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#1134615 - 03/12/07 02:04 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Van Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 1215
Loc: S. California
Hey, I agree with you on his playing ability, but I don't think you should denigrate his songwriting skill, at least not on the sole basis of simplicity, lots of pop and rock are even simpler than the dreck he's putting out, but you don't hear people saying it's not legit music.

Even some of the best jazz improvs are based on very simple, but memorable tunes, why is that I wonder?

And, no I don't agree with you that random Hanon sounds better than his music. Feel for the music is a very real thing, and regardless of technical brillance or knowledge of music theory, if you haven't got the feel (ability to make the music resonate with your audience) you won't get good music...maybe that's one reason so many jazz pianists with degrees in music theory simply can't cut it as professional musicians.

So please refine your argument. Haha, I'd actually like to read you demolish this guy, but it can't be on lack of complexity alone...and Monica has a point, his tune is rather pleasant and relaxing.
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#1134616 - 03/12/07 07:25 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by sid:
Hey, I agree with you on his playing ability, but I don't think you should denigrate his songwriting skill, at least not on the sole basis of simplicity, lots of pop and rock are even simpler than the dreck he's putting out, but you don't hear people saying it's not legit music.

Even some of the best jazz improvs are based on very simple, but memorable tunes, why is that I wonder?

And, no I don't agree with you that random Hanon sounds better than his music. Feel for the music is a very real thing, and regardless of technical brillance or knowledge of music theory, if you haven't got the feel (ability to make the music resonate with your audience) you won't get good music...maybe that's one reason so many jazz pianists with degrees in music theory simply can't cut it as professional musicians.

So please refine your argument. Haha, I'd actually like to read you demolish this guy, but it can't be on lack of complexity alone...and Monica has a point, his tune is rather pleasant and relaxing. [/b]
Didn't say Hanon sounded better. I stated that even the first Hanon exercise, the most basic of exercises, is inherently more complex than any of his motifs or motivic development. The only one here deserving of praise is the piano maker. Could you imagine what "Sunrise" would sound like played on a console piano? It would sound like nothing at all because it cannot stand on musical merits alone. It's the sound of the concert grand piano that is appealing to his audience. I still contend that any pianist who can touch the keys with a few varying shades of dynamic nuance can duplicate his tunes (not exactly, but sound similarly), even if they never studied composition, and that any non pianist can do just as well, someone that never played the piano before, if applying a Suzuki-like method, if they have some musical sensitivity and are walked through some very basic movements.

It's pleasant and relaxing in the same way that one of those "New age" sound machines that plays the same synth-pad chord repeated, over a waterfall, surf, or rain forest background is. As I listen to his tunes, I getthe feeling that nobody is sitting at the keyboard. \:D
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134617 - 03/16/07 07:04 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
Colin:

You ask if anyone else here has heard of Kostia. Yes, I have most of his CDs. I've listened to a lot of new age artists and he's at the head of the class, in my opinion.

One thing I'd like to add regarding some of the recent criticisms of new age pianists regarding the complexity of music, musical background and ability. For those who would bash new age artists, do you know everything about the musician you are bashing? Have you heard enough of the artist's music to be able to have an informed opinion of their abilities? Do you know what their musical background is? Do you know if they are involved in other types of musical endeavors?

I don't know much about the other new age artists, but I can talk a little about Kostia.

Kostia studied piano from age 7 to 24; attended the Rimsky-Korsakov Conservatory for 11 years, then 4 more years of study at St. Petersburg Conservatory. In 1982 he graduated the Conservatory with advanced degrees in: concert (solo) pianist, pianist for chamber ensemble, accompanist, and piano teacher. Since then he has worked on many projects as performer, arranger and producer. He has composed music for movie soundtracks and radio and tv commercials. He is a multi-talented, performing musician. For anyone who might like to hear a some of Kostia's other music of his (it's not piano), here's a link.

Scroll down and listen to: Close Without Touching
http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B000005P6S001008/102-1960769-7212963

Colin: You're looking for music for "Sunrise", I don't think you'll find it, unfortunately. In case you're not aware, there's another new age music book with two other pieces of Kostia's music, "Barcelona Girl" and "Cello Song". And if you like "Sunrise", you're sure to like Kostia's CDs which are available at cdbaby.com

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134618 - 03/16/07 07:14 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
Oops, that link in my post above takes you directly to the sound sample. For anyone who may be wondering what CD that is - here's the link.

http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Olympia-Dav...74090078&sr=1-3

I would have edited my original post, but for some reason I can't - I keep getting "timed out".

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134619 - 03/17/07 05:23 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
Colin:

You ask if anyone else here has heard of Kostia. Yes, I have most of his CDs. I've listened to a lot of new age artists and he's at the head of the class, in my opinion.

One thing I'd like to add regarding some of the recent criticisms of new age pianists regarding the complexity of music, musical background and ability. For those who would bash new age artists, do you know everything about the musician you are bashing? Have you heard enough of the artist's music to be able to have an informed opinion of their abilities? Do you know what their musical background is? Do you know if they are involved in other types of musical endeavors?

I don't know much about the other new age artists, but I can talk a little about Kostia.

