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#1137549 - 12/27/06 04:19 PM Best pop/rock pianists?
Astra Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 391
Loc: Slovenia
Hi!
I dont know many pop/rock pianists but I wondered whos the best. Fe. Billy Joel, Elton John, Freddie Mercury, Stevie Wonder, ...
Could someone compare these and maybe any others?

Thanks
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#1137550 - 12/27/06 06:43 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
If you're asking who's the "best" from a technical standpoint, it would be pretty hard to make a valid comparison on an internet website.

From a sales perspective, Billy Joel has sold more records/CD's than any other pop/rock piano player in history. However, that doesn't necessarily mean his music is the "best".

As to who made the "best" music is a matter of personal preference and opinion. In my opinion, I would rate those you mentioned as follows:

1. Elton John
2. Billy Joel
3. Stevie Wonder
4. Freddie Mercury

Elton could compose, play and sing subtle, beautiful songs like "Candle in the Wind", as well as really rocking tunes like "Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting". He's the easy #1 in my opinion.

Jerry Lee Lewis was a talented and influential pop/rock pianist you neglected to mention. His unique style and showmanship were par excellent. He definitely belongs on any short list of outstanding pop/rock pianists.

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#1137551 - 12/27/06 06:54 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
I do think Billy Joel might have an edge on most of the rock pop pianists, as he not only plays well and sings, but he writes both lyrics and music. He also does well as a video entertainer.
He is extremely versatile... has written all sorts of genre... including some classical and broadway.

Ray Charles was left out too. He was one of the most influential pianists and sing songwriters in popular music to this date and like Joel has a wide range of styles including country.

But Elton is no slouch; he fortunately has Taupin and others to collaborate with.

Ray Charles is genius and did more for popular music of many types than JLL.

Freddie Mercury is good... but not as good as these others IMO.

So here is jmo my ranking of the popular rock piano entertainers

Ray Charles
Billy Joel (I am tempted to put BJ above RC but I
give the edge to the fellow Ray Charles who blazed the way for the rest)
Elton John
Stevie Wonder
Jerry Lee Lewis
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#1137552 - 12/27/06 07:00 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
The Emperor Offline
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Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 131
Loc: Lagos, Portugal
Keith Emerson, Tony Banks, Rick Wright, Rick Wakeman...big fan of 70's prog rock \:\)

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#1137553 - 12/27/06 08:23 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
So here is jmo my ranking of the popular rock piano entertainers

Ray Charles
Billy Joel (I am tempted to put BJ above RC but I
give the edge to the fellow Ray Charles who blazed the way for the rest)
Elton John
Stevie Wonder
Jerry Lee Lewis
Judging them as ENTERTAINERS, IMO Jerry Lee Lewis easily beats them all. Nobody I know of brought more energy and excitement to the piano than Jerry Lee, and his ability to "get the joint jumpin' and shakin'" is unequalled.

When he really got going and kicked that piano bench out from under him, he could "rock the house" like no other piano player before or since.

Here is a clip of Jerry Lee's first TV appearance ever, on the Steve Allen show in the 50's. At the end of the song, even the normally reserved Allen comes over and starts jumping around:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RppQRBwbhOs

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#1137554 - 12/27/06 08:37 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
The original "Mr. Excitement" kicks it into high gear with "Great Balls of Fire":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qa-eKx9Du4

Who says piano playing is "boring"?! Somebody who's never seen Jerry Lee play, that's who!

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#1137555 - 12/27/06 08:43 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
Jerry Lee Lewis performing "Breathless", and as usual, he left his screaming audience breathless!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXEbLRRxVx0

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#1137556 - 12/27/06 08:55 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
Jerry Lee performing "I'm on Fire". No doubt he is, as well as his audience! Check out how excited his audience gets:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfLVtyRvTEs

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#1137557 - 12/27/06 09:00 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
Check out the legends in this classic clip! Jerry Lee, Bill Medley and Bobby Hatfield (the Righteous Brothers), and the late great Jackie Wilson. Rest in peace, Bobby and Jackie!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5EN947EOCc

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#1137558 - 12/27/06 09:58 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
I think JLL pulls Music Lovers heartstrings as much as Ella pulls mine. LOL

Thanks for sharing. BTW I posted "Breathless" by JLL first..... LOL.
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#1137559 - 12/27/06 10:23 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
I think JLL pulls Music Lovers heartstrings as much as Ella pulls mine.
JLL isn't my all-time favorite pop/rock artist, but I don't know of any pop/rock piano player who could "get the joint rockin'" like he did.

In the 50's and 60's, he virtually single-handedly kept the acoustic piano from going extinct in the pop/rock world.

He "passed the torch" to Elton John and Billy Joel in the 70's, who proved that the piano was still alive and well in the rock era.

Elton and Billy are both outstanding, but IMO Elton's melodies and vocals have greater feeling and depth than Billy's.

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#1137560 - 12/27/06 10:42 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
Ray Charles passed the torch to JLL.
Ray be the man.
LOL
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#1137561 - 12/27/06 10:42 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
To me, that would be subjective. True, Elton's melodies are powerful things, but I can think of some outstanding songs full of emotion written by BJ (and he did both lyrics and song). BJ is a genius at writing pop lyrics.

Powerful... Goodnight Saigon , River of Dreams; Lullabye, Downeaster Alexa, My Baby Grand, Allen Town, Shameless, The Piano Man, Honesty, You're My Home, New York State Of Mind


For example:
Goodnight Saigon is a touching tribute to those who served in the Vietnam war. The intervals in the hooks/fills are there to sound oriental. Yet the tune also sounds classical at parts.

Excerpted Lyrics in Goodnight Saigon...

Remember Charlie, remember Baker
They left their Childhood on every acre
And who was wrong, and who was right
It didn't matter in the thick of the fight

We held the day in the palms of our hands
They held the night and the night
seemed to last as long as,

Six weeks on Paris Island
We held the coast line
They held the highlands

And they were sharp,
As sharp as knives
They heard the hum of the motors
They counted the rotors
And waited for us to arrive...

And we would all go down together...
We said we'd all go down together...


 Quote:
Originally posted by Music Lover:
 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
I think JLL pulls Music Lovers heartstrings as much as Ella pulls mine.
JLL isn't my all-time favorite pop/rock artist, but I don't know of any pop/rock piano player who could "get the joint rockin'" like he did.

In the 50's and 60's, he virtually single-handedly kept the acoustic piano from going extinct in the pop/rock world.

He "passed the torch" to Elton John and Billy Joel in the 70's, who proved that the piano was still alive and well in the rock era.

Elton and Billy are both outstanding, but IMO Elton's melodies and vocals have greater feeling and depth than Billy's. [/b]
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#1137562 - 12/27/06 11:04 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
Ray Charles passed the torch to JLL. Ray be the man.
I don't know if the two are a real good comparison, Wolfie. And I'm not saying that to take anything away from the great Ray Charles. But they played completely different genres of music and had distinctly different styles.

Ray Charles was primarily a classic R&B piano player, while JLL was an all-out "rocker". I've never considered Ray's music to be rock.

JLL was a rock pianist, Ray an R&B pianist. Both undisputed legends in their own right.

Elton John proved he could "rock out" with songs like "Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting", as well as play incredibly sensitive pieces like "Candle in the Wind".

Most of Billy Joel's music never really appealed to me, though there's no disputing he has been tremendously popular with many people. He's also a fine pop piano player. IMO, Elton's music had greater emotional depth.

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#1137563 - 12/27/06 11:13 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
To me, that would be subjective.
Which is precisely why I included the abbreviation "IMO" in my statement that you're referring to. As I'm sure you already know, that means "In My Opinion". And I was referring to Elton's melodies and vocals, not the lyrics in his songs. \:\)

And as a lyricist, I'll take Bernie Taupin over Billy Joel in a heartbeat. But to each his own! I'm not criticizing your opinions in any way. ;\)

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#1137564 - 12/28/06 12:40 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Mike A Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 520
Loc: So.Cal.USA
The late Billy Preston is probably a good name to include on a list of rock/pop keyboard greats.

"Preston's career highlights include stints with The Stones, The Family Stone, Sam Cooke, Ray Charles, Mahalia Jackson, Aretha and of course the last three albums with The Beatles as well as the last ever of their performances on the roof, The Concert for Bangladesh, The Concert for George, tours with Clapton, George, Ringo and a stellar solo career singing and/or playing on monster hits "Out A Space," "Nothing From Nothing" and "Will It Go Round In Circles.""

"More recently, Billy can be heard on the latest albums by Neil Diamond and Red Hot Chili Peppers. He's also featured on the Starbucks soul album "Believe to My Soul" featuring Mavis Staples and Ann Peebles."

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#1137565 - 12/28/06 12:46 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
euclid10540 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 22
I can't believe everyone is overlooking the greatest pop piano player ever - Neil Sedaka! From his biography on his official website:
 Quote:
It was classical music that shaped the musicianship of the young Neil Sedaka. At the age of eight, he had already begun his intensive classical piano training at the prestigious Juilliard School of Music, practicing up to five hours a day. And by the time Sedaka was sixteen, Artur Rubinstein voted him one of the finest classical pianists in New York City high schools. Classical music has always remained a passion for Sedaka, and though he once considered earning a doctorate in the field, it was not where he chose to forge his legend.
You should obtain his album Classically Sedaka, where he adds his own lyrics to classical songs like Liebestraume and Fur Elise. The man enjoyed two careers, early rock and roll in the early sixties, and a revival in the early seventies.

Listen to him, live in concert, and decide for yourself. You won't be disappointed, even though Neil recently celebrated his seventieth birthday.

Neil is still writing and singing hit records after fifty years:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVCLdzBYjEs

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#1137566 - 12/28/06 01:04 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
But... 50's rock and roll came forth from the R&B origins. Blues from the Missipi Delta came first...then Jazz which spread when blacks (northern migration) came up north for jobs ... origins are for R&B from hymns, black spirituals, blues and Jazz (R.C. 's I Got A Woman melody).... then came Rock and Roll.

Ray has had an influence on almost every kind of modern popular music.... witness RC's spirtual and country music contribution's.

I guess I'd have to say that I would tend to give the advantage towards the musician who has influenced all of the various popular music genres out there the most. But I would also say all these musicians we are discussing here in this thread have at least made significant contributions in their specific genre(s).

All have earned their due respect and are great at what they do in music.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Music Lover:
 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
Ray Charles passed the torch to JLL. Ray be the man.
I don't know if the two are a real good comparison, Wolfie. And I'm not saying that to take anything away from the great Ray Charles. But they played completely different genres of music and had distinctly different styles.

Ray Charles was primarily a classic R&B piano player, while JLL was an all-out "rocker". I've never considered Ray's music to be rock.

JLL was a rock pianist, Ray an R&B pianist. Both undisputed legends in their own right.

Elton John proved he could "rock out" with songs like "Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting", as well as play incredibly sensitive pieces like "Candle in the Wind".

Most of Billy Joel's music never really appealed to me, though there's no disputing he has been tremendously popular with many people. He's also a fine pop piano player. IMO, Elton's music had greater emotional depth. [/b]
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#1137567 - 12/28/06 01:07 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
Ray Charles Thread---
Videos and Articles here, recently posted

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/37/689.html
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#1137568 - 12/28/06 01:08 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by euclid10540:
I can't believe everyone is overlooking the greatest pop piano player ever - Neil Sedaka!
That's a pretty subjective statement on your part, Euclid. Please explain exactly what makes him allegedly the "greatest pop piano player ever". \:\)

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#1137569 - 12/28/06 01:12 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
Here is another thread that was posted recently on Billy Joel in the Piano Forum Board... this thread has some great Billy Joel Videos in it including River of dreams, The Piano Man, Goodnight Saigon, and more.

