Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner - Non Classical Can someone help me identify this chord?

The Chord is:

LH - B to B (8va)/ RH - is D# A B D natural!

The piece is called "Rocker" and the chord is on page 17 of Christopher Norton's Connections series Book 6, in e minor. Its a beautiful chord and sounds great, but this is driving me crazy cause it's got both D# and D natural in the right hand and its throwing me! I think it's a transition chord cause the piece is changing keys from G major to e minor, but I can't figure out what chord it is!

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

I'd call it a B7#9 Diane.

Best, John

Thanks J-B,

Okay then, shouldn't they have written the music with a Cx instead of a D natural?;

Then it would be,
LH - B-B(8va)/ RH - would then be D# A B Cx?

They can't have D# and D natural, wouldn't they have to write the D natural as a Cx, right?

Yes, it should be a Cx.

In this particular case, you are right, it should be a Cx. However there is no rule that says you can't have the same note both natural and sharp within the same chord.

Granted, in key-signatures for tonal music, each note can only have one quality (i.e. flat, natural, sharp). But apart from that, there's no rule.

To cite one example, Chopin's Nocturne op 32/2 has a chord with both an F# and a Fx.

Yes, but you are talking chromatic change, where we are talking here about enharmonic change. I'm working with Cx as opposed to D natural. Same note, different name.

This is exactly why classical theory and jazz theory are a lot of the times not on the same page.

Classical theory analyzes stuff to death! Where as the Jazz players just flatten this and sharpen that. I like their concept a whole lot better, but for classical theory, I'm talking about the scale B+ where C is the 2nd (or 9th), so in order to be the 2nd, C has to be Cx otherwise if you take D, you are working with the 3rd (or rather the 10th), and just to get this discussion more confussing, you'd have to take E and double flatten it (Ebb) to make it the D natural, so I'm guessing that even though J-B is correct in calling this chord B7#9, why then could it not be B7bb11. So then it would be,

LH - B - B(8va)/ RH is D# A B Ebb!

All I can say is jazz players just play the thing and don't analyze the political correctness to death!

Somedays I really wish I could wash all that classical theory right out of my head!
EDIT: Changed the word diatomic to enharmonic.

Talking about theory it seems strange that many people that could barely afford a second hand piano in the New Orleans area, where a lot of good jazz was born,learned the way to play piano without theory or very little. I rather think that modern style jazz is bound up and dependent on theory to express the tones that they survive by. You almost need to have theory to listen to it. Sorry to say it,but some does not do much for me.

I can listen to Bill Evans, I have his last DVD. I like Jaques Lousier and his Bach.

The soul is what jazz means to many and unusual themes and uneven beats are too abstract for my brain, too old you may say. Erroll Garner my style of jazz. And Fats and Art Tatum and Oscar ......

Alan (swingal)

Some people like to call a #9 a b10,makes more sense to them. Although I have never seen it written that way.

It is sort of odd that a chord would have a b9 and a #9.... But when you think of it as b10, it kind of all makes sense.

Actually the D# is a major third. The "D" stands alone as a 9th (#9th that is).
Best, John

I see what you mean.I should have added:
having #9 doesn't mean you can't have a b9. Having both a b9 and a #9 in a chord is where things get odd.

What I'm trying to say:
You could look at it from the standpoint:
I have a major 3rd (D#), and a flat 10 (D).
Rather than I have a 3rd (D#) and a #9 (D).

I'm not suggesting you start using the B7b10 nomenclature, but from a theory standpoint, it kinda makes sense to me.

In Jazz theory as for chordal extentions you have
7th,9th,11th and 13th.When one is sightreading a complex chord chart,the goal is to play it not analyse it's proper nomeclature. These extentions always imply that there is the b7 in any 9th,11th or 13th chord. There is a reason why one may flat the 5th instead of a #11th.

They key of G and E minor have the same key signiture in that Em is the relative minor of G major. You already knew that but I figured some may not.

guys, an ALT chord has b9 and #9 (as well as #11 and #5). Nothing odd about it at all.

In jazz at least, #9 sticks out specifically as suggesting ALT so often #9 and #5 (b13) are voiced.

The chord in question in here suggests an ALT voicing to me.

Whether the natural D is referred to in an enharmonic equivalent doesn't change the function in my jazz way of thinking.

In fact, a lot of leadsheets don't even bother with the key signature ( what key? A jazz tune will be modulating enough times that you'll just make a mess of the music ) I'd probably prefer that everything in jazz leadsheets have no key signature if it's going to be modulating. But that's me.

The Alt chord can be derived from the jazz melodic minor 1/2 step above the root of your chord.
Try playing the B7 chord in the LH and run a c jazz Melodic minor in the RH.(jazz minor indicates that you run up and down the scale the same way. do not change to natural minor on the way down.)
The B7 #9 functions as a dominant chord so it is setting up your ear to hear an Em.
My brain hurts.