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I am a very classical pianist. I try to play in a Jazz combo these days. But I found it very hard to get used to the improvisation (I have never done any improvisation before). Are there any ways or any books could help me to improve my improvisation?

Hi Ahha

There is a website devoted to all things jazz piano with a huge online community who like to talk about, teach and ponder anything jazz piano related! There is already a huge amount of discussions to read that talk about classical pianists turning to jazz and the best ways to go about it.

here :- Learn jazz piano website (click)

I am sure if you ask questions in the forums over there you'll get a whole heap of help on how to go about it and the books that will help you the most


regards


Lee

You can get MARK LEVINE'S JAZZ PIANO BOOK too. It might be a lot to swallow if you don't have a solid theory background though (you don't say whether theory was a part of your classical training).

If you're really a beginning jazzer you need to know what is meant by the typical chord symbols you will see in jazz like:

Am7 D7 Gmaj7 Cmaj7+11
F#m7b5 B7alt EmMaj7 E7b9

1)Learn how to sight read from a lead sheet
2)Learn what the common extensions are on all the chord types
3) Learn what the common alterations are on all the chord types
4) Learn the common substitutions on all the chord types.

Then just memorizze and internalize everything. It's a lot to do but you can get there a step at a time.

I'd also get a good voicing book. My current favorite is by Phil DeGreg. Frank Mantooth's is also excellent. (The DeGreg is a workbook with playalong CD, the Mantooth is more a voicing theory book for more contemporary harmonies.)

Though there are many excellent resources of jazz piano, most of them are too difficult for those new to this approach. Three pages in and you are already dealing with 13th chords and the like.

"The Next Step" is a new book that attempts to fill the gap between those with a limited knowledge of music theory and the college level jazz whiz.

Preview it here:
http://bradleysowash.com/sheetmus.htm

In reference to learning jazz, someone once said, "everything you need to know is in your living room".

You've had some good advice here, and I would only add that you explore the Aebersold books, but don't forget to spend more time listening to the great jazz players.

And have fun!

Thank you for all your responses. They are all very helpful for me . I am now starting learning chord symbols. And my friend recommend me to try some worship music. Could worship music help?

Worship music tends to deal with basic triads and 7th chords. If you need to work on those, then yes, it will help.

If your triads and 7th chords are in good shape, then it won't be all that useful.

Isn't jazz improvisation?? Being trained as a classical pianist, and having a good ear, thinking on the lines of theory first (personally) would get in my way.
I'm trying to find someone who can teach me to play jazz, by ear first. Like Ray Charles did with Jamie Foxx when rehearsing for the movie "Ray."
I know I would learn to play jazz very quickly with this method, and I would then see theoretically what I'm doing.
Just the way I learn best.
Does anyone know of a jazz teacher that teaches this way in the Pacific Northwest?
I did take a jazz workshop years ago and it was ALL based on theory. To me it did not make sense and stifled my creativity. Poor teacher.
After all jazz is based on improvisation.

But jazz improvisation isn't free improvisation. And an ear is best developed when you have some guidelines.

I do agree that too many people think that jazz is all about learning theory. The theory is simply a bit of framework for the real stuff.

I really think the theory helps. I was a listener of jazz long before I became a player. When I started playing I never knew how to find what I was hearing in my head and I kept playing elementary ideas and/or noodling to try to find what I was hearing.

After having studied some theory, I know what is common and possible. Having practiced from the theory, I am starting to make connections between things that are intellectual to things that are aural.

It's all simple and applied mathematics to a unique language. With any language, you gotta understand the sentence diagramming and parts of speech -- otherwise you're just noodling.

The theory is easy. All you need to do is account for twelve notes and place them in bins of varying degrees of prevalence in a given harmony. Any great player has a 'system' by which they do this.

It has become standard to put theoretical terms to the individual 'bins' or the collections of 'bins' containing the twelve notes, etc. Putting a name on a concept makes it easier! Not harder!

Learn the theory.

I'm all for putting a name on a concept, and I agree it makes it a lot easier. But you first need to learn the concept. I do know keyboard theory. But what I would like to find in a jazz piano teacher is to learn (and he/she can label what is being played) by demonstration and ear first!
Instead of giving me a sheet of paper and saying these are the chords used, go practice them, in all inversions. Here are the modes used (they're all written out, now go practice them) Here is lead sheet music, go read it and practice it.
No thanks! Don't get me wrong practicing scales and inversions are fine, and should be done, but the music should be the reason for this practice. Improvising. I prefer to use my ear, especially with jazz.
As far as diagraming sentences and learning grammar. Think about it... is this how we learn our native tongue? We first learn to speak, then we learn how to read and learn grammar. I feel the same way when it comes to learning music, after all music is aural; it is just like learning a language.
Again, I am all for learning theory as long as it is applied, and isn't learned in order to play the music, but instead learned to have a better understanding of it.

