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Hallo friends,
Do you like rain? I like it very much; I don’t mean storm now, but a calming, silent rain. Sitting at the window and watching I got felt moved to express it at the piano and this night I have written it down. It’s a sentimental piece, so not everybody will like it, but if you like such music, just listen and say me your feelings and what you think about my music.
As usual I am posting the sheet music for piano and the audio files.
Don’t hesitate to give me negative or positive feedback!

Rain for piano
Sheet music:
www.4shared.com/file/38781639/2f2f4038/rain.html

MP3, piano
www.4shared.com/file/38781615/14af6e91/rain.html

MP3, another piano
www.4shared.com/file/38782143/9741868a/rain2.html

Very nice piece, Pukino! I think once or twice you lifted the pedal too soon (because the low bass tone stops ringing halfway during the measure) but it was very enjoyable regardless.

Very Nice.

Initially, I enjoyed this piece. The early texture really did remind me of rain.

I have two issues 1) the contrasting chordal thing didn't work for me, it comes in abruptly and then is done. That idea is never really worked into the fabric of the piece. 2) while I heard things that sounded like melodies they weren't particularly strong or notable. This piece relies on the texture so maybe melody isn't important, but if you include melodies they should always be strong. In any case I liked the first 45 seconds after that you lost me.

Excellent piece... I think you have a great bent for melody.

Chandler, I don't mean to be confrontational, but what do you mean by "strong?" If I received that comment I would be completely at a loss to know how to benefit from it. I mean personally I thought the melodies in this composition were very strong. What am I missing?

Hi fellows,
thanks for your comments!
As Steve Chandler wrote that the chordal fortissimo part doesnt fit the piece for him, I must say that some people dont like it and some love it, its a matter of taste. I just wanted surprise, shock, like a sudden thunder in the rain, but not the beginning of an storm, it calms down after a while. This is the idea of it. :-)

Steve wrote: "I heard things that sounded like melodies they weren't particularly strong or notable." Thats the hardes criticism a composer can hear...

Hi Pukino,

Normally I try to be gentle, in fact normally I don't offer any criticism if I don't believe a piece has much merit. I enjoyed much of your piece and of course what I've said is strictly my opinion.

So let's talk about melody. I've studied with a composer who worked with Nadia Boulanger. He was after me to hone my melodies, because that was her biggest thing. His point was they can't be too good, so when you think you've got a strong melody evaluate it with a critical ear. Does it have a strong sense of direction? Does it have rhythmic qualities that are unique? Does it have an unexpected twist? Why not take your critical ear to those melodies and see if maybe I have a point.

Now to your fortissimo surprise, I have no problem with surprise. My point was that the surprise just came and went and didn't get integrated into the music that followed. If you're looking for ideas on how a great composer has integrated a storm into his piece listen to the storm movement of LvB's 6th. I don't expect you to rewrite Beethoven, but you can certainly get some pointers from this piece. Listen critically to how he does it, what themes does he use, what's the harmonic structure?

If you've studied Beethoven's life you know he kept notebooks that show his efforts to improve his themes. The man struggled with his melodies, but he wasn't satisfied with them until they were great. Some people like to say LvB was poor at writing melodies, that's because it was difficult for him. He wasn't like Schubert who could spin out great melodies with ease. Most composers have more in common with LvB than Schubert in regard to composing melodies, there's no shame in that. Whether you take my advice matters not to me, but it might to you.

The music business can be far more cruel than I've been. It's just something you have to get used to. Criticism is actually a good sign, it means you were good enough to warrant a comment.

I just listened to this piece again (and enjoyed it very much)

and for fun, checked out some of Steve Chandler's music on his mp3 page. I didn't like it very much. I personally (and honestly) did not find his melodies very strong, at all.

Chandler, did you even listen to this piece?

"Now to your fortissimo surprise, I have no problem with surprise. My point was that the surprise just came and went and didn't get integrated into the music that followed."

The part you talk about came back a second time.

Sounds like you were content to listen to the first minute and then criticise this guy's work without much effort. Sorry Chandler, but that doesn't "work" for me =) Come back when you've learned to be a kinder human being =)

Thank you anyway for going to listen. Sorry you didn't find much to appreciate.
I've already stated my impression of the piece and yes I did listen to it, all of it, even the 2nd coming of the fortissimo surprise.
Personal attacks are against forum rules, please refrain from making them. This is all getting very personal and it almost sounds as if Zom and Pukino are the same person. I'm sure you'll deny that, but if that's the case it's a violation of forum rules.

Having a section come back a second time is not the same as integrating it into the piece, especially when it's a brief 8 bars or so of music. Truly integrating that section would involve taking an aspect of the fortissimo surprise and making it a part of the rest of the piece. For more detail on how to do this refer to any 2nd year music theory text.

It could be argued your original remarks to pukino were personal also. You can't just expect people to just meekly take your remarks and not anger someone. I am honestly annoyed by behavior such as yours. I know you're probably not going to stop, but I just want you to know there are people out there who can see through you and believe what you are doing is wrong. At worst, you may ruin some people's desire to create--and that to me is tantamount to murdering someone's soul. Think it over for a while before you respond. Maybe pukino wasn't thus affected---I hope not. But just try to be more sensitive.

