Hey all! Encouraged by the amount of support I got from my proposition of a collaborative project I’ve drafted a set of guidelines and rules for a joint compositional endeavor. I liked Kcoul’s idea of creating a sort of programmatic suite so I dug around for a set of poems or other such material we could base our suite on and came up with Robert Frost’s "Mountain Interval." I chose this work for a number of reasons: it uses lots of imagery, it’s accessible, and it’s comprised of many poems of varying lengths. The work can be found here http://www.bartleby.com/119/index1.html .

So this is how this project will work:

This thread will be the main thread. On this thread you can offer general comments and suggestions, but nothing specifically regarding your part of the suite. Each person who participates in this project will have a separate thread for their movement of the suite where people will listen and comment only on that person’s movement. The name of the thread should start like this one, with the letters “MIP” (Mountain Interval Project) prefacing the topic name. The reason for all this is to reduce disorganization and clutter.

Each person will choose a poem from Frost’s "Mountain Interval." Choice of poem is on a first come first serve basis and one claims a poem by starting their thread. There are 28 to choose from so finding a poem you like shouldn’t be very hard. For now each person may only choose one.

At least once a week, each participant must provide an overview of the state of their movement in their thread. This overview should be backed up by links to an audio music file and preferably a score file as well. A nice hosting service for the music file may be found here http://www.savefile.com/ . For those of you who don’t feel comfortable using this service feel free to email your piece to me and I’ll post a link to it on your thread. If you’ve got your own website you can use that.

As for the type of pieces for this suite, it’s open to any style: romantic, classical, jazz, whatever. The only requirements are that it be for solo piano, performable, and that it not be too long, anything under 10 minutes is fine. As for the rest, it’s totally up to you.

Well that’s it for now, I’m sure I left some things out but we’ll keep adding and revising as we go along. Keep in mind, however, that while I’m trying to make this process as democratic as possible, there has to be some degree of autonomy assumed lest nothing get done. Hopefully we’ll have enough people in this to make it diverse and fun. This project is open to anyone, regardless of skill level, so pick a poem and have fun!

most excellent idea wise sir, I like the organization and most of all I like the novel approach of having MIP: xxxx threads by each individual person so that

1. it helps revive the composer's lounge and creates some bustle here which will bring more composers and

2. it will keep us from having a chaotic main thread where everyone will be posting and commenting on everyone's stuff all over the place...

like I said, I like the idea though I can't comment on the actual poems yet, I haven't seen them yet but I'm about to go check them out now, as for the rest of you spread the word and get as many composers in here as possible, maybe we'll end up putting together a nice lil pianoworld anthology of vignettes and if they're good enough maybe get them performed/recorded by someone in the pianist corner.

well, off I go to steal the best poem...

i like the idea too, but was hesitate to join because i cannot compose very well. but hey, let me just do it as an exercise or homework or something.

i looked a few poems there, and want to choose that 'passing and meeting' which seems to be good for me to write a simple piece on (as i can't write anything too complicated).

well signa, if you're really interested about becoming better at composing maybe this would be a good opportunity for you to work with some other composers and later on when we're all sharing our stuff you can get tips, pointers, and help etc with your composition, I look forward to the same thing.

anyhow, I just looked over the poems though and I must say that I'm not sure if they're such a good idea, well I only looked at a few but it seems to me almost none of the ones I saw were suitable for music because they were a little too heavily steeped in a story line with dialogue etc. If something like that is to be done like Schubert's erlkonig etc then it is more suitable if it's a piano with voice lieder etc, but it seems to be pretty hard to write something for piano that entails a story line or especially dialogue.

I may be wrong I'm going to continue looking at the rest but what do you all think? After thinking about it some more I think that the ideal thing is a group of descriptive quotes such as Schumann used for kinderszenen (Scenes from Childhood) like "Chickens clucking," "Children Playing," the famous "Reverie(Traumerei)," "About Strange Lands and People," but something like this on the other hand may be too simplistic for some people's tastes and they may prefer a more complicated description or storyline to compose to.

