Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#1139373 - 04/26/05 03:01 PM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
snake Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 65
Loc: uk
Bob whish Yamaha Digital piano do you have?
_________________________
sssssssssss

Top
Piano & Music Accessories
#1139374 - 04/26/05 07:32 PM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
footom Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/04
Posts: 55
Loc: new york city
I put the dots into a template I created in Photoshop then upload them to
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/porgy.gif
Bob331 was only able to print a few dot diagrams. Can you print all the way to the C7#9...the end of the voicing? (Bob, it was only one column. It looks truncated but ignore the little slice of the C keys along the right side.) So far only Porgy is there. I'll try to punch Sunny in right now, then will come Emily.


...er, uh, I've got Sunny ready to fly, but I guess I forgot how to upload....HELP!!!!!!! [img]http://[/img]

Top
#1139375 - 04/27/05 04:13 AM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Shalanna Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 73
Loc: Dallas area, Texas
Looking forward to seeing your diagrams! I only see a very small one-column graphic when I click on that previous JPEG, and it doesn't show the second column when you try to enlarge it. Maybe I am doing something wrong with that graphic.

I'm really disillusioned with the method. What he has done here is show you ONE way to make "cocktail piano" arrangements. There are many other ways to play jazz. George Shearing (doubling the melody in octaves), Oscar Peterson, Art Tatum, Chick Corea . . . lots of other styles and sounds. This is a very limited way of voicing the songs and would get monotonous for the listeners if you actually learned 15 of them that are voiced using this limited constrained method, as advised in the course materials. Best to figure out which songs really sound good this way, learn those, then move on to different ways of arranging. There are some neat books out on arranging for the piano with or without a fake book and how to teach yourself jazz piano (try Mel Bay books--they're excellent and under $10).

This course is really targeted toward people who know nothing about piano and have never played before. It drives me insane not to have real notation, for one thing. That said, it could be fun to voice several of your favorite songs this way. I don't seriously think that you would be mistaken for someone who has played lifelong, though, for the simple reason that when they say, "Do you know 'Memory' from CATS?" or "Can you do 'Melancholy Baby'?" or even "How about the Fur Elise?" you will not be able to play any other style. ('Memory' does not sound right to me played any other way except the way the staged musical does it. "Melancholy Baby" is better done in the old-fashioned style and really only appeals to drunks \:\) ) I mean, this is a cute addition to what I already know and can do. But it isn't the panacea that it's made out to be in the marketing materials. Hey, and he also says you must practice scales. News flash! Being classically trained (to whatever extent I can be considered eddificationed at all), I have already done that! And it means that the course is not really a quick fix.

I must also mention that I have had EVERY post and EVERY thread I've started there on the S. website either ignored or deleted outright. I also have not heard back from private mail sent to him. This is probably because I let on that I already know music theory, and the emperor may suspect he is nekkid (and may further fear that the little kid will soon be pointing this out.) He doesn't seem to want anyone who will say, "Hey, look, rock ballads as you mention on some threads don't have to be voiced in such a complex way. Here's how to play 'I Feel the Earth Move' and 'Anticipation' in the rock ballad style--do you want dot diagrams for them?" Not that I give a crap, and o'course it's his marketing site, but still, that makes you realize that he's out to sell The One True Way idea. I suppose anyone's in it to make a living, so hey. Still, rock ballads (which he mentions on a couple of threads on his website, 'cause lots of children of the 60s and 70s and 80s simply don't know the jazz standards well enough to play the melodies by ear, and he says you should try some of those) can be played much more simply and will sound Just Like The Record, IMHO. I've been playin' them since I was eleven.

Please don't try to play "You've Got a Friend" by Carole King voiced with his method, as he suggests on one thread. It would sound ri-di-cu-lous (as my niece likes to say, all dragged out and rolling eyes). It's a rock ballad and you just play it with the normal chords and an occasional sus4 and several diminished (add7) chords. Listen to the recording. It doesn't sound right with the jazz standards treatment. I keep meaning to hook up a MIDI keyboard and play some of my own by-ear arrangements to see what the notation ends up looking like.

