I am sure a lot of you guys have dealt with musicians that were.. iffy at best in their abilities. I don't want to sound like I am full of it, because I don't think I am that great, but there are several occasions where I ended up playing with ppl who had serious problems in their playing.

It has happen recently at a jam session, I just moved back home after college, and I met this drummer who wanted to work with me after playing couple of tunes at a jam session. His playing seemed awkward, but I gave him a benefit of the doubt and decided to do a rehearsal with him.. who knows maybe he was having an off night.

After one rehearsal it became clear to me that there's something wrong with his playing. His timing/feel is really off and awkward and it was driving me nuts.

He is very enthusiastic and he's already booked a good paying wedding gig. He wants to do more as a band & rehearse more..the problem is I am not sure how to deal with this situation..if its a good paying gig its one thing but if its a gig at a venue that is more about the music, then I really don't want to work with him.. He asked for horn players, and I called the ones I knew and nobody wanted to work with him either.

So how do you deal with situation like this? I personally wouldn't have a problem playing with him, if his playing was at least functional.. but it really isn't. And I don't have it in me to just tell him what the problem is..

Its strange how some people can be so oblivious to their problem when it's obvious to everyone else. I've met bass players who had really awkward note choice and you could never hear the changes at all.. and I've met horn players who had absolutely no concept of time and yet they complain about how everyone else's time is off.. and we are just shaking our heads thinking what in the world is wrong on with this guy.

The strangest thing is that some of these people have been playing for years.. how do they manage to be so off the track and stay that way?

I've had a similar experiences. I try to follow a simple rule which is that I will usually play with anybody if I am earning at least $100 an hour, with a 2 hour minimum. I will be wearing earplugs too to take the edge off of things.... Otherwise I will only play with people I enjoy playing with.

btw I understand people having weakness that they need to work on.. that is understandable, but for some people it's way beyond weakness.. even a beginner doing something simple can sound better than that.

I remember being at a jam session and we're playing take the a train... the saxophone player got so frustrated at the bass player, he started yelling "darn it, the first chord of that tune is C, it always have been C, so play the Darn C for god's sake!!"..

there was another time a different bass player (whos been playing for couple of years) was struggling to play My Funny valentine, even though the chart was in front of in, and the piano actually had to tell him not to get up on the stage and play if you dont know the changes as they were playing. I can understand why the piano player was not happy, because they're stuck playing with that guy for the next 5 minutes.

Jazz+

Yea, I can understand that, and I probably would have found an excuse to bail out of this rehearsal if it wasn't for the fact that he's got me in a wedding gig that pays almost $200. So how do you go about saying no? do you just keep on finding excuses until the guy just gives up?

Perhaps they are staying off track is because everyone does what you do:
etcetra:

Seriously...if a person can't play, yet has the hutzpah to go out and play, then what can you do?

1. Choose to play with them, and be miserable.

2. Choose not to play with them.

3. Tell them they stink, and make an enemy.

4. If you opt for choice #1, you will not only be miserable, but you will damage your reputation. People will say, "etcetra plays with lousy players...maybe he/she is lousy too,"

I personally will not play with such people, because doing so will not only harm my reputation among the good players, it will also potentially make my playing worse.

Anonymous quote: "Always play with people who are better than you, and avoid if possible playing with those who are significantly worse".

I would say I don't do rehearsals, only paid gigs. For weddings the first hour ceremony minimum is $200 and each additional hour of the reception is $100 per hour. The ceremony is usually just solo classical piano. That's how I have operated for years.

I think it won't harm your reputation playing casuals with bad players because nobody will know about it except you. Remember to wear ear plug filters to help take the edge of the bad music. I use custom molded musicians filters on all gigs. They give a -25db cut, it takes the edge off and I love them. I wouldn't want to work without them.

