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#1134555 - 01/22/07 05:27 PM Getting into New Age piano music...
Fughetta 'bout it Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 54
Loc: Great Neck, NY
Hi all,
As a change of pace from all the classical that I've been playing, can anyone recommend some good 'New Age' instrumental pieces for piano?

Thanks!

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Piano & Music Accessories
#1134556 - 01/22/07 05:30 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Codetta Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 134
Loc: Chino Hills, CA
You may want to look at the music of Jim Brickman and David Lanz.
_________________________
"Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life."
Berthold Auerbach

Private Piano Teacher
Member: Music Teachers' Association of California
Evaluator: Certificate of Merit
Organist/Pianist: Christ Lutheran Church, West Covina

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#1134557 - 01/22/07 06:39 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Colin Dunn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 482
Loc: Arvada, CO
Some other suggestions -

Mannheim Steamroller's "Fresh Aire Interludes" (found in the music books for the Fresh Aire series of albums) are slow, moody, beautiful piano pieces, with slightly jazz-like sonorities.

Liz Story's pieces appear in various new age music books. These are good intermediate- to advanced-level pieces. I particularly like "Wedding Rain," though it may be too technically difficult for me to learn at my current skill level.

Suzanne Ciani's pieces are also good new age piano works. These are more "pleasant" and dream-like works.
_________________________
Colin Dunn

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#1134558 - 01/22/07 06:53 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
cajun Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 12
Loc: KY
You ought to check out Isadar. He has written
some very nice piano solos. You can hear him at
www.isadar.com. You can also order the sheet
music. Enjoy.

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#1134559 - 01/22/07 08:22 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
stephenc Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 693
Loc: Australia
Brickmans "Lake Erie Rainfall" and "Remembrance" might appeal to you.

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#1134560 - 01/22/07 09:16 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17773
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
David Nevue is a favorite in the AB forum. His website (www.davidnevue.com) lets you listen to pieces, and you can buy single piece sheet music for $3.95. He lets you see a sample page so you can gauge the difficulty. I particularly like to play The Gift, Overcome, Home, and The Emerald Valley.

George Winston is one of my favorite new age artists. Only a few of his pieces are legally available in sheet music format (as bonus tracks on his anniversary edition CDs), but they're worth it... e.g., Longing/Love from the Autumn CD and his arrangement of Canon in D.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1134561 - 01/22/07 11:18 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Fughetta 'bout it:
Hi all,
As a change of pace from all the classical that I've been playing, can anyone recommend some good 'New Age' instrumental pieces for piano?

Thanks! [/b]
Circumvent the imitators and go right to the source. As a shortcut, here's Jarrett's finest recordings:

http://www.amazon.com/K%C3%B6ln-Concert-...ie=UTF8&s=music

http://www.amazon.com/My-Song-Keith-Jarr...ie=UTF8&s=music

http://www.amazon.com/Light-Keith-Jarret...ie=UTF8&s=music

Also, an album not listed on Amazon:

Arbour Zena (his finest work at the height of his creativity) with Charlie Haden on bass and symphonic accompaniament. An incredible combination! A must listen for any Jarrett or new age/jazz piano fan ECM 1070
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134562 - 01/23/07 06:40 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
asherf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 255
Loc: Colorado
William Joseph is the best that I've found. and I've done alot of looking.

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#1134563 - 01/23/07 07:40 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by asherf:
William Joseph is the best that I've found. and I've done alot of looking. [/b]
While listening to him John Tesh and Yanni come immediately to mind. Have you heard Keith Jarrett?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPqK1JJOFxw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLCGWh-VZhI
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134564 - 01/23/07 10:16 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17773
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
virtuosic1, I agree with you that Jarrett is something special, and the Koln Concert is sublime... but I got the impression that Fuhgetta 'bout it was looking for sheet music recommendations, and Jarrett's new age style music isn't very conducive to learning to play oneself, e.g., the Koln Concert Part I alone is 26 minutes long.

Fuhgetta 'bout it, you may want to check out a Hal Leonard collection called "Ultimate New Age." It contains 39 pieces by many of the big names in new age, e.g., David Lanz, George Winston, Mannheim Steamroller, Enya, Kitaro, Liz Story, Suzanne Ciani, etc. It could be a good introduction for you.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1134565 - 01/23/07 10:39 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
Monica, Hasn't anybody accurately transcribed Jarrett's piano improvisations, or portions of it? It's elegant, but all lies easily within the hands, not that difficult pianistically and not dense enough that accurate transcription should pose a serious challenge. Have you seen any books or transcriptions online of Jarrett's music? Do they exist?
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

Top
#1134566 - 01/24/07 11:25 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Fughetta 'bout it Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 54
Loc: Great Neck, NY
Thanks all for the input!

Virtuosic1, being somewhat familiar with Jarrett, I'd imagine that it is almost certainly over my head at this time. But I will check into his stuff.

Monica, I think that 'Ultimate' book is exactly what I'm looking for to give me a foretaste.

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#1134567 - 01/24/07 12:32 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
asherf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 255
Loc: Colorado
I'm not a fan of Tesh or Yanni... somewhat enjoy some of Yanni's stuff though.

outside dust in the wind joseph has great potential to watch for. especially with pieces like piano fantasy.

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#1134568 - 01/24/07 12:58 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17773
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuosic1:
Monica, Hasn't anybody accurately transcribed Jarrett's piano improvisations, or portions of it? It's elegant, but all lies easily within the hands, not that difficult pianistically and not dense enough that accurate transcription should pose a serious challenge. Have you seen any books or transcriptions online of Jarrett's music? Do they exist? [/b]
A book of the Koln concert exists. (You can browse it at SheetMusicPlus.) I took one look at the sample page and grew pale. (And looking at the sample page only, it looks like a fairly exact transcription.) While I can't play it now, it's on my list of ultimate long term piano goals.

p.s. If you find the Jarrett thread that was started not long ago, you'll see a link to a web site that has what are probably unofficial Jarrett transcriptions, including his Over the Rainbow. Even that seems a tad too hard for me right now.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1134569 - 01/24/07 01:10 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
dpvjazz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 287
Loc: phoenix az
Here the links and a articule hope you enjoy.DPVJAZZ
Keith Jarrett: The Koln Concert
Artist Transcription
$35.00
Very hard to find in the U.S., published by Schott in Germany -- this is the complete series of concerts of Keith Jarrett, as performed in four concerts, 1975. Highly recommended, but only if you know what this is!
As with many of the most advanced transcriptions, this one could also go out of print at any time. There just isn't the profit for publishers in advanced piano transcriptions, like there is in easy piano fluff. Point is, if you are considering the Jarrett, consider spending the bucks now before it's gone. There used to be several Jarrett transcriptions in print -- if you own any, you're lucky, because they are all now out of print.
Keith Jarrett: reflections
The modern-day piano has been basically the same since the 1870’s; so basically the same that it makes one wonder why major improvements were not discovered in all those years. I think the reason is, simply, that it is a nearly complete tool for expression. People have discovered a few “new” materials to replace the “old” ones, but there is certainly no unanimity among pianists as to whether these are, artistically speaking, really improvements.

I grew up with the piano. I learned its language while I learned to speak. It is a more complete, more subtle, more vital language than words. It can celebrate; it can teach; it can affect a person physiologically whether he or she likes it or not. It is, therefore, dangerous. You can say: “I don’t agree with these words”, and deny them, but you have already been affected by the music before the denial. So … music involves an even greater responsibility than words.

Improvisation is more than the word expresses. It is a greater responsibility (again) in that the participation with the moment is, hopefully, complete. It is a “blazing forth” of a “Divine Will” (Divine if only because of its greater force). This means you (the pianist) are not only a victim of a message (impulse) quite beyond your own human ideas and thoughts, but you must put out (into the world of sound) as large a portion of it as possible (first having put complete trust in the “impulse”). Then (simultaneously?) you must be affected by that sound as though you had nothing whatsoever to do with it. Only then are you responsible to everyone listening because, only then, the listeners are all there is (there is no “pianist”).

At the same time you could say there is no listener and everyone in the hall is participating in the music … everyone is a pianist.

This process is the process of creativity. It is the process that motivates every human activity, from the Sunday Sermon to the Happy Hour at the local bar. Only the consciousness of that fact differs. If you know it incredibly well you wrote Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony. If you refuse to even consider it, then cocktail hour may be your most important experience. This is not to suggest that Beethoven’s cocktail hour might not have been momentous. Creativity is what makes humanity move (again whether they like it not or know it or not). We were Created to Participate.

People who see monotony (boredom) in Nature will see monotony in true improvisation. They will not see the process and they will bring their own monotony-of-vision with them. However, there are some truly boring things which, unfortunately, those same people might regard as interesting because it matches their monotonous vision. They will be waiting for something to come to them: something recognizable yet new! (?) A new colour, a new disco, roller skates instead of jogging, Allegro instead of Adagio, outside change to make up for inward laziness.

Participating means accepting the challenge and consciously taking part in your own life. Since you have to participate anyway, why not do it consciously? But this means “no censorship”, and at the same time it does not mean, “anything goes”. It means don’t be fooled. It means don’t be subverted. It means you have a right to “see it in action”. But you cannot tell it to change or not to change; you can only Be There to Receive It. Then you are a participant: you’re not only hearing, you’re LISTENING. This is not a passive activity. It’s really active beyond mere “movement” and “chance”. It is what motivates the kaleidoscope; not what causes emotional responses to the wild patterns, but the potential behind it: the essence, not the shell.
Keith Jarrett (liner notes from cd Bregenz-Lausanne)
http://www.gel.ulaval.ca/~savary/kj/index_en.html
http://www.jazzitude.com/jarett_topalbums.htm
http://www.lucaspickford.com/transpiano.htm
http://www.keithjarrett.org/links/#Transcriptions
http://www.keithjarrett.org/transcriptions/

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#1134570 - 01/24/07 01:14 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17773
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
 Quote:
Originally posted by dpvjazz:
As with many of the most advanced transcriptions, this one could also go out of print at any time. There just isn't the profit for publishers in advanced piano transcriptions, like there is in easy piano fluff. Point is, if you are considering the Jarrett, consider spending the bucks now before it's gone. There used to be several Jarrett transcriptions in print -- if you own any, you're lucky, because they are all now out of print. [/b]
Okay, you've scared me enough that I'm going to buy the Koln book, even if it's a decade before I can play it.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1134571 - 01/24/07 04:02 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
dpvjazz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 287
Loc: phoenix az
Monica Kern [QUOTE]

Okay, you've scared me enough that I'm going to buy the Koln book, even if it's a decade before I can play it.