Earlier thread on Billy Joel:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/16260.html
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#1137570 - 12/28/06 01:15 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
Neil sedaka; yes he wrote some fun pop songs but he seems less popular amongst the younger crowd.
BJ and EJ attract fans young and old. Calender Girl was one of his hits.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Music Lover:
 Quote:
Originally posted by euclid10540:
I can't believe everyone is overlooking the greatest pop piano player ever - Neil Sedaka!
That's a pretty subjective statement on your part, Euclid. Please explain exactly what makes him allegedly the "greatest pop piano player ever". \:\) [/b]
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#1137571 - 12/28/06 01:16 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
I like both Taupins and Joels lyrics myself.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Music Lover:
 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
To me, that would be subjective.
Which is precisely why I included the abbreviation "IMO" in my statement that you're referring to. As I'm sure you already know, that means "In My Opinion". And I was referring to Elton's melodies and vocals, not the lyrics in his songs. \:\)

And as a lyricist, I'll take Bernie Taupin over Billy Joel in a heartbeat. But to each his own! I'm not criticizing your opinions in any way. ;\) [/b]
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#1137572 - 12/28/06 01:18 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
Billy Joel doing New York State Of Mind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeSWaHdlVow

BTW this tune has been covered by Bennett and Streisand.
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#1137573 - 12/28/06 01:21 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
Scenes from Italian Restaurant by Billy Joel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGqgZgdkzoc

Now on this song... his (B. Joel's) style reminds me of some of the things Elton does in his playing. the same kind of feel to it.
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#1137574 - 12/28/06 01:22 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
euclid10540 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 22
Okay, so Neil Sedaka is one of the greats, or at least should be mentioned with the greatest. I mention him strictly on his piano playing abilities, not as an entertainer, or rock and roll pioneer.

I feel certain if you asked Billy Joel or Elton John, they would defer to Neil for his classical background. EJ even did a song with Neil, Bad Blood. Neil has written, many hit pop songs, including two versions of the very popular Breaking Up is Hard To Do.

Also taken from his website:
 Quote:
Sedaka has embarked on a marriage of an entirely different sort by returning to the classical roots of his early years. With original romantic lyrics written by Sedaka, and set to the music of Beethoven, Chopin, Rachmaninoff, and Tchaikovsky, he has released a collection of these songs on Classically Sedaka. He has already performed a selection of these songs with many symphonies across the United States and the United Kingdom, including the Richmond Symphony, the Jacksonville Symphony, the National Symphony Orchestra at the Kennedy Center, and the New York Pops at Carnegie Hall. Both the critical and audience response have been phenomenal. Classically Sedaka has gone on to earn a gold record in Europe.
So, strictly from a piano playing point of view, I personally feel Neil Sedaka is one of the grestest pop piano players ever, with a career spanning six decades.

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#1137575 - 12/28/06 01:27 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
Good Night Saigon by Billy Joel link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvIE32rdvKU

this is the pretty much the way he did it at the concert I saw... with the chopper sounds, film clips in the background,
and the singers dressed like a band of brothers. At the concert I was at they had some local vietnam vets join the circle of the band of brothers. It was very moving.
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#1137576 - 12/28/06 01:31 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
You know all of these artists would say they aren't no.1 Rock Pianist... all would feel almost embarrassed if someone gave them an award for being no.1 anything.

They all respect each other's body of work.
They are all professionals in the business of making music. And the cool thing is they put the piano up front and center as the instrument of choice.
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#1137577 - 12/28/06 01:37 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
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#1137578 - 12/28/06 01:37 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
Allentown performed live in Long Island Concert
1982
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOkxnk1hxRo&mode=related&search=

Below is a picture of Ray Charles and Billy joel recording "Baby Grand"

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#1137579 - 12/28/06 01:47 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
But... 50's rock and roll came forth from the R&B origins. Blues from the Missipi Delta came first...then Jazz which spread when black came up north for jobs ... origins are R&B from black spirituals, blues and Jazz (R.C. 's I Got A Woman melody).... then Rock and Roll. Ray has had an influence on almost every kind of modern popular music.... witness RC's spirtual and country music contribution's.

I guess I'd have to say that I would tend to give the advantage towards the musician who has influenced all of the various popular music genres out there the most. But I would also say all these musicians we are discussing here in this thread have at least made significant contributions in their specific genre(s).

All have earned their due respect and are great at what they do in music.
This thread is about who is the best pianist, not the most influential musician. \:\)

As a youth in the 1930's and 1940's, two of Ray's greatest and earliest musical influences were Country-Western and Classical music. He played both and was given access to musical instruments while a student at the Florida School for the Deaf and the Blind in the 1940's.

While still a teenager in the 40's, after leaving the FSDB, Ray played in several bands, including Country bands.

Rock is a mixture of both black and white forms of music. R&B played an important part, but R&B per se is NOT Rock 'n' Roll or Rockabilly. Rock and Rockabilly have a completely different rythym structure than the classic R&B of the 1940's and 50's.

Rockabilly especially was strongly influenced by Country music, as was the Rock 'n' Roll of acts like the Everly Brothers.

And R&B didn't just spring forth from a void. There were earlier forms of music, both black and white, that were influential in the birth of R&B.

If we start talking about who or what influenced whom, this thread could get pretty complicated--which is why I prefer to stick to simply discussing the individual piano-playing and songwriting abilities of specific artists, rather than who was supposedly the most influential. \:\)

As to who is the most influential, is best discussed in a separate thread of its own. ;\)

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#1137580 - 12/28/06 01:54 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
Ok sticking to who is best pianist alone...
toss up perhaps between Elton and Billy.

Both have great chops!
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#1137581 - 12/28/06 01:58 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
Behold...
recent thread on Billy Preston ....
videos, articles, interviews in it.
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/37/686.html

 Quote:
Originally posted by Mike A:
The late Billy Preston is probably a good name to include on a list of rock/pop keyboard greats.

"Preston's career highlights include stints with The Stones, The Family Stone, Sam Cooke, Ray Charles, Mahalia Jackson, Aretha and of course the last three albums with The Beatles as well as the last ever of their performances on the roof, The Concert for Bangladesh, The Concert for George, tours with Clapton, George, Ringo and a stellar solo career singing and/or playing on monster hits "Out A Space," "Nothing From Nothing" and "Will It Go Round In Circles.""

"More recently, Billy can be heard on the latest albums by Neil Diamond and Red Hot Chili Peppers. He's also featured on the Starbucks soul album "Believe to My Soul" featuring Mavis Staples and Ann Peebles." [/b]
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#1137582 - 12/28/06 02:05 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
You know all of these artists would say they aren't no.1 Rock Pianist... all would feel almost embarrassed if someone gave them an award for being no.1 anything.

They all respect each other's body of work.
They are all professionals in the business of making music. And the cool thing is they put the piano up front and center as the instrument of choice.
Well said, Wolfie! ;\)

And I would like to stress that I do NOT consider Jerry Lee Lewis to be the "best" pop/rock pianist ever. If you've read this thread carefully, you'll know that I haven't proclaimed any one artist to be the "best". As to who is "best", is simply too subjective.

Every pianist we've discussed has their strengths and weaknesses. JLL could play with incredible energy, excitement and showmanship--but could never match up with Elton and Billy in the songwriting department.

As to who is TECHNICALLY a better pianist, will have to be decided by people who know far more about the instrument than I do.

I'd just like to say this is a GREAT thread, and thanks to all who have participated in it, whether I agree with them on certain points or not! \:\)

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#1137583 - 12/28/06 02:14 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Yep... R&B did not come forth from a void.
Like I said earlier. JLLs playing is chock full of blues. He was a great pianist, though the last time I saw him on letterman he lost a few steps due to age.

Origins for R&B from black spirituals (and earlier style the white hymns) , blues and Jazz (R.C. 's I Got A Woman melody).... then Rock and Roll. Ray has had an influence on almost every kind of modern popular music.... witness RC's spirtual and country music contribution's.
Ray is an American Musical Genius and so many professional musicians credit him with inspiring them.

I truly would be hard pressed to pick either Billy Joel or Elton John as the best of the two; they each have their strengths and probably its best not to to pick one over the other as far as their playing goes. But if I were forced to pick the better pianist of the two I might pick Elton simply because he is like an energizer bunny and is still very active in touring all these years.

I do wish Billy Joel hadn't decided to stop writing pop songs. Meanwhile Elton continues to pump out great new songs that sing.

Interesting discussion. Elton vs. Billy Joel... close match???? I have seen Billy in concert.
I want to see Elton Jphn but his ticket prices were sky high when he recently played in my area.
But I have all Elton's concert DVDs to keep me happy.


 Quote:
Originally posted by Music Lover:
 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
But... 50's rock and roll came forth from the R&B origins. Blues from the Missipi Delta came first...then Jazz which spread when black came up north for jobs ... origins for R&B from black spirituals, blues and Jazz (R.C. 's I Got A Woman melody).... then Rock and Roll. Ray has had an influence on almost every kind of modern popular music.... witness RC's spirtual and country music contribution's.

I guess I'd have to say that I would tend to give the advantage towards the musician who has influenced all of the various popular music genres out there the most. But I would also say all these musicians we are discussing here in this thread have at least made significant contributions in their specific genre(s).

All have earned their due respect and are great at what they do in music.
This thread is about who is the best pianist, not the most influential musician. \:\)

As a youth in the 1930's and 1940's, two of Ray's greatest and earliest musical influences were Country-Western and Classical music. He played both and was given access to musical instruments while a student at the Florida School for the Deaf and the Blind in the 1940's.

While still a teenager in the 40's, after leaving the FSDB, Ray played in several bands, including Country bands.

Rock is a mixture of both black and white forms of music. R&B played an important part, but R&B per se is NOT Rock 'n' Roll or Rockabilly. Rock and Rockabilly have a completely different rythym structure than the classic R&B of the 1940's and 50's.

Rockabilly especially was strongly influenced by Country music, as was the Rock 'n' Roll of acts like the Everly Brothers.

And R&B didn't just spring forth from a void. There were earlier forms of music, both black and white, that were influential in the birth of R&B.

If we start talking about who or what influenced whom, this thread could get pretty complicated--which is why I prefer to stick to simply discussing the individual piano-playing and songwriting abilities of specific artists, rather than who was supposedly the most influential. \:\)

As to who is the most influential, is best discussed in a separate thread of its own. ;\) [/b]
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#1137584 - 12/28/06 02:17 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Yes a great thread indeed. I even managed to put all the other recent threads on these great pop/rock pianists into this thread so folks can find the links we all found at youtube. LOL

I gotta itch to do some Haiku again.
After I find the thread on Stevie. LOL.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Music Lover:
 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
You know all of these artists would say they aren't no.1 Rock Pianist... all would feel almost embarrassed if someone gave them an award for being no.1 anything.

They all respect each other's body of work.
They are all professionals in the business of making music. And the cool thing is they put the piano up front and center as the instrument of choice.
Well said, Wolfie! ;\)

And I would like to stress that I do NOT consider Jerry Lee Lewis to be the "best" pop/rock pianist ever. If you've read this thread carefully, you'll know that I haven't proclaimed any one artist to be the "best". As to who is "best", is simply too subjective.

Every pianist we've discussed has their strengths and weaknesses. JLL could play with incredible energy, excitement and showmanship--but could never match up with Elton and Billy in the songwriting department.

As to who is TECHNICALLY a better pianist, will have to be decided by people who know far more about the instrument than I do.

I'd just like to say this is a GREAT thread, and thanks to all who have participated in it, whether I agree with them on certain points or not! \:\) [/b]
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#1137585 - 12/28/06 02:19 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Recent thread on Stevie Wonder... videos, pictures, interviews , discussion etc.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/37/704.html
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#1137586 - 12/28/06 02:37 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
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 Quote:
Originally posted by euclid10540:
Okay, so Neil Sedaka is one of the greats, or at least should be mentioned with the greatest....I personally feel Neil Sedaka is one of the grestest pop piano players ever
I can't argue with that! Well said! ;\)

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#1137587 - 12/28/06 04:22 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Astra Offline
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Wow, how many responses. \:\)
So, I would suggest something: Lets first choose pianists and then categories in which we would rate them.
Then each of us would tell in his opinion three best in each category and finally we would count the points and get the winner. I guess its obvius that I like statistics \:D
In case of pianists we should make a list of candidates and we should agree whether Ray Charles and similar belong to pop/rock pianists or not.
In case of categories I suggest two categories: tecnique and songwriting. But, if you have your opinion go ahead and tell.
And then we could tell the winner to add a title ˝Best poprock pianist, chosen by members of Non Classical Piano World Forum >˝ in his collections of awards \:\)
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#1137588 - 12/28/06 04:53 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Monica K. Offline

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I normally don't chime in on these "who's the best" threads, but I couldn't let a Neil Sedaka nomination go unchallenged. :rolleyes:

I'm surprised that nobody's nominated any women pop/rock pianists... imho Tori Amos and Vienna Teng belong right up there as pop artists with serious piano chops. And their music is more piano-centered, too, in a way that Neil Sedaka's never was.
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#1137589 - 12/28/06 05:35 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
hv Offline
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How about someone I'm up to my ears with at the moment? Laura Nyro. Unfortunately no longer with us. But I understand she believed in reincarnation.