I'm only a beginner, and only sometimes play with some beginner guitar players. Since I see the metronome as Satan's creation, I rarely [read: never] used it, and thought I will have problems if playing with others. However, simple rhytms are easy to catch and to remain on beat if you listen to the others. One thing I noticed: sometimes we are too preocupied with what we are playing, rather than what sounds as a whole. We found that really listening to the others, we rarely get off-beat. Maybe that is the problem with your drummer: he can be way too self-absorbed. Try at a rehearsal to talk with him about it. Just explain with something along the lines of 'hey man, listen to the music. It's not dum-da-da-dum-da-da-dum, it's more like da-da-dum-da-da-dum'. If talking doesn't work, try using a metronome to show him the error of his ways. If that doesn't work, well, I don't know.

[Sorry for my awkward use of English]

rocket88,

yea I guess I took a lot of playing occasions I normally wouldn't because I was new in town and meeting people... and I regret doing a lot of that. It's funny though, because I met other guys who are new in town and we share stories about working with so and so and how much of a train wreck it is. that horrible experience became a common bond.


btw the problem is that a lot of people stay that way even after others tell them whats wrong with them.. i mean you would think the bass player would have the humility to not get up and play a tune he doesn't know after that, but he kept on coming back and do the same thing.

I agree, putting up with people just doesn't help you at all, and it does make you worse.

This reminds me, I got stuck with a really crummy combo once at school.. I guess the teacher was trying mix beginners with more experienced student.. and the reasoning behind that is that "in real life you'll have to deal with players who are weaker than you".. but I kept on thinking, how on earth would someone who has trouble playing Bb blues be getting any kind of real world gig?? It has happened to all my friends who could play, every single on of them quit combo after they took the required amount to graduate.

I am actually on the other end of this sort of thing, alas. Our school is putting on a musical ("Little Shop of Horrors"), and I ended up in the band. I normally only play classical and ragtime piano, so I had a lot of trouble at first. I think that at the first few rehearsals, the other band members wanted to kill me.

But at least, I could tell that my playing stunk, so I spent hours and hours and hours in the practice room, listened to as many recordings of the musical as I could think of, and now I'm improving. And kicking myself for getting involved in this whole thing - but that's another story.

Etcetra, I think you should just tell him. Otherwise, you'll be dooming yourself to a whole series of awkward experiences and terrible playing. Besides, I'm sure he knows already. There's no need to be insulting or unpleasant about it, but just tell him you can't play with him. That's all. Or tell him to practice more, if you think it'll help.

galex,

Personally, as a professional musician who does about 150 casuals a year, I will not spend time trying to coach players with rhythm problems unless they pay me as an instructor. Why should it be otherwise?

J+

I disagree with the "tell him" approach. Professionals usually make no comment to other musicans unless they have something good to say. No comment is enough. If the person is a friend then you could say something like "You need to work on your time." But never criticize or advise a colleague unless they request it.

Jazz+

I didn't think about earplugs that's a great idea. I agree it doesn't really hurt your reputation... they just tell me that they're sorry that I had to play with so and so.

galex,

I guess it depends on whether someone is fixable or not.. there are times when its hopeless..its to the point where you realize you just cant make any music with this person, its going to sound bad no matter wht.

Larisa,

I think there is a big difference between you and the people I described.. you were willing to admit what you can and can't do and work on it. Some of These drummers and the bass players Ive been talking about went to university to study music, some even graduated with a degree.. if 3-5yrs of training did not make him realize their shortcomings, i doubt my suggestion will have any impact on them.

The bad players are probably either in denial, or don't know how to fix their problems, or just don't mind enough to fix themselves. I am not their analyst so I don't really care unless they hire me to be their coach or instructor.

This reminds me of a letter to Ann Landers some years back. The writer asked, "If a homosexual makes a pass at me, do I have to kill him?"

Ann replied, "No. A simple 'No, thank you,' is usually sufficient."

Of course the situation is different, but the principle is sound. You have a mouth. You can say, "No." It is not necessary to kill the other person's feelings. You do not owe him an explanation, either. And, favoring him with a judgement of his musicianship is not actually your business.

You already know this liaison is not worth the two hundred bucks to you. Would you get in a car with a staggering drunk at the wheel if he gave you $200? Yet it's not our job in life to make every person with an impairment act right--- if you drive a car, you'll know what I'm talking about. Drive your own car; try to stay out of this wreck.

