Yes I do. I'm at York University. I go to jazz concerts at The Black Swan. Is that Coney Street?

York is a wonderful place.

Where can i take the test you were talking about?

Nope, just got the test back yesterday. I don't have it... Still only 2 kids in the advanced class have it. I got a 100 on the theory test though!

I thought I would test my son on the weekend with some notes at the keyboard. He has been playing for over 6 years (classically trained) and spends a lot of time improvising and playing by ear. He seems to be able to work out just about any piece simply by listening to it. I would have thought that he would have near perfect pitch or at least good relative pitch BUT no cigar. Not even close!!!

Rodney

that is exactly like me. If i have a note to start with i can figure out stuff really easily by listening to it. And if i listen to something a lot, i can figure it out, but i don't have it.

Just to add to what I tried to say above; having been on the popular 'Learn piano Jazz' website for some time, some learned soul had been reading my comments on 'ear' playing and made the following comment to me:- < Hi Alan:
By reading all your posts i deduce that you have an absolute pitch, and your subconscious outcrops when you play the piano. That�s a privilege that only a few people may have. Enjoy it.
Please read my file �The subconscious in music� and you will identify yourself in it.> End of comment. I was quite surprised by this as my mother had the knack too, which is where I inherited it from. Quite a confidence boost, must now go to 1 hours practice on my Pleyel 131 !

Alan

Reply to 'Black coffee ' Yes York is a fine City. I stopped living there in 1951. Cannot recall the Black Horse Pub.
Sometime in 1970's went to York Uni to see Teddy Wilson in a concert with Dave Sheppard group and solo too. Fantastic pianist of course specially with the Benny Goodman trio and sextet.
I never stop to analyse my playing. Just start an ony note that seems OK like F, G, B'flat and so on. If I play along, I just key in to whatever it is. I only know the notes and some of those I'm not sure of,like D sharp or E flat ?? my theory is hopeless.
Nonetheless I get by, as did many players far away better than I, but still played by ear.
Shall I contact you by private message perhaps, don't want to hog the bandwidth here.

Alan

To me perfect pitch has nothing to do with recognizing a chord when it sounds. It is simply identifying a tone when it sounds. If you couple that with theory then yes, you will know that when you hear Db F Ab that you are listening to a Db major triad.

I knew a guy in college that had perfect pitch and when we were taking ear quizzes he could hear every note out of four and would write them out from lowest to highest, BDFA for example. His problem was he had to say what quality of chord it was and he couldn't do it -- ever. He never studied his theory lessons. We helped each other because my ear was crappy and his theory was, so after he wrote out the notes, I would tell him the chord was half-diminished or whatever it happened to be.

I got better with the ear training, but never had very good relative pitch either.

Which is why it is so ideal to have both perfect pitch and relative pitch. With perfect pitch I can pick out all the notes in a chord to figure out what sort of chord it is, but it's much faster to just use relative pitch and listen to the overall tone of the chord to identify it.

If you go to the topic 'Free Jazz lessons' on this forum you will see my post on the subject of 'pitch'. We are in danger of confusing 'by ear' playing, with playing 'by ear combined with full theory training'. In the former playing, one relies on connecting your conscious mind with your subconscious mind. See the post earlier above. This certainly allows you to play jazz spontaneously. I've been playing the piano this way for 70 years and still practicing! Though I will admit, only for my own pleasure but it is amazingly soul satisfying.

Alan

I can close my eyes, play a random note on the piano, and i can identify what it is. Does this mean i have perfect pitch?

Blue Sun

Well seems like you have perfect pitch. I do not particularly think I have, as I do not seem to need it, I just play by ear and if it sounds right then that's it.

Incidentally I'm the same guy as 'Alanjazz' but due to some clitch in PC technology I lost all identity, had to make a restart.

Alan

Having perfect pitch isn't all that important. What is important is the ability to hear intervals.

Best, John

This has been discussed before. There's some confusion here as to the difference between perfect pitch, and relative pitch. To have perfect pitch you would need to be a computer, like the ETD's tuners use to tune a piano. The human ear cannot recognize the difference in pitch between A-440, and A-440.2, or A-440.5. If you could, you would have perfect pitch.
The human ear can recognize the pitch A-440 being played, and can even recognize the difference in pitch between A-440 and A-442. This is relative pitch. You can recognize the pitch A-440, and if you hear A-442, you can tell the A is now a bit more sharp, but you cannot say how much. If you could you would have perfect pitch.
Sorry guys, very few people have ever have been documented with perfect pitch ability, and the vast majority of people who think they do, only have relative pitch.

I also tune pianos without the aid of another piano or whatever device people use to aid them, purely by ear. So i'm pretty sure i have absolute pitch, my dad also has this ability, so i suppose it could be genetic.

Aural tuning has nothing to do with perfect, or absolute pitch. Tuning requires using a reference pitch, usually A-440, and being able to set a temperament by discriminating beat rates to produce a harmonious tuning within the guidelines of each pianos particular inharmonicity constants.
Then being able to set a pleaisng amount of stretch to the high treble and low bass of the piano.

I agree this thread is rather abstract. I can tell when a note is needing tuning. I can certainly tell when it is played out of harmony or out of tune for the music as written.

Then again playing by ear purely as a musician as I do without being taught anything means you know what each key sounds like. This has to be stored in the brain somewhere. For when you have done it long enough ( many years) you achieve the ability to just play the instrument. The sound is what matters and on single notes one mistake is heard immediately or even as you press the key .....but too late , at which time you double up quickly to overcome the mistake by playing the correct note. Usually the next semitone.

In jazz those errors are soon forgotten and some jazz, unfortunately, uses discordant sounds to help the abstract effect --- don't they guys ?)

I think tuners are fantastic and my Steinway had one of the best in England, he had to be, due to the poor acoustics of the room for one thing!

Alan

If you have perfect pitch then translating it to relative pitch is a cerebral skill and should be a very easy and small step to make.

However, developing absolute pitch without perfect pitch can seem impossible for some, but in theory should be doable for anyone.

I thought perfect pitch meant a great piano presentation resulting in a sale!!!!!!!!!!

So I guess if the phenomenon known as �perfect pitch� does in fact exist, then it's reasonable to assume that the phenomenon known as �tone deafness� also exists. I never really believed anyone was really tone deaf � with the exception of someone that is totally deaf. Hmm� I�ll have to give this further thought. Hmm� Okay I did, and I�m still a little baffled � and besides all this thinking is giving me a migraine.

John

That was just plum silly. :rolleyes:

John

You can read a further discussion on this topic on the 'Piano Forum.

I think in total this is a waste of time as few people can explain what they are mentally capable of. Me included. I just know I can follow along to a recording of a piece of piano or other music and get it correct on my piano which is to A 440 being brand new and tuned 3 times in a year. This is with my mental/subconscious understanding of sounds and tone of a piano keyboard. That is a 'absolute' fact!

Alan