Hi
I really want to play the full versions of the Ragtime favourites, but I am struggling
I have tried Maple Leaf (my favourite), but I feel that it is just a little too difficult for me at this time. So I will put it to one side, and come back to it once I have a few other Ragtime tunes under my belt
So, the question is what Ragtime Tunes would be good starting pieces for a very keen Ragtime learner

TIA

Andy

I`ve just learnt `Ragtime Nightmare` by Tom Turpin and rate it highly. It`s much easier than the Maple Leaf and the score is around the `net. I can send it to you if you like :-)

Probably 'The Entertainer' Why not run through the recordings and see what you find simple and get some sheet music. I think there are music books covering much of the Ragtime popular numbers. Buy the DVD of Bill Dobbins jazz piano styles and that is very good on theory. He has written books on the subject too.

Visit www.jazzbooks.com I have bought quite a lot of DVD's from them. a good source. If you study the origins of Ragtime you will form your own base to improvise the style. It's quite simple as a base line. Scott Joplin did some numbers that were fairly easy.

Listening and forming your memory facility will hold you in good stead.

Alan (swingal)

Thanks
I just found it on the 'Net', and I will give it a try

Andy

I had a look through my Ragtime Tunes, and I found another of my favourites, Black and White Rag.
I gave it a try, and after an hour or so, I could play the first section at about 25% speed
But at least I could actually play it!

Andy

I have been working on The Entertainer for almost 12 weeks now. It is embarassing I admit. I just started back lessons and am an early intermediate player. I think I could learn a similar piece in much less time if I had started with better practice techniques.

I haven't learned them but I heard that the Willow Rag by Joplin is easier. I think the Maple Leaf Rag is one of his hardest to play at speed, and the Entertainer is another of the hardest.

Other easier ragtime pieces by Joplin include: Solace, Elite Syncopations, The Cascades and Palm Leaf Rag.

For me, I wasted weeks on the Entertainer trying to learn it at speed, thinking the mistakes would go away. My teacher told me this: For every time you play it wrong, you have to play it correctly 10x to fix. So, if you play something and hit the wrong notes, you are starting to build memory playing it incorrectly, and this takes time to fix.

Go very slow, and try to hit all the right notes. For me, I could not look at the music on the Entertainer and hit the right keys consistently on the left hand. I ended up memorizing the piece and playing it slowly, and now it is getting better.

Another mistake I would make is that if I played it right, relieved I would press on. This is incorrect. If you are learning part of the song that you have trouble on and finally get it, immediately go back and play it correctly several more times to help permanently train your muscle memory.

Don't give up, just take it slow. Also, learning one hand at a time until you have it correct helps. For me, once I am hitting the right notes, I try to get the timing down slow with a metronome. Once I know it well enough to keep from stalling, I am ready to practice the other hand, and then add them together at a slow speed. I really hate doing this because I am inpatient, but I find the results pay off almost daily in terms of improvement. I find I have to memorize Joplin pieces so I can look at my hands while I play. If I don't, I find my LH can't consistently find the right notes. This takes time and I know in months to a year or so this will be significantly improved.

Good luck and hang in there. Joplin isn't all that easy, but it is rewarding!

Rockschool have some good tunes in their Grade 3 (Bozo's Dead) and 4 (Lady G's Bounce) books which introduce/develop the mechanics behind Ragtime.

Maple Leaf (in Bb) is in their Grade 5 book.

http://www.rockschool.co.uk

Duplicate Post

I find Cascades to be fairly difficult, particularly the third section with the moving/jumping bass octaves that are sometimes practically on top of the moving treble octaves, but I'm not a professional, and so I can't really grade them. My feeling is that Cascades is more challenging than The Entertainer.

I also think that Solace is difficult, but for different reasons -- it has a "romantic" rubato feel than other Joplin rags. It could have been composed by Chopin, in my view! All are fun, though.

Kevin

The Entertainer is my first completed Joplin rag, tho I think Easy Winners is about the same difficulty. Black and White is a great choice, too, and maybe Dill Pickle, tho I've only got that in a lead sheet with chord names.

There's a study group for The Entertainer over in the ABF. You can click on the Important Topics thread at the top for a quick link. Wade's going to post his Entertainer there, aren't you Wade ? It'll give you some company on your learning road -

Cathy

Thanks for all the great replys
Great advice
I have also found really slowing it down, and trying to keep it as accurate as possible is really helping!
I collect my Roland FP-4 this week, not that it will help my playing! but I can't wait!