When somebody call for a gig or whatever, I first ask questions to get all the details (where, when, start and end times, my rate, is there a piano there, requests?, etc. ). As I am listening to the answers I am forming an opinion about if I want the gig or not. Then I say "Let me check my calender." Then if I don't want the gig for some reason I simply respond with "I'm sorry I am already booked." I use the same approach if somebody I don't want to play with calls.

@Jazz+, I understand what you are saying, and I can only add that I only saw things from a amateur musician's point of view. I can relate to that in a sport spirit: when other tennis players comment on my weird technique I don't personally like it, because I feel my playing style [1] is my choice.
1 - I am ambidextrous, and often switch playing hands in game [I serve better with my right, but otherwise I use my left]

Would it help if I said, "Water sinks to it's lowest level, traveling downhill until it finds it's last level and can travel no further down hill. Containment"? (Gravity and Physics)

I like Jeff Clef's "take" on what works to your advantage and what is not your responsibility.

I think it's quite important to stay consistant to your own goals rather than to take under wing others who have more work to do to be prepared to perform in a group. Nice guys would say everybody's welcome, but you will be carrying a large weight and averaging toward the least common denominator in your musicianship if you don't seek what you need.

I feel differently as a teacher than I do as a performer/entertainer. My job as a teacher is to bring people along and provide appropriate encouragement and guidance. Any public playing I would do with others, is that they must be able to hold their own as well as I can to be a compatable, coherent group. If I am the least common denominator, they may choose to tell me so, and either I shape up or ship out.

If I'm in an everybody into the pool situation, it just exists spontaneously with no long term expectations.

I've found that leech like people when they find you, will really gravitate to you and won't let go.

Choosing circumstances is to your advantage. You can't give to everyone who would want to hook up musically with you, you'll find yourself depleted and angry.

Betty

Easy way out: Set your fee so high that if he pays it you won't mind playing the gig; and if it's too much for his budget, he won't hire you and you won't have to play it. That's a win-win! Don't get sidetracked with his problems - some people just can't keep time. If you don't want it at all, tell him you're booked. But always with a smile. He may quit playing and be in a position to throw you some good gigs.

Here is a great forum about this and related topics, called "Backstage With The Band":

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54

And here is their list of forums, all pop music related:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/index.php

Bingo! That's what I was trying to say.

Betty & Jeff,

thanks for the response.. yea I agree.. I've went through so many occasions where I felt like there was nothing i could do to make the music sound good. it's definitely bad for my self-esteem.

I think a lot of it has to do with my inexperience as a performer.. i recently finished school, and I actually stopped playing for a while because of injury, so I felt a little intimidated playing with good players, even though they have been generally receptive and positive whenever we played.

Maybe I am just not ready to move on from being a student.. I know i started out late and I am not quite 'there' even though I was one of the better players at school.I've been to jam sessions where people will call giant steps in 7 at 300 bpm and everyone seem to be able to play 1000 standards in all 12 keys and play all the crazy chris potter/brad mehldau lick in their sleep. I've been in circumstance i was totally 'owned' by a bass player and drummer who could play like gary peacock and Jack Dejohnette, and feeling like this is totally out of my league.

Maybe that's normal and its matter of my expectation... I am sure I'm not the only one who felt the same way after finishing school .. maybe a lot of ppl needed those experience after college to lift themselves to that level. After all the jam session i went to was hosted by the winners of the theoloneous monk international competition.

its weird, everyone that hear me play is impressed.. but I am unimpressed about the fact that they are impressed..basically i tell myself, "well, there really isn't much jazz in this town so people don't know any better."

And I really feel like I have so much to learn, maybe I'll be ready to call myself a musician If I can at least 'barely hang' among players like Aaron Parks, Tigran Hamsyan or any other good players around my age...

Another factor that should be considered is are you looking to get more gigs? Are you already playing as much as you want to be? Are you in demand in your local/regional area?