Kostia studied piano from age 7 to 24; attended the Rimsky-Korsakov Conservatory for 11 years, then 4 more years of study at St. Petersburg Conservatory. In 1982 he graduated the Conservatory with advanced degrees in: concert (solo) pianist, pianist for chamber ensemble, accompanist, and piano teacher. Since then he has worked on many projects as performer, arranger and producer. He has composed music for movie soundtracks and radio and tv commercials. He is a multi-talented, performing musician. For anyone who might like to hear a some of Kostia's other music of his (it's not piano), here's a link.

Scroll down and listen to: Close Without Touching
http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B000005P6S001008/102-1960769-7212963

Colin: You're looking for music for "Sunrise", I don't think you'll find it, unfortunately. In case you're not aware, there's another new age music book with two other pieces of Kostia's music, "Barcelona Girl" and "Cello Song". And if you like "Sunrise", you're sure to like Kostia's CDs which are available at cdbaby.com

Jeanne W [/b]
Background doesn't matter. What matters is what comes out when you're at the keyboard. I have a solid background in music and as Michael Haberman has said about my technical ability, "I'm in awe of it. It's frightening", this coming from a pianist's pianist who has mastered Sorabji. So you can bet dollars to donuts that my background is going to come out when I play for an audience. I'm sure not going to sit down and play chopstix with my index fingers then stand up and bid everyone a fond farewell. If my background doesn't factor into my playing, then my background and resultant ability is of absolutely no value. Then I'm Babe Ruth giving up a major league career and leaving the Yankees to go back to St.Mary's and play in the sandlot with the kids. If Kostia can really play or compose, you certainly can't tell that from this pitiful rooker of "Aeolian Wind Chime music" he's playing here. It sounds like he's tuning the piano, not playing it.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134620 - 03/17/07 11:48 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
MLT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 356
Virtuosic1,

You should re-read thru the posts you’ve made here. Just for your information, this discussion has re-started on another forum due to the nasty tone you seem to insist on propagating here. Please, for all our sake, don’t try and find it.

To bad too. I’m sure you’re a good musician and might have actually had something constructive to add to the discussion, but your ego seems to be the size of the Brooklyn bridge and you insist on making sure we all know just how special you are.

OK Virtuosic, you’re the best pianist since Chopin, we believe you, now go outside and play.

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#1134621 - 03/17/07 01:20 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by MLT:
Virtuosic1,

You should re-read thru the posts you’ve made here. Just for your information, this discussion has re-started on another forum due to the nasty tone you seem to insist on propagating here. Please, for all our sake, don’t try and find it.

To bad too. I’m sure you’re a good musician and might have actually had something constructive to add to the discussion, but your ego seems to be the size of the Brooklyn bridge and you insist on making sure we all know just how special you are.

OK Virtuosic, you’re the best pianist since Chopin, we believe you, now go outside and play. [/b]
How intolerant you are of other people's opinions, but I can well understand. Some folks don't like to hear the truth based in facts. The content of the posts are facts with a firm basis in music. Thusfar, nobody here that's rushed to the defense of this insipid music is willing to discuss the music analytically except me. Why is that? Let's discuss pieces like Sunshine from a compositional/theoretical standpoint examining his motivic and harmonic development of his opening materials. Show me musically, why you think his little nursery rhymes are the works of a groundbreaking, unparalleled genius.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

Top
#1134622 - 03/17/07 01:30 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Van Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 1215
Loc: S. California
"How intolerant you are of other people's opinions"

\:\)
_________________________

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#1134623 - 03/17/07 02:17 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
namekuseijin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 49
Loc: Brazil
virtuosistic, i wholeheartdly agree with you.

But people in our times don't like virtues, they cultivate vices instead. They like paying for junk and even displaying it to their friends with proud. They actually pay for consuming greasy chunks of garbage at MacDonalds, dig lots of porn and listen to trash metal or rap or new age or whatever crap the drug they are taking at the moment makes them listen to. People on crack generally go trash or rap -- depending on skin color -- marijuana asks for a more "relaxing" reagge or new age. People on heroin go for atonal and serialism... that's like it really.

I think it's a sign of the times for Western civilization. Guess who are cultivating virtues instead these days? That's right, all those chinese virtuosistic violin players discovering a great past treasure from other civilization... what will they create from there on?
_________________________
tr~~

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#1134624 - 03/17/07 03:51 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
virtuosic 1:

I'm interested in hearing what you have to say and trying to understand your point of view. I am hoping for further discussion of this topic in a respectful manner. I must admit I'm disappointed in some of the ways you have responded. Bashing someone else's music is not very respectful, nor is it an effective way of advancing or promoting understanding of your thought process. I hope you'll continue to add to this discussion as long as you're willing to proceed in a civilized manner. I think you are. \:D

So virtuoso, to continue - you say "whatever comes out" - the music - is the most important thing. We are in total agreement about that. IMO, background, training, ethnicity, nationality should not color a person's opinion of music.

You also say you are making value judgments on musical content. You then talk about your own abilities, how technically advanced you are and that comes out when you play and how it would be "of absolutely no value" to play something that doesn't factor in your playing, background and resultant ability. I would like to make sure I am understanding you correctly on this point…

Are you saying that playing music that is easier than the level you are capable of playing is "of absolutely no value"?

Are you also saying music that is not technically challenging and not so very complex is of little or no value?

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134625 - 03/17/07 04:06 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
 Quote:
Originally posted by namekuseijin:
virtuosistic, i wholeheartdly agree with you.

