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#1137669 - 01/04/07 03:04 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
"Thank you for speaking out. You are indeed, correct, and it is unfortunate to see this kind of behavior on PianoWorld. Since you have taken the time to right an obvious wrong in a polite and completely sensible manner, I'll share with you my perspective on trolls."

Referring to somebody as a "troll" is an ad hominem.[/b]

"I'm sure that you're no stranger to the fact that in online forums like PianoWorld where anonymity is the rule, one always finds miscreants who attack those with whom they don't agree."

Referring to someone as a "miscreant" is a clear ad hominen attack. You are a troll by your own definition and statements.[/b]

"In internet parlance, one who stoops to an ad homimen attack during polite discourse is known as a troll."

You are a troll by your own definition and statements. "Miscreant", "Their style of weak intellectual argument", "book-burners", "their scrawny intellect", "average people" etc. are all definite ad hominem attacks.[/b]

"Why do average people under the cover of internet anonymity, choose to troll? Some folks believe the so-called "little man" complex motivates their antisocial behavior--personally I believe it to be an American style of bad manners that is all too prevalent in today's world, and Rush Limbaugh seems to be their poster child."

You CAN'T be referring to me. I voted for John Kerry, and wouldn't have a problem with Bush being impeached. I think Limbaugh is somewhat of a dullard, but I DO support his right to free speech. Forget Rush, YOU appear to be their poster child, since several of YOUR statements are quite rude.

As for your question in your above paragraph, you need to be asking yourself that. Your post is a clear example of bad manners, which you present under the guise of smug superiority, Mr. "Son of a Pro".[/b]

"Regardless of cause, it is instructive that these people quickly stoop to making personal attacks on their victims. Their style of weak intellectual argument, which is demonstrated quite clearly in the quotations you've listed above, are known as "ad hominem" attacks by those who write rhetoric text books."

You have clearly engaged in ad hominem attacks here yourself. So you are definitely a troll, AND a hypocrite for engaging in the very behavior that you attack others for.[/b]

"The best response to a troll is no response--ignore them. Trolls are the internet's own book-burners. Since they enforce a status where the free exchange of ideas is verboten and swiftly punished, then banish them to the weedy, tangled landscape of their scrawny intellect."

You failed to abide by the very "advice" you are giving him. You didn't ignore me at all, you made a full-scale ad hominen troll attack on me with your post.

"Book-burners"?! You are amusing. It is IMPOSSIBLE to "burn" books on an internet forum. I cannot prevent you or anybody else from posting whatever you wish. The fact that Ryan and yourself continue to criticize and attack me, clearly PROVES that the "free exchange of ideas" is alive and well here. So you are engaging in childish, hyperbolic blather.[/b]

"We are fortunate that PianoWorld is full of intelligent, tolerant and generally kind-hearted people and here trolls quickly wise up, or slink away to stalk another, more petulant group."

Your attack post displays very little intelligence, tolerance and kind-heartedness. You have proven yourself an attack troll who throws around more ad hominems than those you condemn.[/b]

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#1137670 - 01/04/07 03:46 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Ragnhild Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 1117
Loc: Norway
Sorry, this is not really my area of knowledge - and I do admire Elton and Billy Joel !

Just wanted to put in a vote for Carole King ;\)

Ragnhild
_________________________
Trying to play the piano:
http://www.box.net/public/dbr23ll03e

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#1137671 - 01/04/07 04:03 AM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ragnhild:
Sorry, this is not really my area of knowledge - and I do admire Elton and Billy Joel! Just wanted to put in a vote for Carole King.
Carole King is one of the all-time greats as a songwriter, and a fine pianist. \:\)

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#1137672 - 01/04/07 01:50 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
Carole King btw lives in Idaho nowadays--- they had a newsclip showing her playing some little church or grange hall on a nice old tall upright.

I guess she prefers to live away from the big city where it is quiet and peaceful; I can't blame her.

So Far Away by Carole King
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu1j5MAjmoM
_________________________
I have my own weapon of mass destruction in the form of a "teenage" German Shepherd. Anything she spies and can get ahold of is fair game.

