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do most pianists normally compose with pentascales or the whole scale? also, do piano players typically use the dorian etc scales to compose or are those more popular with guitarists?

Hey Lucki,

I compose from the heart. I'm sure music theory has rubbed off on me somewhat, but I'm not concerned with it anymore.

Try forgetting about everything you've ever learned about music theory and compose from within the deepest part of your soul (heart). That's what music is about to me - pure emotion.

The music can be theoretically perfect, but if it doesn’t touch one’s emotions it’s worthless.

Sorry if I came on a little strong.

A listener recently told me this Christmas song composed by me (lyrics by: Cal Francis DiFalco)
"Once Again"
http://www.artistcollaboration.com/~johnny-boy/Once%20Again-Mix%201.mp3 ,
made him feel like committing suicide after listening. What a great compliment. The music touched his heart.

Best, John

actually, your reply is very encouraging. ive never heard it put that way before. so really, when you go to write a song, you dont need a specific key in mind? will it originate into its own key?

so i guess i should go by your quote at the bottom of your replies "stop analyzing, just compose the damn thing!" lol

thanx again!

I'm glad you understood it as encouraging Lucki. It was meant to be.

Composing a song starts with the lyrics for me.

I'll close my eyes and become the lyrics. I once composed a song to lyrics about a young child that died of leukemia (it was based on the lyricist's relative that lost their child to leukemia).

I sat at the piano, and I became the father of that child (emotionally). I laid my fingers on the piano keys and started playing - actually capturing my deepest feelings.

I didn't think about scales, chords, keys, or anything but what I was feeling about having my heart torn out for loss of my little girl. While I was playing, tears were dripping down my face.

This is what I meant by composing from the heart. I was expressing musically what this father was going through emotionally (at least in my mind).

I recently composed a song to Cal Francis DiFalco's lyrics “Let It Rain”. I piped into the feelings I had when I lost my highschool sweetheart. I often use my own life’s experiences to set a mood.

We just composed a song titled “Simpler Times”. When I was growing up (pre-computer age) the population of my area was under 10,000. It’s now over 120,000. I can remember how much simpler things were back then. I traveled back in time (the fond memories of my childhood) to garner up the appropriate emotion for the music.

This works for me. If I were to consider scales, keys, or if this or that is theoretically correct, I’d never get off the ground.

I hope I’m coming off as sincere rather than arrogant, because I am sincere.

Best, John

All of my compositions have crystallised out of improvisation. Stating it positively, I find spontaneous creation very easy and natural. Stated negatively, I suppose I lack all formal discipline. Good or bad, that's the way I do it and efforts to do otherwise have been dismal failures.

Scales ? Unless you are deliberately creating in a historically defined style I think no more so than any other element of musical vocabulary. The whole keyboard is just one big chromatic scale anyhow, so in that sense everything else just comprises subsets of it. The ordinary scales are just those subsets containing closely related frequencies. Sometimes you might want them, sometimes not. It depends on what you want to say. Sometimes you might operate within one or two scales, other times you might have a pantonal mixture or no discernible tonality at all.

In the end all that matters is your ear and your mind.

I stopped giving a **** altogether excuse my language. I think its important to know music theory especially knowing what your doing.. but I seriously sit down in the dark and just play and listen to how the sounds roll together... then record what I like, and find out what I wrote then night prior by putting it to sheet music in the morning.

joseph...that is a really good tip. so what if i recorded something, but when i go to write it down, i cant figure out what i played? does that ever happen to anyone?

A lot of it may be just playing around and hearing what sounds good and what doesn't sound good -- but if you know the theory, then that relieves you of having to waste your time guessing around, because you'll already know to a certain extent what is going to sound good and what is not.

That is a fundamental conundrum, luckicharm. There are a number of answers depending on the desired end result.

Record everything on a digital piano or buy a Moog piano bar for your piano. That will give you the pitches but will not notate rhythm unless it is very simple.

Improve your ear and wear out the tape trying to pick it up afterwards - not a viable solution for most of us.

Use "stop/start" improvisation and develop your memory to the extent that you recall everything. After several sessions, the finished piece will be formed and writing it out is trivial. Many people compose in this fashion.

Use "stop/start" improvisation and fill notebooks with anything you think worthy of writing out. Later on, construct formal compositions using the pile of small ideas in the notebooks. A number of composers work this way.

Treat improvisation and its recordings as both means and end and forget about written composition altogether, e.g. Jarrett.

well i have an electric piano...maybe for xmas my dad will get me some toys to record with and ill post some songs here so you guys can critique me
along with the comments you guys gave me here, my dad explained "modes" to me, and keeping all of this in mind, my songs in the last week have gotten a whole lot better. although i dont "stick" to the scales, i do keep theory in the back of my mind when i write. sometimes ill sit at my piano and just play this beautiful song from the top of my head, and when im finished, i cant remember what i played!

For composing songs I myself like to know what the root note of the composition is and whether it is predominantly going to be either major or minor. From there scales serve as suggestions but I don't strictly follow them as such.

For example: http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/41/275.html)
This song is in C-major and used the F, F#, G, G#, A and Bb notes. Try fitting that in one scale. The most important thing is that the harmony and melody sounds good given the context, whether or not the entire piece fits in one scale is pretty irrelevant.

Yes. Thats true at composing. It's all emotion, and nothing else. But you have to know your theory before you get there. I started when I was younger by freely improvising at the piano, but I was very limited till I started to actually understand what I was doing. That dosen't mean I think of the dry information when I play. It just comes out naturaly. But again, I wouldn't have been were I am without learning.