But people in our times don't like virtues, they cultivate vices instead. They like paying for junk and even displaying it to their friends with proud. They actually pay for consuming greasy chunks of garbage at MacDonalds, dig lots of porn and listen to trash metal or rap or new age or whatever crap the drug they are taking at the moment makes them listen to. People on crack generally go trash or rap -- depending on skin color -- marijuana asks for a more "relaxing" reagge or new age. People on heroin go for atonal and serialism... that's like it really.

I think it's a sign of the times for Western civilization. Guess who are cultivating virtues instead these days? That's right, all those chinese virtuosistic violin players discovering a great past treasure from other civilization... what will they create from there on? [/b]
There are those who believe that anything other than classical music (or their particular chosen type of music) is garbage.

There are those who think music that is embraced by the masses is too topical and therefore justifies as/must be junk.***

Leonard Bernstein writes in one of his books about music fashions that come and go. What is considered banal and passe, overwrought and trite is often sooner or later applauded. He tells how anyone (i.e. he himself) who appreciated Tchaikovsky's music was looked down upon by "those in the know" in the musical conservatories, etc.

It is also my understanding that many high level musical institutions of today look down upon melodic music, it, I supppose, is too "palatable to the masses" and therefore, of little or no value. Or maybe it's considered too "derivative" i.e. anything that is new, no matter how ridiculous or outlandish, must be GENIUS. Music that is not easily accessible is held in high regard.

Sorry, I think all of these "judgment calls" are pretty pitiful, some of them inexcusable, some of them extremely offensive, some downright shameful.

There is such a thing as musical snobbery. I hope never to be accused of belonging in that category.

Jeanne W

**I suppose Rachmaninov's Concerto #2 by that thought process would be deemed garbage, since many of those who listen to classical music hold that piece in high esteem. Not so long ago much of Tchaikovsky's music was looked down upon. Musical fashions come and go, just like trends in clothing.
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134626 - 03/17/07 04:30 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Christopher Burke Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 2
Loc: Hastings, Sussex, UK
Ummm.... there's more than one kind of New Age Piano Music.

The kind that seems to be in question here is the improvisatory kind, as heard on Solo Piano Radio amongst other stations. While I agree that it sounds simple some of them, George Winston for example, have taken it to a high level of achievement. And there's others you hear on the same station that make you wonder why they bother. Which makes it the same as all music - for every virtuoso of (insert your own genre in these brackets - anything from New Age to Heavy Metal) there's about 200 who make you wonder why they bother.

But there's totally different orders of New Age Pianists, and the above are just the first. Think of the John Tesh/Yanni pianists (John Tesh wouldn't exist if he hadn't heard Yanni - he'd still be a weather forecaster on American TV!!) And Jim Brickman, and the gorgeous, in style and looks, Laurie Line (hope I've spelled her right). And checkout Robert Gass, amongst many others. All write carefully crafted, beautifully orchestrated but still essentially simple piano and strings/synthorchestra pieces.

Then there's two overlap artists. Mike Rowland and Phil Chapman. Phil's pieces are about 20 minutes long, excellently paced (in my opinion) and like pools, full of eddies, shadows and sunshine. Yet he can improvise with the best, as on Journey to the East. Mike's pieces are all improvisations. I've seen him in concert, he can just sit and play and not care whether there's 200 people or just 2 watching him! He lives in his music and his music lives in him. Yet they take you on a journey down a river in a strange land, and I always find myself crying when the journey ends.

I don't think simplicity in form is a crime, or should downgrade any piece of music. 90-mph with 2000 notes in doesn't make a piece any better than slow, simple and beautiful. Checkout any of Harrison Birtwhistle's music if you really want to hear a piano being played by pogoing cats. Or - and here I'll get yelled at! - Bela Bartok. That guy (a)must have had at least 3 extra fingers and (b) didn't care what he did with them as long as none of the notes truly harmonised!

Then think of Erik Satie's Three Gymnopedies. You can't get a lot simpler than those, yet their beauty haunts you long after your head's stopped ringing from a Bartok opus.

It's not the simplicity, it's how it's used.

I'll rest my case and wait for the response

Chris Burke.

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#1134627 - 03/17/07 04:33 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:


Are you saying that playing music that is easier than the level you are capable of playing is "of absolutely no value"?

Are you also saying music that is not technically challenging and not so very complex is of little or no value?

Jeanne W [/b]
No. But there comes a point, musically, for purpose of climax, suspension, then release of tension where some musical gesture worthy of the pianist's or composer's abilities is called for. If you're heavily muscled, it doesn't mean that you should stay flexed every moment of the day, but it's nice to be able to flex occassionally for emphasis, or why bother to acheive that muscularity. Doesn't mean you have to fling doors open with all your might, but when called for, you're able to. Same with music skills. If you're constantly playing and composing at juvenile levels when you're capable of far more, why bother. Like if Ruth decided he didn't want to hit homers any more and became a pinch-hitting bunt specialist. Music that constantly goes by at 12 mph quickly loses its charm, even if beautiful melodically. I can't think of one multi-movement symphonic piece where all the movements are adagio.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

Top
#1134628 - 03/17/07 08:37 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
virtuosic1:

huh? \:D

I'm really trying to understand what you have to say, but after your last reply I'm more confused.