OK Zom, I listened to some of your improvisations, you certainly noodle with the best of them.

Rather than tell you what's wrong with your music let me tell you what's right with a piece I consider a good example. Here's a link to download the Children's Corner Suite by Claude Debussy.

<http://kreusch-sheet-music.net/eng/?page=show&query=Claude%20Debussy&order=op>

Take a look at number 6, Golliwog's Cakewalk. I'll just analyze the first page for you. It starts with an easily identified motive (bars 1-2) in both hands which then turns into the principal theme (beginning at bar 10). Notice how the Cb becomes a distinct and uniquely identifiable feature. Notice how the rhythm is consistent with a syncopated motive followed by two eighth notes. I think we'll get no argument that this is strong melody writing. Now please point me to a time in any of your improvisations where you play a melody that comes remotely close to being this strong.

BTW, I'd be happy do the same for my own music.

Zom,

I was curious so I went to your website and listened to the first 2 minutes of the one labeled "March 4", then listened to the first minute of the one labeled "February 27th 2008". Finally, to the first five minutes of the one labeled "October 8th 2007" -- while reading the "About Piano Improvisations" comments you wrote.

First, I found the beginning of the last two that I cited to be very, very similar. The first one was quite different. The October one contains an interesting jazz feel to part of it, although the tempo is a bit slow for jazz.

Now, a question: are you still just trying to create what I'll call "mood" for want of a better term? That is, are you still looking toward "dark sounds" -- you don't really clarify if you are moving toward other goals in your improvisation.

Ed

Hi guys!
Whats going on here?
To Steve Chandler: Of course me and Zom are two different persons! I dont know anybody at this forum, I just posted some pieces here, thats all, I never have written something bad about anybody. I have also nothing against you. For me every piece of music consist of melodies, even in the bass line, thats why I wrote that its the hardest criticism to say the melodies are worthless, not notable. Does a music exist without melodies? I never have heard such a music.

Anyway L.v.Beethoven is my favourite composer, so I dont unterstand people who say he was poor at writing melodies. Thats nonsense. I am now listening to his string quartets and they are beautiful melodies everywhere, in all staves.

Sorry for doing this in your thread pukino, I know you probably are a good natured guy and not bothered by any comments here. I just get annoyed by people who think they know everything and go around lording their knowledge and opinions in everyone's face.

I did not want to draw attention away from pukino's excellent little piece. If you'd like to discuss my improvisations, please start a new thread. I'm not interested in what anyone thinks about them though. Especially not stuffed shirts who are going to try to beat me over the head with Debussy and music theory books. I like Debussy--but I'll learn from him in my own way, with my own ears.

With that I sign off from this thread.

Again, I enjoyed your piece pukino...also your sonata. Keep it up!

Regards,
-Zom

Hi Pukino - I just wanted to let you know that I enjoyed the piece as well. I wasn't crazy about the part where... I'm not sure how to describe it (I think it was right before 2 minutes, and it started to sound more broken up or synthesized or something) - I almost thought I was having a problem with the file - it just wasn't my thing, but the rest of it was pretty awesome to listen to - thanks for posting it!

Steve - I actually appreciated that you took the time to write out your comments, and personally didn't find them harsh (of course, easy to say when they weren't aimed at me I guess!). As a beginner, I find it helpful to read an objective critique like this, to understand what things people listen for and how they see all the elements of music fitting together...

I'm almost afraid to post...

To me it sounds like a very heavily quantized MIDI file - almost like it's just playback of notation. The composition is fine but I don't sense that it was played by a human. It's far too rigid and lacking in passion and dynamic and there are several places where some crescendos would really bring this to life!!

Am I right? Is this just notation playback?

Curt

brrrr, a storm passed over this thread, but I guess it's alright now.

Really enjoy the piece. I agree that the recording is a bit stiff, if a single thing could improve it, it would be to make it more dynamic, a bit more light and free.

The second recording has too much reverb/echo to be truly enjoyed.

Maybe you could share with us how you made it. Directly on the piano, sheet or computer? Did the theme came at the very beginning or later on?

Thanks guys that the attention is focused on the piece again :-)
The mp3 file is no live recording, its computer rendered, it sounds better live but I have no good conditions to record it. Thats also why I am also posting the score, so you can play it free as you like by adding your human interpretation.
This one is not difficult to play, but e.g. the sonata in c-minor I already posted here is hard to play for me although I composed it sitting at the piano :-) Be lucky not to hear me playing the 3rd movement :-) Thanks computer I am able to hear it as it is ment to be but I am sorry that its computer sounding.

To MissT: "Did the theme came at the very beginning or later on?" I dont understand what are you asking exactly, what do you mean?

Sorry, my english is not very good.

I mean, Rain is the title and so I guess the thematic of the piece. Did you start to make a piece about rain before the first note or did it came later on?

Ok MissT. At the beginning I didnt wanted to compose this piece it was raining outdoor and I was alone at my piano and felt free to improvise and I loved the theme which was fitting the atmosphere. So I made for my personal needs a simple live recording not to forget the main theme (with many mistakes, imagine it like a sketch of a painting). And later, weeks later, one night I returned back to it, listened to it and loved it again and wrote it down and share with you. Is this you are asking?