Monica get that and anything else that you dream about playing somday and start working a line here and a line there into you playing and before long you will have those licks in your bag of tricks. We may never play like Keith but we can incorperate some of the ideas into our own music and learn a whole lot about playing the piano this way. I know that in the past when I was younger I spent a lot of time learning piano techique and now I have to agree that finding pieces of music that address certain problem areas in your playing
is a much better approach for musical results. This in no way means don't to those exercises but just start adding lines or passages that you connect with first and work into challanging yourself with lines that require you to work out. A lot of listening to the music you want to play is still the best way to get started and try take a smiple line from one of the transcribtions reading along with listening and then try to transcribe a line on your own. I am getting to the point in life where tommorow is today right now. DPVJAZZ

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#1134572 - 01/24/07 05:16 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
quiescen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 215
Loc: San Diego
Hi there,

I've written some New Age piano music for the easy/intermediate pianist.

Find them at http://solosheets.blogspot.com

I've also got a New Age piano course you may be interested in at http://www.quiescencemusic.com
_________________________
Edward Weiss
Quiescence Music
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1134573 - 01/25/07 11:00 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17773
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Thanks, quiescen... you've got a nice website. I find it a lot easier to learn a piece if I know what it's supposed to sound like, so I especially appreciated your linking the mp3 to "Winter Sky."
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1134574 - 01/26/07 06:40 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
swingal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 1094
Loc: England
Hello Monica,

I have just listened to 'Overcome'and will have record it and see what is is like on the piano. My PC is in an upstairs room.

I would think in terms of adding some latin American rhythm to the bass line.

I am interested in music like the 'New Age' to try and form a connection that you folk get the sensations from.

Kind regards,

Alan

PS; Wish I had a Digital on these occasions.

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#1134575 - 01/26/07 11:43 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17773
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
"Overcome" may be my favorite Nevue piece. And I would be intrigued to hear what it sounds like with a latin American rhythm!
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1134576 - 01/26/07 01:41 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
rtark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 75
Loc: Dardanelle,Ar
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Monica Kern:
[QB] David Nevue is a favorite in the AB forum. His website (www.davidnevue.com) lets you listen to pieces, and you can buy single piece sheet music for $3.95. He lets you see a sample page so you can gauge the difficulty. I particularly like to play The Gift, Overcome, Home, and The Emerald Valley.

I bought "The Gift" yesterday, and today I can hardly stay awake. I couldn't get away from it, finally went to bed at 2:30 AM. The Eb almost scared me away but dove in anyway(time to get away from "C"). A lot of things I need to ask about the song but don't want to hyjack this thread. Thanks Monica...Ray

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#1134577 - 01/26/07 01:45 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17773
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Start a new thread over in the AB forum with your questions, Ray... there's lots of us there who play The Gift and should be able to help. I love it... so pretty, and once you have it down, almost foolproof. It's the piece I always play first if I'm playing something for friends, because I know I have it down cold and won't mess it up. \:\)
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1134578 - 01/26/07 05:45 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
Is anyone here familiar with Liszt's later piano works, say 1875 on? These are all extremely reminiscent without Liszt's chromaticism.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134579 - 01/27/07 04:17 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Pete the bean Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 451
Loc: Canada
Phillip Aaberg plays some mighty fine piano. There is also a book of transcriptions available from Hal leonard. His style is a little more funky than the average new age piano player.
David Benoit-or is that smooth jazz?
A favorite of mine is Joe Hisaishi- he composes a lot of works for Japanese animtion. I have some of his sheet music from Japan that is not too difficult.
I transcribed Wedding rain by Liz Story way back in 1981. Her music stands the test of time. My students love to play Things with Wings.

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#1134580 - 01/27/07 07:28 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pete the bean:

David Benoit-or is that smooth jazz?
[/b]
Benoit is closer to smooth jazz. Out of the Bob James/CTI school, only with better chops.

Actually, Bob James would be an excellent starting point for pianists to emulate and get a feel for playing "new age jazz" piano. He plays a very tasteful, yet minimal type of piano (sort of like a Herbie Hancock in Cliff notes) that any one year piano student shouldn't have a problem transcribing and performing with the recordings. Though sparse, his comping and phrases are an excellent foundation as a point of departure:

http://www.amazon.com/Two-Bob-James/dp/B...ie=UTF8&s=music

http://www.amazon.com/One-Bob-James/dp/B...ie=UTF8&s=music
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134581 - 01/27/07 01:09 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Codetta Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 134
Loc: Chino Hills, CA
David Benoit IS Sooth Jazz. He has 3 books out. Go to www.benoit.com and take a look around. VERY versatile musician!
_________________________
"Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life."
Berthold Auerbach

Private Piano Teacher
Member: Music Teachers' Association of California
Evaluator: Certificate of Merit
Organist/Pianist: Christ Lutheran Church, West Covina

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#1134582 - 02/01/07 10:57 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17773
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Yikes. I got my Jarrett Koln Concert book today. I don't want to say I'll never, ever be able to play it... but that's probably the truth. \:\(

I guess I can always leave it on my music desk open to one of the scariest looking pages when I have company over and impress them senseless, but even then I run the risk of them asking me to play it for them. \:D
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1134583 - 02/02/07 01:25 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
Yikes. I got my Jarrett Koln Concert book today. I don't want to say I'll never, ever be able to play it... but that's probably the truth. \:\(

I guess I can always leave it on my music desk open to one of the scariest looking pages when I have company over and impress them senseless, but even then I run the risk of them asking me to play it for them. \:D [/b]
Any page with alot of notes can appear scary until you sit with it, away from the piano, and study it. Then it becomes much less mysterious and scary (unless we're talking about Sorabji, Ives, and Xenakis. That's some scary stuff no matter how long you look at it.) Since this is supposed to be an exact transcription, the advantage is all yours. You can choose a page, any page, put on your recording and analyze what he's playing before you even attempt it at the piano. This will familiarize you with it before you even attempt playing it or along with the recording, which eventually you will be able to do.
I transcribed most of the Koln Concert about 25 years ago, the parts that interested me anyway. Pianistically, it all lies easily within the hand, and Jarrett's runs, though at times extremely long (200+ note phrases) are not that difficult to execute once you know exactly what it is he's playing.
From my experience in teaching students who wanted to learn excerpts from this work, the rhythmic syncopations between hands is the most difficult aspect to conquer and once mastered, will give you great insight into Jarrett's playing.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

Top
#1134584 - 02/02/07 09:22 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17773
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
thanks, virtuosic! You are very reassuring. Last night I played around with the sections I want to be able to play (the beginning of Part I and the absolutely sublime section in Part I that begins at about the 7:20 mark), and you're right, they don't seem insurmountable, especially if I consider some of the runs and ornamentations as 'optional.' \:D Maybe I'll try to cobble together an abridgement that is feasible, or maybe I'll wait a couple of years until I've picked up enough technique to tackle it more meaningfully.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1134585 - 02/02/07 10:43 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
thanks, virtuosic! You are very reassuring. Last night I played around with the sections I want to be able to play (the beginning of Part I and the absolutely sublime section in Part I that begins at about the 7:30 mark), and you're right, they don't seem insurmountable, especially if I consider some of the runs and ornamentations as 'optional.' \:D Maybe I'll try to cobble together an abridgement that is feasible, or maybe I'll wait a couple of years until I've picked up enough technique to tackle it more meaningfully. [/b]
If you are able to play a Mozart Sonata, Bach Invention, Prelude, or Fugue, and certainly if you can play any of the Beethoven Sonatas, even if not up to prescribed tempo, you can play 99% of what Jarrett did at that Koln Concert unabridged, now, not later. Maybe some of it not quite up to tempo, but with enough certainty to do the music justice.

Stop practicing scales and arpeggios for awhile and use linear excerpts from the book for practice drills instead. You'll enrich your melodic language, be playing music instead of practicing scales, and gaining more and more insight into Jarrett's music which will allow you to master it and commit it to memory with that much more facility.

Jarrett's melodies are very simple, yet elegant. It's the way in which he embellishes these melodies, adding to their elegance, not distracting from them, that makes him Keith Jarrett. Believe me, there's as much to learn from Jarrett's musical performance here as there is from analyzing and playing any Classical piece, the music here is that good. Miss out on the embellishments, the totality, and you miss out on the entire point. Play it all. You can. Baby steps at first. Then eventually you'll be able to establish a flow and tempo, of course relying sometimes on as much tempo rubato as you need to fit all of the notes in that you can't at strict tempo being perfectly acceptible. Though now committed to paper, the nature of this music is improvisatory not compositional, right?
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134586 - 02/04/07 12:45 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
lungfish Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 43
Loc: nyc
although not exactly 'new age'
i highly recommend "Ambient 1: Music for Airports" by Brian Eno
very soothing first track. ambient says it all.

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#1134587 - 02/04/07 03:21 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
swingal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 1094
Loc: England
Good morning, Monica,

'Never say Never' is a good motto. I firmly believe that there is a corollary between practice hour numbers and acheivement in piano playing.

Jarrett is not the simplest musician to copy in my view. But I would take a great deal of notice of that post above of Virtuosic1.

I have no Jarrett recordings I don't think. So must try and get a DVD or CD any suggestions please?

Alan

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#1134588 - 02/04/07 01:40 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17773
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Alan, "The Koln Concert" is the closest thing to improvisitional piano perfection on earth, imo, and it's where I'd suggest you start. I'm not even all that much into jazz, but I love that CD and play Part I just about every day, and usually more than once. A lot of Jarrett's other stuff is much more frenetic and strikes me as random fast runs up and down the keyboard--not my cup of tea. But the Koln concert...

p.s. to Lungfish: Yes, I like that Eno album quite a bit.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1134589 - 02/04/07 06:31 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
swingal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 1094
Loc: England
Thanks for that tip Monica, will see about ordering one.
I do find some jazz piano is too abstract and full of embellishments and in so doing, looses the melody and rhythm and downbeat which is the baseline of jazz in my book. a la, Herbie Hancock style.

Alan,

ps; I guess I'm a touch old fashioned!