Anyhow let me know what you think, I'm going to go look at more of the Frost poems to see if I change my mind

These are just ideas but let me know what you think, if others also find the Frost not right for this project, we could:

1. just copy straight from Schumann's Kinderszenen and use all of the piece's names, after all there's like over 10-15 I think, though obviously you don't have to compose in the style of Schumann.

2. do a Pictures at an Exhibition type of thing and find a set of paintings/artwork/etc that can be used as source material to compose to instead of a literature source.

o crap I just found some really good stuff. Check this out guys tell me what you think:

http://www.americanpoems.com/poets/waltwhitman/

apparently all of Walt Whitman's poetry, some of it is extremely good and suitable for this.

Check out half way down the page the series called "Whispers of Heavenly Death"

and there are many others that seem to me to be better than the Frost. What do you think?

Only problem is some of them seem to be too un-specific, like more generalized or inner-dialogue/monologue type of things that would be hard to do as well. But there's so many I have only looked at a few.

Actually, after looking at some more series of Whitman, some of the 'un-specific' ones I like even more because they are charged with emotion and are very conducive for setting down to music. For example take a look at a piece of this poem:

DESPAIRING cries float ceaselessly toward me, day and night,
The sad voice of Death—the call of my nearest lover, putting forth, alarmed,
uncertain,
This sea I am quickly to sail, come tell me,
Come tell me where I am speeding—tell me my destination.


This seems to me very suitable for music. You can attempt to express this pain and tumultuous emotions and grief in the music whereas something that goes along a story line and has people talking/dialogue seems to me more difficult and not fully possible on piano alone (without voice to quote some of the dialogue).

p.s. check the series "Despairing Cries" for emotionally potent poems and "Leaves of Grass" for its sheer breadth selection (over 60 poems).

RA, you're the man! couldn't believe i just left for a few seconds, you've already posted ton of stuff here!

actually i think it's possible to compose some impressionist works with all those poems, and you don't really need to create a story by following exact words but images. however i don't know i can write anything like that, and even if i try it'd be pretty crappy. i more lean on doing something little classical or romantic or at least follow a structure of some sort, which would be easier for me to do.

Whatever we write, is it suppose to just reflect the imagary of the poem or is the music suppose to coincide with the words in each line or either or? Well, it doesn't matter to me what we go with on poetry or whatever, I'll work around whatever is decided on. I might make an attempt at it, someone could always "edit" whatever I came up with as they saw fit. I'd have to try to scan it to Fiesta F. I have a hard time understanding most of the poems in either of you guys' suggestions but I'll make do with anything. Oddly enough, the only one that "inspired" me out of either suggestion was "A Patch of Old Snow" by Frost. So let me know what the conclusion is on what we're going with.

Everyone could just choose their own poem from any source and the guideline could be it has to do with a season like summer, winter, fall, spring. Or any poem as long as it had to with one particular season. Like all winter poems. Or any poem as long as it had to do with one theme. It really makes no difference to me. As I said just pick something and I'll figure something out the best I can. Maybe one of you could write a short little example based on part of one of the poems to give us an idea to go by.

signa,
I hope you try to do something. I'm probably in the same boat as you. I haven't tried to write anything for quite a while so I'm a little rusty and before I wrote just for a hobby. It would be a good way to get back into it.

well guys I just posted in the pianist corner to get some more people in here to get feedback then we can vote on a set of poems or whatever the course we take though I do like your idea sarabande as well, that if this doesn't work out we can simply choose a common "Theme" and then all find our own poems that fit that theme. For example you used seasons as a theme but it can be anything like emotions or whatnot and then everyone finds a piece of literature or art that describes that theme and uses it to represent it with music etc. Let's just wait a little bit and see first if the cavalry comes in, hopefully a lot of others will join up after we spread the word

p.s. in answer to what you said you should all definitely try to write something, I myself or and/or others will probably be able to help you not only if you get stuck but maybe editing some parts and making your harmony a lil better etc.

