In that case, I revise my earlier reply (and really, it was a mean-spirited reply - I don't know what got into me) - play with anyone and everyone, no matter how bad, and get your name out there. If you're good, you'll get invitations to play with better performers. I'd never say no to a gig if gigs are hard to get - especially to a paid gig at a wedding. In fact, I've only once said no to a gig, and it was because I had exams at the same time. Curse this law school.

When I go to ragtime festivals, I play with everyone, regardless of level (in fact, one of my favorite things to do is to drag the intermediate-level or beginner players to the piano to play duets with me), and I never say no to a gig. The more exposure I get for my music, the better; but also, I want to be known as someone who is easy and pleasant to deal with on a personal level. That matters. The way you deal with people does get noticed, and music can be a very small world sometimes. The musicians in the community you're trying to enter will hear whether or not you're good, even if the other performers are mediocre. And they will also be able to see that you don't have any weird hang-ups, that you can play with anyone and make them sound good, and that you're dependable and reliable and all those other things. It all matters.

jazz+

Chinese

Larisa

thats a very good point. Lately I am starting to realize that a good social skill will take you much further than your actual play ability. I've been getting more and more calls lately and it has more to do with the fact that they know me as a person now than how I play.

They did like my playing when I first met them, but I guess people weren't sure if I was going to be town much longer. Now that I know these people more, they have been more helpful. I guess I can make assesment as to who I want to be working with on a regular basis once I've met enough people.

And you're right, I did end up meeting better musicians through these not so good musicians.. and the good musicians dont really judge you based on how you play with the not so good musicians, because they've been there and they know what its like.

HK?

Hotel gigs...and it must be tough to get into the Chinese wedding gigs, different music I bet.

its weird out here for hotel gig.. what they mean by jazz is not anything like what we know about jazz. Some of the jazz here is... embarassing to listen to.

It's hard to get into hotel gigs if you don't know the right people.. because the people who play 'legit' jazz and the people who play wedding/hotel jazz are two different groups of people.

Oh, interesting! I have a jazz pianist friend in Shanghai; where are you located?

The other thing that people watch for, by the way, is whether you can make a mediocre player sound good by playing with them. There are a few ragtime players I know who can make anyone sound good by playing duets with them. I'm a fairly average player, but when I sit down with one of those guys, the result is spectacular.

So as you're playing with the mediocre musicians, think about how you could make the band sound better; think of it as a challenge, maybe? How artfully can you cover when the sax player gets the chord change wrong? How well can you adjust when the drummer speeds up or slows down erratically? If you can do that, you'll be worth your weight in gold to any band, and any musician listening to you will know that.

Incidentally, having a bit more confidence in your abilities will help too. You must be pretty good if you're getting that kind of gigs - so don't worry about the mediocre players dragging you down. You're good enough to drag them up.

As a teacher, it takes alot to leave my cheese out in the wind. I'm a patient man by nature, just slobbering over with patience, but under the surface of all that patience, there's a dark side. A seething, pulsating reservoir of magma just waiting for a vent to escape to the surface.

I'm always very patient with mediocre players if I have the misfortune to run into them in a working enviroment. I'm patient with them, until it's time to not be patient, at which point I become impatient, somewhat belligerent, and then there are repercussions, which range from an impromptu pow-wow of confrontationally brutal honesty to my walking out after having my say.

BJones,

haha that is funny.. but you are right.. I had people who told me honestly when I was out of line in my playing too... it sucks, but at the same time it got me fired up to fix whatever problem i was having.

Larisa,

Thanks. I was feeling insecure about my playing lately because I stopped playing for over an year because of tendonitis. I really felt out of shape.. and I felt really off when I started playing again. You are right, trusting in your ability is important, and I am more at ease with my self knowing that it will take some time to build my chops back. You never know who will call you for gig, so its important to stay in touch and network.

btw i've seen piano players do incredible feats with some horrible singers.. one singer called of a tune in one key and started singing in completely different key.. and she had no sense of time and the piano basically had to figure out where she was based on the words she was singing.. if it wasn't for that experienced pianist, it would have been a complete train wreck.

Afterwards the singer told the piano player how great he was and asked if he was interested in working with here.. he kindly told her that he was just too busy...