I thought you didn't think much of music that is not complex enough or challenging enough to play. You say that is not the case. I'd like to reply to what you just posted.

You say that a piece of music, if it all goes by at 12 mph, even if beautiful melodically, loses its charm. You further say that you can't think of one multi-movement symphonic piece where all the movements are adagio.

Regarding music going by at 12mph - not all new age music is slow tempo. And if you listen, a lot of the music has ebb and flow, tension and release, climax, etc.

You offer that you can't think of one multi-movement symphonic piece where all the movements are adagio. I'm trying to figure out what bearing that has on new age music? Most new age music are single pieces of music meant to be enjoyed as such. I don't know of any of it that comes in movements.

Wait, I'm just thinking of something. There are a few new age artists that do kinda drive me up a wall. They have found a "sound" and work it to death. There's not that much variety. One in particular, I'll talk about without naming. I really love his sound, but in truth, there is little variety in the CD I have of his music. Yes, he does in fact, seem to take a particular melodic theme and work it to death throughout the whole CD. The first track on the CD is slow and kinda contemplative and pretty and morose and sad sounding. The second is the same. The third is the same. The fifth, sixth, seventh… They're all different pieces of music, but pretty slow and by the time I've heard the 4th or 5th piece, I'm too depressed to listen to the rest of the CD.

There are some popular artists like this, also. A couple I can think of, but again, won't name. If you listen to their CDs there's no variety. The CD gets boring or irritating after a while.

There definitely is an art in the flow of music that you put on a CD. Or play at a concert. Or the music you play as a DJ. Or on the radio. You can have IMO too much of the same.

It can go the other way, also. I went to a concert recently where every single piece of music was SO FULL OF ENERGY, SO UPBEAT, it was emotionally exhausting. That is the ONLY concert I ever left at "half time". Likewise there's a danger in having too many slow pieces of music one after the other. People need a breather - "ebb and flow" is important. You need to mix it up.

There is another new age artist also, who plays very PRETTY melodic pieces. I very much like his style, also. But, again, the music never deviates from this one sound. And the one thing that really drove me up a wall is there is NEVER any PASSION, or FIRE to this one musician's music. After the 4th or 5th song, I felt like ripping the CD out of the CD player and smashing it up against the wall. \:D

HEY, MAYBE I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AFTER ALL, virtuosic? \:D At least on this one point. ??? Is any of what I'm saying resonating with you? Or are we still on totally different wave lengths???

I would like to say that ALL new age music is not the same. The music, as I said, that most commands my attention and respect, has ebb and flow, passion and fire. But I must also add, I see nothing wrong with a standalone piece of music that is slow paced, beautifully melodic and maybe doesn't deviate too much from that formula in that one piece of music. This does kinda get ruined IMO however, if it is followed by another and another and another and another without variation. That does become annoying to me.

On to something else - you said: "I guess New age afficionados paying good money to see a pianist of very limited skills play nothing more than triads and modes shouldn't surprise me."

virtuosic: beauty is in the "ear" of the beholder. can you understand that many of us find something beautiful and appealing and emotional in the music? When you say things like that, that's why I get the feeling that you are judging a piece of music on it's complexity. ???

As far as you saying that a pianist has very limited skills. What are you basing your judgment on? If you were to play a piece of music - one piece of music only- in public that was not particularly technically challenging to play, do you think it would be fair for those in the audience to come away with the opinion that you have very limited playing skills?

If the music you composed, for whatever reason, was not particularly technically challenging or complex in nature, is it fair to assume that pianist is UNABLE to play more technically advanced pieces of music? And to state unequivocally that the pianist has "limited skills?"


I'd like to add something my husband said today: "It's is possible to confuse mechanical talent with musical ability which can be two different things. Technical ability at something does not guarantee that the person appreciates the art form they are engaged in nor extend the art form by contributions of their own."

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134629 - 03/17/07 10:34 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
namekuseijin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 49
Loc: Brazil
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

There are those who believe that anything other than classical music (or their particular chosen type of music) is garbage.
[/b]
Yes, yes, a rap fan may think Chopin is for losers. But it doesn't matter much what people who enjoy garbage believe in: they are so entrenched in the junk they surround themselves into in order to feel there's more to their mediocre lifes that hardly their opinions will have any weight in deciding what survives to posterity...

We want to preserve our best to our grandsons and hide our worst from them. That's how the best works survive and transform into high art: by aiming high and correctly being identified by reasonable people to be quality stuff.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

There are those who think music that is embraced by the masses is too topical and therefore justifies as/must be junk.***
[/b]
It's not really a question of popularity, otherwise i'd despise such pieces as Moonlight Sonata or Liszt's 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody, as far as popular classical music goes.

It's a matter of overly simplism, carelessly crafted pieces of worthless fashionable works meant for the many careless ears of nowadays.

Don't forget most people who "enjoy" music actually just listen to it as an aid for either: concentrate on a subject; find love mates; social gathering. Really, most people don't care for the most abstract of arts, that's why the most popular are almost always accompanied by voice, lyrics, attitude and whatever, so that people has something concrete to relate to the sounds in the background. Very few people do in fact enjoy music by itself.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

It is also my understanding that many high level musical institutions of today look down upon melodic music
[/b]
I really have nothing against thoroughly enjoyable, beautiful melodic music. I just feel bad when the composer only offers the melody and little more. There gotta be some substance in there.