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#1134590 - 02/04/07 07:27 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
Alan, "The Koln Concert" is the closest thing to improvisitional piano perfection on earth, imo, and it's where I'd suggest you start. I'm not even all that much into jazz, but I love that CD and play Part I just about every day, and usually more than once. A lot of Jarrett's other stuff is much more frenetic and strikes me as random fast runs up and down the keyboard--not my cup of tea. But the Koln concert...

p.s. to Lungfish: Yes, I like that Eno album quite a bit. [/b]
Excellent taste, Monica! Arbour Zena is a Jarrett album that you would also play non-stop, guaranteed. Jarrett and bassist Charlie Haden play as one mind with Jarrett's arrangements for strings in accompaniament. This is Jarrett's finest album in my opinion:

http://www.amazon.com/Arbour-Zena-Keith-...ie=UTF8&s=music

Give a listen to the three one minute examples. Incredible stuff, certainly on par with the finest of 20th century composers.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134591 - 02/13/07 02:54 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Colin Dunn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 482
Loc: Arvada, CO
I second Pete the bean's recommendation of Philip Aaberg. I played one of his pieces, "Montana Half-Light," at a recital last December.

The piece is not very difficult from a technical perspective (early intermediate or Grade 3-4), but has a nice atmospheric quality. It lends itself well to improvisation.

In fact, my piano teacher liked this piece so much that he learned it (and embellished upon it) so he could play it on gigs! (Took him 15 minutes, took me six weeks, but I digress...) I think this is the one and only time I actually introduced a new piece of music to a piano teacher that he wanted to play! \:\)
_________________________
Colin Dunn

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#1134592 - 02/18/07 02:36 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
swingal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 1094
Loc: England
Monica,

I have ordered the K J Koln Concert and think part two will take some memorising. We'll see. Thanks for the tips.

Thanks again will talk more later.

Best regards,

Alan.

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#1134593 - 02/24/07 10:34 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Arabesque Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 549
Loc: Japan
 Quote:
Stop practicing scales and arpeggios for awhile and use linear excerpts from the book for practice drills instead. You'll enrich your melodic language, be playing music instead of practicing scales, and gaining more and more insight into Jarrett's music which will allow you to master it and commit it to memory with that much more facility. [/b]
Yes, this is a wonderful way to learn. I'm so heartened you think it possible to get this music down. Do you think it is possible or even worth memorising it? It seems even more spun out than a concerto.

But I think it would be better for students to study the theory and scales in tandem with work on the transcription.

There are also many more self contained transcriptions of Jarrett such as the standards available now. Whatever, it cannot be played like Czerny because it's jazz.
_________________________
It don't mean a ting if it don't have dat swing

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#1134594 - 02/25/07 12:58 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Arabesque:
 Quote:
Stop practicing scales and arpeggios for awhile and use linear excerpts from the book for practice drills instead. You'll enrich your melodic language, be playing music instead of practicing scales, and gaining more and more insight into Jarrett's music which will allow you to master it and commit it to memory with that much more facility. [/b]
Yes, this is a wonderful way to learn. I'm so heartened you think it possible to get this music down. Do you think it is possible or even worth memorising it? It seems even more spun out than a concerto.

But I think it would be better for students to study the theory and scales in tandem with work on the transcription.

There are also many more self contained transcriptions of Jarrett such as the standards available now. Whatever, it cannot be played like Czerny because it's jazz. [/b]
I've always worked on memorization not at, but away from the instrument. Jarret's lines are very melodic, memorable, and for the most part, all except for several, lengthy 16th note stretches, easily sung/hummed/scatted. Once you can divide up sections and scat them, the memorization process is nearly complete, especially if you have the accurate transcription, to correct any slight inconsistancies and illustrate the left hand accompaniament, which is not as crucial to this music as Jarrett's tapestry of melodic subjects, embellishments and variations on them. Memorizing away from the instrument engrains the music into your mind and ear rather than your fingers. The mind and ear are much better adept at memorizing music than merely relying on finger memory to get you through. Once engrained in the mind, Jarrett's music becomes a part of your musical experience, and can better serve as an influence for your playing. Learning music thusly has a much greater transfer/usability effect than merely playing it from muscular memory.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

Top
#1134595 - 03/01/07 05:35 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
livraf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/25/07
Posts: 22
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale
Check out briancrain.com

Here are 2 of his songs on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT9mGDlRjOA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPm9loEs1b8

Beautiful, enchanting melodies, similar to Jim Brickman and Yanni. Can also download free sheet music from his site.

Enjoy!

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#1134596 - 03/01/07 08:54 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17773
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
I like Brian Crain... you can hear him on Rhapsody. Thanks for the links... "Fly Away" is one of my favorite pieces of his, along with "Song for Sienna." The sheet music is also pretty easy to play, which always helps. \:\)
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1134597 - 03/01/07 09:40 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
livraf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/25/07
Posts: 22
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale
Hi Monica - I discovered Brian Crain on Satellite radio and fell in love with his enchanting melodies. Some of my favorites are "Song of the Heart", "Garden Gate" and "Sunrise". Sienna and Fly Away are beautiful selections too.

Do you have the sheet music for "Sunrise" ?

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#1134598 - 03/02/07 12:05 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by livraf:
Check out briancrain.com

Here are 2 of his songs on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT9mGDlRjOA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPm9loEs1b8

Beautiful, enchanting melodies, similar to Jim Brickman and Yanni. Can also download free sheet music from his site.

Enjoy! [/b]
Folks actually attend, pay money for tickets to concerts for performances of "Sunrise" and other music that sounds like first assignment homework that a beginning composition student hands in to his professor? It's the type of music you usually hear when you walk into the Sam Ash keyboard section and see 10 different people noodling on keyboards. I'm absolutely aghast that some audiences are so easy to please with such vapidity. 1-6-2-5 eight note arpeggiated accompaniament, never straying far from the root position with repetitive, ostinato melodies that never stray from the beat. Good Lord. I know I'll be slammed for it, the same way I was slammed because I disagreed with Brummel and others about Brubeck being the greatest pianist in the history of music, but I have to speak my mind on this Crain nonsense. I'll wager that anyone here on this forum that's played piano and read music for more than 6 months could turn out a dozen simple ditties like "Sunrise" within a week's time. What's next? Twinkle Twinkle Little Star? Even mentioning Crain and Keith Jarrett in the same thread is like comparing a Kalimba to a Bosendorfer Concert Grand. Crain's music reminds me of Grade 2 John W. Schaum Children's Piano Course Literature.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134599 - 03/02/07 12:22 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17773
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Ah, but it's pretty, virtuosic! ;\)

I'm not going to slam you, and I'm not going to try to argue that Crain is up there with Jarrett. But, I do like pieces with strong melodies, and Crain's work has nice strong, hummable melodies. Is Jarrett the better musician/composer? Absolutely!! I'll take the Koln concert any day over anything Brian Crain has written. [Warning: next sentence contains heresy] But I'd rather listen to Crain than some of Jarrett's more experimental wanderings up and down the keyboard...
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1134600 - 03/02/07 04:30 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
Ah, but it's pretty, virtuosic! ;\)

I'm not going to slam you, and I'm not going to try to argue that Crain is up there with Jarrett. But, I do like pieces with strong melodies, and Crain's work has nice strong, hummable melodies. Is Jarrett the better musician/composer? Absolutely!! I'll take the Koln concert any day over anything Brian Crain has written. [Warning: next sentence contains heresy] But I'd rather listen to Crain than some of Jarrett's more experimental wanderings up and down the keyboard... [/b]
Anyone here can already write, or be quickly taught to write similar nursery rhyme compositions. The only difference between Crain and someone on this Forum is that Crain writes nonsense like this believing that he's an artist, but the only artistry he displays is his ability to convince someone else that he's an artist, the same way that an artist will take a 50 foot steel girder, spray paint it red, name it "Sunrise", and convince not only an auction house, but a buyer that it's a work of art. Slow C major to A minor to D minor, to G7 arpeggios in the right hand, played on a Bosendorfer 9 footer, with low octave left hand pedal points will sound just as pretty, yet remain just as trivial as anything Crain has composed and recorded. That's because any tone on a well made concert grand, miked and recorded properly will sound pretty, not because Crain strung musical elements together in any type of meaningful, creative, artistic way. Hanon exercises sound pretty on the right piano.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

Top
#1134601 - 03/02/07 06:20 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
DeepElem Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 366
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuosic1:
What's next? Twinkle Twinkle Little Star?[/b]
You jest, but you're more correct than you know. A number of new age solo piano albums have kiddie songs on them.
_________________________
-Buck
------
If you knew what you were doing, you'd probably be bored.
- Fresco's Law

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#1134602 - 03/02/07 07:16 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17773
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
virtuosic, can we agree that musical preferences are subjective and that people have the right to like whatever music they choose, even if it is [shudder] rap or [god forbid] Brian Crain?
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1134603 - 03/02/07 07:23 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
virtuosic, can we agree that musical preferences are subjective and that people have the right to like whatever music they choose, even if it is [shudder] rap or [god forbid] Brian Crain? [/b]
Absolutely. One person's treasure is another person's garbage. I'm simply flabbergasted that someone composing and performing such insipid music that any (and I do mean any) beginning composition student can write, and anyone that's completed the grade 1 book of any popular beginning piano course system can perform can sell concert tickets and CDs. This is "rap" for the piano. Music stripped down to its basic skeleton. His music is like exhibiting monochromatic, roller painted canvases, people paying to view the frames. Mediocrity for the sake of mediocrity.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134604 - 03/10/07 04:34 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Colin Dunn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 482
Loc: Arvada, CO
Anyone on this thread heard of Kostia? I have a 2-CD set, "20 Years of Narada Piano," with a selection of new age piano pieces. The second track on the first CD is "Sunrise" by Kostia, and I'd like to learn this piece someday ... but I can't find sheet music for it. Another Kostia piece, "Flowers on the Water," is readily available (and in a new age piano book I have), but "Sunrise" is nowhere to be found. \:\(
_________________________
Colin Dunn

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#1134605 - 03/10/07 06:12 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Colin Dunn:
Anyone on this thread heard of Kostia? I have a 2-CD set, "20 Years of Narada Piano," with a selection of new age piano pieces. The second track on the first CD is "Sunrise" by Kostia, and I'd like to learn this piece someday ... but I can't find sheet music for it. Another Kostia piece, "Flowers on the Water," is readily available (and in a new age piano book I have), but "Sunrise" is nowhere to be found. \:\( [/b]
The advantage of recording pieces like this is that if you're even a mediocre pianist/composer, with very limited skills, you could probably knock out 10 CDs worth of music per day. Just write one long simple song with the new age formula (a few arpeggiated major and minor chords in the left hand within the key of C and play any combination of white keys with the right, repeating it several times to establish it as a motif), chop it up into 9 sections and then name each section something different and you have 9 songs, all of which actually sound almost exactly the same. Can any of these "New Age" pianists play anything else but simple modal noodling with broken triads as accompaniament?