George Miladin used to sell a "See and Hear Piano" system that was actually a little more comprehensive as far as how to play by ear in different styles and do intros/endings and embellishments like fills and runs. I don't think he has that on the market any more, but it was seriously more musicianly than this particular system. Just MHO.
_________________________
Music soothes the savage anything.
www.livejournal.com/users/shalanna

Top
#1139376 - 04/27/05 07:04 AM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Bob331 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 135
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by footom:

Bob331 was only able to print a few dot diagrams. Can you print all the way to the C7#9...the end of the voicing? (Bob, it was only one column. It looks truncated but ignore the little slice of the C keys along the right side.) [img]http://[/img] [/b]
I could only print out up to the 10th chord - the Ami6.

Bob

Top
#1139377 - 04/27/05 07:51 AM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Bob331 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 135
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by snake:
Bob whish Yamaha Digital piano do you have? [/b]
Clavinova CLP 130.

Bob

Top
#1139378 - 04/27/05 08:22 PM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
footom Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/04
Posts: 55
Loc: new york city
I suggest anyone who wishes to criticize the Sudnow course should first read the course materials through completely, and listen to the six-hours of CD materials, as stipulated in page one of the instructions, before posting heated criticisms of a course which might bring enjoyment to many people.

This includes people who state all their posts were ignored or deleted from the Sudnow website. I'm having trouble with this person's credibility, because I've responded to her posts on the Sudnow site, thus I disagree that every one of her posts was ignored.

David encourages people who have piano training to take his course. One thing he doesn't encourage is criticizing him without reading the instructions.

Anyway, I'm outta here for a while. I can see there is grief coming up which I sure as hell don't need, so I think I'll more happily spend my hours practicing the Sudnow method. I don't feel like sparring, so baby you can let it rip into thin air. I'm not going to look at this forum for six months.

David advised me to spend my time playing piano, not on the forums. He sure was right. Again.

All best wishes to those who weren't driven insane by the dots without notation.

TTFN y'all

Top
#1139379 - 04/27/05 11:42 PM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Shalanna Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 73
Loc: Dallas area, Texas
*grin* You thought that was "heated criticism"? You must not have been around the Internet for very long. All I did was post a review that wasn't glowing like all the others that have been posted here. It was a more objective review than what one usually sees on the Net, I think. Not sparring, not "grief." Simply a dissenting point of view (which is, I thought, one purpose of these forums: to examine differing views.)

Yes, YOU did reply to a couple of my posts on threads that were already established. You're the only one, I think. I *should* have specified that it's Mr. Sudnow who has never replied to any of my posts or my e-mails. Which is, of course, his privilege. I noted it as odd because he normally replies to the people on his boards and participates in the threads.

Here's what happened re my threads being deleted. I started a new thread on the discussion forum over there night before last, and came back in the morning to see if I had any replies (if, in other words, there would be interest in having me post dot diagrams of a 70s rock ballad with simpler chording that I think sounds better for rock), and got an error on the site saying there was no such thread. I figured I must've done something wrong. SO I opened a thread again last night. Left the browser window open. Came in this morning and "refreshed" the window to find that I'm getting the same error from the site--"no such thread--please report this error to the administrator" or something like that. This means to me that my threads were deleted. And it's because they weren't specifically about the method . . . I said that rock ballads could and should be voiced differently, not using the method outlined. And that was apparently considered off-topic. The site says that any threads/posts that don't discuss the method will be axed. Apparently, my thread was not sufficiently about the method. (I don't really agree, but hey, as I said in my original post--you could look it up if you don't remember this part--it's *his* board.)

Anyhow, I received the course materials early last week, listened to the CDs, and printed the PDF files. As I said, it's a method that teaches you ONE way to voice "cocktail piano" arrangements of songs. It doesn't really teach you "how to play the piano" or "how to play jazz piano" or whatnot. That's what I said in my original post, and I stand by that. I think offering the pieces in standard musical notation would be a nice addition, because I'll bet there are others who don't want to play from bulky dot diagrams. (My Russian teacher would think they were ridiculous, in fact . . . but then she reads music as easily as we read comic books. But I forgive her.)