I wasn't set on seasons for a "theme" but just had it on the brain after reading some of Frost's poems referring to birds, snow, trees, flowers, etc. By the way Requiem, do your avatars represent you in any way? Your new avatar makes me think of you as a little more aged that your previous avatar.

haha well the old one was one of the ones available here, it was henry the VIII who I kind of admired because he was a king, a sportsman, a patron of the arts, a painter, writer of many poems, and a composer too (though not that great lol) and his zodiac sign's a cancer like me, so I guess we're similar lol.

As for this new one it's of Johannes Brahms who is probably my favorite composer, I wanted to get a younger picture of him because I'm only 23 but this is the best one I found all the rest got too squished up when you put them as avatars, but I think I kind of look like him too a little bit from his early years, at least a few people have mentioned it so that's probably what I'll look like in my bearded 50's and 60's ..

i will write something for sure, and am going to work out some themes (got a few ideas) and then see what to make of from there. the tough part is to create something more than just melody lines (i like music with melodies btw) and find building blocks...

I'll take a look at the poems of Mr. Frost and see what I think. (He is one of my absolute favorite poets, so I think I might enjoy them, regardless of dialogue...I'll just make up my own background information...but we'll see. )

Storytelling is something I'm very good at...though mostly with words. I cannot draw, sadly, nor can I sing, and I'm not a very good composer. I come up with melodies easily enough...but all the little intricacies of the rest of the score elude me. I do, however, write short stories, poetry, novels, etc. so I'm decent enough with words to offer suggestions, or even parallel poems if anybody gets a little troubled by Mr. Frost.

(Look at it this way...you help me with composing, I'll help you with poetry. )

Well, I probably won't get the chance tonight...it's already 3am...but we'll see.

Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback! It seems so far we've got four participants. That's really awesome but I hope we can get more, the more the merrier...

I appreciate your avid searches of other sources for subject matter and they're all great ideas and very conducive to music writing, but to save time and confusion I'd rather stick to the Frost material. The Frost has got some great themes, moods, and imagery, and unless any of you really have a problem with setting these poems to music then we'll use the Frost. It doesn't have to be a literal representation of the poem, just a general mood or impression is enough to write a piece. Again, you're totally free to interpret however you want and may write in whatever manner you choose, so long as the piece follows the simple guidelines stated above.

As for reservations that may arise because from a perceived lack of compositional ability, my main reason for starting this project is to create an environment whereby composers may grow through interaction with other composers. Skill-level is not a factor in this project, there will be some more advanced and others less advanced than you. In order to become better in composition, one needs to compose, and in doing it here I'm hoping you'll receive lots of support and constructive feedback so that composing will come easier and be of better quality.

Thanks for your support and get crackin!

F. Figaro,
I know you said we should start a thread to "claim" our poem but I hate to start a new thread until everyone's for certain we're using Frost's "Mountain Interval". I have some ideas already for Frost's "A Patch of Old Snow"[/b] (I know it's kind of quirky out of all the poems to choose from that one would click with me.) I'd like to "claim" that poem if we go with the Frost work, otherwise it is perfectly fine to go another route other than Frost also. I won't start a separate thread until everyone decides for sure. I like the ideas I came up with so may write it out for fun even if we go with something else for a collaberative project.

Thanks for the offer with the poetry help for everyone Derulux. I may need help deciphering a poem depending on what we go with.

No problem! I may need help learning how to compose!

I've no problems picking any poems...like I said, writing/literature is something I'm good at. It's my composing ability that will hinder me. (Maybe we should work in teams? :p ) I'll tell you what, let me look at the Frost poems now...I'll decide tonight.

oops! F. Figaro, I think we both posted at the same time and yours beat my post by a minute. I wouldn't think anyone else would choose that particular Frost poem anyway. I'll go ahead and "stake my claim" by starting a thread later tomorrow if I don't hear any different.

Oops! I better get to sleep. I posted this without my message. Derulux, If you have the creative ability to write literature and play the piano, you should have no trouble writing some creative compositions.

YES! I thought that this specific selection included "The Road Not Taken"! Ah, that I was right...I don't even need to read the poems...many of them I know very well. I vote for them.