Mozart, Schubert, Chopin and Tchaikovsky are highly inventive melodic composers. But I feel of this bunch Tchaikovsky is the only one to have little to add to his beautiful and highly emotive melodies.
_________________________
tr~~

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#1134630 - 03/18/07 02:33 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by MLT:
Virtuosic1,

Just for your information, this discussion has re-started on another forum due to the nasty tone you seem to insist on propagating here. Please, for all our sake, don’t try and find it.
How about if I offer a huge reward for information leading to my finding that forum? \:D

 Quote:
To bad too. I’m sure you’re a good musician
Consider yourself being right about at least one thing.

 Quote:

OK Virtuosic, you’re the best pianist since Chopin, we believe you, now go outside and play. [/b]
You do realize that's actually four separate sentences. :rolleyes:
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134631 - 03/18/07 11:08 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
Two things I'd like to add to what I said.

I've offered some criticsm of some of the new age artists, two in particular whose music seems to build around a central theme and has little variation. I do still, however, like their music and respect their abilities to compose and to play the piano. Their music is appealing and emotional. And both of the new age artists I was speaking of, without naming them, have a style that is unique and original.

The other thing, is virtuosic you said that musical background should not affect a person's opinion of the music itself and I said I totally agree with that. The reason I offered information about one of the new age musician's musical training is because you also seem to be attacking these musician's abilities to play the piano.

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134632 - 03/18/07 11:26 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
The reason I offered information about one of the new age musician's musical training is because you also seem to be attacking these musician's abilities to play the piano.

Jeanne W [/QB]
I didn't attack anyone's abilities. I spoke on the facts themselves, specifically, the music. It's insipid. Nothing happens. It's like an 8 hour guided tour of a wheat field. The same thing over and over. A tropical garden with a stream, a beach, bird sanctuaries, wildlife, a lighthouse, etc., etc., would be far more interesting to enjoy, wouldn't it? Now, if you're a pianist/composer that is a master landscaper, capable of producing sweeping panoramas of spectacular beauty and variety with all the building materials available to you as well, why would you compose the same wheat fields over and over again, the only way to tell the differences between them by their size? Simple is OK. So is complex. Usually, there are proportionate elements of both, in varying degrees, within the same musical composition. Otherwise, it's nothing but a wheat field.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134633 - 03/18/07 11:49 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
quote:
________________________________________
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

There are those who believe that anything other than classical music (or their particular chosen type of music) is garbage.
________________________________________

namekuisjin replied:

"Yes, yes, a rap fan may think Chopin is for losers. But it doesn't matter much what people who enjoy garbage believe in: they are so entrenched in the junk they surround themselves into in order to feel there's more to their mediocre lifes that hardly their opinions will have any weight in deciding what survives to posterity..."
================================================

namekuisjin: Have you listened to rap music with an open mind and given the music a chance? Do you know much about rap music?

I don't like rap music myself, but I'm not ready to consider and call it "garbage" as you do. For a number of reasons.

I don't think I've given it a fair chance. I haven't listened to much of it, and don't know much about it. It sounds pretty "alien" to my ears and not to my liking.

But I take into consideration that I didn't grow up listening to rap, have not really been exposed to that kind of music and may never be able to develop an appreciation for it.

Granted, each person has his/her own musical taste, even if I gave rap music a fair chance, I may still just not like it.

Your comments about rap music brought to mind a few questions...

Is music that sounds different or alien to our ears fair grounds for labeling it as "trash"?

Is it fair to compare rap music to some other types of music that also sound fairly alien to our western ears? For instance, Japanese, Chinese, East Indian music and other ethnic music that originates in Eastern Europe and different places around the world. This kind of music is based on different types of musical scales and probably employs different rules of composition, as well. It sounds "foreign" and strange to us because we did not grow up in a culture hearing it.

Just because we are not accustomed to hearing a particular kind of music, and maybe never will develop an appreciation for it, or just simply don't like it, does that mean that music is of no value and necessarily "trash"? Is it trash because it doesn't adhere to "our" ideas of what music is or sounds like?

Is it constructive or fair to hold a narrow views of what music is/should be based on our own limited experience and exposure to only certain types of music?

Final thought: Some of the music we know and highly revere was in its day considered "new" and experimental and highly criticized for varying reasons. Some of the reasons for the criticsm was because the music didn't adhere to the musical standards of that time period.

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134634 - 03/18/07 11:59 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuosic1:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
The reason I offered information about one of the new age musician's musical training is because you also seem to be attacking these musician's abilities to play the piano.

Jeanne W [/b]
I didn't attack anyone's abilities. I spoke on the facts themselves, specifically, the music. [/QB]
==============================================

virtuosic1: you posted earlier:

=========================================
posted by virtuosic1:

"If you're constantly playing and composing at juvenile levels when you're capable of far more, why bother."
==================================================

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood you. What you said in that post, to me, sounded like an attack not only of one's ability to compose music but also on their playing abilities.

