Hey, I'm just beginning to learn how to play piano, and playing by ear seems really interesting to me. I can't really do any playing by ear though, except for very simple melodies. I was wondering if anyone knew of any ways to approach this, other than just playing random notes and figuring it out? Maybe some books or something that can help? I heard about pianomagic.com in the other thread, but it's kind of expensive for me right now, so I was looking for something a bit more affordable. Basically, how to get started with the whole "playing by ear" thing.

Also, I don't know a lot of theory (at all), so I was wondering if anyone knows a good way to get started on that? Should I just ask my piano teacher to teach me theory? Or is there another way I can learn it (effectively), without wasting lesson time?

Thanks for any help!

MDespot, if its a book your looking for to teach playing by ear, isn't that contradictory? lol

i would suggest memorizing a few chords, c, d , e , f, and g and playing them with your left hand using bass c for the root, then trying your right at a melody starting around middle c.

i would highly recomend spending as much research time with music theory as possible, and no i don't believe any lesson time is wasted.

Hi MDespot

I you want to play by ear?...then pianomagic will enable you to...in the simplest most straightforward way

Is it expensive? see-ing as you can have daily interaction with Mike and all the other members in the forums for a YEAR and ask a zillion questions (like me, if you want to) until you get it.

I'd say its priceless.

I've been playing Mikes way for a little over 2 years and its definitely working so far and I'm only scratching the surface as I'm getting into the more advanced stuff.

I could prattle on and on about how good it is, and how its changed my life, and how I've lost thirty pounds in 4 weeks on the pianomagic diet blah blah, but, the proof of the pudding is in the eating (so they say)

So, take a listen to a couple of my latest recordings (played by ear the pianomagic way) here:-

http://uk.geocities.com/lee.holt@btinternet.com/

If thats the kind of thing you'd like to be able to do?...then give it a try


Lee

Most books that I've seen promote playing by using fake books. While it's nice to be able to play thousands of songs (eventually) by using the fake books for the chord progressions; that is not playing by ear. To play by ear, you not only have to be able to pick out the melody (which takes practice all by itself) but you also have to know what the chord changes are on-the-fly.

So far I've looked at two true play-by-ear courses: PianoMagic.com and "Mel Bay's You Can Teach Yourself Piano" video course.

Mel Bay's course is very inexpensive (about $10 for the hour long video). If you are *EXTREMELY* self motivating, then you could probably learn how to play simple songs by ear with this course.

PianoMagic, while initially more expensive, is an on-going course that teaches step-by-step from the very beginning and also teaches how to know what the chords are going to be in the song that you're humming. (If you can't hum the song, then you won't be able to play it by ear.)

There are challenges to learning to play by ear for those of us with prior piano experience:

1. We're used to fully voiced pieces that we learn or read from sheet music. It's tough to go back to the basics and learn from scratch. But if you want to make music from thin air, this is what you have to do.

2. Some *think* they know lots of theory, so they rush in to add advanced chords before they're ready. They may know that an advanced chord goes in a particular spot in a particular song, but they don't know why, so it's not going to help them in a different song.

So, if you really want to learn how to take a tune that you have in your head and play it on the piano, and you want some guidance while doing it, then so far, PianoMagic is the only course I've seen that does that. As I said, other courses use fakebooks as a crutch.

Oh yeah

forgot to mention..you get Bob and I thrown in for free!! (thats got to be worth a couple of bucks at least? )


Lee

Ok, thanks guys. What do you mean I have to be able to hum the song or I wont be able to play it by ear? Like, I can hum the melody to the star wars theme right now, does that mean I'll be able to play it? And if I cant hum it, will I be able to play it after listening to it then?

Also, are there any more people who have used pianomagic on here? I think I'm gonna need a bit more support for it before I can convince my parents to order it.

I'm just starting to work on more improv. so I have barely got started. If your humming a melody like Star Wars, just go to the keys and try to pick out the tune.
Sight-singing (trying to play a note and see if you can sing the next as in intervals) helped me a lot with picking out tunes a little better. I would think the more you did it, the easier it would become.
Don't be afraid to ask your teacher about showing you some theory. Theory can be taught also in the context of the music your learning . . . looking for scales, intervals, chords within the music. Your teacher should be able to give at home assignments without using lesson also. Start learning intervals, scales, and basic chords, then go to chord inversions, then progressions, and your on your way!

Hi MDespot

Hey...you could always ask Santa , Xmas is coming thick and fast!

And yup, sarabande is on the right track, if you know a song? hum whistle and sing it and then try and hunt and peck out the single melody notes. However, that is unfortunately only half the battle I'm afraid to say, you also need to find matching chords to harmonize the melody ...(its a heap of work to figure out on your own but to some it comes easy)

If you want to play by ear there's any easy way or a hard way...unless you are born with a natural ability to do it off the bat (which definitely ain't me)...then we've shown you the door to an easy way.


