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#113580 - 02/09/09 10:52 AM Petrof Model III vs Yamaha C3
mdjenkins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 9
Loc: SC
My wife and I are looking to purchase a grand Piano. My wife plays and my sons are learning currently. We have been around and have played multiple pianos and my wife finds that she likes the sound and feel of Petrof the best. We found a Petrof Model III listed for 17,900 but my concern is that the store is no longer a Petrof dealer (and was somewhat misleading about this point). The piano is new but I have to find out what year it was made. Is this price high for what is likely a 2-3 yr old Model III and should I be concerned about warranty coverage if purchasing from someone who is not a authorized Petrof dealer (they were but lost it during that whole fiasco with the distributor).
Finally, my wife's second choice is Yamaha and I found a new C3 for 23,000. Is there anything about these two pianos that might sway you one way or the other.
Thanks

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#113581 - 02/09/09 05:33 PM Re: Petrof Model III vs Yamaha C3
Gary at Encore Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/09
Posts: 250
Loc: Dallas, TX
Our store sells the Petrof III for around $28,000. Fine lists the price as $32,780. So you have been quoted a wonderful closeout price. The Petrof sound is much different than a Yamaha. Many people, like your wife, much prefer the European sound and touch which the Petrofs have. I would not have fears about the warranty. But if you want to talk to the Petrof importer then call Al Rich the Petrof USA CEO. His email is alrich@petrofusa.com
You have found a truly wonderful piano at a wonderful, once in a lifetime, price.
_________________________
Bluthner, Steingraeber, Pleyel, Hailun, Kemble, Baldwin, Story and Clark, Pearl River, Ritmuller and others (store owner)www.encore-pianos.com

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#113582 - 02/09/09 05:37 PM Re: Petrof Model III vs Yamaha C3
mdjenkins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 9
Loc: SC
Checked the serial numbers and it turns out it is a 2002 P3- still a once in a lifetime deal?

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#113583 - 02/09/09 06:05 PM Re: Petrof Model III vs Yamaha C3
Gary at Encore Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/09
Posts: 250
Loc: Dallas, TX
I would think so. Please know that a piano needs a year or two after it is made to stabilize and hold a tuning and regulation for extended times. So the first few years the piano, which is made of wood, which adjusts, and strings with stretch, just gets better. If the piano has not been played a great deal then it is better than a new one. If the piano is currently well regulated, meaning that it plays with an even touch and with the touch that your wife likes, and it is well voiced, meaning that the hammers have been carefully worked on to yield the even tones and amount of brightness that your wife likes, then it is a great deal. If there is some thing lacking in regulation and voicing, then have the store or a RPT work on the piano. Even if this costs you a few hundred dollars it still sounds to me like a deal of a lifetime.
_________________________
Bluthner, Steingraeber, Pleyel, Hailun, Kemble, Baldwin, Story and Clark, Pearl River, Ritmuller and others (store owner)www.encore-pianos.com

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#113584 - 02/09/09 06:14 PM Re: Petrof Model III vs Yamaha C3
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
2004, 05, or 06 manufacture for an old 'new' Petrof would seem completely reasonable. OTOH, 2002 is quite a while ago.

A piano can be sold as 'new' as long as it has NOT BEEN SOLD previously. It can be sold as new even if it has seen some sort of loan or demo use. A good dealer would disclose that, but might not volunteer it unless asked.

Because of that, I would be looking into where that piano might have spent time other than that dealer's showroom and I would be paying out of pocket for a tech to inspect it. I would also be e-mailing Petrof in Europe directly about the provenance and the warranty since the warranty issued to you would likely be a GIC certificate and GIC is not the current distributor. You would need to give Petrof the exact serial number.

If everything checks out, the price is good, but not the opportunity of a lifetime. Life is so great that those opportunities come up every other day. \:D

I really like the P III personally, but the C3 has a lot going for it if you are content with its simpler tone profile.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#113585 - 02/09/09 07:34 PM Re: Petrof Model III vs Yamaha C3
mdjenkins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 9
Loc: SC
Spoke with Petrof- because this piano was distributed under GIC, they will only honor the warranty 5yrs after date of manufacturing- thus it is no longer covered under warranty. Given this information, would you all suggest pursuing this any further and, if so, do you think a lower price is warranted given the absence of warranty coverage?