Andy

Hey Andy, firstly, congrats on discovering ragtime, it was the first music I really got into when I first picked up piano.

Secondly, Maple Leaf Rag isn't "too hard", it just takes work and some slow practise. Also, when you're working on the left hand patterns, to make things a little easier, invert the chords you hit on beats 2 and 4 so the leaps aren't as big, and once you're used to that, try the LH as written, SLOWLY!

Once you've learnt the piece slowly, it becomes evident that it's actually a lot easier than it sounds.

Trust me, I'm not an amazing pianist, but I performed the original Ab version within 8 months of my first piano lesson, so work hard and you will achieve!

Good luck!!

The first ragtime tune I learned was Cleopha, and then Maple Leaf Rag (in Ab). It would take me around a month to learn well and memorized, etc. That was about 4 years into my piano playing that I picked up those tunes. They were above my level, but I would just work on it measure at a time.

Ragtime is not difficult in the same way Liszt and Chopin are difficult. Nonetheless there are probably far fewer people who play it really well than there are pianists who play classical well. It demands a very highly developed sense of rhythm of a special type. Listen to good players and their various interpretations and try to develop an intuitive feeling for the idiom. David Roberts, Scott Kirby, Joshua Rifkin, Glenn Jenks, Max Morath, William Bolcom, Frank French, Reginald Robinson, John Arpin - these are a few who play excellent classical ragtime, each with his own individual slant.


Some ragtime, particularly that by James Scott, and some pieces by contemporary composers, although not exactly taxing, does have a certain physical awkwardness here and there. In general, however, a newcomer to the style will find the problems lie very largely in the musical area - phrasing, accents and rhythm - rather than with purely physical aspects.

Thanks Muzzzz for the good info
From my first thread, I have bought myself a digital piano (Roland FP-4) and have found with the proper action it has made a big difference to my playing.
I have since gone back to Maple Leaf, and as you say it isn't "too hard"
I have almost got the first section off now, not anywhere near full speed, but I am keeping it as accurate as possible so I can then build up the speed.
On the first section I have found it can be split up into several small sections.
Still a long way to go, but I am making slow progress

Andy

Many have mentioned "at speed", or "full speed" for the Maple Leaf. I was wondering what tempo you considered? It is not meant to be played fast. Should be around quarter note = 76.

I agree!
I have seen some videos on the 'Net' of people playing the Maple Leaf at silly speeds.
Very impressive, but not the right way IMO
I am only at about 25% of the correct speed so far, but its getting better!

Andy

One factor of pianistic ability that I think should be mentioned is that Digital pianos are considerably easier than acoustic.

Muzzzz, Your learning ability of the piano is extremely rapid to say the least. 8 weeks to be able to play M.R.rag ? Is that from scratch? or am I having a 'senior moment'??

Alan (swingal)

One other thing on Maple Leaf Rag, is there are simplified recordings of it on CD. In my muddled world cannot find it but it's around and will let you know when I find it.

Alan, (swingal)

I think my favorite, not too difficult Joplin is his "Magnetic Rag". There's a lot of ragging in the left hand while the right hand carries a beautifully flowing melody.

And as I recall, it's more complex than a lot of rags, with several contrasting sections.

And it's fun to play!

Hi, Walrus32. Welcome to PianoWorld. Don't know if you're acquainted with the Lake Superior Ragtime Society but they happen to be meeting tonight:

"The next get-together of ragtime fans and performers will be at the Dry Dock Restaurant and Bar, 2820 Midway Road, Duluth, Minnesota on Wednesday, July 11.

Music will start at 6:00 pm and continue until 9:00 pm. Food and beverages will be available by menu, so come early and stay a while!

Directions to Dry Dock: From Duluth, take Interstate-35 South, then Midway
Road Exit, North 1/4 mile."

If you can make it, tell them all that Sue and I said, "Hi!"

Howard

I have just received a copy of an English production of a CD " The Traditional Jazz Ragtime Collection" from Amazon UK. It is a compilation of 20 numbers.:-

Harlem Rag; B&W Rag,(piano rendition). Down Home rag; M.L Rag; Cole Smoke Rag; Perfect Rag; Climax Rag; Merrydown Rag; Froggie Moore Rag; Eccentric Rag; Liberia Rag; That teasin'Rag; Gladiolus Rag; Pleasant Moments ; Kinklets; Panama Rag; Dusty Rag; Tiger Rag; Chrysanthemum Rag; Hiawather Rag;

Most, if not all, are British bands. But from the era of Trad Jazz, so very good performances. If less known bands in the U.S.