I'll select a poem after several other people have made their choice, unless one speaks to me particularly musically. (I've written quite a bit on some of them...even my own poem similar to "The Road Not Taken"...but never heard "music" out of them before. This will be a new endeavor for me to try...a new interpretation of words that I have rarely tried to express. )

*laughs* Yes, I'll be going to sleep soon, too. It's late in the early morning and I need some sleep before the sun gets up. (He never lets me sleep.) :p As for composing...it's not that I lack the creativity...it's more that I lack the knowledge of what to do with the creative things that "pop up" in my head. Perhaps here is a better analogy: I know the stories, but not a way to write them down and get them out from my head. So, I fumble with things until something sounds "appropriate", but is never exactly what I have heard in my head...because sometimes I don't even know how to convey what I hear, but that I know I have heard it, and that drives me nuts.

Good night! I can't wait to see what you do with that little piece! (It is often but a few words that gives us the inspiration to go on and on...to continue the story where we see it going long after another has stopped looking. )

Fiesta Figaro,

Whereas everyone else seems concerned by the source for inspiration, I've got a question about results. You mentioned that you'd like to have a score file posted as well as an audio file. Unfortunately, I do not have the money to dedicate to this project to purchase something like Finale. If a score is expected and everyone else is supplying one, I'll happily sit on the sidelines and enjoy your creations.

I also do not have the facilities for a decent recording of my Kawai grand, so the audio would have to be from my rather inexpensive synthesizer. I'm curious to know what kind of recordings everyone else will be supplying.

-Hugo

hugo, maybe you can just use Finale Notepad (free version downloadable at Finale site), which you can write something not too complicated with because of its limitation.

signa,
I've used that, reluctantly, in other situations. It takes quite a while to do so and is very frustrating, particularly when you have a midi file with all the data in it already.
I'm really just asking if this is going to be an expectation.
-Hugo

i think you could just submit a .mus file to someone who has a full version of Finale to get it converted to .pdf and .mid files. Finale (full version) should have importing capacity to turn you .mid file to .mus file so that you could edit it. but someone has to do it for you, and i wish i could if i have one. since i haven't been too serious about composing, i didn't bother to buy Finale sort of software. there're also some less version of such, like printMusic or something which is cheaper to get.

now i am thinking about buying a Finale academic version:
http://www.bizrate.com/buy/superfind__cat_id--1,keyword--finale,lp--1,mkt_id--11607634,sfsk--0.html

Hugo,

I don't have any composing software (as per my thread in this forum, I'm currently researching what to go with, and waiting for the money, "sigh"). Also, I don't have a way to record right now. I am going to write mine by hand on score paper and scan it to F. Figaro if I can. He said on his posts we could scan a copy of our score to him. I saw on the Pianist Corner Forum that someone posted a copy of a score they were trying to learn right onto the forum. I was wondering if I could set up an attachment and put my hand-written score directly on a post. I'd need the directions from someone.

For this particular project, I wouldn't be able to get it on the forum in a timely manner if I first had to figure out how to use the free software or hook up recording devices. Perhaps I can if I post any future projects.

Maybe we need a thread on options for recording and one on options for notating whereby each was listed under one thread. Would anyone be interested in such a thread? I would find it very useful.

I have similar issues with Finale...namely the damned cost of it. Here's what I do: I got the free shareware version of it (the "trial version" off their website) and then I "Print Screen" and paste each page into Microsoft Paint. I imagine if you had Adobe Acrobat (the full program), you could make .pdf's out of them, too.

As for the recording...I have absolutely no way to record it, so it'd either be the recording out of Finale, someone else would have to play it, or you'd have to wait a few weeks until I can reserve some equipment and a friend to help me do it down in our Main Bldg.

You can download (for free) a trial version of the full Finale. It still has some limitations, but it's way better than Notepad.

Sounds like an interesting project. I may want to participate in this. I have Frost's collected works at home and a good amount of Whitman, so when I get back from vacation I'll take a look through some of them and see if anything grabs me. If so, I'll let you know. Unfortunately, my version of Finale blew up on me and I haven't been able to get it re-installed as the disks also went south on me... Worst case I can probably upload a PDF of a handwritten score - my notation tends to be decent, so hopefully that could suffice.