While I agree that you don't always want to be caught up in gigs with players under your level, there is something to be said about taking some of those less than optimal gigs to get your name out. Early on, I played in several situations similar to this and they ended up bringing me a lot of work with better musicians. Who knows who might see you with this band at the wedding? Who knows who they might know and who you would potentially be introduced to?

If you are already in demand as a piano player then you probably already know what your minimum fee is to take the gig and this should be an easy decision for you. If you're not in demand and you are looking to play and to later become 'in demand' i say take the gig, take the money, and learn from the experience. Be gracious to the other musicians you are playing with and even give them some pointers. Don't come off as cocky. Ideally, in the end they'll respect you as a great player and they'll speak highly of you to others. The more people speaking highly of your musicianship, the more you'll become in demand and the more selective you can be with gigs down the road.

JazzPianoEducator

yea that's the reason I was taking these less than ideal gigs. I stopped playing for an year because of tendonitis and I just started playing again recently.

btw I edited my last post.. and i guess this post is becoming more about my attitude as a working musician. I guess one thing I notice is the disparity between the good and not so good.. The pool of good musician is very small here , but the good ones are like super good, so I don't know where I fit, because I am not horrible but I am not keith jarrett either.

While they like how i play,i am not up to par with them, partly because I am on the process of rebuilding my chops since the injury and partly lack of experience (like being able to play 1000 tunes in any key)

etcetra,

I highly recommend you re-read Kenny Werner's book "Effortless Mastery" because you mentioned having self-esteem issues. And try not to compare yourself to others, it's pointless and a negative loop. I also recommend you listen to Kenny's webcast workshops, the last 7 are available for free on his websight.

If I were you I would maybe also avoid playing in the jam sessions, those are basicly cutting contests which can lower ones self esteem as you mentioned. I see jam sessions as more for fun than anything else. I have not found jam sessions to be especially helpful in getting gigs, that's not their purpose, there are far more successful ways to get gigs and to improve your chops. Practice and playing gigs improves my chops, not jam sessions.

J+

Jazz+

Thanks for your input. I guess I am going to jam sessions now because I am new where I live and I really don't know anyone, and its the only way I know to network with people.

The jam session here are by no means intimidating, and what i described is mainly from my experience when i was at school.

etcetera

I'm curious, are you trying to make a living as a professional musician? What are you doing to get gigs? There are a lot of good paying gigs for solo pianists. Playing solo usually is better paying than having to split the money. And giving private lessons is very profitable. By the way, jam sessions are not a very good way to get gigs.

J+

Jazz+

Yes, I am working on making a living playing and teaching. Like I said, I don't know anybody here and I don't speak the language, so its been difficult to network, not to mention that there is very little jazz where I live.

I am on the process of getting a teaching gig, and the wedding gigs I've been getting is a result from going to jam session and sitting in with people.

A lot of gigs here seemed to be fixed, and there is not much opening for new people. I know several other musicians who are good but aren't playing much too.

What language is spoken there?

In that case, I revise my earlier reply (and really, it was a mean-spirited reply - I don't know what got into me) - play with anyone and everyone, no matter how bad, and get your name out there. If you're good, you'll get invitations to play with better performers. I'd never say no to a gig if gigs are hard to get - especially to a paid gig at a wedding. In fact, I've only once said no to a gig, and it was because I had exams at the same time. Curse this law school.

When I go to ragtime festivals, I play with everyone, regardless of level (in fact, one of my favorite things to do is to drag the intermediate-level or beginner players to the piano to play duets with me), and I never say no to a gig. The more exposure I get for my music, the better; but also, I want to be known as someone who is easy and pleasant to deal with on a personal level. That matters. The way you deal with people does get noticed, and music can be a very small world sometimes. The musicians in the community you're trying to enter will hear whether or not you're good, even if the other performers are mediocre. And they will also be able to see that you don't have any weird hang-ups, that you can play with anyone and make them sound good, and that you're dependable and reliable and all those other things. It all matters.

jazz+

Chinese

Larisa

thats a very good point. Lately I am starting to realize that a good social skill will take you much further than your actual play ability. I've been getting more and more calls lately and it has more to do with the fact that they know me as a person now than how I play.