Howard

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#1137590 - 12/28/06 06:35 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
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For songwriting, I don't see how anyone mentioned above could be placed before Stevie Wonder. That said, I would put Billy Joel a close second, he also has a very special gift for writing songs.

My understanding is that Elton did not write alot of his music.

For piano chops, I would put Joel 1st. He plays the pop stuff, but has composed classical music as well.

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#1137591 - 12/28/06 06:36 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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More pop than Rock is Burt Bacharach.
As a songwriter he has had quite a career so I'll throw him into the mix here. LOL.

http://www.themanfreds.com/images/With%20Burt%20Bacharach,%20Hal%20David,%20John%20Burgess.jpg


As for girls, I'll add Vanessa Carlton, Norah Jones, Michelle Branch. (Tori Amos already was named by Monica).
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#1137592 - 12/28/06 06:58 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Elton writes the music... and he is masterful at putting melodies to the lyrics written by others.
Elton is an incredible piano player/performer and sings nice to boot.

Billy Joel is a complete package in that he plays, writes, performs music. I do think Joel's body of work musically has more classical influences in them... watch him playing in those uptempo videos on the other threads. I think at times people dismiss Billy Joel because he has been so commercially pop stuff. But when you examine his total body of work, you will hear stuff that sounds classical, bluesy, jazzy, old time rock n roll, black spiritual, doo wop, country. And in many of Joels songs also you can hear stuff that sounds as if Elton wrote it.

Hence to me Joel and Elton are a close match as pianists and musicians. Both have done some amazing music and both do incredible concerts.
My regret was being ill when they came to my town during the Face to Face tour. I would love to see a Face to Face to Face tour with Billy, Elton, and Stevie. That would be a cool concert which I probably could not afford to see. LOL

I am not crazy about comparing artists either.
And after listening to one of the JLL videos the other night I can see why we cannot dismiss JLL. Though JLLs music doesn't have as wide a range as Wonder, Joel, and John's music. Jll certainly is the master when it comes to fast boogie stuff.
I was disappointed when I saw him on Letterman, as he did great balls of fire quite bit slower and with no great flourishing glissandos I have usually seen him include. Perhaps he was ill on that night. That video where he JLL is there with Waller, Ray Charles, and Albert Lee (guitarist) is incredible, I favorited it.

Here it is again... call it an encore linkage.

http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/Ray%2BCharles/video/xgrmr_ray-charles-jerry-lee-lewis-fats


 Quote:
Originally posted by pianokeys1000:
For songwriting, I don't see how anyone mentioned above could be placed before Stevie Wonder. That said, I would put Billy Joel a close second, he also has a very special gift for writing songs.

My understanding is that Elton did not write alot of his music.

For piano chops, I would put Joel 1st. He plays the pop stuff, but has composed classical music as well. [/b]
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#1137593 - 12/28/06 07:05 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
I normally don't chime in on these "who's the best" threads, but I couldn't let a Neil Sedaka nomination go unchallenged. I'm surprised that nobody's nominated any women pop/rock pianists... imho Tori Amos and Vienna Teng belong right up there as pop artists with serious piano chops. And their music is more piano-centered, too, in a way that Neil Sedaka's never was.
I already challenged Sedaka's nomination as "greatest" on page one of this thread, Monica. ;\) And if you look at the top of this page, you'll see that euclid appropriately recanted, and declared him "one of the greats"--which is a reasonable and accurate statement.

I'm quite familiar with Amos and Teng, but honestly can't consider either of them as "great", and nowhere near the "best". Their gender is an irrelevant factor in my judgement of them. \:\)

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#1137594 - 12/28/06 07:56 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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 Quote:
Originally posted by pianokeys1000:
For songwriting, I don't see how anyone mentioned above could be placed before Stevie Wonder. That said, I would put Billy Joel a close second, he also has a very special gift for writing songs.

My understanding is that Elton did not write alot of his music.

For piano chops, I would put Joel 1st. He plays the pop stuff, but has composed classical music as well.
According to the Recording Industry Association of America, Billy Joel has sold about 80 million albums/CD's in his career. Elton John has sold about 70 million. Which places them both in the top ten record sellers of all-time, in ANY genre of music.

Whereas Stevie Wonder has only sold about 20 million in a career that started before both Joel's and John's, and Stevie's nowhere near the top ten. So there are obviously millions of people who would take exception to your opinion that Wonder is the "best" songwriter of the three. \:\)

Elton John composes virtually ALL of his own MUSIC . He does NOT generally write his own LYRICS, which certainly is no strike against him as a songwriter.

World-famous composers such as George Gershwin, Richard Rodgers and Eddie Holland generally didn't write their own lyrics either. However, I don't think any sane person would challenge their stature as elite songwriters. ;\)

As for Joel having composed some classical music, which he himself admitted wasn't of the highest caliber, I just don't see what that has to do with his accomplishments as a POP/ROCK pianist.

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#1137595 - 12/28/06 08:06 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Both Elton and Billy Joel are great. No reason to put one over the other as far as piano performing goes.

As total packages go, Billy Joel still gets my top vote. But if Elton also could do lyrics as well as Joel can do pop lyrics... then I'd have a tough time choosing between these two for athe award of total package pianists.

I love them both equally right now... but that could change....
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#1137596 - 12/28/06 08:20 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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I think it just shows that Billy Joel has some serious composing chops. Composing classical works is tough work and takes skills and discipline. Also an ear for that kind of music.

However just because Elton hasn't sat down and wrote a classical work doesn't mean that he could not do it. "Funeral for a Friend" comes to my mind as something that sounds classical. And with today's software programs, he doesn't have to sit down and put pencil to notation paper, just play something that sounds classical and the computer can spit it out.

Just think what Mozart, Bach, and others could have done with computers, digital keyboards and such. But then again, they could get addicted to youtube and pianoworld also and write even less.

I think we should call it a tie myself between J&J ; I can think of reasons to name either of them the best pop/rock pianist. Stevie is great also... but not as prolific as Joel and John (J&J), hence though he is also a remarkable genius.

I also think it isn't good to dismiss Ray Charles (although J &J may both play better chops wise) ... like I said he showed many performers who followed him the way. His influence on popular music is immeasurable and he is a legendary genius of American music.




 Quote:
Originally posted by Music Lover:
[QUOTE]

As for Joel having composed some classical music, which he himself admitted wasn't of the highest caliber, I just don't see what that has to do with his accomplishments as a POP/ROCK pianist. [/b]
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#1137597 - 12/28/06 08:29 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
I am not crazy about comparing artists either.
And after listening to one of the JLL videos the other night I can see why we cannot dismiss JLL. Though JLLs music doesn't have as wide a range as Wonder, Joel, and John's music. Jll certainly is the master when it comes to fast boogie stuff.
I was disappointed when I saw him on Letterman, as he did great balls of fire quite bit slower and with no great flourishing glissandos I have usually seen him include. Perhaps he was ill on that night. That video where he JLL is there with Waller, Ray Charles, and Albert Lee (guitarist) is incredible, I favorited it.
There's nothing wrong with comparing artists. However, to do so in a meaningful way, I believe certain criteria have to be established beforehand. There needs to be agreement as to what qualities we will consider when judging them as pop/rock pianists.

As for JLL's less than stellar performance on Letterman, please remember that Jerry is now 71 years old. His "sweet bird of youth" has flown. We can't expect him to play with the energy and flair of his younger years. \:\)

Lastly, you mention "Waller" above. I believe you meant to say Fats Domino, who appears in the video you linked to. Fats Waller does NOT appear in the video. ;\)

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#1137598 - 12/28/06 08:50 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Music Lover:
 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
I am not crazy about comparing artists either.
And after listening to one of the JLL videos the other night I can see why we cannot dismiss JLL. Though JLLs music doesn't have as wide a range as Wonder, Joel, and John's music. Jll certainly is the master when it comes to fast boogie stuff.
I was disappointed when I saw him on Letterman, as he did great balls of fire quite bit slower and with no great flourishing glissandos I have usually seen him include. Perhaps he was ill on that night. That video where he JLL is there with Waller, Ray Charles, and Albert Lee (guitarist) is incredible, I favorited it.
There's nothing wrong with comparing artists. However, to do so in a meaningful way, I believe certain criteria have to be established beforehand. There needs to be agreement as to what qualities we will consider when judging them as pop/rock pianists.

As for JLL's less than stellar performance on Letterman, please remember that Jerry is now 71 years old. His "sweet bird of youth" has flown. We can't expect him to play with the energy and flair of his younger years. \:\)

Lastly, you mention "Waller" above. I believe you meant to say Fats Domino, who appears in the video you linked to. Fats Waller does NOT appear in the video. ;\) [/b]
You are right, got the two Fats mixed up. LOL

I'll see if I can find the Lettermen Performance.
The cool thing about it was he played it much slower so you could see more of what he does on the piano. He could have been sick or maybe he has arthritis.... he wasn't uses as much of the board as I recall.
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#1137599 - 12/28/06 08:56 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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If there were an awards presentation given out here for rock/pop pianists...Elton bests all for most bling and flamboyance! hehehe

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#1137600 - 12/28/06 09:00 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Jerry Lee Lewis on David Letterman; not bad consider he is getting up there in age

http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/searc...t-balls-of-fire
**********************************
Now Breathless...
Old Jerry Lee Lewis Video Clip --- "Breathless"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hArJfZbhDs
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#1137601 - 12/28/06 09:02 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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On above post...its not as bad as I remember it... it's cool to see it slowed down a bit. Especially, to watch how he (Jerry Lee Lewis) does his glissandos.
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#1137602 - 12/28/06 10:39 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Monica K. Offline

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Registered: 08/10/05
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Music Lover:
[QUOTE]I already challenged Sedaka's nomination as "greatest" on page one of this thread, Monica. ;\) And if you look at the top of this page, you'll see that euclid appropriately recanted, and declared him "one of the greats"--which is a reasonable and accurate statement.

I'm quite familiar with Amos and Teng, but honestly can't consider either of them as "great", and nowhere near the "best". Their gender is an irrelevant factor in my judgement of them. \:\) [/b]
Phew! I'm glad I'm not the only one who objected to Neil Sedaka being named the "greatest." Not sure I'd even buy "one of the greats," either.

It seems like a lot of the people being tossed around are nominated due to their talents for songwriting, which is a slightly different dimension to me than "pop/rock pianist." Which is why I named Tori Amos and Vienna Teng. (And I agree with you that their gender SHOULD be irrelevant to this discussion!) At least with them, when you listen to their music, the piano is first and foremost in every one of their pieces. That's not true of these other guys, which is why I think Amos and Teng are better rock PIANISTS. but that's jmho. ;\)
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#1137603 - 12/28/06 10:52 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Of course the true test for all of them...
is how long they will be remembered by the masses after they pass on. IMHO

 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Music Lover:
[QUOTE]I already challenged Sedaka's nomination as "greatest" on page one of this thread, Monica. ;\) And if you look at the top of this page, you'll see that euclid appropriately recanted, and declared him "one of the greats"--which is a reasonable and accurate statement.

I'm quite familiar with Amos and Teng, but honestly can't consider either of them as "great", and nowhere near the "best". Their gender is an irrelevant factor in my judgement of them. \:\) [/b]
Phew! I'm glad I'm not the only one who objected to Neil Sedaka being named the "greatest." Not sure I'd even buy "one of the greats," either.