After reflection, I think I'll step aside on this one. I don't have the tools for classical collaboration. Scores aren't something often exchanged in the other genres I write in, so I'm simply not prepared to participate.

Have fun; it'll be interesting to see the results.

Yup...I have Frost's collected works sitting on my shelf between Keats' collected works and on the other side...*pause*...crap...I think it might be Steinbeck's "East of Eden", but I'm not sure. Unless I separated by poetry v time period, in which case it's probably either Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales" (in Middle English) or Goethe's "Faust" (translated to English, of course).

But be careful, the thread creator limited the poem selection to a select group of 26 poems (I think it's 26, anyway).

I'm curious, hugo...what genres do you write in? (And you don't have to post the score...only if you can. A recording will do just fine.) Would you happen to write a lead sheet? If so, that's perfectly fine for me!

I'm waiting for people to start selecting poems...I have a feeling of which one I'm going to go with, but I'd rather let everyone else choose first. (Just don't leave me with one of the long "dialogue" ones...that would be terribly difficult! :p )

well guys after reviewing the Frost a little more I found many more suitable ones and so I agree we should just use the Frost since everyone seems to be in resounding agreement of their preference for Frost.

So I vote Frost but I'll post later about staking my claim on a particular poem because I can't decide between a couple that I like at the moment.

Hey all, any form of recording and/or score file will suffice so long as you guys are composing. The audio file may be an mp3 or midi, the score file may be hand-written or polished off in Finale. If all you can provide is one or the other that's fine. Something to keep in mind with the score file is it should preferrably be in the form of a graphic file or .pdf so that one doesn't need a program like Finale to read it. If you can't provide a score of what you're working on, that's perfectly fine.

On a side note, I have Finale and any if any of you need anything done on it you may ask me.

i don't know if anyone noticed, but i am claiming the poem "Meeting and Passing" for my composition.

ok so far:

signa has: "Meeting and Passing"
sarabande has: "A Patch of Old Snow"

and I will go ahead and take:
"An Old Man's Winter Night" if nobody minds

Ooh, good poem Req! I can't wait to hear that one.

signa took a very nice sonnet, too... certainly an intimate one.

So far, I like the selections very much! I will refrain from chosing until I can get back to Philadelphia (New Years' Eve). I want to "tinker" before settling, so I'll probably choose in the first week of January...if that is all right with everyone else.

I've a mind for either "Out, out---" or "Brown's Descent, or the Willy-Nilly Slide"...not sure yet...but I really like those two.

(Of course, my favorite is "The Road Not Taken", but if I took it, I wouldn't exactly be following his advice... :p )

ahaha...very true about that road not taken. I must admit that's the obvious choice and is the center piece of this selection and my mouth watered at trying it but I like to do more esoteric things and the one I chose I've never read before so I figured I'd try it.

It would be interesting for the road not taken though to take it up with a theme A to represent one "road" then a theme B to represent a fork in the road and a new "road" however after the 2nd theme of B, the music would begin in the original key something that begins the same as theme A but instead it is a false reprise and suddenly shifts into a new tonality and key of C to show a last minute changing of mind and taking the new 'road not taken.' I thought that would be interesting to do that, and those are my thoughts for anyone picking that famous piece.

anyhoo, I haven't read those poems you mentioned yet but I'll check 'em out tomorrow they sound interesting.

Yeah, the whole group's interesting, but I'm trying to stay away from the longer ones.


And the "Road Not Taken" is a centerpiece of all poetry, not just of that selection. It's one of the masterpieces of all-time.

indeed.

OK, since it's fine for me to be not very good, I'll bite. I've plenty ideas, I've just never finished anything. Maybe now's a good time to change that.

For creating scores I have both finale notepad and a trial version of noteworthy composer. Noteworthy allows you to export as midi, which is useful. However, the trial version limits the number of saves (although there are ways to circumvent that) and the visual score itself can't be exported in any other form but the proprietary file format.