They did like my playing when I first met them, but I guess people weren't sure if I was going to be town much longer. Now that I know these people more, they have been more helpful. I guess I can make assesment as to who I want to be working with on a regular basis once I've met enough people.

And you're right, I did end up meeting better musicians through these not so good musicians.. and the good musicians dont really judge you based on how you play with the not so good musicians, because they've been there and they know what its like.

HK?

Hotel gigs...and it must be tough to get into the Chinese wedding gigs, different music I bet.

its weird out here for hotel gig.. what they mean by jazz is not anything like what we know about jazz. Some of the jazz here is... embarassing to listen to.

It's hard to get into hotel gigs if you don't know the right people.. because the people who play 'legit' jazz and the people who play wedding/hotel jazz are two different groups of people.

Oh, interesting! I have a jazz pianist friend in Shanghai; where are you located?

The other thing that people watch for, by the way, is whether you can make a mediocre player sound good by playing with them. There are a few ragtime players I know who can make anyone sound good by playing duets with them. I'm a fairly average player, but when I sit down with one of those guys, the result is spectacular.

So as you're playing with the mediocre musicians, think about how you could make the band sound better; think of it as a challenge, maybe? How artfully can you cover when the sax player gets the chord change wrong? How well can you adjust when the drummer speeds up or slows down erratically? If you can do that, you'll be worth your weight in gold to any band, and any musician listening to you will know that.

Incidentally, having a bit more confidence in your abilities will help too. You must be pretty good if you're getting that kind of gigs - so don't worry about the mediocre players dragging you down. You're good enough to drag them up.

As a teacher, it takes alot to leave my cheese out in the wind. I'm a patient man by nature, just slobbering over with patience, but under the surface of all that patience, there's a dark side. A seething, pulsating reservoir of magma just waiting for a vent to escape to the surface.

I'm always very patient with mediocre players if I have the misfortune to run into them in a working enviroment. I'm patient with them, until it's time to not be patient, at which point I become impatient, somewhat belligerent, and then there are repercussions, which range from an impromptu pow-wow of confrontationally brutal honesty to my walking out after having my say.

BJones,

haha that is funny.. but you are right.. I had people who told me honestly when I was out of line in my playing too... it sucks, but at the same time it got me fired up to fix whatever problem i was having.

Larisa,

Thanks. I was feeling insecure about my playing lately because I stopped playing for over an year because of tendonitis. I really felt out of shape.. and I felt really off when I started playing again. You are right, trusting in your ability is important, and I am more at ease with my self knowing that it will take some time to build my chops back. You never know who will call you for gig, so its important to stay in touch and network.

btw i've seen piano players do incredible feats with some horrible singers.. one singer called of a tune in one key and started singing in completely different key.. and she had no sense of time and the piano basically had to figure out where she was based on the words she was singing.. if it wasn't for that experienced pianist, it would have been a complete train wreck.

Afterwards the singer told the piano player how great he was and asked if he was interested in working with here.. he kindly told her that he was just too busy...

Tendonitis and realted maladies are a terrible thing and can be a recurring problem.
I work as a teacher, studio musician, and arranger, not as a pianist, only because I only play when I can play. When in pain, I don't play, just write at those times.
Sometimes I can play (the way I like to play), only for 10 minutes in a day. Other times, an hour or more, and sometimes, not for several days, if whatever I've got in there is aggravated.
I've been to doctors, therapists, chiropractics, you name it. They all came to the same conclusion. We don't know why, could be a touch of arthritis in there.
If I keep playing when tender, the fingers swell and recuperation takes almost a week without playing. Away from the piano I'm strong as a bull. never a problem unsticking frozen jar lids or with my grip, arm, and finger power.
I'm completely relaxed at the keyboard, my teacher is a master of teaching proper technique and he cannot see one trace of anything in my playing that would trigger the aggravation.
I teach proper technique to my students and not one of them has ever experienced a similar problem.