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#1137673 - 01/04/07 10:06 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by wolfindmist:
Carole King btw lives in Idaho nowadays--- they had a newsclip showing her playing some little church or grange hall on a nice old tall upright. I guess she prefers to live away from the big city where it is quiet and peaceful; I can't blame her.
Carole was born and raised in Brooklyn, and spent many of her post-college years in the music industry in Los Angeles. So I can't blame her for wanting to get away from the big city in her later years.

She was a highschool classmate and friend of Neil Sedaka, whose first big hit "Oh! Carol" was dedicated to her.

During Carole's 60's "glory years", first husband Gerry Goffin wrote most of the lyrics for the dozens of top ten hits they composed for various singers and groups.

Her solo singing career didn't take off until the early 70's, when her "Tapestry" album took the album chart by storm, and is still one of the most successful albums in history.

Carole is considered by many to be the best female songwriter in pop/rock history, and is a fine pianist.

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#1137674 - 01/05/07 04:10 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
I think many artists that have been mentioned offer..some technique or gimmick thats noted and have been adopted by other players as signature licks..some by Jerry Lee Lewis,Fats Domino..now this has nothing to do with "best" but a legacy
what have they left us? various technics? long after there dead..in fact I have a number of instructional DVDs where the artist comments
this is a Fats riff, Jerry Lee riff ..its not how many CDs they sold.. same goes for Chuck Berry
doesn't every rock guitarist want to know how to do a Chuck Berry Lick?

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#1137675 - 01/05/07 06:10 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes
Carole King info... just one click gets it...
gotta love google.

http://www.nndb.com/people/108/000023039/
_________________________
I have my own weapon of mass destruction in the form of a "teenage" German Shepherd. Anything she spies and can get ahold of is fair game.

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#1137676 - 01/05/07 06:13 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
wolfindmist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 1478
Loc: In a state full of Volcanoes


I just wanna know...
What is the cats name? Is this her kitty?

Photo is the Tapestry Album cover...
_________________________
I have my own weapon of mass destruction in the form of a "teenage" German Shepherd. Anything she spies and can get ahold of is fair game.

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#1137677 - 01/05/07 07:45 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Music Lover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Newbie:
I think many artists that have been mentioned offer..some technique or gimmick thats noted and have been adopted by other players as signature licks..some by Jerry Lee Lewis,Fats Domino..now this has nothing to do with "best" but a legacy
what have they left us? various technics? long after there dead..in fact I have a number of instructional DVDs where the artist comments
this is a Fats riff, Jerry Lee riff ..its not how many CDs they sold.. same goes for Chuck Berry
doesn't every rock guitarist want to know how to do a Chuck Berry Lick?
There are actually several aspects that should be considered when deciding who is "best". I think most of the arguments and resulting bad feelings in this thread, could've been avoided if we had first come to an agreement on the various criteria a great pop/rock pianist should be judged by.

This is not necessarily a complete list, but below are several things that should be considered in my opinion, in no particular order of importance:

1. Influence: On listeners, other pianists, recording industry, society
2. Record sales
3. Fame
4. Longevity in recording industry
5. Longevity in live appearances
6. Quality of output
7. Quantity of output
8. Technical ability
9. Showmanship
10. Ability to play different styles of music

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#1137678 - 01/05/07 10:33 PM Re: Best pop/rock pianists?
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
Now that i think about the phrase I was thinking of was a sort of trademark signature lick, example
Roger Williams ...autumn leaves..the falling leaf gimmick..the Liberace thing octaves..Count Basie Splank!..another good DVD is Dr John..showing
diffrent intro by long dead and forgotten artists
execpt for there signature riffs..Steve Allen has a good DVD called intro to Jazz..showing how to do
Eddie Duchin,Gershwin,Basie even Errol Garner
intros...point being..many good artists left us
things we can copy and alter to suit..as far as best? who knows the benchmark for that?
Chet Atkins once said..I never said I was the best.. just the most famous..

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