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"Are you in sales?" Oh milady, thou hast driven a dagger straight threw my heart (my apologies to any sales folks out there, I figure I've got the professional musicians ready to string me up, why not go for the sales folks to?)

I'm glad you understand that I'm not simply dissing musicians and live music. Heck, I've spent enough myself on instruments and lessons for the family that live music is obviously quite important to me. And I very much appreciate a live performer whenever I can get it (stopped to listen to a jazz ensemble at the outdoor mall just this Sat., kids wanted to get home, it was late, but I wanted to listen and I wanted them to listen). And yes, it wouldn't have even been close having some reproduction (whatever it might have been) to providing the same level of ambiance. BTW, this is a rather upscale mall, so others points about certain venues almost "requiring" live folks certainly valid. Just trying to provide a different POV to the issue.

I wish all musicians out there the best of fortune. It's a tough time for everyone. Though I haven't been "replaced by a machine", I have been through a "downsizing", so I know losing your primary source of income (and for the lucky few, pleasure) pretty much sucks.

It's such a shame that there are so few venues these days for solo pianists. The only place that still has one that I know of is a Nordstrom's about an hour from me. I know there are places in New York City still, but haven't found anything since moving up here to the burbs. There are a few places with live jazz, but no solo piano.

EDIT: Oh, shoot! I just did a Google search of "Nordstrom, piano players" and found out they just this year discontinued the live piano playing in all their stores!!

My favorite teacher www.rosscarnegie.com played at Nordstrom for many years.

Nordstrom benching its piano players http://getsatisfaction.com/nordstrom/topics/nordstrom_benching_its_piano_players

Here's another article about Nordstrom "benching its piano players":

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/341507_nordstrom29.html

Not that I can afford to shop at Nordstrom, but maybe we should complain? Seems like they're throwing away a grand tradition for no reason except to be more "current" and modern.

"The company claims most customers prefer the piped-in contemporary music to the classic jazzy tunes played live on a baby grand."

This strikes me at best as abnormal, at worst as an outright lie. I'd love to hear what questions they asked their customers - if they surveyed them at all - to reach the conclusion that piped-in contemporary music (which would either be a single CD on repeat all day, everyday, or a music station complete with COMMERCIALS) would be preferable to a live musician.

It is bottom line for reducing expenses.

Perhaps Nordstrom has to also pay ASCAP fees or other fees because music is being played on the premises - I'm not the least bit informed about what it costs to do public performances, but:

Barbershop groups, men and women, pay fees for using the music in their shows,

Community theater performances also have fees to pay

Etc....

And, I'm sure they would charge for the air you are breathing in their spaces if they could.

Nothing is a casual performance these days.....maybe you didn't know that. This could have led to their bottom line decisions.

I am really sorry to have read this year about so many changes in what used to be accessible live music in public places.

For many years, the church pianos in sanctuaries I have used for recitals have an insurance policy to buy, facility fees, tuning fees (sometimes), and kitchen use fees (if you bring cookies and beverage). Plus some churches put your request for usage for a piano recital through the church committee a month in advance for permission, and even then on the contract there is a clause: church may cancel within 24 hours if there is a need for the church premises during the time "user" is scheduled for.

Now, if you are a member of the church, no special contract is needed, just schedule it and do it.

What do you think of all these apples that make it hard to find "public pianos that play well" for the "little guy"?

It's not as free as it looks to the audience!

Betty

Very interesting thread!

[1] I used to have a job as a restaurant pianist - great job, people, ambience, food. Then moved out of the area for a few years. When I came back not only that particular restaurant but others were just using canned music. And others which had had pianos no longer had them. Many places now where I am have guitarist/singers - well at least it's live music.

[2] My nearest big city is Sydney. The classiest of the department stores in the central business district has had a live pianist playing a Steinway for as long as I can remember (probably not the same pianist however ). If I remember rightly they tried to ditch this a few years ago and the public protest was such that they changed their minds!
However, in another classy shopping venue in the same area is a player grand, with a chilling sign on it which says DO NOT PLAY THE PIANO (I guess they just mean that piano, and not a general directive ) I used to hear it playing Chopin, and other lighter things, but it has been sitting there silently for a couple of years at least now, with its sign.

[3] I work as an accompanist, and do a lot of accompanying singers for exams, for which a live accompanist used to be the requirement. Our local exam board has now put out a new series of books complete with accompaniment CD which can now be used in the exam. Now this will really mean being replaced by a machine. Many will begrudge the rehearsal and performance fees and opt for the convenience of the CD.