It seems like a lot of the people being tossed around are nominated due to their talents for songwriting, which is a slightly different dimension to me than "pop/rock pianist." Which is why I named Tori Amos and Vienna Teng. (And I agree with you that their gender SHOULD be irrelevant to this discussion!) At least with them, when you listen to their music, the piano is first and foremost in every one of their pieces. That's not true of these other guys, which is why I think Amos and Teng are better rock PIANISTS. but that's jmho. ;\) [/b]
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#1137604 - 12/28/06 11:44 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
Phew! I'm glad I'm not the only one who objected to Neil Sedaka being named the "greatest." Not sure I'd even buy "one of the greats," either.
It seems like a lot of the people being tossed around are nominated due to their talents for songwriting, which is a slightly different dimension to me than "pop/rock pianist." Which is why I named Tori Amos and Vienna Teng. (And I agree with you that their gender SHOULD be irrelevant to this discussion!) At least with them, when you listen to their music, the piano is first and foremost in every one of their pieces. That's not true of these other guys, which is why I think Amos and Teng are better rock PIANISTS. but that's jmho.
I believe you're being a bit hard on Sedaka. Though I don't see how he could be considered the best, he was definitely a "top-tier" pop/rock pianist.

At the age of 16, Artur Rubinstein selected him as one of the top seven classical pianists in New York schools. Upon graduation from high school, he was promptly accepted at and enrolled at Juilliard.

If he were a slouch on piano, he would've never gotten in the door of such a prestigious institution. While at "Julie", his interest turned toward pop, rock and R&B. Though you personally may not like his music, there's no denying that even as a pop/rock composer/performer, the piano was his lead instrument on virtually every song he ever composed, played and recorded.

And with no offense intended, Monica, your statement that the piano was not "first and foremost" in the pieces of "these other guys"--is simply not accurate. \:\)

The piano was far and away the most prominent musical instrument in virtually every song that Elton John, Billy Joel and Jerry Lee Lewis ever wrote, played and recorded. At their live performances, their grand pianos were at centerstage. None of them was particularly admired for their vocal abilities. Their voices alone would've never made them pop/rock stars--their abilities at the piano did. ;\)

I just don't believe that Amos and Teng can be favorably compared to those three as pop/rock pianists.

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#1137605 - 12/28/06 11:53 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
ipgrunt Offline
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I'll mention a few contenders that seem to be ignored by this group.

Dr. John plays rings around Elton and Billy Joel.

Billy Preston played memorable key parts on many of the great rock and pop records of the late 1960s through early 1970s, including the Beatles Let It Be album. Hard to beat those credentials.

Al Kooper, who later went on to form Blood Sweat and Tears, was the organist on Bob Dylan's first big hit, "Like a Rolling Stone", and as a result his playing appears on dozens of milestone recordings of the golden age of rock.

But for me, Leon Russell is the man who taught us all how to play rock and roll piano. Leon gets my vote for the best and most influential rock pianist ever. Every rock pianist has borrowed from Leon, though few realize his contribution. Leon Russell was a member of LA's elite group of studio players known as "The Wrecking Crew" and appears on the major records of the 1960s, including those of the Beach Boys, Neil Young, The Byrds, Herb Alpert, The Rolling Stones, and Phil Spector's stable of hit makers. Anyone who recorded in LA during this period worked with Leon. His later work as a front man for Joe Cocker's Mad Dogs and Englismen Tour combined with his solo career taught us how to apply traditional gospel sounds to rocking blues. He's discovered and produced greats like Phoebe Snow, Lynard Skynard, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, and Concrete Blonde, and over the years has had many associations with industry greats like George Harrison, Willy Nelson, Freddy King, Jerry Lee Lewis, and many others. His songs have been recorded by many in other areas of the business, like Barbara Streisand and George Benson. You'd be hard pressed to find another pianist in all of pop music who's been as influential as Leon Russell.
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#1137606 - 12/29/06 01:45 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
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"I'll mention a few contenders that seem to be ignored by this group."

We're not ignoring anybody.[/b]

"Dr. John plays rings around Elton and Billy Joel."

Prove it. And Dr. John just never did a very good job at COMPOSING music at the piano. Joel and John are sixth and ninth, respectively, on the all-time album/CD sales list---which includes ALL genres of music. Perhaps his name should be "Dr. Who?".[/b] \:\)

"Billy Preston played memorable key parts on many of the great rock and pop records of the late 1960s through early 1970s, including the Beatles Let It Be album. Hard to beat those credentials."

Apparently you're not aware that we were discussing POP/ROCK ACOUSTIC PIANISTS. Billy Preston was known primarily for his work with the ELECTRIC piano and organ. He played ELECTRIC keyboards on a couple songs on each of the Beatle's last two albums. And as was the case with Dr. John, he just never accomplished much as a composer of his own songs. Much of his fame was gained by playing on OTHER ARTISTS COMPOSITIONS.[/b] \:D

"Al Kooper, who later went on to form Blood Sweat and Tears, was the organist on Bob Dylan's first big hit, "Like a Rolling Stone", and as a result his playing appears on dozens of milestone recordings of the golden age of rock."

Still trying to figure out how an ORGANIST can be considered for the title of "best pop/rock PIANIST". Perhaps you can explain! :p You're obviously not aware of the hard fact that Kooper was with BS&T only briefly, leaving the group after their first album. He was already gone when they achieved stardom. Kooper is yet another you've mentioned who never achieved much as a PIANO COMPOSER.[/b]

"But for me, Leon Russell is the man who taught us all how to play rock and roll piano. Leon gets my vote for the best and most influential rock pianist ever. Every rock pianist has borrowed from Leon, though few realize his contribution. Leon Russell was a member of LA's elite group of studio players known as "The Wrecking Crew" and appears on the major records of the 1960s, including those of the Beach Boys, Neil Young, The Byrds, Herb Alpert, The Rolling Stones, and Phil Spector's stable of hit makers. Anyone who recorded in LA during this period worked with Leon. His later work as a front man for Joe Cocker's Mad Dogs and Englismen Tour combined with his solo career taught us how to apply traditional gospel sounds to rocking blues. He's discovered and produced greats like Phoebe Snow, Lynard Skynard, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, and Concrete Blonde, and over the years has had many associations with industry greats like George Harrison, Willy Nelson, Freddy King, Jerry Lee Lewis, and many others. His songs have been recorded by many in other areas of the business, like Barbara Streisand and George Benson. You'd be hard pressed to find another pianist in all of pop music who's been as influential as Leon Russell."

Speak for yourself regarding your preposterous statement that Leon Russell is "the man who taught us all how to play rock and roll piano." Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard, Fats Domino etc. etc. were "smokin' the keys" on Rock, Blues, R&B and Pop piano when Leon Russell was barely a teenager. \:D

Leon learned just about everything he knows as a BACKUP player for the mighty Jerry Lee Lewis. Leon is yet another you've mentioned who was PRETTY WEAK as a composer. And he only played on SOME of the sessions of those big names you mentioned. He played on NOWHERE NEAR all of their recordings. And there were numerous recording studios in L.A. in the 1960's, so there are PLENTY of big names who recorded in L.A. at studios that Leon had NO AFFILIATION with. :p

Your input in this thread is welcome, but we want DOCUMENTATION for your proclamations. We don't accept any statements at face value here.[/b] ;\)

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#1137607 - 12/29/06 01:53 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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OK you both have at it. I will stay out of the fray. I'll just kick back and lurk from my den. When the dust settles and you have decided the official winner, I'll come around. LOL ;\)
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#1137608 - 12/29/06 02:06 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Leon Russell sure looks like a crazy dude...
I just had to look didn't I

Back to the den, I'll sleep with one eye open tonight.

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#1137609 - 12/29/06 02:14 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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I found a link about Leon Russell Career.
Interesting fellow. I love his tune "A song for you" btw.

http://www.leonrussellrecords.com/memory_lane.shtml

Oh... Billy Preston also did play piano but he is a legend when it comes to playing his Hammond B3. For the record.

Just thought I would pass the link along... and I'll start a thread just for Leon also.




 Quote:
Originally posted by ipgrunt:
I'll mention a few contenders that seem to be ignored by this group.

Dr. John plays rings around Elton and Billy Joel.

Billy Preston played memorable key parts on many of the great rock and pop records of the late 1960s through early 1970s, including the Beatles Let It Be album. Hard to beat those credentials.

Al Kooper, who later went on to form Blood Sweat and Tears, was the organist on Bob Dylan's first big hit, "Like a Rolling Stone", and as a result his playing appears on dozens of milestone recordings of the golden age of rock.

But for me, Leon Russell is the man who taught us all how to play rock and roll piano. Leon gets my vote for the best and most influential rock pianist ever. Every rock pianist has borrowed from Leon, though few realize his contribution. Leon Russell was a member of LA's elite group of studio players known as "The Wrecking Crew" and appears on the major records of the 1960s, including those of the Beach Boys, Neil Young, The Byrds, Herb Alpert, The Rolling Stones, and Phil Spector's stable of hit makers. Anyone who recorded in LA during this period worked with Leon. His later work as a front man for Joe Cocker's Mad Dogs and Englismen Tour combined with his solo career taught us how to apply traditional gospel sounds to rocking blues. He's discovered and produced greats like Phoebe Snow, Lynard Skynard, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, and Concrete Blonde, and over the years has had many associations with industry greats like George Harrison, Willy Nelson, Freddy King, Jerry Lee Lewis, and many others. His songs have been recorded by many in other areas of the business, like Barbara Streisand and George Benson. You'd be hard pressed to find another pianist in all of pop music who's been as influential as Leon Russell. [/b]
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#1137610 - 12/29/06 02:18 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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Registered: 07/26/06
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 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
OK you both have at it. I will stay out of the fray. I'll just kick back and lurk from my den. When the dust settles and you have decided the official winner, I'll come around.
I don't mean to be hard on him, and I'm sure he's not a bad person. I hope there aren't any hard feelings.

But he doesn't need to come in this thread with an attitude, like we're "ignoring" the ones he mentioned, and he then disses two living legends of pop/rock piano like John and Joel. Then he proclaims his choices as the "greatest", providing virtually no documentation to support his selections, and some of them aren't even known for their work on the acoustic piano.

If he disagrees with me and the others on this thread, more power to him. But give us some documentation, not proclamations. \:\)

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#1137611 - 12/29/06 02:26 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
Oh... Billy Preston also did play piano but he is a legend when it comes to playing his Hammond B3. For the record.
Yes, I'm well aware that Billy Preston was a fine acoustic piano player. But he achieved little notoriety with the instrument. \:\)

His claim to fame was on organs and electric pianos. As you mentioned, primarily the Hammond B3 organ. ;\)

I own a number of his recordings, and think highly of him.

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#1137612 - 12/29/06 02:34 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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I knew you would know that. ;\) But some folks may not so I decided to post it for others.

I wouldn't say Billy Preston acheived little "notoritety" for his piano work. He got a grammy for With You I Am Born Again... composed for the piano.

JMHO




 Quote:
Originally posted by Music Lover:
 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
Oh... Billy Preston also did play piano but he is a legend when it comes to playing his Hammond B3. For the record.
Yes, I'm well aware that Billy Preston was a fine acoustic piano player. But he achieved little notoriety with the instrument. \:\)

His claim to fame was on organs and electric pianos. As you mentioned, primarily the Hammond B3 organ. ;\)

I own a number of his recordings, and think highly of him. [/b]
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#1137613 - 12/29/06 02:44 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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Registered: 07/26/06
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 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
I found a link about Leon Russell Career.
Interesting fellow. I love his tune "A song for you" btw.
I like Leon Russell, and agree he was a talented session pianist in his younger days. However, he just never hit the big-time like Joel, Elton and numerous others. His solo career was somewhat of a "flash in the pan".

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#1137614 - 12/29/06 03:03 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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I think all of the others, Elton, Billy Joel, Billy Preston, Ray Charles and Jerry Lee Lewis I would rank higher than Leon Russell.

Jerry Lee Lewis does Great Balls of Fire Much Better than what was on that video I found tonight. Sorry to disagree with the member who digs Leon Russell, Leon Russell isn't in the top 5 in my book. But that's just my opinion.