Good Luck


Lee

"What do you mean I have to be able to hum the song or I wont be able to play it by ear?"

Exactly that. How can you possibly play a song at the piano if you don't even know it enough to be able to hum it?

Like, I can hum the melody to the star wars theme right now, does that mean I'll be able to play it?

Well, you're comparing an orchestral work with just a piano, but yes, that's the idea.

"And if I cant hum it, will I be able to play it after listening to it then?"

As long as you can hum it accurately after listening to it, yes.

"I think I'm gonna need a bit more support for it before I can convince my parents to order it."

Christmas is coming up.

Why don't you spend a few weeks dinking around on the piano before and after practice. See if you can pick out the melody to some tunes you know. Star Wars, Mario Brothers, the Star Spangled Banner, whatever. As I said, that's the easy part. The hard part is knowing what chords to play.

Once you can pick out the melody to a few songs, ask your teacher if they can spend a few minutes learning how to find the melody. Can your teacher play by ear? If so, that would be very helpful. Unfortunately, even if they can, they may not be able to explain why they pick a particular chord to play during a tune.

What do you mean I have to be able to hum the song or I wont be able to play it by ear?[/b] You don't need to be able to hum it perfectly, but you have to know how it goes in your head. For me, I often find the song lyrics online, print them out and take them to piano. Using the lyrics, it jogs my memory of how the song goes.

It's something that can probably be learned, but I think it's one of those things that you just need to "have an ear for". Honestly, I have no idea how I do it. No one ever taught me-- I just sit down at the piano and it comes out. I know that doesn't sound like much help to you, but if you have a lot of patience, just sit there and try playing around until you have something that sounds like the song. And like someone mentioned, knowing how to play the chords (and common chord progressions) is really helpful.

I would just think the more you "do", the easier it would get to "hear" the notes you want or like.

For melodies, I could always pretty well figure them out. I've always been able to remember lots of tunes and all the words probably from listening to so many "tunes" on records, via singing songs, etc. as a kid. However, I have never had a natural ear for just picking out chords or adding anything interesting along with the melody. It wasn't until I learned chords, inversions, and chord progressions before I thought I might be able to put some chords with a tune, varying rhythms, adding to it overall . . . with a lot of practice!!!

For melodies as well, I found I could more readily pick them out by training myself to identify intervals by ear. For example, the beginning of the Star Wars theme is an interval of a 5th and if you remember what that sounds like you can hear a 5th elsewhere.

That's an excellent idea!!!!

I aways used to think that playing by ear meant you cannot read music. So that meant having to master the piano keyboard until you can sit down and play to a standard, that becomes variable according to your ability, in the art of playing the instrument and degree of mastery of it.

Many hours of practice are required but it is said that it is a gift one is born with (in the genes). Hard to describe to those that hav'nt got it,or indeed what it is that we have.

In my case I first learned the sounds all the keys in an octave produce. Chords are the same. The practice hour time numbers would be very high.

'Greenlee' desribes exactly as with me on her way of playing.

It can annoy others that this is possible and especially if they are dependant on the score for their playing. But equally, I wish I could sight read and do all that classical stuff.

I quite often play along with jazz from the Hi Fi player in order to learn new compositions. Like Fats Waller, Teddy Wilson and so on, as two of my heros. I need to practice scales and the fingering constantly to keep up with the natural ability to master the keyboard.

Finally, I fill my day by playing all the jazz 'standards' I like so much on the CD and tape players whilst I earn a crust for the table.

It's a good job I restrict my jazz to the more mainstream and trad for that's my era.

Alan

PS. I sometines watch another pianist trying to find the correct note while sight reading and I think well it's 'that note! why are they stumbling?

You can accompany many songs using just three chords - tonic, subdominant and dominant. For example, if you play in D-major, you use D,G and A. Try it with a simple melody! If you get more professional you can learn how to put melody in there. It comes with practising.

Maka

Hi swingal

Thats the way it used to be? ...now it can be taught to and learned by the "not so gifted" (like moi)

I'm living the dream (today) and I was one of those people that thought (wrongly) for the past 30 (ahem) odd years that I couldn't play by ear! (WRONG!)

Up until ten years ago "Mike" also believed he had a god given gift and couldn't describe what it was he did...then, he had a dream and the rest... as they say "is history"!


Lee

Lee, I'm most intriqued by your new playing by the 'PianoMagic' method. Glad to see it works. I would be very interested on reading more about your new found piano playing as it progresses and wish you all the best for the future.