In all probability, if you've got a few months of playing under your belt and can read music, even with rudimentary ear skills, you should be able to write out sunrise by listening. The left hand is nothing more than broken triadic chords, almost all in the root position, and all within the key of the piece. The nauseating right hand single melody lines are easily hummable. Anything you can familiarly hum, you can play at the piano. Give it a try. You shouldn't need the sheet music to figure out and play anything this fellow is playing, even if you're a beginning pianist.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

Top
#1134606 - 03/10/07 10:03 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
livraf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/25/07
Posts: 22
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale
blah, blah, blah, virtuosic....do you want some cheese with that whine ?? We have already heard enough of your rants against these "new age" pianists.

Your rants are bringing out the school girl in you....

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#1134607 - 03/11/07 03:29 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by livraf:
blah, blah, blah, virtuosic....do you want some cheese with that whine ?? We have already heard enough of your rants against these "new age" pianists.

Your rants are bringing out the school girl in you.... [/b]
Get the **** out of here. Like I said, one man's garbage is another man's treasure, and this garbage, this "rap" for the piano, is your cup of tea. It's admirable in a way that you can sip this and not choke yourself laughing.

Schoolgirl? Actually, my posts about this insipid music are simple facts. That's what it is. The first 8 notes of even Hanon exercise #1 are infinitely more interesting than "Sunrise". Nursery rhyme melodies that any first piano grade student could play. If you knew anything at all about piano, composition, or music in general, beyond the most rudimentary of elements, you would be able to speak about the music on a technical level instead of resorting to name calling. That's what a wuss does. They call names on the internet (not face to face), instead of debating facts as the music speakes for itself. Most pianists that I know could listen to these little gems, finally sit down behind a keyboard a week later, and play them from memory the very first time.

Learn to be tolerant of other's opinions, so you won't seem so much of an indignant fool, although the fact that you don't mind showing the full scope of your ignorance publically, is to your credit. Obviously, you can't be embarrassed, a dubious asset.

I have an idea. Why not disagree with me by doing a stunning analysis of the music? Convince me of what a compositional masterpiece this is by discussing the harmonic and melodic elements. Dazzle us with your jusical acumen. The structure and motivic development, etc.. Can you manage that, you ridiculous lightweight? Because if you can't do that, you've just illustrated that you're the little, whining schoolgirl here.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

Top
#1134608 - 03/11/07 03:14 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
livraf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/25/07
Posts: 22
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale
lol, haha, i am the one complaining ? its comical to me how a simple post about other artists can get an egomaniac like yourself all up tight...

previous post was mentioning another song named sunrise by another artist, which you dont know but have to use your egotistical sense and assumed that it is in c. Well, listen to the song first and a jazz virtuoso like yourself or an elementary grade I piano student should be able to tell it is not in c...

you have already made your point about new age and the previous post was just a simple question about sheet music; and yet you still have to get your rants in...

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#1134609 - 03/11/07 03:30 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by livraf:
lol, haha, i am the one complaining ? its comical to me how a simple post about other artists can get an egomaniac like yourself all up tight...

previous post was mentioning another song named sunrise by another artist, which you dont know but have to use your egotistical sense and assumed that it is in c. Well, listen to the song first and a jazz virtuoso like yourself or an elementary grade I piano student should be able to tell it is not in c...

you have already made your point about new age and the previous post was just a simple question about sheet music; and yet you still have to get your rants in... [/b]
What I said was that anyone playing all white keys, all triads that are part of the C tonality, and melodies comprised of the C scale and it's associated modes of the C scale, could both write and play music of this extremely basic, limited nature. Your reading comprehension s**ks. I never stated a key for this piece. I told him that he could duplicate it and 1000 more like it by hitting any combination of white keys. Perhaps you should go back and have an adult read my posts to you, explaining their content as you go.

For that matter, my comments were to his request for sheet music. I informed him that sheet music isn't necessary, it's that simple, and that's a fact.

I automatically assume that pianists can transpose freely from one key to another and if they can do this in C major, they can duplicate it in any of the other 11 major keys and their associated modes, because transposition should be a basic skill. Unfortuntely, it looks like I assumed too much., as this isn't 20 years ago, when "professional" pianists were expected to have those type of skills readily at hand.

It seems as though since Jarrett, this type of "New Age" piano music has taken a giant leap backwards in utter simplicity. It sounds like piano tuning, not playing. Anyone can make this type of music without any formalized compositional or piano study whatsoever. It's like if automakers decided to simplify vehicles back to the design of 1902 Oldsmobiles. No air-conditioning, no power steering, no interior, just a buckboard wagon with a 2 horsepower motor strapped over an axle. It's piano music completely stripped of all flesh, just the barest of bones. It's rap for the piano. A style evolved for music lovers of very limited musical skills, study, and creativity.

Are you ready to discuss the harmonic and melodic elements of Sunrise? Let me know when you're equipped to do so. Perhaps you have a friend someplace that knows something about the mechanics of music that you can consult. Use your lifeline. \:D
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134610 - 03/11/07 03:37 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by livraf:
lol, haha, i am the one complaining ? its comical to me how a simple post about other artists can get an egomaniac like yourself all up tight...

[/b]
All up tight? Don't flatter yourself. My pulse never rises above 52 unless I'm exercising.

What's comical to me is your inability to discuss even this most basic of music from a technical level, yet you want to pontificate about me, a subject you know even less about than music, if that's humanly possible.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134611 - 03/11/07 02:40 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
lungfish Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 43
Loc: nyc
i too think its absurd that people pay to see and hear simplicity, but i don't have anything against the music itself. if anything it gives a mediocre player a feeling that they don't have to be extremely talented to write music and have it mean something.
the trouble is when that player believes that they're extremely good in playing simply and elementary pieces.
similarly, if livraf said that Crain is a *better* and more talented pianist than Jarrett (maybe i missed it) then that's ridiculous and obviously not true.
otherwise i think liking music like this is fine.
although if someone somehow thinks that Crain is a master of the instrument than they're sadly mistaken. but that's not likely.
i also have to stick up for people that can't talk about music technically. not particularly sticking up for livraf but for others like me who know an okay amount but are not experts on reading or talking about music. and although they don't always know the musical terms and such their passion for music suffices and is more than enough \:\)

i'm sure none of that made sense. haha.

ps- i agreed about the Brubeck thing. boy was that ridiculous.
i think he threatened you? haha.

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#1134612 - 03/11/07 05:07 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by lungfish:
i too think its absurd that people pay to see and hear simplicity, but i don't have anything against the music itself. if anything it gives a mediocre player a feeling that they don't have to be extremely talented to write music and have it mean something.
the trouble is when that player believes that they're extremely good in playing simply and elementary pieces.
similarly, if livraf said that Crain is a *better* and more talented pianist than Jarrett (maybe i missed it) then that's ridiculous and obviously not true.
otherwise i think liking music like this is fine.
although if someone somehow thinks that Crain is a master of the instrument than they're sadly mistaken. but that's not likely.
i also have to stick up for people that can't talk about music technically. not particularly sticking up for livraf but for others like me who know an okay amount but are not experts on reading or talking about music. and although they don't always know the musical terms and such their passion for music suffices and is more than enough \:\)

i'm sure none of that made sense. haha.

ps- i agreed about the Brubeck thing. boy was that ridiculous.
i think he threatened you? haha. [/b]
Absolutely. I never criticized anyone's like or dislike of this simple stuff that anyone can play or compose. If you like it, you like it. I simply commented on its content, making a value judgement on that alone and not judging anyone's like or dislike of it. I play and wirte some extremely complex stuff. I also play and write some simple things too. I like both, complex and simple, but if all I could do was write and play the simplest of things, I would soon tire of it and do something about it, arming myself with more technical and compositional ability.
There's nothing wrong with liking this simplest of New Age piano any more than liking the sound of a set of wind chimes in a strong breeze and I never said there was anything wrong. I just called it what it is from its technical/structural level. Wind chimes for piano. Nothing more, nothing less. At one time, avant garde afficionados paid money to sit in a theater and watch John Cage tune 12 different radios to 12 different stations and call it a composition. I guess New age afficionados paying good money to see a pianist of very limited skills play nothing more than triads and modes shouldn't surprise me. Maybe if these New Age pianists painted the piano lime green with orange polka-dots and glued a red ping-pong ball on the tip of their nose I'd be slightly less surprised.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134613 - 03/11/07 05:55 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Pete the bean Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 451
Loc: Canada
This post has taken a bit of a nasty turn. I'm outta here.

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#1134614 - 03/11/07 08:59 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pete the bean:
This post has taken a bit of a nasty turn. I'm outta here. [/b]
If your constitution is that easily upset, drink an Alka-Seltzer, play a few very slow white key glisses with the sustain pedal floored throughout, just to get into the proper "New age Piano spirit", and come on back later. I think all the trouble-makers have now vacated this thread.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134615 - 03/12/07 02:04 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Van Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 1215
Loc: S. California
Hey, I agree with you on his playing ability, but I don't think you should denigrate his songwriting skill, at least not on the sole basis of simplicity, lots of pop and rock are even simpler than the dreck he's putting out, but you don't hear people saying it's not legit music.

Even some of the best jazz improvs are based on very simple, but memorable tunes, why is that I wonder?

And, no I don't agree with you that random Hanon sounds better than his music. Feel for the music is a very real thing, and regardless of technical brillance or knowledge of music theory, if you haven't got the feel (ability to make the music resonate with your audience) you won't get good music...maybe that's one reason so many jazz pianists with degrees in music theory simply can't cut it as professional musicians.

So please refine your argument. Haha, I'd actually like to read you demolish this guy, but it can't be on lack of complexity alone...and Monica has a point, his tune is rather pleasant and relaxing.
_________________________

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#1134616 - 03/12/07 07:25 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by sid:
Hey, I agree with you on his playing ability, but I don't think you should denigrate his songwriting skill, at least not on the sole basis of simplicity, lots of pop and rock are even simpler than the dreck he's putting out, but you don't hear people saying it's not legit music.