I suppose this thread has just encouraged me to make my views on these things known to those in power. Thanks!

I called the Nordstrom store that's about an hour from me (White Plains, New York) and asked what was going on with the live piano music. I was told that the piano is still there. I then asked if they still had their usual professional pianist(s), and she said "No, just the manager plays it sometimes now"! I think it's all about money, though you wouldn't think what they pay (apparently just $15.00 an hour for a professional pianist) would break the bank for Nordstrom.

Story: http://getsatisfaction.com/nordstrom/topics/nordstrom_benching_its_piano_players

"Nordstrom benching its piano players":
Nordstrom has announced it plans to discontinue the tradition of live piano music starting next year. The company claims most customers prefer the piped-in contemporary music to the classic jazzy tunes played live on a baby grand.

I, for one, am shocked that Nordstrom has decided to do this. For me, live piano playing is the hallmark of the Nordstrom brand. Without it, I might as well shop at Macy's.

I have questions for Nordstrom:

First, I would like to know where and how you received this customer "intelligence": Customer surveys? Focus groups? Video-surveilled customer tracking (another wonderful detail in the brave new world of offline shopping)?

Second, I wonder whether your best and most loyal in-store customers have been polled on the subject. I will bet that the vast majority will be disappointed, if not outright shocked.

Third, I wonder if your $15.00 per hour pianists are simply scapegoats for Nordstrom's less than stellar financial projections going forward. Benching your "piano men" is not going to help existing customer dissatisfaction. How much are you saving here in exchange for silencing a wonderful tradition?"

GO ELSSA GO!

Please send this letter to Nordstrom's. Send it to the editor of the local newspaper, and send it to the CEO of Nordstrom's. Print out a copy of this forum and send it to the store, along with stats about how many people read these threads.

Having been in the biz for a billion years, I know that management listens to complaints. They listen even more to compliments, since it's rare that a customer raves about something, so make sure to speak up when in the presence of live music.

And you, Currawong, your post sums up the situation so beautifully. PLEASE DO NOT PLAY. Good grief, what irony there is in that sign being placed next to a player piano.

Any New Yorkers on board here? I got a letter from a woman who read my Piano Girl book and then went on a tour of all the places I talked about in the book (sort of like a Davinci Code Paris tour, except for piano lovers). Not a single hotel still had live music.

The Waldorf still has two wonderful pianists (Emilee Floor and Debbie Andrews) working in Peacock Alley, but last spring they discontinued live music in the lobby bar, where Daryl Sherman, arguably the BEST singer-player on the circuit had been playing COLE PORTER'S piano for the last decade. Even the New York Times ran an article about her tenure there, and the shame of a place like the Waldorf cutting out music.

http://movies.nytimes.com/2008/05/03/nyregion/03waldorf.html?scp=1&sq=daryl+sherman&st=nyt

I'm sure the Waldorf management (HILTON!) had a moment of remorse, but I know how these hotels are—they hope people forget, or even worse, that they'll never know what they're missing.

Here's the contact info:

Blake Nordstrom, CEO
Corporate Offices
Nordstrom Direct Inquiries
1700 Seventh Avenue, Suite 300
Seattle, WA 98101
(206) 303-6000

BTW, would love to know why the CEO, Blake Nordstrom, reportedly earns over 5 million dollars a year as CEO but doesn't think they can afford the $15.00 an hour for pianists anymore. I'm sure they didn't even conduct a legitimate poll of customers...It's all about the money.

Does the union represent any of the pianists who play in public entertainment?

Why is renumeration so cheap at $15 per hour?

Yes, I wondered that too. The job I mentioned that I had was over 20 years ago and even then I was getting more than three times that. (Different country, I know, but ...)

Of course that's just the point - they don't want to pay, so the machine seems to be a better option.

"Why is renumeration so cheap at $15 per hour?"

Apparently, from the articles I've been reading, the pianists were also given some benefits, including health insurance...Bet that's the real reason they were let go. It's all about saving money, though their CEO there seems to be doing quite well at a salary of 5 million a year:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20071130-9999-1n30piano.html

"But the Nordstrom in Horton Plaza and the one in Escondido have done away with what has long been a signature of the department store chain.

Yesterday, instead of piano music, the Rolling Stones' “Beast of Burden” drifted through the Horton Plaza store.

Some say the switch from live music to recordings is a shame, regardless. “It takes away the human touch,” said Joan Kurland, who played the piano at local Nordstrom stores in the late 1980s. “I had people come up all the time and tell me how much they enjoyed it.”