Alan

Seaside Lee

I have no doubt that PM can teach how to
play by ear very simple stuff if you can hum or sing a song.

However, any intermidiate can plunk out a melody on a piano keyboard, and most can put a simple I-IV-V 3 note chord progression behind that melody...but this is certainly not always the standard on many songs, maybe hymns, not pop songs. Which BTW I have yet to hear just ONE
pop song someone was able to play using the PM
method. Is there any out there to listen too?

Is PM mostly geared toward the piano
beginner?

Howdy swingal

I knew you'd be intrigued I've read many of your posts and I often get a sense of your inner battle (that you can do what you do, but, don't really know how to explain it). You remind me of Mike (pianomagic) in that he was exactly the same up until about 10 years ago and his dream (where he dreamed of a way to show people what he did)

I am just a small part of his "on-line workshop" where we are all learning together (even Mike who is still learning himself how to present what he knows in a better way). There is of course a natural progression as his online students are becoming more advanced and are asking deeper and deeper questions, questions that even he may not know the answers to, as no-one yet has advanced enough to ask them

So, I'll will definitely try to keep you informed..I'm sort of on a trip that I can't get off of now.

I have played publicly a few times recently(for free) and I now know that I can entertain a crowd.

So, here's the thing, I DJ on the weekends through an agent, who also happens to be a booking agent for bands and entertainers and I have been chatting with him about some day soon playing piano at weddings before I do the disco etc.

Playing publicly has been a dream of mine since I was a little child (when even though I was told I was talented I jacked it in ) and it has been gnawing away at me ever since). I thought I'd never be able to play by ear...in my heart of hearts I knew that I couldn't achieve it, it was far too late (I was 41)...now?...I'm not so sure?

I'm getting closer by the day to really going for this (however, I may be getting divorced at this rate? if I have to tell "Mrs H" (aka "she who shall be obeyed!"...LOL) that I want to gig with the piano on top of everything else! )

regards


Lee

Exactly, you don't have to be even that knowledgeable to put melody to a 3 chord
progression. In fact I get bored outta my
mind doing it sometimes.

That's why I think PM is not for intermediate
musicians with a little knowledge. Everyone
regardless of their musical knowledge has to
practice what they do to get "comfortable" with
what they want to accomplish...That can't be taught, it's just what has to be done if you do
not have natural talent toward such movements.

Hi sirch 59

Will Dionne Warwicks "Walk on By" do?

If so? I've been playing for *only* 2 years so far and you'll find my recording here:-

http://uk.geocities.com/lee.holt@btinternet.com/

If not?...I might do a request

Is it for beginners?...If you play by ear already you don't need it. If you cannot play by ear you have to start with the basics and work up from there

Mike's been playing for...oooh...erm...a long time (about 37 years) and his online workshop has been running for about 3 years, so his most advanced students have been only learning for 3 years max!

Will we get more advanced? ...you betcha (have a listen to Mikes playing publicly available at the website front page to hear how advanced you can get)


Lee

Hi again sirch 59

You'd be straight into the advanced lessons then. Which consists of cousins and substitutions,augmented, diminshed etc etc (I'm not really there yet) and why they work and when to use 'em, and also the more advanced rhythm lessons...there's a lot to chew on already but, if what you are after ain't there already then you would just "ask Mike" about it and he would probably put together another overhead video or audio for you (within the forums)if it was unexplainable so that you could understand it (aswell as all of us)

What's more you can always telephone Mike and ask him personally if its what you are after (he is just a regular guy and he answers his own calls)

Lee

sirch59, have you seen the videos over on the PM front page? There are some pop tunes in there from what I recall. Many recent popular music tunes can rely on advanced chording. But they can still be played by ear.

Keep in mind that all the people in the videos are beginners with less than two years under their belts. If they were memorizing music, then what they were playing wouldn't be too impressive. But they're playing from scratch, with just a melody in their head.

While PM may start with I-IV-V, it doesn't stop there unless the student does. Mike is ready, willing, and able to take the music as far as the student wants.

"any intermidiate can plunk out a melody on a piano keyboard, and most can put a simple I-IV-V 3 note chord progression behind that melody"

I would have to disagree. From my experience, if the music isn't on the page, most intermediate and many advanced players can not match chords with even the simplest of tunes. I'm surprised if they can even plunk out a melody. These things are simply not taught. If you can *correctly* match basic chords to tunes, then you'll have a leg up on the rest of us. As Lee said, you'll be able to go straight into the advanced lessons.

"Is PM mostly geared toward the piano beginner?"

No. However, advanced players can get caught up in what they think they know and end up going back to the basics several times. A beginner can learn the basics and get stuck learning technique. Arps and hand jumps take quite a while to master. An advanced player already has a good handle on technique and *IF* then can incorporate the basics, they'll advance fairly rapidly.