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134635 - 03/18/07 11:59 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
Music is organized sound. Even in silence, there is perceptible sound. Most classical, romantic, and jazz are on the higher end of the organizational spectrum. On the same scale, steam whistles, street noise, and rap occupy the bottom rungs of the musical evolutionary ladder, much like amoeba and other rudimentary 1 celled creatures in the organizational scheme of life.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134636 - 03/18/07 01:06 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
==================================
Posted by virtuosic1:

"Music is organized sound. Even in silence, there is perceptible sound. Most classical, romantic, and jazz are on the higher end of the organizational spectrum. On the same scale, steam whistles, street noise, and rap occupy the bottom rungs of the musical evolutionary ladder, much like amoeba and other rudimentary 1 celled creatures in the organizational scheme of life."
==================================================

virtuosic. I'm sorry, but I am leaving this conversation now. It is becoming tiresome and seems headed nowhere. Some of the things you say PW members would have been open to discuss with you and would have made for lively, interesting discussion. You make some valid points. Some of the things you say are factual, but some other things have more to do with your own personal likes and dislikes, your value judgements that don't necessarily hold water for the entire human race. And, unfortunately, you have an offensive way of expressing yourself.

Before I go, I'd like to say:

New Age music is NOT classical music.

I'm not sure it makes good sense, then, to compare it to classical music, and criticize it based on that criteria. That's like comparing impressionist paintings to those from the school of realism and pronouncing impressionist paintings "inferior" to the others.

New age music is what it is and should and can be appreciated for what it is.

Just because YOU prefer a different kind of type of music or fail to appreciate new age music - or country music, or rap or Japanese music or whatever kind of music - does not mean the other music is of no value, inferior, or whatever it is you are trying to say it is.

Some music is less complex or less organized, yes, that's factual. But the words you choose in discussing it seems to imply that less complex or less organized music equates to inferiority. Technically speaking, the music may be less complex, but that doesn't necessarily place it on the "bottom rungs of the musical evolutionary ladder, much like amoeba and other rudimentary 1 celled creatures in the organizational scheme of life." A less complex piece of music can have just as much to say, and evoke just as much emotion, as a more highly organized, and more complex piece of music.

You are speaking in absolutes, but much of what we are discussing is subjective.

I give up on you, virtuosic1. You can go on living in your own closeted world of music. Making value judgements of other peoples music; pronouncing which of it is "wheat fields" or or no value or whatever you want to call it or say about it. That it's a waste of time, whatever. Go on and continue judging and belittling other people's efforts at making music, music that is appreciated and loved by others.

My husband's take on this:

"People who so vehemently trash any type music based on the grounds of it not being complex enough, not being melodic enough, not fitting some supposed rules are showing basically they are narrow minded, are unable to appreciate that other people can enjoy things that perhaps they do not, and perhaps have an agenda that's behind the scenes. No music needs a defense and anyone who attacks music along such lines as these is showing such a narrow appreciation for music that you wonder if they're a musician at all or if they have some other agenda. Basically they have blinders on to the rest of the world of music. If this is an ego trip then, call it what it is."

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134637 - 03/18/07 01:30 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
And your rambling banter has nothing to do with your likes and dislikes? The problem here is that you are unable to understand my analogies.

In your topsy turvy world, where someone like Horowitz or Cziffra, in their prime, come out on stage, play 1 note, then bow and walk off to thunderous applause, I would be wondering, "Here's someone capable of alot more. This is what his concerts have been reduced to?", the same way as if Stephen Hawking decided to give up astrophysics and devote his life to the study of 1st grade mathematics. You rationalize, "Well, 1+1 = 2 is beautiful too, and I'm sure that there are many, like yourself, who find that simple equation positively charming", but why is a man that in all probability knows more about the Universe than any other living being performing rudimentary math now instead of pursuing his theoretical/mathematical exploration of black holes? Now, if once in awhile, he gave talks and worked some 1st grade math into his talks, I'm sure that his audience would tolerate his little idiosynchrosy, as long as he did talk about time, the big bang, and black holes eventually, otherwise if all he talked about was how nice it is that 1+1 =2, his audience would eventually change over from physicists, mathematicians, and astronomers to 1st graders and rubber-neckers with a morbid sense of curiosity.

I know this is going about 1000 miles over your head, and I know this by your failure to hear the differences between New Age pianists like Keith Jarrett and Kostia.

You should also inform your husband to spare the arm-chair psychiatry analyzing people that he doesn't know. I'm not vehemently trashing anybody. We're talking about simplicity vs. complexity here. Is a 50 foot building girder spray painted red a true work of art just because someone calls it art and likes staring at it from every conceivable angle, or is the Mona Lisa? My contention is that all music needs some type of symbiotic combination of both simplicity and complexity. You're the one vehemently trashing my opinions, which are based on music itself. Should I spare you the arm-chair psychiatry, or would you like to discuss your psychoses? Maybe you can consult your husband, the clinical psychologist beforehand, and then he and I can both confer your diagnosis. ;\)

**Editorial note: Oh boy. I'm sure this post will get me some new additions to my burgeoning "fan club". \:D
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134638 - 03/18/07 02:47 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
Virtuosic:

You say you have not trashed anyone's music or ability. Following are excerpts of your posts here in this thread. If you read through them, maybe you'll be able to figure out why people here think that, yes, you are trashing people's music and abilities and that many of us find what you have to say offensive.

=====================================================================
posted by virtuosic about various new age artists and their music:

…music that sounds like first assignment homework that a beginning composition student hands in to his professor? It's the type of music you usually hear when you walk into the Sam Ash keyboard.