Even some of the best jazz improvs are based on very simple, but memorable tunes, why is that I wonder?

And, no I don't agree with you that random Hanon sounds better than his music. Feel for the music is a very real thing, and regardless of technical brillance or knowledge of music theory, if you haven't got the feel (ability to make the music resonate with your audience) you won't get good music...maybe that's one reason so many jazz pianists with degrees in music theory simply can't cut it as professional musicians.

So please refine your argument. Haha, I'd actually like to read you demolish this guy, but it can't be on lack of complexity alone...and Monica has a point, his tune is rather pleasant and relaxing. [/b]
Didn't say Hanon sounded better. I stated that even the first Hanon exercise, the most basic of exercises, is inherently more complex than any of his motifs or motivic development. The only one here deserving of praise is the piano maker. Could you imagine what "Sunrise" would sound like played on a console piano? It would sound like nothing at all because it cannot stand on musical merits alone. It's the sound of the concert grand piano that is appealing to his audience. I still contend that any pianist who can touch the keys with a few varying shades of dynamic nuance can duplicate his tunes (not exactly, but sound similarly), even if they never studied composition, and that any non pianist can do just as well, someone that never played the piano before, if applying a Suzuki-like method, if they have some musical sensitivity and are walked through some very basic movements.

It's pleasant and relaxing in the same way that one of those "New age" sound machines that plays the same synth-pad chord repeated, over a waterfall, surf, or rain forest background is. As I listen to his tunes, I getthe feeling that nobody is sitting at the keyboard. \:D
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134617 - 03/16/07 07:04 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
Colin:

You ask if anyone else here has heard of Kostia. Yes, I have most of his CDs. I've listened to a lot of new age artists and he's at the head of the class, in my opinion.

One thing I'd like to add regarding some of the recent criticisms of new age pianists regarding the complexity of music, musical background and ability. For those who would bash new age artists, do you know everything about the musician you are bashing? Have you heard enough of the artist's music to be able to have an informed opinion of their abilities? Do you know what their musical background is? Do you know if they are involved in other types of musical endeavors?

I don't know much about the other new age artists, but I can talk a little about Kostia.

Kostia studied piano from age 7 to 24; attended the Rimsky-Korsakov Conservatory for 11 years, then 4 more years of study at St. Petersburg Conservatory. In 1982 he graduated the Conservatory with advanced degrees in: concert (solo) pianist, pianist for chamber ensemble, accompanist, and piano teacher. Since then he has worked on many projects as performer, arranger and producer. He has composed music for movie soundtracks and radio and tv commercials. He is a multi-talented, performing musician. For anyone who might like to hear a some of Kostia's other music of his (it's not piano), here's a link.

Scroll down and listen to: Close Without Touching
http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B000005P6S001008/102-1960769-7212963

Colin: You're looking for music for "Sunrise", I don't think you'll find it, unfortunately. In case you're not aware, there's another new age music book with two other pieces of Kostia's music, "Barcelona Girl" and "Cello Song". And if you like "Sunrise", you're sure to like Kostia's CDs which are available at cdbaby.com

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134618 - 03/16/07 07:14 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
Oops, that link in my post above takes you directly to the sound sample. For anyone who may be wondering what CD that is - here's the link.

http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Olympia-Dav...74090078&sr=1-3

I would have edited my original post, but for some reason I can't - I keep getting "timed out".

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134619 - 03/17/07 05:23 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
Colin:

You ask if anyone else here has heard of Kostia. Yes, I have most of his CDs. I've listened to a lot of new age artists and he's at the head of the class, in my opinion.

One thing I'd like to add regarding some of the recent criticisms of new age pianists regarding the complexity of music, musical background and ability. For those who would bash new age artists, do you know everything about the musician you are bashing? Have you heard enough of the artist's music to be able to have an informed opinion of their abilities? Do you know what their musical background is? Do you know if they are involved in other types of musical endeavors?

I don't know much about the other new age artists, but I can talk a little about Kostia.

Kostia studied piano from age 7 to 24; attended the Rimsky-Korsakov Conservatory for 11 years, then 4 more years of study at St. Petersburg Conservatory. In 1982 he graduated the Conservatory with advanced degrees in: concert (solo) pianist, pianist for chamber ensemble, accompanist, and piano teacher. Since then he has worked on many projects as performer, arranger and producer. He has composed music for movie soundtracks and radio and tv commercials. He is a multi-talented, performing musician. For anyone who might like to hear a some of Kostia's other music of his (it's not piano), here's a link.

Scroll down and listen to: Close Without Touching
http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B000005P6S001008/102-1960769-7212963

Colin: You're looking for music for "Sunrise", I don't think you'll find it, unfortunately. In case you're not aware, there's another new age music book with two other pieces of Kostia's music, "Barcelona Girl" and "Cello Song". And if you like "Sunrise", you're sure to like Kostia's CDs which are available at cdbaby.com

Jeanne W [/b]
Background doesn't matter. What matters is what comes out when you're at the keyboard. I have a solid background in music and as Michael Haberman has said about my technical ability, "I'm in awe of it. It's frightening", this coming from a pianist's pianist who has mastered Sorabji. So you can bet dollars to donuts that my background is going to come out when I play for an audience. I'm sure not going to sit down and play chopstix with my index fingers then stand up and bid everyone a fond farewell. If my background doesn't factor into my playing, then my background and resultant ability is of absolutely no value. Then I'm Babe Ruth giving up a major league career and leaving the Yankees to go back to St.Mary's and play in the sandlot with the kids. If Kostia can really play or compose, you certainly can't tell that from this pitiful rooker of "Aeolian Wind Chime music" he's playing here. It sounds like he's tuning the piano, not playing it.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134620 - 03/17/07 11:48 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
MLT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 356
Virtuosic1,

You should re-read thru the posts you’ve made here. Just for your information, this discussion has re-started on another forum due to the nasty tone you seem to insist on propagating here. Please, for all our sake, don’t try and find it.

To bad too. I’m sure you’re a good musician and might have actually had something constructive to add to the discussion, but your ego seems to be the size of the Brooklyn bridge and you insist on making sure we all know just how special you are.

OK Virtuosic, you’re the best pianist since Chopin, we believe you, now go outside and play.

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#1134621 - 03/17/07 01:20 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by MLT:
Virtuosic1,

You should re-read thru the posts you’ve made here. Just for your information, this discussion has re-started on another forum due to the nasty tone you seem to insist on propagating here. Please, for all our sake, don’t try and find it.

To bad too. I’m sure you’re a good musician and might have actually had something constructive to add to the discussion, but your ego seems to be the size of the Brooklyn bridge and you insist on making sure we all know just how special you are.

OK Virtuosic, you’re the best pianist since Chopin, we believe you, now go outside and play. [/b]
How intolerant you are of other people's opinions, but I can well understand. Some folks don't like to hear the truth based in facts. The content of the posts are facts with a firm basis in music. Thusfar, nobody here that's rushed to the defense of this insipid music is willing to discuss the music analytically except me. Why is that? Let's discuss pieces like Sunshine from a compositional/theoretical standpoint examining his motivic and harmonic development of his opening materials. Show me musically, why you think his little nursery rhymes are the works of a groundbreaking, unparalleled genius.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134622 - 03/17/07 01:30 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Van Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 1215
Loc: S. California
"How intolerant you are of other people's opinions"

\:\)
_________________________

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#1134623 - 03/17/07 02:17 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
namekuseijin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 49
Loc: Brazil
virtuosistic, i wholeheartdly agree with you.

But people in our times don't like virtues, they cultivate vices instead. They like paying for junk and even displaying it to their friends with proud. They actually pay for consuming greasy chunks of garbage at MacDonalds, dig lots of porn and listen to trash metal or rap or new age or whatever crap the drug they are taking at the moment makes them listen to. People on crack generally go trash or rap -- depending on skin color -- marijuana asks for a more "relaxing" reagge or new age. People on heroin go for atonal and serialism... that's like it really.

I think it's a sign of the times for Western civilization. Guess who are cultivating virtues instead these days? That's right, all those chinese virtuosistic violin players discovering a great past treasure from other civilization... what will they create from there on?
_________________________
tr~~

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#1134624 - 03/17/07 03:51 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
virtuosic 1:

I'm interested in hearing what you have to say and trying to understand your point of view. I am hoping for further discussion of this topic in a respectful manner. I must admit I'm disappointed in some of the ways you have responded. Bashing someone else's music is not very respectful, nor is it an effective way of advancing or promoting understanding of your thought process. I hope you'll continue to add to this discussion as long as you're willing to proceed in a civilized manner. I think you are. \:D

So virtuoso, to continue - you say "whatever comes out" - the music - is the most important thing. We are in total agreement about that. IMO, background, training, ethnicity, nationality should not color a person's opinion of music.

You also say you are making value judgments on musical content. You then talk about your own abilities, how technically advanced you are and that comes out when you play and how it would be "of absolutely no value" to play something that doesn't factor in your playing, background and resultant ability. I would like to make sure I am understanding you correctly on this point…

Are you saying that playing music that is easier than the level you are capable of playing is "of absolutely no value"?

Are you also saying music that is not technically challenging and not so very complex is of little or no value?

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134625 - 03/17/07 04:06 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
 Quote:
Originally posted by namekuseijin:
virtuosistic, i wholeheartdly agree with you.

But people in our times don't like virtues, they cultivate vices instead. They like paying for junk and even displaying it to their friends with proud. They actually pay for consuming greasy chunks of garbage at MacDonalds, dig lots of porn and listen to trash metal or rap or new age or whatever crap the drug they are taking at the moment makes them listen to. People on crack generally go trash or rap -- depending on skin color -- marijuana asks for a more "relaxing" reagge or new age. People on heroin go for atonal and serialism... that's like it really.

I think it's a sign of the times for Western civilization. Guess who are cultivating virtues instead these days? That's right, all those chinese virtuosistic violin players discovering a great past treasure from other civilization... what will they create from there on? [/b]
There are those who believe that anything other than classical music (or their particular chosen type of music) is garbage.

There are those who think music that is embraced by the masses is too topical and therefore justifies as/must be junk.***

Leonard Bernstein writes in one of his books about music fashions that come and go. What is considered banal and passe, overwrought and trite is often sooner or later applauded. He tells how anyone (i.e. he himself) who appreciated Tchaikovsky's music was looked down upon by "those in the know" in the musical conservatories, etc.