Nighty night.
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#1137615 - 12/29/06 03:05 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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Registered: 07/26/06
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 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
I wouldn't say Billy Preston acheived little "notoritety" for his piano work. He got a grammy for With You I Am Born Again... composed for the piano.
He never won a grammy for "With You I Am Born Again", which was a duet that was co-written and co-performed by R&B singer/songwriter Syreeta Wright. She was briefly married to Stevie Wonder in the early 70's, and co-wrote a few of Wonder's hits in the 70's. ;\)

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#1137616 - 12/29/06 03:10 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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Registered: 07/26/06
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 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
I think all of the others, Elton, Billy Joel, Billy Preston, Ray Charles and Jerry Lee Lewis I would rank higher than Leon Russell.

Jerry Lee Lewis does Great Balls of Fire Much Better than what was on that video I found tonight. Sorry to disagree with the member who digs Leon Russell, Leon Russell isn't in the top 5 in my book. But that's just my opinion.
Well said, Wolfie! I agree completely. \:\)

Russell was a fine session pianist worthy of our respect, and wrote a few hits of note, primarily for other artists. But he simply doesn't live up to the title of "best pop/rock pianist ever".

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#1137617 - 12/29/06 03:14 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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I thought I read the other night that he did...
I'll have to re-read the article but for now I'll take your word for it.

I still wouldn't dismiss him as Billy Preston a great pianist; though on that Hammond B he rules the world. JMO and (just kidding).

So can I pin you down as to which pianist you feel is the best pop/rock artist as you seem to
have very strong opinions on the top 5 folks we are discussing. Who if you must choose woule you place as #1 . You don't seem to hold Billy Joel up as high as the one spot. Or Ray Charles. Or Billy Preston.

It seems so far you keep mentioning JLL and Elton. I will guess you lean towards Elton for #1, have I guessed right?

I need to check out, I am not feeling well again.
I hate being ill and not being able to sleep well. It's been a fun and enlightening thread.




 Quote:
Originally posted by Music Lover:
 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
I wouldn't say Billy Preston acheived little "notoritety" for his piano work. He got a grammy for With You I Am Born Again... composed for the piano.
He never won a grammy for "With You I Am Born Again", which was a duet that was co-written and co-performed by R&B singer/songwriter Syreeta Wright. She was briefly married to Stevie Wonder in the early 70's, and co-wrote a few of Wonder's hits in the 70's. ;\) [/b]
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#1137618 - 12/29/06 03:18 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Ok; he won his grammy on his Outa space tune.
Organ?

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10503919/eclectic_talent_billy_preston_dead_at_59

I couldn't sleep without checking that out. LOL
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#1137619 - 12/29/06 03:29 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
I hate being ill and not being able to sleep well.
Very sorry to hear you're not feeling well, Wolfie. \:\( I hope your illness is only temporary.

Get well soon, and thank you so much for the interesting threads and great video clips! \:\)

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#1137620 - 12/29/06 04:57 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Monica K. Offline

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Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17786
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Music Lover:
I believe you're being a bit hard on Sedaka. Though I don't see how he could be considered the best, he was definitely a "top-tier" pop/rock pianist.

...I just don't believe that Amos and Teng can be favorably compared to those three as pop/rock pianists. [/b]
[remembers why she avoids these "who's the best XXXX" threads]

Okay, okay, I give up: Tori Amos and Vienna Teng are toejam on Neil Sedaka's feet. \:D

The trouble is that I have a hard time differentiating talent/skill/artistic ability from my own personal taste. I can barely tolerate Neil Sedaka's pop songs, whereas I love everything about Amos's and Teng's work--dark lyrics, melody, beautiful voices, prominent piano accompinament. So I will be the first to admit I have a hard time acknowledging Sedaka's greatness. I'll wait for somebody to start a "who's your FAVORITE pop/rock pianists?" and then I'll chime in again. ;\)
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#1137621 - 12/29/06 05:24 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
euclid10540 Offline
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Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 22
Monica,

My personal favorite female pop/rock piano player is Carole King, subject of Neil Sedaka's first successful single, "Oh, Carol". I would submit that Ms. King is also an excellent singer/song writer and pianist.

I guess I'm showing my age.

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#1137622 - 12/29/06 05:49 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
AJB Offline
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Having cruised through this thread I am surprised by the Joel/John dominance. That said, I am hard pressed to think of anyone else who comes close in modern times (Ray Charles is well before my time and Steveie Wonder is just awful as a pianist - plinky plunky and with negligible technique). It is amazing really that I could reel off lots of classical players of renown, but so few really good pop / rock pianists. More than anything I think thsi highlights that teh piano does not have a huge role in pop, as compared with guitar and vocals.

I know little about Elton or Billy beyond their songs, but both come across as having been classically trained. With Billy this is most apparent from the sound - lots of classical influences. With Elton, having had to play a number of his songs using original scores, it is evident that he has a fondness for keys that are not typical of the pop genre. But I prefer his early work when Taupin was teh lyricist. And Elton's songs sound good on guitar too - so maybe it is the lyrics that are doing most of the work in driving his most memorable tunes? For example, Your Song sound best on guitar to me. And Candle in the Wind has become sentimetal drivel aftyer being used for Princess Diana's funeral.

In the popualr music field, if one can include musicals, then Andrew Lloyd Webber must feature. He apparently composes on piano and has had many hits. His classical influences are clear.

I am a classical pianist (but rock guitarist) and from my perspective Elton's songs have a simpler structure and are more lyric based. Very commercial. Billy's are more of an all round package of music and lyrics, and for that reason I would rate him higher.

However, if one widens the question to keyboard players as opposedto just pianists, then the rock field certainly has some very skilled performers to consider. But they use organs, pianos and synths. Keith Emerson and Rick Wakeman have already been mentioned (both classically trained) and I also like a lot of Jon Lords work with Deep Purple (though the star was Ritchie Blackmore without a shadow of a doubt).

There are some pretty cool players around in the jazz arena too. I often admire the jazz player's skill with chord voicings (this applies to both guitar and piano) - but of course this is neither pop nor rock.

Adrian
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#1137623 - 12/29/06 06:35 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
[remembers why she avoids these "who's the best XXXX" threads]

Okay, okay, I give up: Tori Amos and Vienna Teng are toejam on Neil Sedaka's feet.

The trouble is that I have a hard time differentiating talent/skill/artistic ability from my own personal taste. I can barely tolerate Neil Sedaka's pop songs, whereas I love everything about Amos's and Teng's work--dark lyrics, melody, beautiful voices, prominent piano accompinament. So I will be the first to admit I have a hard time acknowledging Sedaka's greatness. I'll wait for somebody to start a "who's your FAVORITE pop/rock pianists?" and then I'll chime in again.
I never made a comparison between Sedaka and Amos/Teng. So nobody has said or implied that they are "toejam" compared to Sedaka. Like you, I'm generally not a huge fan of his usually light pop music myself. ;\)

However, millions are--because Sedaka IS one of the most successful pop songwriters in history, with a career that has lasted around 50 years now. Whether you and I like him or not! \:D

But as to Sedaka's abilities on piano, I will have to defer to Artur Rubinstein's judgement. Sedaka IS a fine pianist. Certainly NOT the best, but very good indeed. \:\)

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#1137624 - 12/29/06 07:33 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
pianokeys1000 Offline
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Posts: 83
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Music Lover said:
 Quote:

According to the Recording Industry Association of America, Billy Joel has sold about 80 million albums/CD's in his career. Elton John has sold about 70 million. Which places them both in the top ten record sellers of all-time, in ANY genre of music.

Whereas Stevie Wonder has only sold about 20 million in a career that started before both Joel's and John's, and Stevie's nowhere near the top ten. So there are obviously millions of people who would take exception to your opinion that Wonder is the "best" songwriter of the three.
C'mon, man...anyone that knows music knows that sales are far from the sole indicator as to the quality of music or song writing. I gave my opinion.

Actually, you made my point in your initial post to this thread:
 Quote:

From a sales perspective, Billy Joel has sold more records/CD's than any other pop/rock piano player in history. However, that doesn't necessarily mean his music is the "best".

As to who made the "best" music is a matter of personal preference and opinion.
 Quote:

Elton John composes virtually ALL of his own MUSIC . He does NOT generally write his own LYRICS, which certainly is no strike against him as a songwriter.
I agree it's not a strike against him and countless songs are the result of collaborative effort, but to me it does knock him a little bit beneath a guy like Joel who writes the lyrics and music. Again...my opinion.

 Quote:

As for Joel having composed some classical music, which he himself admitted wasn't of the highest caliber, I just don't see what that has to do with his accomplishments as a POP/ROCK pianist.
I think it speaks to the range of his pianistic skills in comparison to the others. Perhaps others could have done it too, but they didn't. He did. I think it counts for something.

Ryan

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#1137625 - 12/29/06 07:45 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Here is my favorite (BILLY JOEL) showing his chops...
ROOT BEAR RAG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF9D3wnxfvQ

Can anybody else named so far play this insanely?
That poor piano got a true workout on this performance. Watch this clip and see some incredible playing going down.

BTW there is now an OFFICIAL thread to nominate your favorite pop/rock pianist.
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#1137626 - 12/29/06 07:50 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Go to this link and nominate your FAVORITE pop/rock pianists....

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/37/724.html#000001

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#1137627 - 12/29/06 08:17 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Billy Joel Playing live: his song... HONESTY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFlmWsLuOWE
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#1137628 - 12/29/06 08:21 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
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No need to say any more.....I'll just contribute this from my previous thread:

The End Of The Contest

When's the last time Billy Joel, Elton John, Dr. John, Ray Charles, Billy Preston, Leon Russell or, especially, Jerry Lee Lewis, did anything even remotely approaching this?
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#1137629 - 12/29/06 09:22 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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Monica! Looky what I found... a picture of Billy Joel & Tori Amos together.



 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Music Lover:
I believe you're being a bit hard on Sedaka. Though I don't see how he could be considered the best, he was definitely a "top-tier" pop/rock pianist.

...I just don't believe that Amos and Teng can be favorably compared to those three as pop/rock pianists. [/b]
[remembers why she avoids these "who's the best XXXX" threads]

Okay, okay, I give up: Tori Amos and Vienna Teng are toejam on Neil Sedaka's feet. \:D

The trouble is that I have a hard time differentiating talent/skill/artistic ability from my own personal taste. I can barely tolerate Neil Sedaka's pop songs, whereas I love everything about Amos's and Teng's work--dark lyrics, melody, beautiful voices, prominent piano accompinament. So I will be the first to admit I have a hard time acknowledging Sedaka's greatness. I'll wait for somebody to start a "who's your FAVORITE pop/rock pianists?" and then I'll chime in again. ;\) [/b]
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#1137630 - 12/29/06 09:42 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
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You need to go to the thread and nominate him.
Right now we have 1 nomination vote for Billy and 1 for Keith. You want Keith to be the one... go vote for him and state your case if you care to there. Keith is good, so why hasn't he gotten the kind of promotions Elton, Joel, Charles and JLL have had?

 Quote:
Originally posted by CC2 and Chopin lover:
No need to say any more.....I'll just contribute this from my previous thread:

The End Of The Contest

When's the last time Billy Joel, Elton John, Dr. John, Ray Charles, Billy Preston, Leon Russell or, especially, Jerry Lee Lewis, did anything even remotely approaching this? [/b]
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#1137631 - 12/29/06 10:15 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
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 Quote:
Originally posted by AJB:
Stevie Wonder is just awful as a pianist - plinky plunky and with negligible technique).
Well said and so very true, AJB! I agree with you 100%. I own several of his albums, and I saw the man perform live when he was in his 70's prime. I concur with you completely that his piano playing STINKS. He is technically deplorable, and there are quite a few pop/rock pianists who were/are more creative.

Just because one can compose songs at the piano, does NOT make him an outstanding pianist, and certainly not the "best ever"--which Wonder is nowhere even close to being.

Paul McCartney has written many beautiful songs, some of which he composed at the piano. I'm a huge McCartney fan, but if anybody tried to tell me he was the best pop/rock pianist ever, I would have to laugh--and I'm laughing right now at the suggestion that Wonder is the best.

Stevie Wonder ISN'T EVEN CLOSE!