I'll wager that anyone here on this forum that's played piano and read music for more than 6 months could turn out a dozen simple ditties like "*****" within a week's time. What's next? Twinkle Twinkle Little Star?

Anyone here can already write, or be quickly taught to write similar nursery rhyme compositions. The only difference between (artist's name removed due to respect to the artist) and someone on this Forum is that (artist's name removed) writes nonsense like this believing that he's an artist, but the only artistry he displays is his ability to convince someone else that he's an artist

…low octave left hand pedal points will sound just as pretty, yet remain just as trivial as anything (artist's name removed) has composed and recorded. That's because any tone on a well made concert grand, miked and recorded properly will sound pretty, not because (artist's name removed) strung musical elements together in any type of meaningful, creative, artistic way.

I'm simply flabbergasted that someone composing and performing such insipid music that any (and I do mean any) beginning composition student can write, and anyone that's completed the grade 1 book of any popular beginning piano course system can perform can sell concert tickets and CDs. This is "rap" for the piano. Music stripped down to its basic skeleton. His music is like exhibiting monochromatic, roller painted canvases, people paying to view the frames. Mediocrity for the sake of mediocrity.

The advantage of recording pieces like this is that if you're even a mediocre pianist/composer, with very limited skills, you could probably knock out 10 CDs worth of music per day.

Can any of these "New Age" pianists play anything else but simple modal noodling with broken triads as accompaniament?

The nauseating right hand single melody lines…

(Addressing a PW member): If you knew anything at all about piano, composition, or music in general, beyond the most rudimentary of elements, you would be able to speak about the music on a technical level instead of resorting to name calling. That's what a wuss does.

(Addressing a PW Member) Can you manage that, you ridiculous lightweight? Because if you can't do that, you've just illustrated that you're the little, whining schoolgirl here.

It seems as though… this type of "New Age" piano music has taken a giant leap backwards in utter simplicity. It sounds like piano tuning, not playing. Anyone can make this type of music without any formalized compositional or piano study whatsoever.

There's nothing wrong with liking this simplest of New Age piano any more than liking the sound of a set of wind chimes in a strong breeze and I never said there was anything wrong. I just called it what it is from its technical/structural level. Wind chimes for piano. Nothing more, nothing less.

As I listen to his tunes, I get the feeling that nobody is sitting at the keyboard.

It sounds like he's tuning the piano, not playing it.

Show me musically, why you think his little nursery rhymes are the works of a groundbreaking, unparalleled genius.

I didn't attack anyone's abilities. I spoke on the facts themselves, specifically, the music. It's insipid. Nothing happens. It's like an 8 hour guided tour of a wheat field.

…rap occup(ies) the bottom rungs of the musical evolutionary ladder, much like amoeba and other rudimentary 1 celled creatures in the organizational scheme of life.

(Addressing A PW Member) I know this is going about 1000 miles over your head…
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134639 - 03/18/07 03:50 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Van Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 1215
Loc: S. California
lol. Love it! One thing to be said for virtuosic, he doesn't indulge in carefully weighted ambiguities.

"8 hour guided tour of a wheat field"

...this is going in my scrap book of memorable sayings \:D
_________________________

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#1134640 - 03/18/07 07:16 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
Virtuosic:

You say you have not trashed anyone's music or ability. Following are excerpts of your posts here in this thread. If you read through them, maybe you'll be able to figure out why people here think that, yes, you are trashing people's music and abilities and that many of us find what you have to say offensive.

=====================================================================
posted by virtuosic about various new age artists and their music:

…music that sounds like first assignment homework that a beginning composition student hands in to his professor? It's the type of music you usually hear when you walk into the Sam Ash keyboard.

I'll wager that anyone here on this forum that's played piano and read music for more than 6 months could turn out a dozen simple ditties like "*****" within a week's time. What's next? Twinkle Twinkle Little Star?

Anyone here can already write, or be quickly taught to write similar nursery rhyme compositions. The only difference between (artist's name removed due to respect to the artist) and someone on this Forum is that (artist's name removed) writes nonsense like this believing that he's an artist, but the only artistry he displays is his ability to convince someone else that he's an artist

…low octave left hand pedal points will sound just as pretty, yet remain just as trivial as anything (artist's name removed) has composed and recorded. That's because any tone on a well made concert grand, miked and recorded properly will sound pretty, not because (artist's name removed) strung musical elements together in any type of meaningful, creative, artistic way.

I'm simply flabbergasted that someone composing and performing such insipid music that any (and I do mean any) beginning composition student can write, and anyone that's completed the grade 1 book of any popular beginning piano course system can perform can sell concert tickets and CDs. This is "rap" for the piano. Music stripped down to its basic skeleton. His music is like exhibiting monochromatic, roller painted canvases, people paying to view the frames. Mediocrity for the sake of mediocrity.

The advantage of recording pieces like this is that if you're even a mediocre pianist/composer, with very limited skills, you could probably knock out 10 CDs worth of music per day.

Can any of these "New Age" pianists play anything else but simple modal noodling with broken triads as accompaniament?

The nauseating right hand single melody lines…

(Addressing a PW member): If you knew anything at all about piano, composition, or music in general, beyond the most rudimentary of elements, you would be able to speak about the music on a technical level instead of resorting to name calling. That's what a wuss does.

(Addressing a PW Member) Can you manage that, you ridiculous lightweight? Because if you can't do that, you've just illustrated that you're the little, whining schoolgirl here.