Kurland had some memorable experiences as a Nordstrom pianist. A young person once came down the escalator, saw her playing and shouted out: “How about some Led Zeppelin!” She was able to accommodate him, she said with pride. One of the heavy metal group's songs, “Stairway to Heaven,” sounds just fine on the piano.

Most of the time, though, Kurland played show tunes. Customers especially appreciated the “Charlie Brown Theme.”

“I remember seeing people spend an hour just listening,” she said. “Some people came in just to listen.”

Nordstrom is aware that many customers will be disappointed by the change from live music to recorded pop and alternative hits. “We know there are feelings on both sides, White said [Brook White, a national spokeswoman for Nordstrom]. White emphasized that the music that is replacing the piano is of high quality. “It's great,” she said.

But, for some, even the best recording pales in comparison to the sound produced by a grand piano, with a pianist bent over the keys.

Kristin Gibbs, who was visiting Horton Plaza from Porterville, joked that the piano music at Nordstrom helped her husband weather her shopping trips. “It's nice to hear real instruments,” she said. Loyd Brown, another shopper, agreed.

“I always prefer live music,” he said. “If you think about it, who wouldn't?”

Hotel or cocktail lounge type gigs are a dying art form. Only because the public no longer really care to listen to it. They are so used to recorded music that hearing music played for real has little effect on them. Also I think that the overall standard of "cocktail performers" has gone downhill.

That the piano gets replaced by a computer playing probably will not effect 95% of people who go there. It will effect those who love piano music, but unfortunately that is not a large part of the population. Musicians who get the boot better find a better musical career. Playing your whole life for an audience who isn't really listening to it, its so depressing in my mind.

Dear Lost----
I play for myself, and anyone who cares to listen.

I can't repeat this often enough: A machine is different from a live musician. A machine is the opposite of real.

People notice. Maybe they can't articulate the dismay they feel by having one more beautiful thing stripped away from their lives, but they notice.

I can understand, to some degree, your cynicism. But human beings deserve more credit than what you're giving them. I honestly believe that all of us deserve and desire as much beauty as the world has to offer.

Here is a passage from one of my books. The woman quoted in this passage is pianist Robin Spielberg:

*********************************************************

“There are real people out there,” she reminds me, “individual customers and workers—unique human beings with uncommon desires—each of whom deserves ten minutes of beautiful music.”

“That’s why we’re musicians,” she says. “You never know who is listening. It might be someone who really needs the music you play. Maybe the person who needs it most is you. But that counts, right?” I can’t listen to her and stay cynical. Her enthusiasm gets under my skin, and, before I know it, I adopt her philosophy and claim it as my own. I don’t know where she stops and I start.

She gives me a reason to keep playing.

*****************************

May I take the soapbox?

And we didn't know we were an endangered species!

I remember the days when organs (with pedals) were popular, and I used to perform on that.. The malls always had a keyboardist/organist playing at the music store. That was the most popular store in the mall! Everybody loved to just sit there and listen and then some would try out the organs. It gave the mall such a nice warm feeling, unlike the feeling of the cold canned music today.

I got a reply to my e-mail letter of complaint to Nordstrom's, and they stated that money was not the issue for cutting out the pianists. I don't believe it.. I think the health insurance and other benefits given to the pianists was a main reason (even though they obviously could afford that, since they're paying their CEO, Blake Nordstrom, over 5 million a year).

Elssa—

Good for you for following though with that letter.

Artists have always been endangered. We need to protect each other and hope that people understand how much we contribute. I choose to believe they do.

I would have thought the performers were contracted, not actively employed? I'll hold my tongue on the CEO comment

Here's another article:

"Nordstrom's three newest stores, in the Detroit area, Denver and Natick, Mass., opened this year without pianists. And by next year, three of five Nordstrom stores in Oregon will go without live piano performances. White noted that most Nordstrom pianists in Washington state play for no more than five hours daily.

Still, doing away with live piano music is a store-by-store decision and not part of some directive by Seattle headquarters, she said...

That's some consolation to Joel Baker, who played the piano at the Tukwila store from 1988 to 2003. He described it as one of the few daytime jobs for pianists that paid well — $15 an hour in his last year — and offered such benefits as a 401(k) and health insurance.

"Once in a while, a shopper would sit by the piano, or say they really liked a tune when I didn't think anyone was listening," said Baker, 40, who now performs at restaurants in Palm Springs, Calif. "I don't think the shoppers were going in just to hear the music, but I do think the piano was one of the things that made Nordstrom unique."