Funny how it's not received too well if someone says that the course isn't the be-all, that improvements could be made to the course. The best defense of something is to refute (using facts) whatever it is that the questioner or reviewer has said that you don't agree with. If you don't have any defense or explanation, you can always get huffy and stalk away, making some kind of personal attack on the reviewer. That's the "ad hominem" argument that relies on inflaming emotion and ignoring reason. Now, which happened here?

I always think it's kind of silly when someone fires a parting shot of "okay, I am leaving and won't read this thread any more," because what it seems to mean is that whatever was said really got to them. Usually, the reason it "got to them" is because they sense truth in the point of view that's opposite from theirs. There really wasn't any rancor in my original post; I was simply saying that I'm a little disillusioned, as I had for some reason expected the course to contain some discussion of other aspects of jazz playing. How did you (footom) come up with the idea that I hadn't gone through the course? One positive thing I can say is that after I paid through PayPal, I got the CDs in the mail within four or five days. That's impressive.

Oh, well. It seems that the last fellow (footom) thought he was the only (or the most important) person reading the topic, because he says we can shout into thin air now. (It was kind of seventh grade stuff.)

Did the rest of you take my comments as some kind of flame? (Again, that would mean you have not been around the Internet for very long! \:\) ) I thought that newcomers might want to know that the course isn't going to make them sound as if they've played for years . . . until after they've played for years, of course.

Years ago, I took a jazz piano class at our local community college. Our instructor was not and is not famous. Yet he managed to show us how to play standards in several pianists' characteristic styles. The various styles are different, but all are good. I thought that was a lot more useful in the students' growth as a pianist than just showing one way. What the Sudnow course teaches is the One True Way. The believers, it seems, are very very loyal and take offense at any criticism. I'm a little surprised, because usually criticisms can be helpful even when you don't agree with them: they make you consider the opposite point of view, and you end up analyzing your own point of view, usually to your benefit.

Since there's no one here now but thin air, I'll sign off with: "talk to you later, thin air . . . you've been very refreshing, in comparison with the cloud of pollution we normally live under in this city!" ;\)
_________________________
Music soothes the savage anything.
www.livejournal.com/users/shalanna

Top
#1139380 - 04/28/05 06:11 AM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Bob331 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 135
Loc: NY
I purchased the Sudnow course and have just started to work with the materials. So far, I am really enjoying the playing. The Sudnow Forum is not very active, but I do get very prompt email responses from Mr. S. on questions that I have.

I don't believe that any method has all of the answers and I welcome anything that you would like to add to the knowledge of those of us who play (or would like to play) jazz/pop/rock/cocktail piano. So if you have suggestions or dot diagrams for other songs, I, for one, would love to see them.

Bob

Top
#1139381 - 04/28/05 11:52 AM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Shalanna Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 73
Loc: Dallas area, Texas
(Hi, Bob . . . not sure if you're replying to ME or to the previous person, so I'll answer. Thin air has a name! ;\) )

It's good that you get prompt responses. That's what I thought was so odd . . . that Mr. S. replied so quickly to other people on those boards and never to me. I had sent him private email a couple of times wanting to get a private lesson when he's in Texas. You know, though, maybe he had an old girlfriend named Shalanna or one who was in Dallas, and he thinks I'm that person, and wants to avoid her. You can never tell about these things. I'm just reporting what happens. \:\)

Um, okay. I am not much of a dot-diagram person, but then again I'm too lazy to notate most of the songs I play by ear. How do you feel about Carly Simon's "Anticipation"? It's rather easy to play as rock ballads go. Or "Try to Remember" from the Fantasticks. That one, though, has an arpeggiated chord in the LH. They don't sound cocktail piano, though--one is a rock ballad, and the other is a show tune. I will be visiting my cousin sometime early in May and she has a MIDI setup, so here's an idea. What if I played the songs into her MIDI setup, printed out the sheet music, and then made a dot diagram from looking at that?

You see, when I said the diagrams made me looneytunes, I meant I can't play from them. But I can glance at the notation and I'll just know where the key on the piano is, so I ought to be able to MAKE them. It's kind of like, I can graph an equation, but ask me to tell you the equation that a graph is done from, and I have to do a lot of work going that direction. So I think I could make diagrams for these songs.

