 10/30/07
Posts: 290
Loc: Massachusetts
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Originally posted by rintincop:  No, it's not really necessary. [/b] I agree. When I was in the middle of my big learning phase, I noticed that on some pieces I might need just to hear a little bit, while on others I might want to grab everything I could off of it (say, for example, transcribing a solo, note for note). On most new material that I worked on, I put together what I called my "tune tapes". When working on "Autumn Leaves", for example, I made a tape of every recorded version I could find. I found my own interpretation might take a little bit from one recording, a little bit from another, especially if there was a particularly clever version (a good example -- J.J. Johnson had a really nice recording of Autumn Leaves where he paraphrased the melody without explicitly playing it). Online services where you can buy individual recordings (for example, iTunes Music Store) are a boon to this method. You can search for every version of a particular piece in their library, and sample a snippet of it. I still do this frequently.
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#1133346 - 12/17/07 01:24 PM
Re: Jazz Piano?
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Full Member
Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 116
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Okay, so this has been giving me lots of fun!! I even managed to put in a blues scale to Lyndyrd Skynyrd's Sweet Home Alabama haha!
Only problem I am having is what to do with the left hand... should I focus on just block chords?
The reason I ask, is because once I take away the backing track, my piano playing sounds rather empty and very amateurish...?
I know they are called "Easy To Learn Jazz Pieces" - but are they really that easy? To be able to put the melody in time, with all the off beat and improv into practice?
Thanks again for the great recomendation!!
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#1133347 - 12/17/07 03:46 PM
Re: Jazz Piano?
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1314
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#1133348 - 12/18/07 07:43 AM
Re: Jazz Piano?
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Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 116
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Rintincop, You made a post yesterday.... which has now been removed? Can I see your answer again lol.
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#1133349 - 01/02/08 03:26 AM
Re: Jazz Piano?
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 1094
Loc: England
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Amnesia
you say quote "I quite like playing along to stuff... and it helps me progress and improvise.
Yes you'er spot on with that view.
It gets your subconscious brain in gear and teaches you to play by ear correctly. That I believe is the best way to success in jazz playing. Pick a recording that just meets your ability or tests it rather. That is the way to improve. You cannot spend too much time on the piano.
Happy New Year all,
Alan (swingal)
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#1133350 - 01/02/08 07:15 AM
Re: Jazz Piano?
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Full Member
Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 288
Loc: NYC
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Originally posted by Bradley Sowash:  It's a very large subject to address in a forum but the most important thing is to learn your chords so you can think "harmonically." Then learn the basics of a lead sheet with your left hand playing block chords and your right hand on the melody. Then, (and here is where experience and education help) apply various styles, left hand patterns and such to personalize the sound. Start reading books that offer jazz instruction along with written arrangements. Many are one or the other so you have to look around. Also, listen to and emulate the masters - particularly those with a less complex style such as Count Basie, Bill Evans, or George Shearing rather than the million notes per second players like Bud Powell or Oscar Peterson. The latter make nice music but it's intimidating for students. [/b] IMO the more complex aggregates become, the more it becomes apparent that the individually moving voices within the progressing aggregates are significantly more important than a harmonically conceptual progression of chords. This is very evident in the fugues of Bach and the orchestral music of Bartok. When I play a progression of what would later be analyzed as very complex chords, it would be impossible for the theory of chord progression to guide me. I'm not controlling chords, which can easily contain all 12 notes, but controlling the paths of between 6 to 15 notes. Hearing each one of these aggregate components propogate themselves alog their own gravitational pull set in motion purely by what I hear. When you learn to view aggregates (chords) by their individual, simultaneously occuring components, struck coincidentally together at nodal points (like a well written fugue), your control and translation from your mind of the perceived harmonic fabric becomes far greater and more subject to instant composition, the highest state of improvisational because each and every note sounded is done so under the strictest linear control. Chords are nothing more than simultaneously sounded counterpoint and hearing and viewing them thusly will open up your playing to new dimensions.
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#1133351 - 01/02/08 10:05 AM
Re: Jazz Piano?
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Full Member
Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 84
Loc: Osaka, Japan
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Disciple- Do you reccomend any specifics excercises regarding developing control for hearing and controlling individual moving voices in the context of aggregates? What about hearing ahead in an improvised line? What kind of excercises do you reccomend working with? Best, Tom
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#1133352 - 01/03/08 01:31 AM
Re: Jazz Piano?
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Full Member
Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 288
Loc: NYC
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Originally posted by monkmonk:  Disciple- Do you reccomend any specifics excercises regarding developing control for hearing and controlling individual moving voices in the context of aggregates? What about hearing ahead in an improvised line? What kind of excercises do you reccomend working with? Best, Tom [/b] In all of western music, the single most important element is the creative and tasteful development of the melodic line. It's shape (contour) and rhythmic development. This is true of both the composing process and the improvising (instant composition) processes. Most great composers with a high level of instrumental skill, are brilliant improvisors. I think linearly when I improvise. In ever-motivically developing, overlapped stretches that stand on their own and are combined with other interlaced stretches based on either one or more motifs or the established melody of the song. Learning Tin Pan Alley songs with melodies that embrace a high potential degree of harmonic diversity (like What Is This Thing Called Love vs. Twinkle Twinkle Little Star) vs. static melodies implying very inflexible harmonic potential, is an excellent way to learn expressing creation based on each song's parameters. I start improvising students by having them learn the melodies of several songs and work with developing these melodies starting at a very slow tempo, everything totally under control. Here's an example of this type of additive, totally controlled approach to learning to improvise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z3DeldDZtk Connie studied with Lennie Tristano for many years, and is also a life-long student of Lennie's concepts and approach.
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#1133353 - 01/04/08 01:09 AM
Re: Jazz Piano?
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Full Member
Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 84
Loc: Osaka, Japan
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Connie's approach reminds me of Lee Konitz's ten step approach. However, both of these methods assume you have something in your ear worth playing. Many players aren't hearing anything in their minds ear, or if they are it's a very weak signal. It's a different process for each individual, but I seem to think that transcribing and singing solos/tunes is the best way to expand what you can hear over a particular harmonic sequence. However I've found singing basslines, singing the melody over basslines, and singing guide tone lines to really be beneficial.
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#1133354 - 01/04/08 09:41 AM
Re: Jazz Piano?
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Full Member
Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 288
Loc: NYC
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Originally posted by monkmonk:  Connie's approach reminds me of Lee Konitz's ten step approach. However, both of these methods assume you have something in your ear worth playing. Many players aren't hearing anything in their minds ear, or if they are it's a very weak signal. It's a different process for each individual, but I seem to think that transcribing and singing solos/tunes is the best way to expand what you can hear over a particular harmonic sequence. However I've found singing basslines, singing the melody over basslines, and singing guide tone lines to really be beneficial. [/b] Very perceptive. In bodybuilding, the addage is "garbage in, garbage out", meaning that if your diet isn't conducive to muscle growth, the exercise portion of the entire growth phase won't be as effective as it would be with excellent nutrition. Singing melodies as you play, with recordings, and countermelodies is excellent nutritional support for your ear and mind and better fills you with music that comes out from within. In music, melodies and stretches are king. Chords are an illusion created by the nodal rhythmic coincidence of counterpoint.
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