Tendonitis and realted maladies are a terrible thing and can be a recurring problem.
I work as a teacher, studio musician, and arranger, not as a pianist, only because I only play when I can play. When in pain, I don't play, just write at those times.
Sometimes I can play (the way I like to play), only for 10 minutes in a day. Other times, an hour or more, and sometimes, not for several days, if whatever I've got in there is aggravated.
I've been to doctors, therapists, chiropractics, you name it. They all came to the same conclusion. We don't know why, could be a touch of arthritis in there.
If I keep playing when tender, the fingers swell and recuperation takes almost a week without playing. Away from the piano I'm strong as a bull. never a problem unsticking frozen jar lids or with my grip, arm, and finger power.
I'm completely relaxed at the keyboard, my teacher is a master of teaching proper technique and he cannot see one trace of anything in my playing that would trigger the aggravation.
I teach proper technique to my students and not one of them has ever experienced a similar problem.

I was a little stiff today, so tomorrow I'll avoid the keybaord and on Sat, no doubt I'll be loose again! Strange. I'm used to it and have adapted my work practices and limitations due to it.

Bjones,

I am sorry to hear about your problems.. it was shocking to find out how many people were having problems at school. its not something that is talked about, and I wish school did more to raise awareness about this very important issue... because almost everyone who practiced seriously had problems.

my teacher said similar things about the hands.. there are so much we dont really know about how our body works. i know my problem was a result of bad teachers with bad advice & overstraining myself practicing 6-10 hrs a day.. out of insecurity and negative attitude, out of fear that i started so late,

I guess the good thing is that I am much more delibrate when I practice, and I am much happier about the progress I am making.. and I had to unlearn a lot of things that i was taught. ..

It was a revelation to find out how effortless piano playing can be... I am learning schubert's Eb major impromptu and i realized that the key to speed is relaxation.. my practice is soley focused on doing less to produce more, to find that place in me where the complex fast line becomes easy.

Most that suffer from this can make adjustments in a pedagogical gliche that is causing it and in time allevaite it altogether.

I fall into the rarer category of those that are executing with maximum ease and relaxation though some physiological subtlety, that is, ididosynchrosy in the hands or nearby playing menchanism is triggering ill effect that wouldn't be experienced from any other activity not involving the rapid depression of keys.

To me, it's a mystery what the root of the cause is as no medical or physical professional has been able to pinpoint the cause. Others may have similar effects due to some type of rheumatic, circulatory, nerve, muscular, etc., etc. problem or imbalance, which of course is only triggered by piano playing.

Anyway, the upside is that because I must limit my play, I'm not afforded the time to run into even more bad musicians on club dates and jam sessions than I already do in the studio and on arranging sessions, which has probably contributed to keeping me out of jail. There's a Yang for every Yin.

I have had tenosinivitis in both wrists since I was in the third grade. It first hit me from playing too much tennis.
The synovial sleeves that surround the tendons become inflamed. This is a result of the friction of the tendons sliding against the inner linings of the sheaths surrounding them. The linings become rough and gritty on a molecular level. When its aggravated I get swelling and that increases the level of friction. There is nothing that can be done except rest, MSM (sulfar tablets), warm water soaking, gentle stretching, and ibuprofen. Also try to play light action keyboards and avoid playing too percussivly or a lot of fast notes. Keep it simple and light when sore. Many people told me they cured the problem by having surgery that scraped away linings so new fresh ones could grow back. I presume it removes years of built up scar tissue.

I'm very familiar with this problem, and probably know more about hand structure and maladies at this point than most physicians!

Some TSV can be greatly aided by seeing an A.R.T. therapist, usually a chiropractor that has studied and is very adept at Active Release Therapy. It's a deep message technique that breaks up adhesions and scar tissue while stretching and movind tendons and muscles through specific ranges of motion.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work for me. Nothing does except not playing until the hands cool down.

Alot of lateral finger motion, especially stretching for large aggregates of 5 to 9 notes per hand exacerbate the problem more quickly than single note play.

Thanks. I tried A.R.T. with many practioners and unfortuneatly it doesn't work for me either.

It seemed to work on me at first, some temporary relief during a bad bout of inflammation, but it wasn't long lasting.

Luckily, I do play organ (have an old Hammond C3) and use light action electronic keyboards in the studio which don't have as much ill effect as the heavier action keyboards that I really prefer.

On them, I have more playing time available between down-times.

One doctor I went to was a pianist. I brought in a keyboard and played some short examples for him, telling him what hurt the most (hands already aggravated).
He said, "maybe if you didn't play so many notes, so rapidly....". I told him, "if I don't play what I hear, there's no reason to play, aside from work".