The ONLY trouble is that THESE songs are still under copyright. My arrangement could be construed as a violation. So I'm not sure whether it's kosher to post them on the board or not. You wouldn't think that a big company like Warner Music (for example) would care if three or four people shared an arrangement, but you don't want to be made an example. So it might need to go, um, private mail.

(The issue they were discussing over on the Sudnow boards was that they'd like some newer tunes that they already know by heart, but that's impossible for him to do, because you have to work with songs that are in the public domain. That's why the old method books from when we were kids had stuff like "Drink To Me Only With Thine Eyes," "(Casey Would Waltz With A Strawberry Blonde And) The Band Played On," and "Long Long Ago" (yeah, exactly) from the 1890s . . . they were then just newly in the public domain.)

Or maybe you're not as old as I am and might want another song from the 70s era. Any ideas? Make it a pianistic song. You know what might lend itself to this? "Desperado," by the Eagles. But not "Beth," by Kiss. *grin* (Gene Simmons is just the type to come after me.)

I don't feel that I am stealing any ideas if I do make a diagram, by the way. He got that idea from the old "Pointer System" books for the organ and piano, and they probably got it from somewhere else. In those systems, you stuck a sticker on each key and then played as indicated on the keyboard pictures. Whee! That is why I could start playing through those books when I was four and didn't have to do lots of heavy reading (although I was a precocious reader and was reading the "Bobbsey Twins" series before I ever went to school, I don't think I could have understood all the stuff in those books--just the diagrams.) So the idea of a diagram is nothing new. (Not that he is wrong in using them, either. They're just . . . a pain, AFTER you read notation passably well.)
_________________________
Music soothes the savage anything.
www.livejournal.com/users/shalanna

Top
#1139382 - 04/28/05 12:28 PM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Bob331 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 135
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Shalanna:
. . .

I am not much of a dot-diagram person, but then again I'm too lazy to notate most of the songs I play by ear. How do you feel about Carly Simon's "Anticipation"? It's rather easy to play as rock ballads go. Or "Try to Remember" from the Fantasticks. That one, though, has an arpeggiated chord in the LH. [/b]
Both - great songs!

 Quote:
Originally posted by Shalanna:

What if I played the songs into her MIDI setup, printed out the sheet music, and then made a dot diagram from looking at that?

[/b]
Why bother with the dot diagrams? Why not just post your arrangement - I can read music and I suspect most of the people on this board can, too.

Unfortunately, I'm not qualified to discuss the copyright laws, although I'll try to get more information on this. One distinction is that David Sudnow is SELLING his songs, while you would just be giving away your arrangement. But that may not be enough.

Bob

Top
#1139383 - 04/28/05 12:31 PM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Bob331 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 135
Loc: NY
It strikes me that Sudnow is not violating the copyright laws because he is not publishing the actual music - just a diagram of an arrangement.

So maybe the dot diagram is the way to go.

Bob

Top
#1139384 - 04/28/05 01:33 PM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Shalanna Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 73
Loc: Dallas area, Texas
Well, I *think* that he may be using music that has come into the public domain. 'Cause an arrangement is an arrangement (to a lawyer--heh!) But lemme think . . . "StarDust" has come into the public domain, if I remember correctly, rather recently. I read something about that. But Gershwin's stuff is still covered, I think. And "Misty." So . . . who knows? It's really a tricky situation that I can sympathize with on both sides. As an author I don't want people to distribute versions of my work without paying a royalty, yet I would like my work to be more widely admired and read (parallel with "played") and wouldn't want to come after a fan fiction site (parallel with this, I suppose) and seem "mean." However, when corporations "own" something, they have no hearts. \:o

Now, here's something I *have* seen. People will just put down the letter names for the notes line-by-line. They trust that readers know the rhythm. (Aha, dot diagrams don't show the rhythm!) That would be less work than a dot diagram. (*grin*)

I am relieved to hear that other people read music. I was beginning to get worried. ;o
_________________________
Music soothes the savage anything.
www.livejournal.com/users/shalanna

Top
#1139385 - 04/30/05 12:21 PM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Shalanna Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 73
Loc: Dallas area, Texas
Okay, I sat down this morning and decided that although I'd be reluctant to post sheet music or a dot diagram, that I could do this kind of explanation of how I play one rock ballad/song by ear. I only hope Michael Stipe doesn't read this group. *wink* Surely he'd be flattered, and not in a litigious mood. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I thought that MOST people on this board would have heard this song and know it well enough to understand the directions.