I was a little stiff today, so tomorrow I'll avoid the keybaord and on Sat, no doubt I'll be loose again! Strange. I'm used to it and have adapted my work practices and limitations due to it.

Bjones,

I am sorry to hear about your problems.. it was shocking to find out how many people were having problems at school. its not something that is talked about, and I wish school did more to raise awareness about this very important issue... because almost everyone who practiced seriously had problems.

my teacher said similar things about the hands.. there are so much we dont really know about how our body works. i know my problem was a result of bad teachers with bad advice & overstraining myself practicing 6-10 hrs a day.. out of insecurity and negative attitude, out of fear that i started so late,

I guess the good thing is that I am much more delibrate when I practice, and I am much happier about the progress I am making.. and I had to unlearn a lot of things that i was taught. ..

It was a revelation to find out how effortless piano playing can be... I am learning schubert's Eb major impromptu and i realized that the key to speed is relaxation.. my practice is soley focused on doing less to produce more, to find that place in me where the complex fast line becomes easy.

Most that suffer from this can make adjustments in a pedagogical gliche that is causing it and in time allevaite it altogether.

I fall into the rarer category of those that are executing with maximum ease and relaxation though some physiological subtlety, that is, ididosynchrosy in the hands or nearby playing menchanism is triggering ill effect that wouldn't be experienced from any other activity not involving the rapid depression of keys.

To me, it's a mystery what the root of the cause is as no medical or physical professional has been able to pinpoint the cause. Others may have similar effects due to some type of rheumatic, circulatory, nerve, muscular, etc., etc. problem or imbalance, which of course is only triggered by piano playing.

Anyway, the upside is that because I must limit my play, I'm not afforded the time to run into even more bad musicians on club dates and jam sessions than I already do in the studio and on arranging sessions, which has probably contributed to keeping me out of jail. There's a Yang for every Yin.

I have had tenosinivitis in both wrists since I was in the third grade. It first hit me from playing too much tennis.
The synovial sleeves that surround the tendons become inflamed. This is a result of the friction of the tendons sliding against the inner linings of the sheaths surrounding them. The linings become rough and gritty on a molecular level. When its aggravated I get swelling and that increases the level of friction. There is nothing that can be done except rest, MSM (sulfar tablets), warm water soaking, gentle stretching, and ibuprofen. Also try to play light action keyboards and avoid playing too percussivly or a lot of fast notes. Keep it simple and light when sore. Many people told me they cured the problem by having surgery that scraped away linings so new fresh ones could grow back. I presume it removes years of built up scar tissue.

I'm very familiar with this problem, and probably know more about hand structure and maladies at this point than most physicians!

Some TSV can be greatly aided by seeing an A.R.T. therapist, usually a chiropractor that has studied and is very adept at Active Release Therapy. It's a deep message technique that breaks up adhesions and scar tissue while stretching and movind tendons and muscles through specific ranges of motion.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work for me. Nothing does except not playing until the hands cool down.

Alot of lateral finger motion, especially stretching for large aggregates of 5 to 9 notes per hand exacerbate the problem more quickly than single note play.

Thanks. I tried A.R.T. with many practioners and unfortuneatly it doesn't work for me either.

It seemed to work on me at first, some temporary relief during a bad bout of inflammation, but it wasn't long lasting.

Luckily, I do play organ (have an old Hammond C3) and use light action electronic keyboards in the studio which don't have as much ill effect as the heavier action keyboards that I really prefer.

On them, I have more playing time available between down-times.

One doctor I went to was a pianist. I brought in a keyboard and played some short examples for him, telling him what hurt the most (hands already aggravated).
He said, "maybe if you didn't play so many notes, so rapidly....". I told him, "if I don't play what I hear, there's no reason to play, aside from work".

How easy is this guy to get along with?

I'll play with someone who is unskilled, but is good to work with. But if they're a jerk, I'm gone no matter how good they are. (I don't have to put up with it, I don't make my living that way.)

And, I have to admit, I've been hired or asked to play a number of times because I was easier to get along with than the more skilled but more difficult next guy.