While PM starts out with the most simple three-chord tunes, (how else could you do it?), you advance to the more complex music when you're ready. Simple tunes can also be made more complex. You would be amazed to hear Mike's four minute rendition of "This Old Man"!

yeah...check out that "Magic Moments with Seaside_Lee" video he's a dude! (only kidding)

Seriously, though that was such a fun day where PMMO students from the UK got to spend a day with Mike at the Belsize practise rooms in London during his European vacation at the beginning of September.

Pressure? nerves?...jeez! I was shaking in my boots!! LOL


Lee

Seaside wrote: "yeah...check out that "Magic Moments with Seaside_Lee" video he's a dude!"

I'd expect nothing less--I hear he owns a gym.

LOL

Yeah, I may own a gym!...but since this darned piano obsession of mine (and my spare keyboard/s being readily to hand there ) I never have any time to work out! So, if I'm a little bit out of shape on the video it aint the gyms fault!...okay?

Your welcome to a free work-out anytime you are in Blackpool, markb

Lee

Gotcha, I agree.
I really appreciate your response because
I'm certainly not an advanced piano player
I'm New - 3 months, but have 15 years of musical experience.

I think I would gain some insight from the PM
sight, and I'm sure Mike's teaching is well worth
$129.00, but I think I can get the same insight for free, here.

I really think the PM sight has something valuble
to offer folks who want to gain an understanding of basic piano/music principles, but I wish Mike would split some cost up according to experience or some other way.
I know your discussions on the PM Msg Boards must
be very informative but so are the discussions on this board and they don't cost a dime.

Thank you for taking the time, you have been
very informative and helpful.

sirch59, have you seen the videos over on the PM front page?

No, I haven't, I would love to see them.
I did see the England trip thing with everybody introducing themselves and all, but I've definately missed the "video's?"

From my experience, if the music isn't on the page, most intermediate and many advanced players can not match chords with even the simplest of tunes.

I know what you mean, the pianist at my church couldn't play a tune by ear if her life depended on it, but can read music to a tea![/b] (that's for you Brits.)

While PM starts out with the most simple three-chord tunes, (how else could you do it?), you advance to the more complex music when you're ready.

Right, but my only contention is maybe Mike needs to split this up a little so it's not so expensive for stuff you don't need, but that's just my opinion and I'm sure he's thought about this aspect.

If there's not just ONE magical technique maybe he should sell different avenues of how to play.

I guess I'm just wishful thinking...

Hi sirch

I hear what you are saying but, Mike doesn't want to split anything up or sell any add ons like many other courses do.

What you are buying into is a 24/7, 365 piano teacher and support group through the forums. The forums at PMMO are different than the forums here...they include many, many audio and overhead video lessons which are given by Mike totally for free once you have joined.

The forums are primarily a teaching learning question answer thang. There are many wonderful helpful people here but, how many can teach you to play by ear?

Infact, so far there has only been 1 or 2 suggestions from helpful members in this entire thread, has this thread taught you to play by ear so far?

There is really only a few basic steps to learn...the whole shebang just builds from there.
But, I guarantee if you want to learn how to do it you will ask many questions and they will all be answered and then some!

I don't know how much $120 bucks or so is to you...but I'd like to see you get a years worth of regular piano lessons for a similar amount.

I haven't paid for a single piano lesson so far and I'm quite happy with my progress so far.


Lee

"I guess I'm just wishful thinking..."

Yup. Actually, he wrote a book some time ago where he wrote down his course. So if you do some searching, you might find a used copy somewhere for very little money. But trust me, the material in the book is nothing compared to the ongoing live lessons on the website.

Someone with 15 years of musical experience *might* find the actual course initially disappointing and leave the site saying to themselves that they just wasted $129. However, if they take the time to dig into the forums, they'll be richly rewarded.

"my only contention is maybe Mike needs to split this up a little so it's not so expensive for stuff you don't need"

The person to ask this would be Mike over at PM. But if you didn't need any of this "stuff", then you would already be able to play by ear. There's no way he could possibly split the site up.

I've looked into a few courses and this is the first one that doesn't just teach you how to play from fakebooks. In fact Mike insists that you put the fakebooks away and NOT use them! Playing a song by using a fakebook's chords as a guide is not playing by ear.

I haven't paid for a single piano lesson so far and I'm quite happy with my progress so far.

You should be happy with your progress,
I heard your stuff and it's inspiring.

You're like a flashing neon lighted billboard
on steriods with this PM program aren't you?
Hells Bells, Mike couldn't pay an ad agency
enough for the amount of FREE advertising you've
provided for PM! ;-)

I'm gonna go look at the videos of everyone.
I expect to see alot of octave playing.