It is also my understanding that many high level musical institutions of today look down upon melodic music, it, I supppose, is too "palatable to the masses" and therefore, of little or no value. Or maybe it's considered too "derivative" i.e. anything that is new, no matter how ridiculous or outlandish, must be GENIUS. Music that is not easily accessible is held in high regard.

Sorry, I think all of these "judgment calls" are pretty pitiful, some of them inexcusable, some of them extremely offensive, some downright shameful.

There is such a thing as musical snobbery. I hope never to be accused of belonging in that category.

Jeanne W

**I suppose Rachmaninov's Concerto #2 by that thought process would be deemed garbage, since many of those who listen to classical music hold that piece in high esteem. Not so long ago much of Tchaikovsky's music was looked down upon. Musical fashions come and go, just like trends in clothing.
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134626 - 03/17/07 04:30 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Christopher Burke Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 2
Loc: Hastings, Sussex, UK
Ummm.... there's more than one kind of New Age Piano Music.

The kind that seems to be in question here is the improvisatory kind, as heard on Solo Piano Radio amongst other stations. While I agree that it sounds simple some of them, George Winston for example, have taken it to a high level of achievement. And there's others you hear on the same station that make you wonder why they bother. Which makes it the same as all music - for every virtuoso of (insert your own genre in these brackets - anything from New Age to Heavy Metal) there's about 200 who make you wonder why they bother.

But there's totally different orders of New Age Pianists, and the above are just the first. Think of the John Tesh/Yanni pianists (John Tesh wouldn't exist if he hadn't heard Yanni - he'd still be a weather forecaster on American TV!!) And Jim Brickman, and the gorgeous, in style and looks, Laurie Line (hope I've spelled her right). And checkout Robert Gass, amongst many others. All write carefully crafted, beautifully orchestrated but still essentially simple piano and strings/synthorchestra pieces.

Then there's two overlap artists. Mike Rowland and Phil Chapman. Phil's pieces are about 20 minutes long, excellently paced (in my opinion) and like pools, full of eddies, shadows and sunshine. Yet he can improvise with the best, as on Journey to the East. Mike's pieces are all improvisations. I've seen him in concert, he can just sit and play and not care whether there's 200 people or just 2 watching him! He lives in his music and his music lives in him. Yet they take you on a journey down a river in a strange land, and I always find myself crying when the journey ends.

I don't think simplicity in form is a crime, or should downgrade any piece of music. 90-mph with 2000 notes in doesn't make a piece any better than slow, simple and beautiful. Checkout any of Harrison Birtwhistle's music if you really want to hear a piano being played by pogoing cats. Or - and here I'll get yelled at! - Bela Bartok. That guy (a)must have had at least 3 extra fingers and (b) didn't care what he did with them as long as none of the notes truly harmonised!

Then think of Erik Satie's Three Gymnopedies. You can't get a lot simpler than those, yet their beauty haunts you long after your head's stopped ringing from a Bartok opus.

It's not the simplicity, it's how it's used.

I'll rest my case and wait for the response

Chris Burke.

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#1134627 - 03/17/07 04:33 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:


Are you saying that playing music that is easier than the level you are capable of playing is "of absolutely no value"?

Are you also saying music that is not technically challenging and not so very complex is of little or no value?

Jeanne W [/b]
No. But there comes a point, musically, for purpose of climax, suspension, then release of tension where some musical gesture worthy of the pianist's or composer's abilities is called for. If you're heavily muscled, it doesn't mean that you should stay flexed every moment of the day, but it's nice to be able to flex occassionally for emphasis, or why bother to acheive that muscularity. Doesn't mean you have to fling doors open with all your might, but when called for, you're able to. Same with music skills. If you're constantly playing and composing at juvenile levels when you're capable of far more, why bother. Like if Ruth decided he didn't want to hit homers any more and became a pinch-hitting bunt specialist. Music that constantly goes by at 12 mph quickly loses its charm, even if beautiful melodically. I can't think of one multi-movement symphonic piece where all the movements are adagio.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134628 - 03/17/07 08:37 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
virtuosic1:

huh? \:D

I'm really trying to understand what you have to say, but after your last reply I'm more confused.

I thought you didn't think much of music that is not complex enough or challenging enough to play. You say that is not the case. I'd like to reply to what you just posted.

You say that a piece of music, if it all goes by at 12 mph, even if beautiful melodically, loses its charm. You further say that you can't think of one multi-movement symphonic piece where all the movements are adagio.

Regarding music going by at 12mph - not all new age music is slow tempo. And if you listen, a lot of the music has ebb and flow, tension and release, climax, etc.

You offer that you can't think of one multi-movement symphonic piece where all the movements are adagio. I'm trying to figure out what bearing that has on new age music? Most new age music are single pieces of music meant to be enjoyed as such. I don't know of any of it that comes in movements.

Wait, I'm just thinking of something. There are a few new age artists that do kinda drive me up a wall. They have found a "sound" and work it to death. There's not that much variety. One in particular, I'll talk about without naming. I really love his sound, but in truth, there is little variety in the CD I have of his music. Yes, he does in fact, seem to take a particular melodic theme and work it to death throughout the whole CD. The first track on the CD is slow and kinda contemplative and pretty and morose and sad sounding. The second is the same. The third is the same. The fifth, sixth, seventh… They're all different pieces of music, but pretty slow and by the time I've heard the 4th or 5th piece, I'm too depressed to listen to the rest of the CD.

There are some popular artists like this, also. A couple I can think of, but again, won't name. If you listen to their CDs there's no variety. The CD gets boring or irritating after a while.

There definitely is an art in the flow of music that you put on a CD. Or play at a concert. Or the music you play as a DJ. Or on the radio. You can have IMO too much of the same.

It can go the other way, also. I went to a concert recently where every single piece of music was SO FULL OF ENERGY, SO UPBEAT, it was emotionally exhausting. That is the ONLY concert I ever left at "half time". Likewise there's a danger in having too many slow pieces of music one after the other. People need a breather - "ebb and flow" is important. You need to mix it up.

There is another new age artist also, who plays very PRETTY melodic pieces. I very much like his style, also. But, again, the music never deviates from this one sound. And the one thing that really drove me up a wall is there is NEVER any PASSION, or FIRE to this one musician's music. After the 4th or 5th song, I felt like ripping the CD out of the CD player and smashing it up against the wall. \:D

HEY, MAYBE I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AFTER ALL, virtuosic? \:D At least on this one point. ??? Is any of what I'm saying resonating with you? Or are we still on totally different wave lengths???

I would like to say that ALL new age music is not the same. The music, as I said, that most commands my attention and respect, has ebb and flow, passion and fire. But I must also add, I see nothing wrong with a standalone piece of music that is slow paced, beautifully melodic and maybe doesn't deviate too much from that formula in that one piece of music. This does kinda get ruined IMO however, if it is followed by another and another and another and another without variation. That does become annoying to me.

On to something else - you said: "I guess New age afficionados paying good money to see a pianist of very limited skills play nothing more than triads and modes shouldn't surprise me."

virtuosic: beauty is in the "ear" of the beholder. can you understand that many of us find something beautiful and appealing and emotional in the music? When you say things like that, that's why I get the feeling that you are judging a piece of music on it's complexity. ???

As far as you saying that a pianist has very limited skills. What are you basing your judgment on? If you were to play a piece of music - one piece of music only- in public that was not particularly technically challenging to play, do you think it would be fair for those in the audience to come away with the opinion that you have very limited playing skills?

If the music you composed, for whatever reason, was not particularly technically challenging or complex in nature, is it fair to assume that pianist is UNABLE to play more technically advanced pieces of music? And to state unequivocally that the pianist has "limited skills?"


I'd like to add something my husband said today: "It's is possible to confuse mechanical talent with musical ability which can be two different things. Technical ability at something does not guarantee that the person appreciates the art form they are engaged in nor extend the art form by contributions of their own."

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134629 - 03/17/07 10:34 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
namekuseijin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 49
Loc: Brazil
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

There are those who believe that anything other than classical music (or their particular chosen type of music) is garbage.
[/b]
Yes, yes, a rap fan may think Chopin is for losers. But it doesn't matter much what people who enjoy garbage believe in: they are so entrenched in the junk they surround themselves into in order to feel there's more to their mediocre lifes that hardly their opinions will have any weight in deciding what survives to posterity...

We want to preserve our best to our grandsons and hide our worst from them. That's how the best works survive and transform into high art: by aiming high and correctly being identified by reasonable people to be quality stuff.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

There are those who think music that is embraced by the masses is too topical and therefore justifies as/must be junk.***
[/b]
It's not really a question of popularity, otherwise i'd despise such pieces as Moonlight Sonata or Liszt's 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody, as far as popular classical music goes.

It's a matter of overly simplism, carelessly crafted pieces of worthless fashionable works meant for the many careless ears of nowadays.

Don't forget most people who "enjoy" music actually just listen to it as an aid for either: concentrate on a subject; find love mates; social gathering. Really, most people don't care for the most abstract of arts, that's why the most popular are almost always accompanied by voice, lyrics, attitude and whatever, so that people has something concrete to relate to the sounds in the background. Very few people do in fact enjoy music by itself.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

It is also my understanding that many high level musical institutions of today look down upon melodic music
[/b]
I really have nothing against thoroughly enjoyable, beautiful melodic music. I just feel bad when the composer only offers the melody and little more. There gotta be some substance in there.

Mozart, Schubert, Chopin and Tchaikovsky are highly inventive melodic composers. But I feel of this bunch Tchaikovsky is the only one to have little to add to his beautiful and highly emotive melodies.
_________________________
tr~~

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#1134630 - 03/18/07 02:33 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by MLT:
Virtuosic1,

Just for your information, this discussion has re-started on another forum due to the nasty tone you seem to insist on propagating here. Please, for all our sake, don’t try and find it.
How about if I offer a huge reward for information leading to my finding that forum? \:D

 Quote:
To bad too. I’m sure you’re a good musician
Consider yourself being right about at least one thing.

 Quote:

OK Virtuosic, you’re the best pianist since Chopin, we believe you, now go outside and play. [/b]
You do realize that's actually four separate sentences. :rolleyes:
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134631 - 03/18/07 11:08 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
Two things I'd like to add to what I said.

I've offered some criticsm of some of the new age artists, two in particular whose music seems to build around a central theme and has little variation. I do still, however, like their music and respect their abilities to compose and to play the piano. Their music is appealing and emotional. And both of the new age artists I was speaking of, without naming them, have a style that is unique and original.