Yes, I too will skip the great players who are not easy to get along with and go instead with the okay players who are easy going. But I will still totally avoid the not good players unless I am highly paid.

My problem is that whether high paid or not, I'm so damned good that I consider everyone a mediocre player...




... including myself!

.

I dunno; I am generally so thrilled to be playing music at all that I'll play with anyone. I had really bad tendinitis when I was 15, which caused a lot of damage to my hand, so I basically quit music for 10 years, and thought that my musical life was over. I am so thrilled to have been able to make a comeback that any time I get to play, anything at all, with anyone at all, is a blessing.

And yes, I have to limit my playing time as well, though I seem to be doing OK with 2-hour practice sessions these days, which excites me to no end. My technique is not fully back to what it used to be, and I'm not sure if it ever will be. But I don't care - as long as I can still play, and as long as I get to lead some kind of musical life, I'm ecstatic.

Yes. Your technique can improve. What you and I, and many others have, doesn't usually limit the facility of the fingers at the keyboard. If you listen to any of my audio files in my post signature, you'll note that when I can play, my technical ability is near the top of the pianistic spectrum. Unfotunately, our condition limits the amount of time that can be spent playing before aggravation occurs, resulting in down time for the hands to cool off. Sometime that down time is a day, sometimes two days, sometimes much longer.

Have you had your condition medically evaluated?

Dave Ferris

Yea that was what jam session at school was a lot like.. it was fun because you were around musicians you could trust, and they were in the same level of proficiency & thinking about the same things. Back then we were working on how to play more free rhythmically as a rhythm section.

You weren't feeling dragged down by other people but at the same time you weren't completely lost because the drummer played like Ari Hoenig. It was also fun because people actually listened to each each other and you weren't treated like an abersold. btw I usually stop playing when horn plays starts playing too many choruses

I really miss that about the guys I knew in school..we were all working together to improve and explore ideas, way beyond the crap the teachers were teaching us. It was a great space for all of us to try new things and not be afraid of screwing up.

Larisa,

I stopped playing for about 1 1/2 and I know what you mean... sometimes we get too worked up about being good, or making it that we forget the fun in it. I do have fun playing with people, even the music is not necessary what I want to play. I want to be able to do more musically and I see much further.. listening to keith jarrett's trio, Brad Mehldau, etc and their interaction inspires me, and that's something i practice for.. but most people i know are happy where they are and I can't really expect more out of that.

So i take it for what it is. sure its not that the most exciting thing to play night and day with walking bass line and high hat on good old 2 & 4, but at least I am playing with competent musicians, and for most people and non-musicians, being able to do that is a big deal.

Oh yes. The doctors did a lot more harm than good, in fact. The first doctor I saw, at age 15, gave me a cortisone shot so badly that he caused a ganglion cyst in my wrist; it's pressing on my ulnar nerve and causing a bit of weakness in my fourth and fifth finger. Another "doctor" put my hand in a splint that was badly designed and tore a ligament in my wrist. In fact, I think I've only dealt with one competent doctor throughout the 10 years of hand aggravation. After the last bit of medical malpractice, I forswore medical attention, and now treat all my hand angst with rest, ice, aspirin, and warm water soaking.

I'm really hoping my technique comes back. At my best, I used to play Liszt. I'm not quite back to that yet, but I now think I can get there, eventually. Alas, I'm in "downtime" mode right now - just played in a musical, which involved huge amounts of practice time and rehearsal time and stuff like that, and that was too much. Ah well.

Ice and cold water are better if your circulation is normal. Warm water can increase soft tissue inflammation.
Gentle stretching of the wrists, the arm outstretched, fingers gently stretched downward by the other hand (GENTLY!) thereby stretchin the wrists can also help. Unfortunately, aside from tylenol or naprosin (anti-inflammatories), there's not much more than that.


Stretch:

http://www.frixo.com/sites/fitness/exercises/pics/wrist1.jpg

Remember; gently!

MAKE HIM THE BAND MANAGER.

Better yet, make him the musical director!

Don't do it unless you truly will feel it and put on a good performance!