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#1137632 - 12/29/06 10:31 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by CC2 and Chopin lover:
No need to say any more.....I'll just contribute this from my previous thread:

The End Of The Contest

When's the last time Billy Joel, Elton John, Dr. John, Ray Charles, Billy Preston, Leon Russell or, especially, Jerry Lee Lewis, did anything even remotely approaching this?
Unfortunately, the fact that we aren't judging these pianists solely by their technical ability blew right over your head. ;\)

So we'll place your post in the "For What It's Worth" round file immediately. \:D

So the "contest" is nowhere near its end--it has barely begun! :p

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#1137633 - 12/29/06 10:37 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianokeys1000:
I think it speaks to the range of his pianistic skills in comparison to the others. Perhaps others could have done it too, but they didn't. He did. I think it counts for something.
Having composed very mediocre (at best) CLASSICAL music, has absolutely NOTHING to do with determining one's stature as a POP/ROCK pianist.

It counts for NOTHING. ;\)

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#1137634 - 12/29/06 10:38 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
ARIAS Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 122
Loc: Tampa Bay
[qb] Billy Joel Playing live: his song... ROOT BEER RAG \:D ALL THE WAY!
And while we're on the subject of RAGS........how about a vote for SCOTT JOPLIN? \:D
Also I always thought Bruce Hornsby was great plowing away on that Steinway doing the song "That's the Way it is" Too bad he didn't do a whole lot after that. Whatever happened to him?

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#1137635 - 12/29/06 10:54 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
I am embarrassed to admit that I forgot to mention my Favorite female pop/rock pianist (who is incredible as a song writer to boot. She wrote "Crying in The Rain" for the Everly Bros.

For that I shall start another thread just for her. Tomorrow.

 Quote:
Originally posted by euclid10540:
Monica,

My personal favorite female pop/rock piano player is Carole King, subject of Neil Sedaka's first successful single, "Oh, Carol". I would submit that Ms. King is also an excellent singer/song writer and pianist.

I guess I'm showing my age. [/b]
_________________________
I have my own weapon of mass destruction in the form of a "teenage" German Shepherd. Anything she spies and can get ahold of is fair game.

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#1137636 - 12/29/06 10:59 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianokeys1000:
Actually, you made my point in your initial post to this thread:

From a sales perspective, Billy Joel has sold more records/CD's than any other pop/rock piano player in history. However, that doesn't necessarily mean his music is the "best". As to who made the "best" music is a matter of personal preference and opinion.
No, I didn't make your point at all. \:\)

We are attempting to determine who is the BEST POP/ROCK PIANIST---NOT who has produced the "best" music.

Even IF I conceded the point that Wonder makes the "best" music, which I will NEVER concede--the hard fact remains that it does NOT make him the best pop/rock PIANIST ever.

We are looking for the best Pop/Rock PIANIST--nothing more and nothing less.

As others besides myself have already noted, Stevie Wonder is TECHNICALLY a mediocre (at best) pianist--which CAN be proven by visual and audio evaluation of his technique.

As to whether his MUSIC is "better", is completely subjective and can NEVER be proven. And even if it could be, it would still do virtually nothing to "prove" that he is the "best" pop/rock pianist ever. ;\)

I hope we are on the same page now! \:D

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#1137637 - 12/29/06 11:01 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
euclid10540 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 22
Submitted for your approval:

Neil Sedaka playing Chopin's Fantaisie Impromptu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bChTFWUKxlQ

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#1137638 - 12/29/06 11:02 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
Scott Joplin is in the wrong Era and genre... but he has written some spectacular rags.

Maybe someone should send in a nomination for Hornsby. Elton thinks highly of Bruce as a player as do many pro musicians out there.

Be sure to vote for your fav. on that VOTE thread!

 Quote:
Originally posted by ARIAS:
[qb] Billy Joel Playing live: his song... ROOT BEER RAG \:D ALL THE WAY!
And while we're on the subject of RAGS........how about a vote for SCOTT JOPLIN? \:D
Also I always thought Bruce Hornsby was great plowing away on that Steinway doing the song "That's the Way it is" Too bad he didn't do a whole lot after that. Whatever happened to him? [/b]
_________________________
I have my own weapon of mass destruction in the form of a "teenage" German Shepherd. Anything she spies and can get ahold of is fair game.

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#1137639 - 12/29/06 11:03 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Mountain Ash Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 423
Loc: Canberra, Australia
I think one thing that sets Elton apart from the rest is his ability to create interest with the piano behind the lyrics.

While many players, Billy Joel included (I am a fan BTW) often resort to block chords after the introducton, but Elton has an amazing style made up of all sorts of chords, arpeggios and riffs that make him a treat to listen to.

I have recordings of both Joel and John playing their hit songs with piano only, and I can tell you they are both awsome, but Elton is just amazing.

I can't comment on the rest, as I havn't heard enough to make a judgement.
_________________________
I'm reading this book.

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#1137640 - 12/29/06 11:30 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
Mountain Ash:

Well said! I agree with virtually everything you posted. I too prefer Elton over Billy--with no disrespect intended toward Joel.

Elton's melodies reach further down in my soul than Billy's. Elton can produce very beautiful, sensitive pieces like "Candle in the Wind"--as well as really rocking tunes like "Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting".

I still can't make a final determination as to who I feel is the best pop/rock pianist ever, but Elton will get my vote before Billy does.

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#1137641 - 12/29/06 11:30 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
euclid10540 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 22
Submitted for your Approval #2:

Neil Sedaka sings and plays Honey of My Life, lyrics he wrote based on Beethoven's "Fur Elise". Just Neil's voice and piano, nothing else. I'm sure you're all familiar with this piece.

http://www.box.net/public/poqgsdgtnp

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#1137642 - 12/29/06 11:43 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by euclid10540:
Submitted for your approval: Neil Sedaka playing Chopin's Fantaisie Impromptu
Very nice, Euclid! I approve, I approve! \:D

Though he won't get my vote as the best pop/rock pianist ever--he is certainly a fine classical pianist worthy of our respect.

Thanks for the video! \:\)

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#1137643 - 12/29/06 11:49 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by ARIAS:
And while we're on the subject of RAGS........how about a vote for SCOTT JOPLIN?
Excellent taste, ARIAS!

However, as Wolfie already mentioned, we are considering only pop/rock pianists of the rock era--the last half century.

Perhaps Wolfie will start a new thread soon, where we can take nominations for best pop/jazz/ragtime pianist of the 19th and first half of the 20th century. ;\)

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#1137644 - 12/30/06 01:15 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
 Quote:
Originally posted by Music Lover:
 Quote:
Originally posted by ARIAS:
And while we're on the subject of RAGS........how about a vote for SCOTT JOPLIN?
Excellent taste, ARIAS!

However, as Wolfie already mentioned, we are considering only pop/rock pianists of the rock era--the last half century.

Perhaps Wolfie will start a new thread soon, where we can take nominations for best pop/jazz/ragtime pianist of the 19th and first half of the 20th century. ;\) [/b]
_________________________
I have my own weapon of mass destruction in the form of a "teenage" German Shepherd. Anything she spies and can get ahold of is fair game.

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#1137645 - 12/30/06 01:20 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
I have my hands full already with the 50's to the new millenium! Yikes, Music Lover. Maybe you could do that one after this one gets well underway. Or maybe later after this thread concludes we can go back further to Ragtime/Blues/Jazz?

I already do know my #1 female musician (who else but Ella Fitzgerald).




 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Music Lover:
 Quote:
Originally posted by ARIAS:
And while we're on the subject of RAGS........how about a vote for SCOTT JOPLIN?
Excellent taste, ARIAS!

However, as Wolfie already mentioned, we are considering only pop/rock pianists of the rock era--the last half century.

Perhaps Wolfie will start a new thread soon, where we can take nominations for best pop/jazz/ragtime pianist of the 19th and first half of the 20th century. ;\) [/b]
[/b]
_________________________
I have my own weapon of mass destruction in the form of a "teenage" German Shepherd. Anything she spies and can get ahold of is fair game.

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#1137646 - 12/30/06 03:03 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
J. Mark Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1323
 Quote:
Originally posted by ipgrunt:
...like Barbara Streisand ...[/b]
Um...it's Barbra. Sorry. I just happen to worship her, and that's the correct spelling.

\:\)

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#1137647 - 12/30/06 03:34 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by J. Mark:
Um...it's Barbra. Sorry. I just happen to worship her, and that's the correct spelling.
Her given name at birth was Barbara. For show-biz purposes, she started going by Barbra. I don't know if she ever legally changed it to Barbra or not. Perhaps you do.

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#1137648 - 12/30/06 12:13 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
markjpcs Offline


Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 3170
Loc: Wisconsin
 Quote:
Originally posted by The Emperor:
Keith Emerson, Tony Banks, Rick Wright, Rick Wakeman...big fan of 70's prog rock \:\) [/b]
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#1137649 - 12/30/06 02:48 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
Music Lover said:

 Quote:
Unfortunately, the fact that we aren't judging these pianists solely by their technical ability blew right over your head. ;\)[/b]
 Quote:
So we'll place your post in the "For What It's Worth" round file immediately. [Big Grin][/b]
Your musical ignorance is exceeded only by your arrogance. Anyone who would put Jerry Lee Lewis ahead of ANYONE in a great rock pianist contest is really making that very evident.
_________________________
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#1137650 - 12/30/06 07:31 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
Thanks for sharing it.


 Quote:
Originally posted by euclid10540:
Submitted for your approval:

Neil Sedaka playing Chopin's Fantaisie Impromptu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bChTFWUKxlQ [/b]
_________________________
I have my own weapon of mass destruction in the form of a "teenage" German Shepherd. Anything she spies and can get ahold of is fair game.

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#1137651 - 01/01/07 04:58 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by CC2 and Chopin lover:
Your musical ignorance is exceeded only by your arrogance. Anyone who would put Jerry Lee Lewis ahead of ANYONE in a great rock pianist contest is really making that very evident.
Your personal attack/flame has been noted. I'm not going to stoop to your level by responding in a similar way.

Out of respect for Wolfie and the other thread participants, I will refrain from addressing your attack in this particular thread.

However, I will shortly be posting extensive documentation in the Jerry Lee Lewis thread, that will prove beyond a doubt that your above statements are rubbish.

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#1137652 - 01/01/07 08:08 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
Wise choice on your part. Throwing my original post in the "For What It's Worth" round file, as you put it, was arrogant and unnecessarily disrespectful of you. Choosing not to have it out with me is the first good choice you've made on this thread. Go ahead and waste your time attempting to prove how much "greater" Jerry Lee Lewis is than Keith Emerson......this should be hilarious.
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#1137653 - 01/01/07 02:19 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
pianokeys1000 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 83
Loc: Upstate NY
 Quote:

This thread is about who is the best pianist, not the most influential musician.
 Quote:

Prove it. And Dr. John just never did a very good job at COMPOSING music at the piano. Joel and John are sixth and ninth, respectively, on the all-time album/CD sales list---which includes ALL genres of music. Perhaps his name should be "Dr. Who?".
 Quote:

Apparently you're not aware that we were discussing POP/ROCK ACOUSTIC PIANISTS.
 Quote:

Your input in this thread is welcome, but we want DOCUMENTATION for your proclamations. We don't accept any statements at face value here.
 Quote:

Speak for yourself regarding your preposterous statement that Leon Russell is "the man who taught us all how to play rock and roll piano."
 Quote:

Unfortunately, the fact that we aren't judging these pianists solely by their technical ability blew right over your head.

So we'll place your post in the "For What It's Worth" round file immediately.
 Quote:

Having composed very mediocre (at best) CLASSICAL music, has absolutely NOTHING to do with determining one's stature as a POP/ROCK pianist.

It counts for NOTHING.
 Quote:

No, I didn't make your point at all.

We are attempting to determine who is the BEST POP/ROCK PIANIST---NOT who has produced the "best" music.

Even IF I conceded the point that Wonder makes the "best" music, which I will NEVER concede--the hard fact remains that it does NOT make him the best pop/rock PIANIST ever.

We are looking for the best Pop/Rock PIANIST--nothing more and nothing less.

As others besides myself have already noted, Stevie Wonder is TECHNICALLY a mediocre (at best) pianist--which CAN be proven by visual and audio evaluation of his technique.