The other thing, is virtuosic you said that musical background should not affect a person's opinion of the music itself and I said I totally agree with that. The reason I offered information about one of the new age musician's musical training is because you also seem to be attacking these musician's abilities to play the piano.

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134632 - 03/18/07 11:26 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
The reason I offered information about one of the new age musician's musical training is because you also seem to be attacking these musician's abilities to play the piano.

Jeanne W [/QB]
I didn't attack anyone's abilities. I spoke on the facts themselves, specifically, the music. It's insipid. Nothing happens. It's like an 8 hour guided tour of a wheat field. The same thing over and over. A tropical garden with a stream, a beach, bird sanctuaries, wildlife, a lighthouse, etc., etc., would be far more interesting to enjoy, wouldn't it? Now, if you're a pianist/composer that is a master landscaper, capable of producing sweeping panoramas of spectacular beauty and variety with all the building materials available to you as well, why would you compose the same wheat fields over and over again, the only way to tell the differences between them by their size? Simple is OK. So is complex. Usually, there are proportionate elements of both, in varying degrees, within the same musical composition. Otherwise, it's nothing but a wheat field.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134633 - 03/18/07 11:49 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
quote:
________________________________________
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

There are those who believe that anything other than classical music (or their particular chosen type of music) is garbage.
________________________________________

namekuisjin replied:

"Yes, yes, a rap fan may think Chopin is for losers. But it doesn't matter much what people who enjoy garbage believe in: they are so entrenched in the junk they surround themselves into in order to feel there's more to their mediocre lifes that hardly their opinions will have any weight in deciding what survives to posterity..."
================================================

namekuisjin: Have you listened to rap music with an open mind and given the music a chance? Do you know much about rap music?

I don't like rap music myself, but I'm not ready to consider and call it "garbage" as you do. For a number of reasons.

I don't think I've given it a fair chance. I haven't listened to much of it, and don't know much about it. It sounds pretty "alien" to my ears and not to my liking.

But I take into consideration that I didn't grow up listening to rap, have not really been exposed to that kind of music and may never be able to develop an appreciation for it.

Granted, each person has his/her own musical taste, even if I gave rap music a fair chance, I may still just not like it.

Your comments about rap music brought to mind a few questions...

Is music that sounds different or alien to our ears fair grounds for labeling it as "trash"?

Is it fair to compare rap music to some other types of music that also sound fairly alien to our western ears? For instance, Japanese, Chinese, East Indian music and other ethnic music that originates in Eastern Europe and different places around the world. This kind of music is based on different types of musical scales and probably employs different rules of composition, as well. It sounds "foreign" and strange to us because we did not grow up in a culture hearing it.

Just because we are not accustomed to hearing a particular kind of music, and maybe never will develop an appreciation for it, or just simply don't like it, does that mean that music is of no value and necessarily "trash"? Is it trash because it doesn't adhere to "our" ideas of what music is or sounds like?

Is it constructive or fair to hold a narrow views of what music is/should be based on our own limited experience and exposure to only certain types of music?

Final thought: Some of the music we know and highly revere was in its day considered "new" and experimental and highly criticized for varying reasons. Some of the reasons for the criticsm was because the music didn't adhere to the musical standards of that time period.

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134634 - 03/18/07 11:59 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuosic1:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
The reason I offered information about one of the new age musician's musical training is because you also seem to be attacking these musician's abilities to play the piano.

Jeanne W [/b]
I didn't attack anyone's abilities. I spoke on the facts themselves, specifically, the music. [/QB]
==============================================

virtuosic1: you posted earlier:

=========================================
posted by virtuosic1:

"If you're constantly playing and composing at juvenile levels when you're capable of far more, why bother."
==================================================

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood you. What you said in that post, to me, sounded like an attack not only of one's ability to compose music but also on their playing abilities.

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134635 - 03/18/07 11:59 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
Music is organized sound. Even in silence, there is perceptible sound. Most classical, romantic, and jazz are on the higher end of the organizational spectrum. On the same scale, steam whistles, street noise, and rap occupy the bottom rungs of the musical evolutionary ladder, much like amoeba and other rudimentary 1 celled creatures in the organizational scheme of life.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134636 - 03/18/07 01:06 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
==================================
Posted by virtuosic1:

"Music is organized sound. Even in silence, there is perceptible sound. Most classical, romantic, and jazz are on the higher end of the organizational spectrum. On the same scale, steam whistles, street noise, and rap occupy the bottom rungs of the musical evolutionary ladder, much like amoeba and other rudimentary 1 celled creatures in the organizational scheme of life."
==================================================

virtuosic. I'm sorry, but I am leaving this conversation now. It is becoming tiresome and seems headed nowhere. Some of the things you say PW members would have been open to discuss with you and would have made for lively, interesting discussion. You make some valid points. Some of the things you say are factual, but some other things have more to do with your own personal likes and dislikes, your value judgements that don't necessarily hold water for the entire human race. And, unfortunately, you have an offensive way of expressing yourself.

Before I go, I'd like to say:

New Age music is NOT classical music.

I'm not sure it makes good sense, then, to compare it to classical music, and criticize it based on that criteria. That's like comparing impressionist paintings to those from the school of realism and pronouncing impressionist paintings "inferior" to the others.

New age music is what it is and should and can be appreciated for what it is.

Just because YOU prefer a different kind of type of music or fail to appreciate new age music - or country music, or rap or Japanese music or whatever kind of music - does not mean the other music is of no value, inferior, or whatever it is you are trying to say it is.

Some music is less complex or less organized, yes, that's factual. But the words you choose in discussing it seems to imply that less complex or less organized music equates to inferiority. Technically speaking, the music may be less complex, but that doesn't necessarily place it on the "bottom rungs of the musical evolutionary ladder, much like amoeba and other rudimentary 1 celled creatures in the organizational scheme of life." A less complex piece of music can have just as much to say, and evoke just as much emotion, as a more highly organized, and more complex piece of music.

You are speaking in absolutes, but much of what we are discussing is subjective.

I give up on you, virtuosic1. You can go on living in your own closeted world of music. Making value judgements of other peoples music; pronouncing which of it is "wheat fields" or or no value or whatever you want to call it or say about it. That it's a waste of time, whatever. Go on and continue judging and belittling other people's efforts at making music, music that is appreciated and loved by others.

My husband's take on this:

"People who so vehemently trash any type music based on the grounds of it not being complex enough, not being melodic enough, not fitting some supposed rules are showing basically they are narrow minded, are unable to appreciate that other people can enjoy things that perhaps they do not, and perhaps have an agenda that's behind the scenes. No music needs a defense and anyone who attacks music along such lines as these is showing such a narrow appreciation for music that you wonder if they're a musician at all or if they have some other agenda. Basically they have blinders on to the rest of the world of music. If this is an ego trip then, call it what it is."

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134637 - 03/18/07 01:30 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
And your rambling banter has nothing to do with your likes and dislikes? The problem here is that you are unable to understand my analogies.

In your topsy turvy world, where someone like Horowitz or Cziffra, in their prime, come out on stage, play 1 note, then bow and walk off to thunderous applause, I would be wondering, "Here's someone capable of alot more. This is what his concerts have been reduced to?", the same way as if Stephen Hawking decided to give up astrophysics and devote his life to the study of 1st grade mathematics. You rationalize, "Well, 1+1 = 2 is beautiful too, and I'm sure that there are many, like yourself, who find that simple equation positively charming", but why is a man that in all probability knows more about the Universe than any other living being performing rudimentary math now instead of pursuing his theoretical/mathematical exploration of black holes? Now, if once in awhile, he gave talks and worked some 1st grade math into his talks, I'm sure that his audience would tolerate his little idiosynchrosy, as long as he did talk about time, the big bang, and black holes eventually, otherwise if all he talked about was how nice it is that 1+1 =2, his audience would eventually change over from physicists, mathematicians, and astronomers to 1st graders and rubber-neckers with a morbid sense of curiosity.

I know this is going about 1000 miles over your head, and I know this by your failure to hear the differences between New Age pianists like Keith Jarrett and Kostia.

You should also inform your husband to spare the arm-chair psychiatry analyzing people that he doesn't know. I'm not vehemently trashing anybody. We're talking about simplicity vs. complexity here. Is a 50 foot building girder spray painted red a true work of art just because someone calls it art and likes staring at it from every conceivable angle, or is the Mona Lisa? My contention is that all music needs some type of symbiotic combination of both simplicity and complexity. You're the one vehemently trashing my opinions, which are based on music itself. Should I spare you the arm-chair psychiatry, or would you like to discuss your psychoses? Maybe you can consult your husband, the clinical psychologist beforehand, and then he and I can both confer your diagnosis. ;\)

**Editorial note: Oh boy. I'm sure this post will get me some new additions to my burgeoning "fan club". \:D
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134638 - 03/18/07 02:47 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
Virtuosic:

You say you have not trashed anyone's music or ability. Following are excerpts of your posts here in this thread. If you read through them, maybe you'll be able to figure out why people here think that, yes, you are trashing people's music and abilities and that many of us find what you have to say offensive.

=====================================================================
posted by virtuosic about various new age artists and their music:

…music that sounds like first assignment homework that a beginning composition student hands in to his professor? It's the type of music you usually hear when you walk into the Sam Ash keyboard.

I'll wager that anyone here on this forum that's played piano and read music for more than 6 months could turn out a dozen simple ditties like "*****" within a week's time. What's next? Twinkle Twinkle Little Star?

Anyone here can already write, or be quickly taught to write similar nursery rhyme compositions. The only difference between (artist's name removed due to respect to the artist) and someone on this Forum is that (artist's name removed) writes nonsense like this believing that he's an artist, but the only artistry he displays is his ability to convince someone else that he's an artist

…low octave left hand pedal points will sound just as pretty, yet remain just as trivial as anything (artist's name removed) has composed and recorded. That's because any tone on a well made concert grand, miked and recorded properly will sound pretty, not because (artist's name removed) strung musical elements together in any type of meaningful, creative, artistic way.

I'm simply flabbergasted that someone composing and performing such insipid music that any (and I do mean any) beginning composition student can write, and anyone that's completed the grade 1 book of any popular beginning piano course system can perform can sell concert tickets and CDs. This is "rap" for the piano. Music stripped down to its basic skeleton. His music is like exhibiting monochromatic, roller painted canvases, people paying to view the frames. Mediocrity for the sake of mediocrity.