Hgiles, after reading your post again, it sounds like this is exactly what you have done, which makes sense! Perhaps having a teacher helping you "noodle" around, using some guidlines, etc...

Having played with Dizzy Gillespie in 1985, I asked him if he had any great secrets to reveal about jazz.
His reply, wear cool shoes!. I recall he was wearing a pair of white patent leather shoes at the time!

Jazz is nothing more than phrasing. There are no special notes, chords, voicings, lines, etc. that have been played in "jazz" that didn't already exist in Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Wagner, Bartok, Ravel, Ives, and countless others who came long before "jazz". The notes themselves are of lesser importance than how you attach and attack them!

Take a simple Bach invention and push (swing) each other eight note, as though the first eight note gets the value of the first eight note of an eight note triplet and the third note of the last eight note in an eight note triplet. Take a diminished run from Liszt and do the same thing as the Bach. Or a pentatonic run from Ravel. Sound familiar? Yep. "Jazz".

The swing, the push on every other eight note is half the story. The other half is each note being given its own life, its own independence of attack, decay, sustain, and release (its envelope) from the notes than precede and follow it. It's own dynamics. Take that same Bach invention, swing the eights, and experiment with differeing dynamic patterns. Emphasize every third note, or every fourth note. Emphasize with an accent whenever you "feel" it. That's jazz. Not the notes. Not the voicings. Jazz, is a way of playing.

Phil DeGreg's books have allowed me to expand exponentially on jazz piano. I actually have had the opportunity of receiving instruction from him at a Jazz Camp this past summer. Another book for just beginning is Jamey Abersold's books - they help you internalyze all of the chords and show you the tones that are best for improv...good luck with the jazz piano...I am not a serious jazz pianist - most of my focus is on classical, but jazz is a break from standard playing and allows me to have freedom with the keyboard.

Right on Virtuosic1!!
That is jazz! Exactly what I'm looking for. I will give your advice a try. I've also heard that instead of starting an A Major scale (for example) on the tonic, start on any note of that scale and play it with it's key signature (Bb,Eb,Ab,Db) ending on, who knows... and maybe modulating to (this is where a little instruction with theory might help) would it be the same as classical (sub-dominant, dominant, relative or parallel minor?) As long as the theory is applied and I'm playing it, that is what I'm craving!
Thanks for your post!!

I was recently teaching Joc cu Bata (Stick Dance) the first dance in a suite of Roumanian Folk Dances by Bartok. There are some wonderful chords in the LH bottom first page, that need to be played very legato. When I was showing my student how to practice these chords, I demonstrated how to practice them in different rhythms (not as notated.) It sounded so cool. Especially when adding a RH melody, if you want to call it such. I improvised the RH (sorry Bartok!) It was a great way to practice those LH chords and practice some improve and (jazz?) at the same time.

ahha piano.

Looking at the world famous piano jazz players like Fats Waller, Art Tatum, Oscar Peterson, Earl Hines, George Shearing (blind from birth) and many, many more. They all had formal teaching and played the 'classics'.

It is surely no bar to playing improvised jazz. Most certainly a big advantage. I wish I had been trained but as a child I always played by ear and that strange way progressed leaving me far clear away from any taught playing.

Virtuosic1 is indeed spot on with his opinions.

Another factor comes into play; that of a style of jazz piano! There are many styles that appear historically and perhaps students of jazz piano might benefit from that study.

Personally, I have a cut-off point and that is bebop I tend not to go that route but stick to the more dance-band rhythms in the jazz style of Benny Goodman's sextet and pianists of that era.

There is still a huge following of the more jiving music that sets your bodily reflexes in motion. It's that livelyness and beat that attracts me.

I find finger practice on the table top with both hands, great for losening the joints and at my age I even have to take a diet of anti arthritus food !

So as I said, new jazz enthusiasts might be best served to look at all stages of jazz and read the biograhical tales of many of the greats to see their reason for what style they played.

You could get the DVD of Bill Evans entitled 'The Universal Mind of Bill Evans.' That is about self teaching and the creative process.

It's good for modern style adaptaions.

Alan,

I have been paying attention to a lot of big band swing music and waltzes.
I really enjoyed this site The origins of big band music..A history of big band jazz as it helped me to understand and feel more jazzy..
Instead of playing by reading notes I try to play by memory but my memory is horrific so I end up with tons of improvs.. Makes it fun and really interesting if you add some slides up and down the white keys ever so often makes it really flavorful...
Just have fun and you will soon catch your own jazz style.. I believe after learning a bit more about the well known trumpeters in jazz is that every jazz musician developes a unique sound or style of playing... Perhaps a piano jazz performer would too..

there's jazz improvisation and free jazz improvisation.
free jazz improvisation is where you discard the harmonic structure which IMO sounds like crap!
to improvise well in jazz, you need a thorough understanding of jazz theory IMO