Hello all.I asked this question in the beginners forum,but did not receive an answer.I am practicing Major and Minor Blues Scales.How are the key signatures arrived at? For example: The B Minor Blues scale has a key signature of F#,C#,G#.Yet, the scale has no C#'s or D#'s.Should I memorize the key signatures or steps in order to play blues scales?Thank you,sincerely,Linda

If a blues piece were written out, then the key signature would be the same as the key of the piece.

For example, "Now is the Time" is typically played in F, so it's written with one flat, but you still use a standard F blues scale: F Ab Bb B C Eb F.

In other words, scales don't have key signatures. It's the same in classical music, the key signature tells you what key the piece is in, but that piece could make use of several different scales.

Think of scales simply as a collection of notes. No key signatures are necessary or required. In method and technique books where key signatures are used for scales, it's simply to simplify reading and save ink. (They give you the key signature of a piece that would be in whatever key has that scale as tonic.)

mmm I've been wracking my brains for years over key signatures and scales and chords.. and Kreisler just cleared my mind and made way for a different way of thinking..

Thanks K..

i've never learnt that way, never used books or been taught anything, just played what sounded right

I like the way this was communicated. Good Job!!

Good Job??? Are you kidding! Explain pianoexcellence, just what Kreisler said that you agree with and what you say was so clearly communicated?!

I already posted a response to this same question over at the Pianist Corner forum under the same thread title, "Key Signatures of Blues Scales".

Sorry, Kreisler, agree with you most times, but not this time!

Scales are technical exercises therefore are just a combination of half steps and whole steps. In the context of improvisation in tunes with key signatures one does not play scales, one plays notes in a scale or mode with individual accidentals on certain notes that don't coincide with the key signiture of the tune.

If you guys want some great examples of this scale being used, listen to me at

I use this stuff all the time in my playing.

I don't know why it didn't post...here

www.myspace.com/jaredmathispiano

Jared,

Very impressive! Very, very impressive!

You are playing like most people "want" to play the piano! Well done!

And welcome to Piano World my friend!

Hey man I definitely appreciate the compliments! now all I need is a good gig to back it up right? haha, thanks again.

Kreisler- I understand what you are getting at here, but as a blanket statement I am going to have to disagree. While scales are, as you correctly say, just a systematically arranged collection of tones, there are many that do have key signatures. The F major scale for example. It's key signature is one flat. The key signature belongs to that scale. Remember that many scales are also modes. F Major, e.g. is the Ionian mode and intrinsically linked to one flat. Other scales also have that key signature, e.g. G Dorian, A Phrygian, Bb Lydian, C Mixolydian, D Aeolian (pure minor), and E Locrian.

The key signature system we use today became standardized in the 18th Century to represent tonal compositions as the shift was made from modality to tonality. The system recognizes 12 major keys and each of their relative minors. There were some Theorists at the time (Gottfried Weber for example) that advocated a minor key signature that would reflect the leading tone (e.g. G minor would have Bb, Eb, F# in the key signature) but composers overwhelmingly adopted the key signatures we use today.

The minor scale represents an example where the key signature does not accurately reflect the collection to which it is attached. The same is true with many other scales. The Blues scale is one of many, many examples. Take for example my username, "superlocrian." This is a scale used by Jazz players (I myself am a Jazz trumpet player). It is the seventh mode of melodic minor. Beginning on C the notes are C-Db-Eb-E-F#-G#-Bb-C. This scale would be used as a "note pallete" in improvisation for melodic ideas over altered dominant chords, in this case C7alt (alt=altered, i.e. #5,b5, #9, b9). This scale would be used over this chord, but this chord might occur in, say, a piece in F Major. Therefore, the key signature would have one flat, because the tune itself is in F major. I might also run across a chord just before the C7alt such as a G minor chord. In that case I might use the G Dorian scale as my melodic "pallete." In that case, the G Dorian scale does reflect the key signature. The point here is that some scales do have key signatures and some don't, and you are correct to say that the key will reflect the tune itself rather than all the intricate chords within it that may deviate from the key.

Okay, I guess I rambled a bit there. Let's keep going. If I'm writing a tune, there are two questions I must ask when deciding on a key. First, what is tonic? Second, is the tune more closely related to major or minor tonality. Then, the key signature is applied. The point is that every tune is put into this mold. At times, the key signature will reflect accurately the tune itself and at other times it will not.

Still confused Tango? (I know I'm rambling). While the note C has two possible key signatures (major or minor), there are literally dozens of scales that might be built on C. And in a piece written in C Major for example, there might be many scales implemented within the piece in addition to C Major.

Okay, the point. While there are many scales that are not accurately reflected in a particular key signature, it is an oversimplification to say that "scales do not have key signatures." Many actually do.


BTW- If anyone out there is learning to improvise, don't overuse the Blues scale. Take for example Charlie Parker's solo on Now's the Time that Kreisler referenced. He uses it sparingly. The Blues scale sounds good when mixed with more bebop style playing. Learn chord/scale relationships. The Jamey Aebersold series is a good place to start.

I just reread the post. Sorry if it's confusing Tango. It's 12:30 in the morning here and my brain is fried. I'll be happy to clarify if needed on another day.