This is a test. If you can play something that you recognize as the song using this, please let me know. We'll have "The Rock Ballads Method" for free. **GRIN**

"Cmid" means middle C. "Gmid" means the G above middle C.

What I'm giving you in detail here is the right hand part--the chords are in the RIGHT hand with the melody voice in them, usually at the top but sometimes in the middle. Your left hand will play a simple root-octave pattern--we'll discuss that in a moment.

"Losing My Religion" by R.E.M. in D minor

(Intro--Single notes above middle C and chords that "surround" mid C)
:G, A, G, D, (first chord) Bb-D-F/
G, A, G, D, (2nd chord) A-D-F (Dmin 2nd inv.):
F, D, F, G, F
--repeat lines between colons above--

(Vocal begins)
"Oh" G-Cmid-E (chord)
"Life" F-A-Dmid
"is bigger"--single notes D-E-D while holding down the previous chord--you'll hear what I mean

"bigger" G-Cmid-E (this could be played as G-B-E; ear test)

(from here on, pick out those melody notes yourself--let me know if you can't, but that wouldn't be likely)

"not me" F-A-D
"lengths" A-C-F
"Go" E alone
"to" bassE-G-Cmid
"distance in your" Emid-F-E
"eyes" F-A-Dmid

Okay, while you do this, in the LH you'll hit the root of the RH chord in the bass octave below. Syncopate it with its octave (you know, the lower D and the D above that) so it's like the guitar strum. You can also double the melody notes below or use the third instead of the root. Use your ear.)

Before I do more typing, somebody try this out and see if it makes sense.

Here's the ending--can't resist putting this bit in.

LH plays single note D on the 2nd D from the bottom of the keyboard.
RH: (start on A above middle C) A,G,F,D,G,F,D,F,D (getting softer so that final D is pianissimo)

Well, this may not make any sense. Or, if it does, it deserves its own thread, perhaps. What do you think?
_________________________
Music soothes the savage anything.
www.livejournal.com/users/shalanna

Top
#1139386 - 04/30/05 03:43 PM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Shalanna Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 73
Loc: Dallas area, Texas
To clarify--when you play the first chord of the intro of the song, you're going to "bounce" on that chord and on the root you're playing (B-flat) in your LH so that it sounds a little like the strum pattern on the original (guitar) recording. You're also going to do that kind of rhythmic "rock" playing throughout.

This prolly isn't too clear. If I get the Edirol portable recording device, I'll make an MP3 and put it up. I could never do that for classical music. . . \:o But for pop, I'd probably do it.
_________________________
Music soothes the savage anything.
www.livejournal.com/users/shalanna

Top
#1139387 - 05/01/05 04:32 AM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Bob331 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 135
Loc: NY
Good try. There may be others who understand this, but I'm confused. In part, it's probably because I don't know what the song sounds like.

Maybe we need someone who's an expert on music copyright law to tell us if there is anything you can do that would be more understandable.

Thanks for your help.

Bob

Top
#1139388 - 05/11/05 04:39 PM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
hmr516 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/08/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Merrick, Ny
I bought this course but have not started it yet. I downloaded all of the material about a month ago. I just tried to log in to make sure there were no download material updates, and now I cannot find the download web site. Does anyone here have a record of the sites web address? Thanks.

Top
#1139389 - 05/12/05 01:42 AM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
mauri Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 24
Loc: Barcelona
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bob331:
Good try. There may be others who understand this, but I'm confused. In part, it's probably because I don't know what the song sounds like.
[/b]
You can listen to the song here .
I'm sure you've heard it before ;\)

Top
#1139390 - 05/13/05 08:04 AM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Bob331 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 135
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by hmr516:
I bought this course but have not started it yet. I downloaded all of the material about a month ago. I just tried to log in to make sure there were no download material updates, and now I cannot find the download web site. Does anyone here have a record of the sites web address? Thanks. [/b]
Since the download web site is only for people who have purchased the course, I think you have to get this from David Sudnow. If you send him an email, he will send it to you.