As to whether his MUSIC is "better", is completely subjective and can NEVER be proven. And even if it could be, it would still do virtually nothing to "prove" that he is the "best" pop/rock pianist ever.
 Quote:

Stevie Wonder ISN'T EVEN CLOSE!
Music Lover, if you are going for arrogant and condescending, you have achieved your goal. The forum is a place for opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own. It's not your job to police what people post and approve or kill the thoughts of other members, which is what you've been doing. It's fine if you disagree, but you don't have to come off like that. It's unnecessary.

Ryan

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#1137654 - 01/01/07 02:34 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
ARIAS Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 122
Loc: Tampa Bay
Hey Guys .........Cool it![/b]
Knock off the bickering!
Are y'all suffering from a bad hangover
or something? \:D

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#1137655 - 01/02/07 05:02 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by CC2 and Chopin lover:
Wise choice on your part. Throwing my original post in the "For What It's Worth" round file, as you put it, was arrogant and unnecessarily disrespectful of you. Choosing not to have it out with me is the first good choice you've made on this thread. Go ahead and waste your time attempting to prove how much "greater" Jerry Lee Lewis is than Keith Emerson......this should be hilarious.
You drew first blood and proved your own arrogance and ignorance, with your following post which I've quoted below---where you proclaim "No need to say anymore" and "The End of the Contest", like we're supposed to fall down at yours and Emerson's feet (ROTFLMAO! \:D )---then you take a verbal swipe at everybody elses choices, with a special swipe aimed at me.

By the way, what Emerson is playing on that video clip is neither pop nor rock music. So your clip proves NOTHING as to who is the "best" POP/ROCK pianist.

You calling anybody arrogant and ignorant is definitely a severe case of the pot calling the kettle black. Plus the fact that you launched a personal attack/flame, a clear violation of forum rules. Your own words have proven you a hypocrite.[/b]

 Quote:
Originally posted by CC2 and Chopin lover:
No need to say any more.....I'll just contribute this from my previous thread:

The End Of The Contest

When's the last time Billy Joel, Elton John, Dr. John, Ray Charles, Billy Preston, Leon Russell or, especially, Jerry Lee Lewis, did anything even remotely approaching this?
Keith Emerson's not in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, even though he has been eligible for years. Jerry Lee went in with the first group the first year.

Keith Emerson has never received a Lifetime Achievement Award from the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences. Jerry Lee has, only one of 125 such awards worldwide in the 50 year history of NARAS.

Keith Emerson has never been honored by the Smithsonian Institute for his piano playing. Jerry Lee has.

Keith Emerson has never had a major Hollywood motion picture made about his life. Jerry Lee has--"Great Balls of Fire" (1989), starring well-known actor Dennis Quaid.

NEXT! \:D [/b]

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#1137656 - 01/02/07 05:40 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianokeys1000:
Music Lover, if you are going for arrogant and condescending, you have achieved your goal. The forum is a place for opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own. It's not your job to police what people post and approve or kill the thoughts of other members, which is what you've been doing. It's fine if you disagree, but you don't have to come off like that. It's unnecessary.
What is unneccessary is your whining and false accusations.

Please show me PRECISELY where I stated you or anybody else in this thread were not entitled to their own opinion. I want the exact quote, plus the time and date of the post.

I am NOT "policing" anybody's posts. You are free to post whatever you wish. I do not own or run this forum, so it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to police and silence you or anybody else.

I have NEVER told you or anybody else what you can or cannot post. I have NEVER told you to shut up. I have NEVER stated that you are not entitled to your own opinion.

You came into this thread, arrogantly proclaiming that you just didn't see how ANYBODY'S songwriting could compare with Stevie Wonder, like God died and Stevie took his place or something. First of all, this thread is clearly about who is the BEST POP/ROCK PIANIST. Mr. Wonder's songwriting has NOTHING to do with being the best pop/rock pianist of all time.

Then you made the statement that it was your "understanding" Elton John did not write a lot of his own music, which is demonstrably false. Over the years, Elton has composed the vast majority of his own music.

Please feel free to post WHATEVER you wish, and get some intellectual honesty while you're at it. \:D

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#1137657 - 01/02/07 06:34 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Mountain Ash Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 423
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Well I think it's pretty obvious that personal preference is the main consideration here and I don't think we'll be able to come up with an agreed ranking. All I can say is I wish there were more of these pop/rock pianists around NOW!

Oh and Elton Stole his famous riff from Leon Russell. He stole it fair and square, and he admits it too.

http://www.rickmcgrath.com/eltonjohn.html
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#1137658 - 01/02/07 06:48 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
pianokeys1000 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 83
Loc: Upstate NY
 Quote:

First of all, this thread is clearly about who is the BEST POP/ROCK PIANIST. Mr. Wonder's songwriting has NOTHING to do with being the best pop/rock pianist of all time.
Again, "policing" threads. This is a public forum. I made a comment based on my opinion.

It's not your job to tell people what is or is not relevant to the thread. People post what comes to mind.

 Quote:

You came into this thread, arrogantly proclaiming that you just didn't see how ANYBODY'S songwriting could compare with Stevie Wonder
Never said that. Besides, what is arrogant about stating one's opinion?

Check the facts. I said "For songwriting, I don't see how anyone mentioned above could be placed before Stevie Wonder".[/b]

I never said that no one's songwriting could COMPARE. Big difference. If a gun were put to my head I like Stevie's music better. Then Billy's, then Elton's. That's all I was saying. But I shouldn't have to explain that.

I know for a fact that I am not the only one who is put off by your arrogant and condescending posts.

Music lover said:[/b]

 Quote:

This thread is about who is the best pianist, not the most influential musician.
 Quote:

Apparently you're not aware that we were discussing POP/ROCK ACOUSTIC PIANISTS.
 Quote:

Unfortunately, the fact that we aren't judging these pianists solely by their technical ability blew right over your head.

So we'll place your post in the "For What It's Worth" round file immediately.
 Quote:

Having composed very mediocre (at best) CLASSICAL music, has absolutely NOTHING to do with determining one's stature as a POP/ROCK pianist.

It counts for NOTHING.
The definition of Forum is:

A public meeting place for OPEN discussion. Comments like the ones listed above don't foster open discussion, they hinder it. Several people have not come back to the thread because of it.

Ryan

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#1137659 - 01/02/07 07:25 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
"Again, "policing" threads. This is a public forum. I made a comment based on my opinion."

No, lad. YOU are the one policing me. I have NEVER told you that you couldn't post whatever you wished. I NEVER said you weren't entitled to your own opinion. So STOP LYING![/b]

"It's not your job to tell people what is or is not relevant to the thread. People post what comes to mind."

You don't read very well. You are free to post whatever you wish, I don't care. I am simply pointing out that Wonder's songwriting abilities have NOTHING to do with proving him to be the best rock/pop pianist ever. Thus far, you have provided NO evidence whatsoever that he is.

That is MY opinion, which I am entitled to. YOU are the one who has serious problems about me expressing MY opinions. I have NO problem with any of your opinions, just your inability to post anything of substance. But I have NEVER questioned your right to post irrelevancies.[/b]

"I know for a fact that I am not the only one who is put off by your arrogant and condescending posts."

To quote you--"what is arrogant about stating one's opinion?". I was simply stating MY opinions! \:D ROTFLMAO! And your above statement simply proves that you're not the only whiner here.[/b]

"The definition of Forum is:

A public meeting place for OPEN discussion. Comments like the ones listed above don't foster open discussion, they hinder it. Several people have not come back to the thread because of it."

HOGWASH! NOTHING I can say on this forum can prevent you from discussing whatever you wish with whomever you wish. You can also completely ignore me if you so desire.

Besides, this is a public forum--I made comments based on MY opinions. Stop policing me, Ryan! \:D

It appears my OPINIONS have stepped on the toes of some of the more insecure and immature individuals around here. However, as YOU say---I have a RIGHT to those opinions. I shouldn't have to explain that! :p [/b]

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#1137660 - 01/02/07 07:37 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
Music Lover said, among other ridiculous statements:
 Quote:
Keith Emerson's not in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, even though he has been eligible for years. Jerry Lee went in with the first group the first year
Ah yes, true, very true.....and that's because the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame caters to the average Joe, people like yourself, that know little, if anything, about what it takes to be truly great on an instrument, and could care less. BUT, he HAS been picked by Keyboard Magazine and MANY other Pianist publications as the top pianist/keyboardist year in and year out for so long that they finally had to stop letting people vote for him in order to allow someone else to win:
 Quote:
Throughout the years, Emerson has consistently won the Overall Best Keyboardist award in the annual Keyboard Magazine Readers' Poll, since the magazine debuted in 1975 and holds a seat of honor on their advisory board. He was recently honored at The Smithsonian Institution, along with Dr. Robert Moog, for his pioneering work in electronic music. Emerson is currently preparing for a UK tour and others.[/b]
.
And since the thread that was opened originally was titled "Best Pop/Rock Pianists" and NOT "Best Entertainer", or "Best at Jumping on a Piano", or "Best at Banging Out Chords and Glissandos", then I guess those at Keyboard Magazine know a little more about who is and isn't a great pianist than you do. And, just so you're straight on this, my assessment of Keith Emerson's playing is NOT based solely on that You Tube Video, but on years of Progressive ROCK music he has COMPOSED and Played with Emerson, Lake and Palmer......are you going to now say that PROGRESSIVE ROCK MUSIC is NOT ROCK? You've highjacked this thread with your own inane rantings and attacked all who don't go along with your ridiculous "logic", but, I encourage you to keep writing........I LOVE IT when fools seal their own casket and bury themselves. Oh, by the way, I thought you weren't going to lower yourself to my level by responding to a "flame war" as you put it. Didn't do to well at that either, did you?
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#1137661 - 01/02/07 08:11 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
pianokeys1000 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 83
Loc: Upstate NY
 Quote:

I have NEVER told you that you couldn't post whatever you wished. I NEVER said you weren't entitled to your own opinion.
No, instead you kill my opinion and any others that you don't agree with.

Music Lover said.[/b]

 Quote:

You don't read very well.
 Quote:

No, lad.
 Quote:

I have NO problem with any of your opinions, just your inability to post anything of substance.
 Quote:

It appears my OPINIONS have stepped on the toes of some of the more insecure and immature individuals around here.
Insults and condescending speech. I can't say I suprised. I'll let these comments speak for themselves. This has really turned into a great thread. Thanks.

 Quote:

You are free to post whatever you wish, I don't care. I am simply pointing out that Wonder's songwriting abilities have NOTHING to do with proving him to be the best rock/pop pianist ever. Thus far, you have provided NO evidence whatsoever that he is.
The definition of opinion (courtesy of dictionary.com):

1.a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty

2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

I didn't see anything in there about proof.

Since when do we have to prove to others who and what we like on the forum? I like Stevie's stuff better, that's all.

Ryan

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#1137662 - 01/02/07 08:30 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by CC2 and Chopin lover:
Music Lover said, among other ridiculous statements:
 Quote:
Keith Emerson's not in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, even though he has been eligible for years. Jerry Lee went in with the first group the first year
Ah yes, true very true.....BUT, he HAS been picked by Keyboard Magazine and MANY other Pianist publications as the top pianist/keyboardist year in and year out for so long that they finally had to stop letting people vote for him in order to allow someone else to win. Look it up. And since the thread that was opened originally was titled "Best Pop/Rock Pianists" and NOT "Best Entertainer", or "Best at Jumping on a Piano", or "Best at Banging Out Chords and Glissandos", then I guess those at Keyboard Magazine know a little more about who is and isn't a great pianist than you do. You've highjacked this thread with your own inane rantings and attacked all who don't go along with your ridiculous "logic", but, I encourage you to keep writing........I LOVE IT when fools seal their own casket and bury themselves. Oh, by the way, I thought you weren't going to lower yourself to my level by responding to a "flame war" as you put it. Didn't do to well at that either, did you? [/b]
ROTFLMAO! :p Mr. Arrogant Know-It-All Chopin lover read it in a music magazine poll, so it MUST be true!

According to some music magazine polls, Ozzy Osbourne is the best singer in human history! According to some music magazine polls, Dimebag Darrell is the best guitarist in human history! According to some music magazine polls, the Ramones are the greatest music group in human history! According to some music magazine polls, Kurt Cobain is the greatest songwriter in human history!