May I also suggest that those wishing to learn the Ragtime style, do get as much listening done as possible. For me that factor is everything and as with Blues and Boogie, once you remember the style, the ad lib improvisation comes to you by ear.

Some time ago, on this forum 'Ted Jones'from NZ, did a recording of his version of M.L.Rag and that I thought was a very worthwhile example to get the tune in your head. Just keep repeating the recording until you remember it.

The standard popular 'jazz-keys' are used as far as I noticed while 'playing along' with the 'Amazon' CD. Which is my useful way of learning a piece of music by ear.

As another idea, try and take a holiday in New Orleans, or even part of a cruise in the Carribbean as we did last December. They are longing for more tourists and 'trad jazz' is very high on their agenda. They are recovering well after the dreadful flooding of some of N.O. now, and anxious to get more tourists back. Some of the nicest people you could ever wish to meet.

Alan (swingal)

PS, just found a couple of CDs you may like to listen to.

'American Classics'. SCOTT JOBLIN Piano Rags played by; Alexander Peskanov. www.naxos.com

and;-

'The Very Best of Scott Joplin' CD 6510 @2004v Delta Music.

This is the only info on them.

On the second one I have no info on the pianist. It just says all tracks 'public domain'

Good Luck, and do keep listening until it's in your subconscious Mind/brain.

I should like to read your comments if you have these CDs.

Alan

Hi Andy

I started on "The Entertainer" quite a while back. The octaves are the hardest part to play cleanly and definitely take the most practice. I do not find this rag particularly easy at all mostly for that reason.

Solace I have down quite well with the exception of the B section which is undoubtly the hardest. It is not as easy as it sounds but it is fairly accessable.

The easiest of the Joplin rags and also one of my favorites musically is "The Easy Winners". I started on this piece in February and have it down pretty pat and up to speed. The only section that really needs fine tuning now is the D section. I would highly recommend this one.

Thanks Vintage fingers
I will give 'Easy Winners' a try, I quite like that rag

Andy

Hi all, and thankyou for your kind words, Swingal! And yes, that was 8 months from scratch, so the MR Rag is really not THAT difficult once you've worked on it, but I'm 15 now and i was in my early teens at the time, which is probably when people are able to learn the quickest.

Zez Confrey is another one to look out for, but a lot of his stuff can get a bit tricky, and of course, look out for James Scott and Joseph Lamb.

All the best!

Hello all, first post here. This is an interesting thread for me because I'm an adult beginner (started from scratch around 3 years ago) with an interest in ragtime.

Magnetic Rag is gorgeous, but it is too difficult for me to play (even the abridged version took a lot of time). I finally was able to "learn" Joplin's Palm Leaf Rag, which also is a lovely piece of music, and it has two other advantages over Maple Leaf and other better known rags: 1) not as many people are as familiar with it, so if you play it for others, it's not quite as evident if you mangle it badly, and 2) it only has 3 parts, rather than the 4 (or 5) usually seen in Joplin's rags.

Right now I think I only am playing the notes for Palm Leaf, perhaps one day I will be able to play it musically. But my teacher hasn't given up on me and I slowly make progress.

It's interesting to see another Duluth area forum member (walrus32). I went to the get together at the Dry Dock a few weeks ago mentioned by Howard, and it was a lot of fun. Maybe some day I'll be good enough (and have the nerve) to play in front of others in a venue like that.


Aaron

YES, another ragtime player. Welcome, Aaron.

I used to drive up to Duluth for the weekend every fall when the colors were changing. A little far now

Aaron, over in the Adult Beginners Forum there's a Joplin Entertainer study group, tho we are currently waiting on a couple of miscreants to post their playing - check the Important Topics thread at the top of the forum for a link, and join us. There are others around, too - the July piano bar in the ABF has a wonderful rendition of Bethena, and there's been a couple of ragtime pieces in the recitals. Fraggle has posted Maple Leaf, Entertainer, and Tom Turpin's Ragtime Nightmare down in the Members Recording forum. So there are some kindred spirits here -

Cathy

Cathy, I appreciate the welcome, and I will check those items out. I currently am working on Bethena so I will listen to that version.

Every year we visit Santa Fe to visit family (one of whom is a forum member, Famous Pies) and we always enjoy it, it's a great break from the winter in Duluth.

Thanks!

Aaron

Hi Aaron and other ragtimers.

I worked up Bethena last year after close to 30 years away from the piano, but I missed the post in the piano bar. Must check it out.

My rag rep is limited to Joplin: Bethena, Solace, and MLR.

RF