The advantage of recording pieces like this is that if you're even a mediocre pianist/composer, with very limited skills, you could probably knock out 10 CDs worth of music per day.

Can any of these "New Age" pianists play anything else but simple modal noodling with broken triads as accompaniament?

The nauseating right hand single melody lines…

(Addressing a PW member): If you knew anything at all about piano, composition, or music in general, beyond the most rudimentary of elements, you would be able to speak about the music on a technical level instead of resorting to name calling. That's what a wuss does.

(Addressing a PW Member) Can you manage that, you ridiculous lightweight? Because if you can't do that, you've just illustrated that you're the little, whining schoolgirl here.

It seems as though… this type of "New Age" piano music has taken a giant leap backwards in utter simplicity. It sounds like piano tuning, not playing. Anyone can make this type of music without any formalized compositional or piano study whatsoever.

There's nothing wrong with liking this simplest of New Age piano any more than liking the sound of a set of wind chimes in a strong breeze and I never said there was anything wrong. I just called it what it is from its technical/structural level. Wind chimes for piano. Nothing more, nothing less.

As I listen to his tunes, I get the feeling that nobody is sitting at the keyboard.

It sounds like he's tuning the piano, not playing it.

Show me musically, why you think his little nursery rhymes are the works of a groundbreaking, unparalleled genius.

I didn't attack anyone's abilities. I spoke on the facts themselves, specifically, the music. It's insipid. Nothing happens. It's like an 8 hour guided tour of a wheat field.

…rap occup(ies) the bottom rungs of the musical evolutionary ladder, much like amoeba and other rudimentary 1 celled creatures in the organizational scheme of life.

(Addressing A PW Member) I know this is going about 1000 miles over your head…
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#1134639 - 03/18/07 03:50 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Van Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 1215
Loc: S. California
lol. Love it! One thing to be said for virtuosic, he doesn't indulge in carefully weighted ambiguities.

"8 hour guided tour of a wheat field"

...this is going in my scrap book of memorable sayings \:D
_________________________

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#1134640 - 03/18/07 07:16 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
Virtuosic:

You say you have not trashed anyone's music or ability. Following are excerpts of your posts here in this thread. If you read through them, maybe you'll be able to figure out why people here think that, yes, you are trashing people's music and abilities and that many of us find what you have to say offensive.

=====================================================================
posted by virtuosic about various new age artists and their music:

…music that sounds like first assignment homework that a beginning composition student hands in to his professor? It's the type of music you usually hear when you walk into the Sam Ash keyboard.

I'll wager that anyone here on this forum that's played piano and read music for more than 6 months could turn out a dozen simple ditties like "*****" within a week's time. What's next? Twinkle Twinkle Little Star?

Anyone here can already write, or be quickly taught to write similar nursery rhyme compositions. The only difference between (artist's name removed due to respect to the artist) and someone on this Forum is that (artist's name removed) writes nonsense like this believing that he's an artist, but the only artistry he displays is his ability to convince someone else that he's an artist

…low octave left hand pedal points will sound just as pretty, yet remain just as trivial as anything (artist's name removed) has composed and recorded. That's because any tone on a well made concert grand, miked and recorded properly will sound pretty, not because (artist's name removed) strung musical elements together in any type of meaningful, creative, artistic way.

I'm simply flabbergasted that someone composing and performing such insipid music that any (and I do mean any) beginning composition student can write, and anyone that's completed the grade 1 book of any popular beginning piano course system can perform can sell concert tickets and CDs. This is "rap" for the piano. Music stripped down to its basic skeleton. His music is like exhibiting monochromatic, roller painted canvases, people paying to view the frames. Mediocrity for the sake of mediocrity.

The advantage of recording pieces like this is that if you're even a mediocre pianist/composer, with very limited skills, you could probably knock out 10 CDs worth of music per day.

Can any of these "New Age" pianists play anything else but simple modal noodling with broken triads as accompaniament?

The nauseating right hand single melody lines…

(Addressing a PW member): If you knew anything at all about piano, composition, or music in general, beyond the most rudimentary of elements, you would be able to speak about the music on a technical level instead of resorting to name calling. That's what a wuss does.

(Addressing a PW Member) Can you manage that, you ridiculous lightweight? Because if you can't do that, you've just illustrated that you're the little, whining schoolgirl here.

It seems as though… this type of "New Age" piano music has taken a giant leap backwards in utter simplicity. It sounds like piano tuning, not playing. Anyone can make this type of music without any formalized compositional or piano study whatsoever.

There's nothing wrong with liking this simplest of New Age piano any more than liking the sound of a set of wind chimes in a strong breeze and I never said there was anything wrong. I just called it what it is from its technical/structural level. Wind chimes for piano. Nothing more, nothing less.

As I listen to his tunes, I get the feeling that nobody is sitting at the keyboard.

It sounds like he's tuning the piano, not playing it.

Show me musically, why you think his little nursery rhymes are the works of a groundbreaking, unparalleled genius.

I didn't attack anyone's abilities. I spoke on the facts themselves, specifically, the music. It's insipid. Nothing happens. It's like an 8 hour guided tour of a wheat field.

…rap occup(ies) the bottom rungs of the musical evolutionary ladder, much like amoeba and other rudimentary 1 celled creatures in the organizational scheme of life.

(Addressing A PW Member) I know this is going about 1000 miles over your head… [/b]
Sadly, every comment here is all too true. Please feel free to quote me on any of these pearls of wisdom anytime you'd like.
\:D

You seem to be completely missing the points I'm making. Everybody that produces sound in some organized manner, from the nervous arrhythmic tapping of someone's pencil top on a school desk during an SAT test to a highly trained piano virtuoso is technically a musician. But they are not all great musicians simply because they are producing sound. From the comments I've read in this thread, I suspect there are some that would prefer the tappings of the pencil to an Art Tatum improvisation, or a Sorabji Pastiche, but that doesn't necessarily make the pencil tapping a brilliant composition and musical work of art.
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134641 - 03/18/07 08:33 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
classicalplayer Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/16/07
Posts: 13
Loc: Europe
Hi,

I think, Virtuosic1, that the so called "musical fools" you are refering to, may even agree with you, at least I do ;\) , nevertheless they have, as anybody, their right to promote their own likes and dislikes independent of your high standards; I belive words like "genius" and "great work of art" don`t have the same authoritative meaning in an internettforum like this, as it does in an academic or professional discourse; it may be you don`t fully recognise the democratic principle in this forum.

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#1134642 - 03/18/07 08:36 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Mike A Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 520
Loc: So.Cal.USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuosic1:
Everybody that produces sound in some organized manner, from the nervous arrhythmic tapping of someone's pencil top on a school desk during an SAT test to a highly trained piano virtuoso is technically a musician. But they are not all great musicians simply because they are producing sound. From the comments I've read in this thread, I suspect there are some that would prefer the tappings of the pencil to an Art Tatum improvisation, or a Sorabji Pastiche, but that doesn't necessarily make the pencil tapping a brilliant composition and musical work of art. [/b]
And, it might equally be said, the fact that something is played by a highly trained piano virtuoso doesn't necessarily make the result a brilliant composition or a musical work of art. Technique for technique's sake is more diverting than tapping for tapping's sake, but only briefly. Neither has heart.

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#1134643 - 03/19/07 11:19 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mike A:
 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuosic1:
Everybody that produces sound in some organized manner, from the nervous arrhythmic tapping of someone's pencil top on a school desk during an SAT test to a highly trained piano virtuoso is technically a musician. But they are not all great musicians simply because they are producing sound. From the comments I've read in this thread, I suspect there are some that would prefer the tappings of the pencil to an Art Tatum improvisation, or a Sorabji Pastiche, but that doesn't necessarily make the pencil tapping a brilliant composition and musical work of art. [/b]
And, it might equally be said, the fact that something is played by a highly trained piano virtuoso doesn't necessarily make the result a brilliant composition or a musical work of art. Technique for technique's sake is more diverting than tapping for tapping's sake, but only briefly. Neither has heart. [/b]
Here's a whole lot of technique for technique's sake, it has alot of heart, it cooks, and it's interesting chorus after chorus:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KlUzK4Ua1iY
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

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#1134644 - 03/19/07 12:37 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
namekuseijin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 49
Loc: Brazil
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

namekuisjin: Have you listened to rap music with an open mind and given the music a chance?
[/b]
Yes, I used to listen to a lot of Public Enemy and other junk in my rebel hormonal years as a teen.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

Do you know much about rap music?
[/b]
I know it's not music: it's attitude, contestation, bad lyrics, lots of dancing, lots of posing, white clothes and the likes. Not music at all.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

But I take into consideration that I didn't grow up listening to rap, have not really been exposed to that kind of music and may never be able to develop an appreciation for it.
[/b]
You don't come to "develop an appreciation" for garbage. Either you're so entrenched into it that you don't know any better or you're out of your mind, like many indeed are.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

Is music that sounds different or alien to our ears fair grounds for labeling it as "trash"?

Is it fair to compare rap music to some other types of music that also sound fairly alien to our western ears? For instance, Japanese, Chinese, East Indian music and other ethnic music that originates in Eastern Europe and different places around the world.
[/b]
Not at all. I actually enjoy Chinese and Japanese traditional music a lot: I hear a lot of solo guqin or koto pieces evertime I can get my hands at. I also enjoy the way japanese composers for animés and videogames blend traditional with western classical influences.

I like well developed music, like these traditions also display regardless of harmonic differences.
_________________________
tr~~

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#1134645 - 03/19/07 12:56 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by namekuseijin:
I know it's not music: it's attitude, contestation, bad lyrics, lots of dancing, lots of posing, white clothes and the likes. Not music at all.

[/QB]
You forgot phat booty clapping, grills, and pimp cups.

Yeah Boyyyyyyyyy!
\:D
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

Top
#1134646 - 03/19/07 02:00 PM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
Mike A Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 520
Loc: So.Cal.USA

Top
#1134647 - 03/20/07 09:35 AM Re: Getting into New Age piano music...
virtuosic1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 523
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mike A:
[/b]
That must have been a "New age" post. \:D
_________________________
My version of Lennie Tristano's "Scene and Variation":

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

A downloadable file with examples of my jazz improvising (Accompaniament on Fender Rhodes, lead lines on Acoustic piano):

http://d.turboupload.com/d/229801/R1_0001.MP3.html

Top
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