MANY of the people who buy guitar, keyboard, drum magazines etc. are kids--who then go to school and get as many kids as they can to vote on a particular person. Most of the kids who vote have virtually no knowledge of the instruments in question, or even the artists they are voting for. The main reasons they voted for a specific individual is because their friends asked them to, or that was about the only individual they had heard of!

Jerry Lee Lewis was one of the first performers inducted into the Rock Hall of Fame---Emerson STILL hasn't made it after about FORTY or so years in the business.

Jerry Lee Lewis was honored by the Smithsonian Institute---Emerson was left out in the cold.

Jerry Lee Lewis was presented with a Lifetime Achievement Award from the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences, one of only 125 people in history to be so honored, by the same organization that sponsors the prestigious Grammy awards.---Emerson didn't get squat.

Jerry Lee Lewis had a major Hollywood motion picture made of his life story, featuring Dennis Quaid, Alec Baldwin and other major actors.

Gee, Hollywood just hasn't gotten around to calling Mr. Emerson yet--maybe because they know there aren't enough people alive who can stay awake during his life story.

Oh, but maybe Emerson can do some circus tricks like the old revolving piano over the stage. Somebody call Barnum & Bailey quick! Boy, have I got a great idea for a new clown act! \:D

Elton John and Springsteen said it all!:

"Elton John called him the "greatest piano player ever." Dubbed an "American Wildman," Jerry Lee Lewis has sold more than 25,000,000 records and was one of the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame's first inductees. Not bad for a guy whose parents had to mortgage the house in order to buy him a $280.00 upright piano at age 11. Since then, Lewis has burned up the ivories as a self-taught pianist. Claiming to never play the same piece, the same way, twice, Lewis is famous for such hits as Great Balls of Fire and Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On! In the words of rocker Bruce Springsteen, "This man doesn't play rock n' roll, he is rock n' roll.""[/b]

http://piano300.si.edu/gala/lewis.htm

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#1137663 - 01/02/07 08:37 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
Keep going fool, I'm lovin' this...........
_________________________
Piano Technician/Tuner

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#1137664 - 01/02/07 08:53 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
"No, instead you kill my opinion and any others that you don't agree with."

How have I "killed" your opinion? You're still typing away, son. Mr. Chopin lover obviously doesn't agree with me in this case, but he is still posting away in this thread. I've "killed" nothing.[/b]

"Insults and condescending speech. I can't say I suprised. I'll let these comments speak for themselves. This has really turned into a great thread. Thanks."

This thread has gone off course because of YOU. I would like to return to discussing the thread topic, but YOU won't allow it to happen. You've got a fixation with me.[/b]

"The definition of opinion (courtesy of dictionary.com):

1.a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty

2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

I didn't see anything in there about proof.

Since when do we have to prove to others who and what we like on the forum? I like Stevie's stuff better, that's all."

And you're giving your opinions right now, which is FINE and DANDY. Even if I wanted to silence you, I couldn't. But the fact that you are posting RIGHT NOW, is PROOF that your claims that I am "killing" your opinions--is just so much immature blather on your part. That's not an insult--just my personal opinion. Why am I not entitled to MY opinion? \:\)

You're not able to comprehend that YOU are the one who has a problem with MY opinions, I have no problem with yours.

I think it's WONDERFUL that you like Stevie's songwriting better, which has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not he's the best pop/rock pianist ever.

Now can we get back on the thread topic? It's time to move on. I'm not telling you what to do--just a friendly suggestion! [/b] \:\)

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#1137665 - 01/02/07 08:56 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by CC2 and Chopin lover:
Keep going fool, I'm lovin' this...........
Snappy comeback there, Mr. Fife! \:D

Keith who? :p

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#1137666 - 01/02/07 09:25 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
pianokeys1000 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 83
Loc: Upstate NY
 Quote:

You're still typing away, son.
Son? Are you kidding? Totally unnecessary.

 Quote:

How have I "killed" your opinion? You're still typing away, son. Mr. Chopin lover obviously doesn't agree with me in this case, but he is still posting away in this thread. I've "killed" nothing.
And look at what the thread has turned into.

 Quote:

Even if I wanted to silence you, I couldn't.
True, you can't silence anyone, but you can undermine their viewpoints and insult their intelligence. You have done both.

Ryan

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#1137667 - 01/02/07 09:56 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
pianokeys1000 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 83
Loc: Upstate NY
Music Lover said:
 Quote:

You drew first blood...
Wow..

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#1137668 - 01/04/07 01:52 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
ipgrunt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 419
Loc: Western US
_________________________
-- ipgrunt
Amateur pianist, Son of a Pro

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#1137669 - 01/04/07 03:04 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
"Thank you for speaking out. You are indeed, correct, and it is unfortunate to see this kind of behavior on PianoWorld. Since you have taken the time to right an obvious wrong in a polite and completely sensible manner, I'll share with you my perspective on trolls."

Referring to somebody as a "troll" is an ad hominem.[/b]

"I'm sure that you're no stranger to the fact that in online forums like PianoWorld where anonymity is the rule, one always finds miscreants who attack those with whom they don't agree."

Referring to someone as a "miscreant" is a clear ad hominen attack. You are a troll by your own definition and statements.[/b]

"In internet parlance, one who stoops to an ad homimen attack during polite discourse is known as a troll."

You are a troll by your own definition and statements. "Miscreant", "Their style of weak intellectual argument", "book-burners", "their scrawny intellect", "average people" etc. are all definite ad hominem attacks.[/b]

"Why do average people under the cover of internet anonymity, choose to troll? Some folks believe the so-called "little man" complex motivates their antisocial behavior--personally I believe it to be an American style of bad manners that is all too prevalent in today's world, and Rush Limbaugh seems to be their poster child."

You CAN'T be referring to me. I voted for John Kerry, and wouldn't have a problem with Bush being impeached. I think Limbaugh is somewhat of a dullard, but I DO support his right to free speech. Forget Rush, YOU appear to be their poster child, since several of YOUR statements are quite rude.

As for your question in your above paragraph, you need to be asking yourself that. Your post is a clear example of bad manners, which you present under the guise of smug superiority, Mr. "Son of a Pro".[/b]

"Regardless of cause, it is instructive that these people quickly stoop to making personal attacks on their victims. Their style of weak intellectual argument, which is demonstrated quite clearly in the quotations you've listed above, are known as "ad hominem" attacks by those who write rhetoric text books."

You have clearly engaged in ad hominem attacks here yourself. So you are definitely a troll, AND a hypocrite for engaging in the very behavior that you attack others for.[/b]

"The best response to a troll is no response--ignore them. Trolls are the internet's own book-burners. Since they enforce a status where the free exchange of ideas is verboten and swiftly punished, then banish them to the weedy, tangled landscape of their scrawny intellect."

You failed to abide by the very "advice" you are giving him. You didn't ignore me at all, you made a full-scale ad hominen troll attack on me with your post.

"Book-burners"?! You are amusing. It is IMPOSSIBLE to "burn" books on an internet forum. I cannot prevent you or anybody else from posting whatever you wish. The fact that Ryan and yourself continue to criticize and attack me, clearly PROVES that the "free exchange of ideas" is alive and well here. So you are engaging in childish, hyperbolic blather.[/b]

"We are fortunate that PianoWorld is full of intelligent, tolerant and generally kind-hearted people and here trolls quickly wise up, or slink away to stalk another, more petulant group."

Your attack post displays very little intelligence, tolerance and kind-heartedness. You have proven yourself an attack troll who throws around more ad hominems than those you condemn.[/b]

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#1137670 - 01/04/07 03:46 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Ragnhild Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 1117
Loc: Norway
Sorry, this is not really my area of knowledge - and I do admire Elton and Billy Joel !

Just wanted to put in a vote for Carole King ;\)

Ragnhild
_________________________
Trying to play the piano:
http://www.box.net/public/dbr23ll03e

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#1137671 - 01/04/07 04:03 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ragnhild:
Sorry, this is not really my area of knowledge - and I do admire Elton and Billy Joel! Just wanted to put in a vote for Carole King.
Carole King is one of the all-time greats as a songwriter, and a fine pianist. \:\)

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#1137672 - 01/04/07 01:50 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
Carole King btw lives in Idaho nowadays--- they had a newsclip showing her playing some little church or grange hall on a nice old tall upright.

I guess she prefers to live away from the big city where it is quiet and peaceful; I can't blame her.

So Far Away by Carole King
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu1j5MAjmoM
_________________________
I have my own weapon of mass destruction in the form of a "teenage" German Shepherd. Anything she spies and can get ahold of is fair game.

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#1137673 - 01/04/07 10:06 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
Carole King btw lives in Idaho nowadays--- they had a newsclip showing her playing some little church or grange hall on a nice old tall upright. I guess she prefers to live away from the big city where it is quiet and peaceful; I can't blame her.
Carole was born and raised in Brooklyn, and spent many of her post-college years in the music industry in Los Angeles. So I can't blame her for wanting to get away from the big city in her later years.

She was a highschool classmate and friend of Neil Sedaka, whose first big hit "Oh! Carol" was dedicated to her.

During Carole's 60's "glory years", first husband Gerry Goffin wrote most of the lyrics for the dozens of top ten hits they composed for various singers and groups.

Her solo singing career didn't take off until the early 70's, when her "Tapestry" album took the album chart by storm, and is still one of the most successful albums in history.

Carole is considered by many to be the best female songwriter in pop/rock history, and is a fine pianist.

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#1137674 - 01/05/07 04:10 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
I think many artists that have been mentioned offer..some technique or gimmick thats noted and have been adopted by other players as signature licks..some by Jerry Lee Lewis,Fats Domino..now this has nothing to do with "best" but a legacy
what have they left us? various technics? long after there dead..in fact I have a number of instructional DVDs where the artist comments
this is a Fats riff, Jerry Lee riff ..its not how many CDs they sold.. same goes for Chuck Berry
doesn't every rock guitarist want to know how to do a Chuck Berry Lick?

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#1137675 - 01/05/07 06:10 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
Carole King info... just one click gets it...
gotta love google.

http://www.nndb.com/people/108/000023039/
_________________________
I have my own weapon of mass destruction in the form of a "teenage" German Shepherd. Anything she spies and can get ahold of is fair game.

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#1137676 - 01/05/07 06:13 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes


I just wanna know...
What is the cats name? Is this her kitty?

Photo is the Tapestry Album cover...
_________________________
I have my own weapon of mass destruction in the form of a "teenage" German Shepherd. Anything she spies and can get ahold of is fair game.

Top
#1137677 - 01/05/07 07:45 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Newbie:
I think many artists that have been mentioned offer..some technique or gimmick thats noted and have been adopted by other players as signature licks..some by Jerry Lee Lewis,Fats Domino..now this has nothing to do with "best" but a legacy
what have they left us? various technics? long after there dead..in fact I have a number of instructional DVDs where the artist comments
this is a Fats riff, Jerry Lee riff ..its not how many CDs they sold.. same goes for Chuck Berry
doesn't every rock guitarist want to know how to do a Chuck Berry Lick?
There are actually several aspects that should be considered when deciding who is "best". I think most of the arguments and resulting bad feelings in this thread, could've been avoided if we had first come to an agreement on the various criteria a great pop/rock pianist should be judged by.

This is not necessarily a complete list, but below are several things that should be considered in my opinion, in no particular order of importance:

1. Influence: On listeners, other pianists, recording industry, society
2. Record sales
3. Fame
4. Longevity in recording industry
5. Longevity in live appearances
6. Quality of output
7. Quantity of output
8. Technical ability
9. Showmanship
10. Ability to play different styles of music

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#1137678 - 01/05/07 10:33 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
Now that i think about the phrase I was thinking of was a sort of trademark signature lick, example
Roger Williams ...autumn leaves..the falling leaf gimmick..the Liberace thing octaves..Count Basie Splank!..another good DVD is Dr John..showing
diffrent intro by long dead and forgotten artists
execpt for there signature riffs..Steve Allen has a good DVD called intro to Jazz..showing how to do
Eddie Duchin,Gershwin,Basie even Errol Garner
intros...point being..many good artists left us
things we can copy and alter to suit..as far as best? who knows the benchmark for that?
Chet Atkins once said..I never said I was the best.. just the most famous..

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