It seems as though… this type of "New Age" piano music has taken a giant leap backwards in utter simplicity. It sounds like piano tuning, not playing. Anyone can make this type of music without any formalized compositional or piano study whatsoever.

There's nothing wrong with liking this simplest of New Age piano any more than liking the sound of a set of wind chimes in a strong breeze and I never said there was anything wrong. I just called it what it is from its technical/structural level. Wind chimes for piano. Nothing more, nothing less.

As I listen to his tunes, I get the feeling that nobody is sitting at the keyboard.

It sounds like he's tuning the piano, not playing it.

Show me musically, why you think his little nursery rhymes are the works of a groundbreaking, unparalleled genius.

I didn't attack anyone's abilities. I spoke on the facts themselves, specifically, the music. It's insipid. Nothing happens. It's like an 8 hour guided tour of a wheat field.

…rap occup(ies) the bottom rungs of the musical evolutionary ladder, much like amoeba and other rudimentary 1 celled creatures in the organizational scheme of life.

(Addressing A PW Member) I know this is going about 1000 miles over your head… [/b]
Sadly, every comment here is all too true. Please feel free to quote me on any of these pearls of wisdom anytime you'd like.
\:D

You seem to be completely missing the points I'm making. Everybody that produces sound in some organized manner, from the nervous arrhythmic tapping of someone's pencil top on a school desk during an SAT test to a highly trained piano virtuoso is technically a musician. But they are not all great musicians simply because they are producing sound. From the comments I've read in this thread, I suspect there are some that would prefer the tappings of the pencil to an Art Tatum improvisation, or a Sorabji Pastiche, but that doesn't necessarily make the pencil tapping a brilliant composition and musical work of art.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134641 - 03/18/07 08:33 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
classicalplayer Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/16/07
Posts: 13
Loc: Europe
Hi,

I think, Virtuosic1, that the so called "musical fools" you are refering to, may even agree with you, at least I do ;\) , nevertheless they have, as anybody, their right to promote their own likes and dislikes independent of your high standards; I belive words like "genius" and "great work of art" don`t have the same authoritative meaning in an internettforum like this, as it does in an academic or professional discourse; it may be you don`t fully recognise the democratic principle in this forum.

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#1134642 - 03/18/07 08:36 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Mike A Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 520
Loc: So.Cal.USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuosic1:
Everybody that produces sound in some organized manner, from the nervous arrhythmic tapping of someone's pencil top on a school desk during an SAT test to a highly trained piano virtuoso is technically a musician. But they are not all great musicians simply because they are producing sound. From the comments I've read in this thread, I suspect there are some that would prefer the tappings of the pencil to an Art Tatum improvisation, or a Sorabji Pastiche, but that doesn't necessarily make the pencil tapping a brilliant composition and musical work of art. [/b]
And, it might equally be said, the fact that something is played by a highly trained piano virtuoso doesn't necessarily make the result a brilliant composition or a musical work of art. Technique for technique's sake is more diverting than tapping for tapping's sake, but only briefly. Neither has heart.

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#1134643 - 03/19/07 11:19 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mike A:
 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuosic1:
Everybody that produces sound in some organized manner, from the nervous arrhythmic tapping of someone's pencil top on a school desk during an SAT test to a highly trained piano virtuoso is technically a musician. But they are not all great musicians simply because they are producing sound. From the comments I've read in this thread, I suspect there are some that would prefer the tappings of the pencil to an Art Tatum improvisation, or a Sorabji Pastiche, but that doesn't necessarily make the pencil tapping a brilliant composition and musical work of art. [/b]
And, it might equally be said, the fact that something is played by a highly trained piano virtuoso doesn't necessarily make the result a brilliant composition or a musical work of art. Technique for technique's sake is more diverting than tapping for tapping's sake, but only briefly. Neither has heart. [/b]
Here's a whole lot of technique for technique's sake, it has alot of heart, it cooks, and it's interesting chorus after chorus:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KlUzK4Ua1iY
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

Top
#1134644 - 03/19/07 12:37 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
namekuseijin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 49
Loc: Brazil
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

namekuisjin: Have you listened to rap music with an open mind and given the music a chance?
[/b]
Yes, I used to listen to a lot of Public Enemy and other junk in my rebel hormonal years as a teen.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

Do you know much about rap music?
[/b]
I know it's not music: it's attitude, contestation, bad lyrics, lots of dancing, lots of posing, white clothes and the likes. Not music at all.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

But I take into consideration that I didn't grow up listening to rap, have not really been exposed to that kind of music and may never be able to develop an appreciation for it.
[/b]
You don't come to "develop an appreciation" for garbage. Either you're so entrenched into it that you don't know any better or you're out of your mind, like many indeed are.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

Is music that sounds different or alien to our ears fair grounds for labeling it as "trash"?

Is it fair to compare rap music to some other types of music that also sound fairly alien to our western ears? For instance, Japanese, Chinese, East Indian music and other ethnic music that originates in Eastern Europe and different places around the world.
[/b]
Not at all. I actually enjoy Chinese and Japanese traditional music a lot: I hear a lot of solo guqin or koto pieces evertime I can get my hands at. I also enjoy the way japanese composers for animés and videogames blend traditional with western classical influences.

I like well developed music, like these traditions also display regardless of harmonic differences.
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