However there is a free noteworthy player (a paltry 522KB) at http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/player/ that can play back both noteworthy and midi files while showing notation.

From the site:

However, the player doesn't work on files created with the trial version (which I have)though it will convert midi to notation (with idiosyncracies such as choosing Gb when F# makes more sense).

Anyway, I might use noteworthy since I'm most familiar with it. If I do, the player is one free option for converting the midi to some kind of score. Or, you could download the trial version of the composer as well.

Now to choose a poem. I hope everyone who has chosen already created the thread to claim it.

I use noteworthy too, PM me and I might be able to help you make it more useful *wink*

So here's the story with who's taken what and which poems are still available:


The Road Not Taken [/b] -Arjen
Christmas Trees
An Old Man’s Winter Night [/b] -Requiem Aeternam
A Patch of Old Snow [/b] -sarabande
In the Home Stretch
The Telephone
Meeting and Passing [/b] -signa
Hyla Brook
The Oven Bird [/b] -Fiesta Figaro
Bond and Free [/b] -Allazart
Birches
Pea Brush
Putting in the Seed
A Time to Talk
The Cow in Apple Time
An Encounter
Range-finding
The Hill Wife [/b] -kcoul058 (House Fear), cyip086 (The Impulse)
The Bonfire
A Girl’s Garden
The Exposed Nest
“Out, Out—”
Brown’s Descent, or the Willy-nilly Slide
The Gum-gatherer
The Line-gang
The Vanishing Red
Snow
The Sound of the Trees

the road is indeed not yet taken LOL

What an interesting statement if it is not taken at all.

what can I say, it's prophetic work that portends its own destiny

I'll be taking "House Fear" from "The Hill Wife". I looked at pretty well all of the poems in the cycle, and while IMHO Frost may not have the most animated imagery in his particular style of poetry, it still does this project enough justice to be suitable enough.

I might have recommended some French poetry that had been translated to English, but since enough people have picked (and I found one I like too! and i'm really picky! ), this seems like it should work great!

I'll start my thread right away... expect my piece to be pretty morose.. just read the poem!

Unfortunately I would actually like to take that road, if you gentlemen won't mind. I'm not a skilled composer by any means but I'll do my best. I'll write it in Sibelius, I can send it as MIDI or graphical illustration, whatever is desired. I have some issues with internet during the week but should always be able to provide an update each weekend, at the very least.

Remember, I've just taken one of the poem's found in the "Hill Wife", so there's still other ones in there people can take! Be sure to edit the "whos taken what" post so people know the whole "Hill Wife" isn't taken by me!

Hey guys, I just wanted to clear up some things about the reviewing process. While it is preferred, you don't necessarily have to have show new material every week on your thread. There is no "due date" for your composition, and while it would be nice to "hear" progress on your work, any sort of conceptual progress will suffice. If at all possible, try to update us at least once a week on the progress of your piece.

Yes, I'd arrived at this conclusion myself. If I keep posting updates it will diminish the impact of the final piece. I know, as the composer one sometimes gets tired of his work and I wouldn't want my potential listeners to feel the same way before I'm even done.

So, I may post comments in my thread but won't post new music clips until it is finished to my satisfaction.

I really didn't want to post bits and pieces of mine either as it doesn't give the "full effect" that way. I can go ahead and provide some updates on how I'm doing though.

How is everyone doing on their compositions? I haven't heard any updates from anyone except for those few who already have recordings posted. Where are all of you? I haven't heard from any of you on the forum at all for quite a while. Is everyone still working on their compositions for this project behind the scenes? Can anyone provide an update to their threads or post on this thread just to say you're still working on it?

i haven't had time working on my piece since the last time i touched it. i got some organizational ideas though (thinking more towards a sonata/sonatina form) but to put everything into composition is going to take long time, since i have much piano practice to do especially now that i have a teacher. but i will try to find time to work on it.

Signa,

Your actually one of the few who has gotten a recording posted. You are a lot farther ahead than the rest of us!