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#113586 - 02/09/09 08:06 PM Re: Petrof Model III vs Yamaha C3
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by mdjenkins:
Spoke with Petrof- because this piano was distributed under GIC, they will only honor the warranty 5yrs after date of manufacturing- thus it is no longer covered under warranty. Given this information, would you all suggest pursuing this any further and, if so, do you think a lower price is warranted given the absence of warranty coverage? [/b]
Great follow-up mdjenkins!

The information you received from your inquiry to Petrof should be helpful to many buyers in your position. Since you have nothing at all in the way of a warranty, in your position I would disclose Petrof's answer to the retailer offering the leftover P III and tell him that the complete lack of any warranty is a major concern for you.

If the offered price is not lowered considerably, I would move on. If it is lowered to a level that offsets in your mind the lack of warranty, I would ask the retailer where the piano has spent its life the last seven years and how it was used. If you're satisfied by that answer, I'd recommend paying for a tech inspection. With no warranty of any kind, this would be crucial.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#113587 - 02/09/09 08:14 PM Re: Petrof Model III vs Yamaha C3
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10335
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
 Quote:
Originally posted by turandot:
A piano can be sold as 'new' as long as it has NOT BEEN SOLD previously. It can be sold as new even if it has seen some sort of loan or demo use. A good dealer would disclose that, but might not volunteer it unless asked.
[/b]
Even further, my understanding that is is illegal to omit a material fact in the history of the instrument. Being a "loaner", IMHO would certainly require disclosure.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#113588 - 02/09/09 09:21 PM Re: Petrof Model III vs Yamaha C3
mdjenkins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 9
Loc: SC
Thanks- I really appreciate the input! I will let you know what I find out

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#113589 - 02/10/09 05:06 PM Re: Petrof Model III vs Yamaha C3
mdjenkins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 9
Loc: SC
Spoke with store and per their report the piano has not been out of the store. They claimed the piano was a 2005-2006 until I found out from Petrof that it was a 2002. Hard to imagine that it has been just sitting around the showroom for six years but I guess it's possible. In any event, they were not willing to negotiate the price any further.
Again, I am curious- if priced the same, which piano is considered better quality? Petrof P3 or Yamaha C3? I know they have different tonal qualities and it really depends on player preference, but is one considered better quality than another? Would one be considered a better buy than another if the price was equal?(22k)

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#113590 - 02/10/09 06:04 PM Re: Petrof Model III vs Yamaha C3
swampwiz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 561
Loc: Louisiana, USA
mdjenkins, what is the serial number?

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#113591 - 02/10/09 06:16 PM Re: Petrof Model III vs Yamaha C3
windsound Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 177
Loc: IL
A 2002 Petrof is hardly considered as a "new one". Frankly speaking, I don't think the dealer has no correct knowledge about the age and I am very surprised that "They claimed the piano was a 2005-2006".

Probably it is a better option to check with more dealers in your area. Yamaha C3 is an excellent piano and it does not cost $23K in my area.

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#113592 - 02/10/09 06:39 PM Re: Petrof Model III vs Yamaha C3
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
mdj
Steve Cohen gave you this answer yesterday on your other thread. I think it covers all the bases.

 Quote:
originally posted by Steve Cohen
Yamaha C3s have a bell-like tone and great action, however the Petrof has more tonal color.
For power and/or jazz players the Yamaha would likely please. For those who stress expression Petrof is a great value.

[/b]
Now, Steve wasn't talking about a seven-year-old 'new' piano which the dealer claimed was only three or four years old. Nor was Steve talking about a piano with absolutely no warranty: a fact which the dealer failed to mention. If this guy won't budge on price, just move on.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#113593 - 02/10/09 08:26 PM Re: Petrof Model III vs Yamaha C3
chihuahua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 391
Loc: An Oligarchy
No warranty is ... scary! What if something pops up after sales???

_________________________
Nepotism: We promote family values here - almost as often as we promote family members.

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