Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner - Non Classical How does one develop 'touch'?

My teacher has been talking a lot lately about "intent." That is, if you "intend" a particular phrase to go a certain way, or to convey a certain feeling or notion, it will. You have to put that "intent" into it as you play it. Hard to explain, but it is making sense to me in terms of getting the right "touch."

Mark,
Your teacher is indeed wise. The pianist's "intent" is also responsible for being able to play with "tone". I maintain that intent originates in one's ear.

fingers

The word I use for 'intent' is conception. And yes, it happens in the ears - the fingers take care of themselves.

J. Mark, why don't you shut the ____ up.

jasperkeys,

1) Doing legato scales - one finger is coming up as another finger is going down - like a "see saw" in the playground / (one side is down on the ground, the other side is up in the air). You might start this as a thought with just fingers 2 -3 then 3 - 4 and then 4 - 5. Then making a longer line of the notes 2-3-4-5 until you hear no gaps between the playing and all ringers are striking with the same rate of speed - more like a "melting" as they land on the keys.

2) I leave pedals off with my students until they have learned to play expressively and accurately and with a steady beat.

Sustain pedals are used too much. The pianist should really learn to use mimimal pedaling in the areas of the piece it is needed.

The pedal responds to your demand from what your ears are telling you about the sound and music you are producing.

To me, pedaling is a last step to put into place, and then only selectively. It's a study unto itself.

Betty

It would be great if this thread was continued without people getting personal. That way, I won't have to close it.

Thank you.

Aw, Betty Patnude. You saw right through me. You're right, I confess, I do use the pedal more than what is good for me. How did you know?

Thanks so much for your advice. I really should strive to obtain that wonderful legato simply be connecting the tones without the pedal, at least initially. I think I just figure that if the notes are chordal anyway; why not? However, I'm probably too dependent on the pedal to achieve legato. Anyway, I will try to actually listen and check myself if I hear too much blurring. Thanks.

I wish those with extreme opinions on both sides would realize what works for them may not work for someone else.
2 sides to everything.
Blanket statements that digital is the only way or you will never learn on a digital are just
WRONG on both sides.
Those making personal attacks should take it to PM so the rest of us don't have to read their
Jabs at each other.
Grow up boys, please.

Goodness. That's just not very nice.

I have not attacked anyone personally. My references were to the ideas set forth. If one cannot respond to ideas, then what are we doing here?

Whatever. And no, I will not shut the __ up.

Aw, jasperkeys!

Good project for you, don't you think?

When the right foot just wants to ride that pedal, you are going to have to make the ultimate sacrifice and place your right foot's toes UNDER the pedal!

Enter minimally with pedal.

Have you done any "search" on the forum here for "pedal" advice? I'm sure you'll find a lot of info. Search is at the top of every page to the right of Piano World Forums

I know you can do it! Good luck!

Betty

I'm not at all sure it won't transfer. I practice on a digital but play at church a couple times a week. I can move easily from my digital to the grand, but moving from the digital to one of the beat up unmaintained uprights, or from upright to grand, is misery.

Turn the master volume on your digital up high, then try to play softly - how could you not develop touch doing that? That's a practice technique simply not available on an acoustic. I guess you could do the opposite as well, turn it way down and try to play loudly. Not sure that one works, I haven't tried it.

The digital can create sound for you, but you cannot create sound through the digital. It will give you loud and soft, but there is no mechanism inside to respond to subtle shadings of what you are doing and so create shades of sound. There is no hammer that swings away, so that you can start to feel its rocking and work or play with it. There are no strings that vibrate, so you cannot play with the sympathetic ring of partials by using the physics of the instrument, becuase there are no physics. You have some engineer's concept of sound, some other pianist's touch programmed into the system and you are stuck playing what these two ghost characters have put in. The sound itself comes out of one speaker, rather than three-dimensionally along the soundboard, along the individual string and possibly other strings to create shades and color. But yes, you can get loud, soft, and degrees of staccato and legato.

I'm not at all sure it won't transfer. I practice on a digital but play at church a couple times a week. I can move easily from my digital to the grand, but moving from the digital to one of the beat up unmaintained uprights, or from upright to grand, is misery.

Turn the master volume on your digital up high, then try to play softly - how could you not develop touch doing that? That's a practice technique simply not available on an acoustic. I guess you could do the opposite as well, turn it way down and try to play loudly. Not sure that one works, I haven't tried it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not saying the digital is useless. It is a useful practice tool. And certainly there is a level of "touch" that can be developed on a digital. But at least in my opinion, you have a very real ceiling above which you cannot go with a digital. What is that famous quote about Chopin having 1000 ways to play pianissimo? Well, not on a digital.