F/Y/I - I also purchased the course a month ago and there are no updates.

Bob

Top
#1139391 - 05/13/05 08:48 AM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Bob331 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 135
Loc: NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by mauri:
You can listen to the song here .
[/b]
Sorry. That web site is in Spanish; I can't translate.

Bob

Top
#1139392 - 05/13/05 02:49 PM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
thomosh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 125
I just read this whole back and forth regarding the Sudnow method and wanted to chime in. I got the course back in December and listened to the CD's immediately. I think it's a good method to use as a supplement to anyone trying to learn piano. I agree that it's one way of voicing songs but never did I hear David or anyone say this was the "ONe True Way of Playing". I think he encourages you to pursue enrichment and growth in all areas of your musicality. And really I mean how much stock can you put in one indivudual's point of view anyway. Take the Sudnow method for what it is...a way to play nice arrangements of standard tunes and a way to get more familiar with theory, colorization, harmony, and chord progessions. But anyone would be wise to seek out multiple methodologies and advice. You can only broaden yourself by learning as many points of view and approaches as possible.

Top
#1139393 - 05/17/05 02:16 AM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
mauri Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 24
Loc: Barcelona
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bob331:
 Quote:
Originally posted by mauri:
You can listen to the song here .
[/b]
Sorry. That web site is in Spanish; I can't translate.

Bob [/b]
If you click the link with the right button of your mouse, you'll download it to your hard disk.

Top
#1139394 - 05/17/05 10:51 PM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Shalanna Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 73
Loc: Dallas area, Texas
So . . . hi, Mauri! Since you already know the R. E. M. song, could you follow my instructions on playing the first phrase or so, the stuff I wrote in the previous message? If you did, what did you think of the "arrangement"? Just kinda wondering. I still haven't gotten any kind of recording of myself playing that bit or any of the other songs I've recorded by ear. I need to borrow one of those Edirol R-1 thingies for a couple of days (supposed to be a great handheld digital recorder! Have not seen one in person yet, though.)

I do hope that some of you are progressing using whichever method you like. But don't forget that there are several ways . . . you'll probably prefer one "sound" over all the others, but it's nice to be able to do different things. Floyd Cramer rules. And God Bless Willie Nelson! (*GRIN*)

Mel Bay puts out some neat books. I recently went on eBay (bad, bad, bad spender) and picked up the Mel Bay "teach yourself" books on the blues, rock, and jazz piano. They've got lots of interesting info and ideas. But you do have to be able to read music to some extent.

Y'know, one thing that the Sudnow method emphasizes is NOT learning wrong notes. I can wholeheartedly agree with that. In the Beethoven sonata I'm working on, there is a wrong note (G instead of F) that has sneaked (snuck?) in, and every time I'm not thinking actively about it, it'll get me. Waaah! And there's only so much slow practice that anyone can stand, so maybe you can learn a couple of measures at a time and play them up to speed and memorize that way. Fast movements are different from slow movements when you're playing.
_________________________
Music soothes the savage anything.
www.livejournal.com/users/shalanna

Top
#1139395 - 05/18/05 04:24 AM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
mauri Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 24
Loc: Barcelona
Hi, Shalanna

No, I haven't tried it, but I'll try it some time later. My already practice time is overloaded right now and for the next weeks... :p

Top
#1139396 - 05/25/05 07:00 PM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Arnz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 11
Loc: New York
Hi

I bought the Sudnow method well over a decade ago. As a self taught pianist, I credit it with a good start at learning about the keyboard. Of course, the limitation is that you really don't get to learn a variety of arrangement styles with it. If you're a beginner, like I was, then its more important, like Sudnow says, to be able to visualize and grab chords quickly and be able to move from one chord to another. Again thats for a beginner, however, even an intermediate classical player with no ability with foming their own chords will benefit from learning to form chords thru scales

Until now, I've never learned to read sheet music and never really felt a need to. My level of playing after approximately ~10 years , of course, is high intermediate to advanced (pop, jazz, new age, etc). The benefit of learning and having the Sudnow method as the basis of my playing is that I never had to play anything I didnt like and never had a set amount of practice time (sometimes I wouldnt play for months). My music was always there under my fingers, at the spur of the moment whenever there was a piano around.