How easy is this guy to get along with?

I'll play with someone who is unskilled, but is good to work with. But if they're a jerk, I'm gone no matter how good they are. (I don't have to put up with it, I don't make my living that way.)

And, I have to admit, I've been hired or asked to play a number of times because I was easier to get along with than the more skilled but more difficult next guy.

Yes, I too will skip the great players who are not easy to get along with and go instead with the okay players who are easy going. But I will still totally avoid the not good players unless I am highly paid.

My problem is that whether high paid or not, I'm so damned good that I consider everyone a mediocre player...




... including myself!

.

I dunno; I am generally so thrilled to be playing music at all that I'll play with anyone. I had really bad tendinitis when I was 15, which caused a lot of damage to my hand, so I basically quit music for 10 years, and thought that my musical life was over. I am so thrilled to have been able to make a comeback that any time I get to play, anything at all, with anyone at all, is a blessing.

And yes, I have to limit my playing time as well, though I seem to be doing OK with 2-hour practice sessions these days, which excites me to no end. My technique is not fully back to what it used to be, and I'm not sure if it ever will be. But I don't care - as long as I can still play, and as long as I get to lead some kind of musical life, I'm ecstatic.

Yes. Your technique can improve. What you and I, and many others have, doesn't usually limit the facility of the fingers at the keyboard. If you listen to any of my audio files in my post signature, you'll note that when I can play, my technical ability is near the top of the pianistic spectrum. Unfotunately, our condition limits the amount of time that can be spent playing before aggravation occurs, resulting in down time for the hands to cool off. Sometime that down time is a day, sometimes two days, sometimes much longer.

Have you had your condition medically evaluated?

Dave Ferris

Yea that was what jam session at school was a lot like.. it was fun because you were around musicians you could trust, and they were in the same level of proficiency & thinking about the same things. Back then we were working on how to play more free rhythmically as a rhythm section.

You weren't feeling dragged down by other people but at the same time you weren't completely lost because the drummer played like Ari Hoenig. It was also fun because people actually listened to each each other and you weren't treated like an abersold. btw I usually stop playing when horn plays starts playing too many choruses

I really miss that about the guys I knew in school..we were all working together to improve and explore ideas, way beyond the crap the teachers were teaching us. It was a great space for all of us to try new things and not be afraid of screwing up.

Larisa,

I stopped playing for about 1 1/2 and I know what you mean... sometimes we get too worked up about being good, or making it that we forget the fun in it. I do have fun playing with people, even the music is not necessary what I want to play. I want to be able to do more musically and I see much further.. listening to keith jarrett's trio, Brad Mehldau, etc and their interaction inspires me, and that's something i practice for.. but most people i know are happy where they are and I can't really expect more out of that.

So i take it for what it is. sure its not that the most exciting thing to play night and day with walking bass line and high hat on good old 2 & 4, but at least I am playing with competent musicians, and for most people and non-musicians, being able to do that is a big deal.

Oh yes. The doctors did a lot more harm than good, in fact. The first doctor I saw, at age 15, gave me a cortisone shot so badly that he caused a ganglion cyst in my wrist; it's pressing on my ulnar nerve and causing a bit of weakness in my fourth and fifth finger. Another "doctor" put my hand in a splint that was badly designed and tore a ligament in my wrist. In fact, I think I've only dealt with one competent doctor throughout the 10 years of hand aggravation. After the last bit of medical malpractice, I forswore medical attention, and now treat all my hand angst with rest, ice, aspirin, and warm water soaking.

I'm really hoping my technique comes back. At my best, I used to play Liszt. I'm not quite back to that yet, but I now think I can get there, eventually. Alas, I'm in "downtime" mode right now - just played in a musical, which involved huge amounts of practice time and rehearsal time and stuff like that, and that was too much. Ah well.

Ice and cold water are better if your circulation is normal. Warm water can increase soft tissue inflammation.
Gentle stretching of the wrists, the arm outstretched, fingers gently stretched downward by the other hand (GENTLY!) thereby stretchin the wrists can also help. Unfortunately, aside from tylenol or naprosin (anti-inflammatories), there's not much more than that.


Stretch:

http://www.frixo.com/sites/fitness/exercises/pics/wrist1.jpg

Remember; gently!

MAKE HIM THE BAND MANAGER.

Better yet, make him the musical director!

Don't do it unless you truly will feel it and put on a good performance!