I'm not an advanced player. But it was working on some Satie and some Chopin that I finally realized the range of sounds that can be pulled from a good grand piano. It's a joke trying to do it with a digital. It just isn't there.

And you may be right, I'm not an advanced player either. I'm probably not at the point where I notice the nuances.

But notice you used the phrase "good grand piano." My practice on the digital at home transfers very well to the grand I play for church services. They really aren't that far apart.

But I also use several other pianos the church owns, older uprights in the other rooms. Those are completely inferior to either the grand OR my digital.

How many of us can afford the grand? How many of us are playing on a used spinet, or a clunky old upright? How many of us will never reach our potential because of that limitation, yet we're too snobbish to go try a digital?

Now I think you're talking about a different set of issues. And that's not really the subject of this thread. I don't think anyone is being snobbish here. There is just a simple reality, that there are nuances and variances of tone and touch that a digital can not produce. That in no way implies that a digital can not be better than some old clunker spinet. I think people here have often recommended to those on a very limited budget that they should consider a digital over a craigslist clunker. (Hey, I think I invented a piano term!)

Piano techniques is your best bet and maybe spend some time with a classical teacher going over some simple but effective pieces to help you. I remember studying the Muzio Clementi sonatinas and sonatas and they have lots of dynamic markings and different tempos and if you practice them correctly that should help you get closer to your goals. Muzio Clementi (23 January 1752 – 10 March 1832) was a classical composer, and acknowledged as the first to write specifically for the piano. He is best known for his piano sonatas and his collection of piano studies
Clementi composed almost 110 piano sonatas. Some of the earlier and easier ones were reissued as sonatinas after the success of his Sonatinas Op. 36, and continue to be popular practice pieces in piano education. These are not often performed in public concerts, largely because they are seen as non-challenging educational music. However, most of Clementi's sonatas are more difficult to play than those of Mozart, who wrote in a letter to his sister that he would prefer her not to play Clementi's sonatas due to their jumped runs, and wide stretches and chords, (GREAT FOR JAZZ) which he thought might induce injury. Beethoven, however was a great admirer of the Clementi sonatas and their influence is very evident in his own piano compositions. DPVJAZZ
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I have joined this thread rather late, but to answer the question of the topic:-

I would say, if you wish to play the acoustic in the future and you can practice without disturbing the others in the house you will certainly develop the best touch that way by a million miles.

I have a digital keyboard which is tempting, used rarely, for silent practice but I know that I'm not at the touch fingering standard that my digital gives me to believe.

My acoustic is nearly new action, about 2 years old as the piano was totally rebuilt when purchased and is not over stiff as it has been properly regulated but none the less is not loose which many other pianos often are, when with worn action.

I have played an acoustic at a friend's house which is one of those mini pianos but its about 40 years old or more and has not been tuned for years and is in a damp room. The action is awful and really stiff. The owner is completely happy with it and plays the same sheet of music for ever.

I prefer any old upright that is loose to one like the mini upright above.

So yes,I would advise 100% to only use the digital when the acoustic is not available and do not be drawn into thinking, you will learn touch with it as you will not!

In fact any acoustic is better for fingering old and loose or not

Alan (swingal)

I am later than all of you to say something here, but my reading, for example of Artur Rubeinstein's life, led me to understand that the silent keyboard was used as a practice tool in those days when concert artists were traveling on trains, boats, etc., and it took a long time to get to their next concert destination. So, the silent keyboard afforded a means for practicing while away from a piano and on the road for any length of time.

As for touch, the fact that you are aware of this issue, means a lot and it will come. I have written this before elsewhere, but my teacher taught me to begin my exploration into touch by telling me to pretend that I was going through mud when playing the notes. I guess this idea helps you to start controlling how you play the notes.

I worked on my touch so that the sound of the piano would not travel to other rooms. Very difficult to do in an estate house where I was at for a seminar. The acoustics in the building are such that the sound travels from one end of the hall to the other. The challenge also is; if you touch too lightly, the hammer of the note you strike may not hit the string.

- Mark

Just to confirm what secondo says - my grandfather was in the piano and concert business for around 70 years. He knew a lot of top professionals and had occasionally supplied silent keyboards. He told me they were used when touring so they could practise in hotel rooms etc. This doesnt mean nobody ever used one to develop touch, just that this was not their purpose. I think my grandad said a lot of the big piano manufacturers produced their own models. These were substantial bits of kit and I dont suppose lots were made. I have never seen one myself. One person I know didnt have one is Duke Ellington, 'cause on one tour he practised on my grandad's own piano (not that my grandad could play a note, paradoxically!). That model K is in the room here with me right now.. Since I got it 38 years ago, I have been hoping for some Ellington talent to soak back out of the keys into my fingers!.... nothing yet !!!!