I recommend the course if you're a beginner, but recognize that at the start its a whole lot of work, and as somebody posted, arranging some songs the way its suggested will not sound great for some songs. But if you keep at it, the basic skills of playing the piano is the payoff.

If youre at the stage where you are considering whether you should do a stride or open vocing or trying to figure out what solo improvisation to put in your arrangement, then I say don't bother with the course.

Top
#1139397 - 05/25/05 08:16 PM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
kateriniparalia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/04
Posts: 139
Loc: Cali
Arnz,

Thanks for the interesting input. I noticed you're in NY. Did you ever have a lesson with David? Also, do you gig at all, or just play for fun?

Top
#1139398 - 05/26/05 10:47 AM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Arnz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 11
Loc: New York
Hi Kate,

No, I don't play any gigs, do they even have piano bars any more? I think its an endangered species. So its justa hobby of mine, I play at family get togethers, twice I played in front of an audience during variety shows accompanying a singer (loose definition of singer here, lol) and once solo playing.

No, I've never met David Sudnow, and I didn't know anything about his whereabouts till now. I just wanted to give my review of the product, which I think is the best way to start for adult beginners. Don't expect to learn arrangement styles. I actually thought to myself the first five songs i voiced sounded horrible, but I kept at it. The skills you develop along the way tho will enable you to learn different styles with a greater understanding.

Buy any other beginning course, and they'll try to teach you to read music, and play mary had a little lamb (bit of an exaggeration but you know what I mean).

Instead you should learn how to play the piano then learn to read music if you want. Think about it, as a child did you learn how to read first then learn how to speak?

This advice for all those beginner adults who would love to be able to sound really good a few years down the road. You have to know the scales and chords, and all the rest of the arrangement styles flow from that, if you know your C chord and you wanna arpeggiate it, you just break it up and move up and down the keyboard. if you want to stride, you hit the base note low in the bottom then hit an inverted chord in the middle...but try to start with that without understanding what youre doing and not able to grab chords fast enough and you will fail.

Actually I live in Long island kate, where are you from? Are you doing this course? Are you a beginner or advanced?

Top
#1139399 - 09/05/06 12:37 PM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
indianboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/29/06
Posts: 42
hey,
i am thinking of buying a piano course for myself. now i went through duane shinn's 101 weeks email lessons and found them pretty good being a person who had no ideas about chords at all(i can play the melody well though).now i know the circle of fifths,some basic chord progressions,the names of the chords,identifying the key of the song.now i want to take my piano playing a step further.I have three options to choose from duane shinn,yoke wong(www.playpianotips.com) and the sudnow method.which one should i go for.duane shinn's seems the best but it is darn expensive and my budget is $200.i cannot afford to spend more than this amount and want a complete course.also the course should preferably not involve any (or very little maybe) sight reading.do you people have some suggestions?

Top
#1139400 - 09/12/06 12:43 PM Re: Anyone here start with the Sudnow Method?
Bowflex Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/08/06
Posts: 4
Footom, would you happen to have the dot arrangements for "Days of Wine and Roses", "I Left My Heart In San Francisco" and "Autumn In New York"?
If so could you please cyberize and send them to me?
I had the old manual of the Sudnow method with the songs but the manual got ruined and have been looking and asking on various forums how to acquire them. Would greatly appreciate any help in this area.

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Moderator:  sharpsandflats 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
116 registered (ando, AndrewJCW, aesop, 32 invisible), 1296 Guests and 23 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75898 Members
42 Forums
156853 Topics
2304699 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
NY Steinway in Russia
by victor kam
3 minutes 3 seconds ago
DAMPP CHASER
by tksler
36 minutes 43 seconds ago
Cardboard shim for loose pin. Anybody heared about it's
by Maximillyan
Yesterday at 11:05 PM
Sheet music question
by Coconutyoghurt
Yesterday at 10:39 PM
Smelly MP11 (or MP7)?
by rungabic
Yesterday at 10:32 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission