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#1149663 - 04/10/06 11:36 PM Re: prodigy composer
Kam Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 184
Loc: Canada
Madmusic, those songs are really fantastic. He certainly has some (not some, a lot of) talent and melodic ears.

One question, is he intended to make those dissonance sounds? What style does he wants to play? (that's 2 questions..lol)

There are several areas I'd suggest he to work on:

(1) Harmonization
As you said he just started composing, the first thing to do would be learning various ways to harmonize a melody. I can see he has great talent to use his ears to harmonize but he needs more training, try playing some sheetmusic from some artists, then u'll understand what i'm trying to say. For New Age music, try search for David Lanz, Richard Clayderman, Geroge Winston, and...etc. I think he is playing in New Age style.

(2) Composition format
Like AABBABA, he needs to work on that (for pop songs). The first 2 A can be repeated exactly but not for the last 2, or you will make your listener go away.

"When I Dream" is my favourite, it has more favourable sounds than the others, and the format is more in a appropriate way.

Little changes to the music can sound very differently.

Tell him that I will be supporting him
Ask me any questions here or thru my email.

If your bro could record (or write) them in midi (with dynamics and pedaling..etc if he is writing them), that would be great, since I can make those songs (midi format) sounds like he is playing a world class concert grand.

A sample of 33 seconds of the concert grand.
http://www3.telus.net/public/tommy17/NameTheTune1.mp3

Since I am a amatuer New Age composer my self, I feel enthused about your bro's interest in composing music.

Okay, here are the links to your bro's music.
If you have a couch, sit back and enjoy.

In the End
http://www3.telus.net/public/tommy17/Cameron_In_the_End.mp3
When I Dream
http://www3.telus.net/public/tommy17/Cameron_When_I_Dream.mp3
Rushing River
http://www3.telus.net/public/tommy17/Cameron_RushingRiver.mp3

In the upcoming recital, u will know how i am doing.
_________________________
"Bass creates motion" - David Lanz

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Piano & Music Acc. / Sheet Music


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#1149664 - 04/11/06 03:35 PM Re: prodigy composer
Johnny-Boy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 661
Loc: PA
He's definitely talented for his age. I'd be very interested in seeing how he's progressed in a couple years. I say a couple years because when he reaches 15-16 so much more will be expected of him.

As long as he likes what he's doing he will progress with or without formal instruction.

However, a good teacher can save him a lot of time - and keep him interested. Very few people can find the discipline needed to become an accomplished pianist or composer by themselves. Most need some kind of formal structure.

I would suggest the next step to take would be finding the perfect teacher. One that can teach piano fundamentals as well as composition – and expose him to a lot of well structured music.

Best, John ;\)
_________________________
Stop analyzing; just compose the damn thing!

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#1149665 - 04/11/06 04:34 PM Re: prodigy composer
Kam Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 184
Loc: Canada
Ya, he needs a teacher who teaches playing piano by ear
_________________________
"Bass creates motion" - David Lanz

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#1149666 - 04/11/06 09:11 PM Re: prodigy composer
madmusic Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 11
Loc: Utah
Thanks KAM!

Yeah, I think he needs a better teacher too. He is just going to some lady down the street (She was my teacher. She is good, but is out of the country half of the year on random adventures.)

Imagine having a 13 year old brother who's main purpose in life is to conquer every video game out there and play basketball in between. He was going to quit piano after learning some church hymns. Then I came home from college and my mom told me, "Cameron wrote a song." I thought, "Oh, this should be cute." But was surprized when I heard songs of this caliber. I don't even think those three songs are his best. They were just ones he chose.

He definately meant for the dissonance (although he doesn't even know that word. It's true. He just asked me, "what is that?"). He told me that one of his favorite things to do is throw a chord in that you're not expecting. He is influenced by Lanz (because of growing up hearing me play him) and John Schmitt.

So my next step is to find him a great piano teacher. First off, the one he has doesn't even like new age. She strongly discouraged me from playing it. She also doesn't do anything to encourage his compositions (which infuriates me). I would be willing to teach him, but I already have a full-time job and, to be honest, I'm not that great.

Seriously, thank you for your support and I will contact you if Cameron has any questions.

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#1149667 - 04/11/06 11:18 PM Re: prodigy composer
Kam Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 184
Loc: Canada
Better find a teacher who teaches both music composition and piano playing.

BTW, are u talking about David Lanz?
_________________________
"Bass creates motion" - David Lanz

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#1149668 - 04/16/06 09:19 PM Re: prodigy composer
Iason Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/22/04
Posts: 17
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Does he need to learn composition? Would it hurt? From what I have learned of composition it has greatly influenced me. But some of the greatest new age artists like Yanni, have not learned much of it. Neither have either of my brothers who write great music.

I personally am a knowledge lover. I am studying as much theory and harmony as I can. So far my greatest piece has been a pain staking mix of balancing two keys between each other and resolving on one or the other.

It was a game to me to see If I could do it and still have some tonality. I got to go but I'll post more of my thoughts later. Cause I love to learn more.
_________________________

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#1149669 - 04/17/06 11:55 AM Re: prodigy composer
lol_nl Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 918
Loc: Ede, Netherlands
Don't push him too hard to learn scales etc.!

First leave him for a while, so he can develop his own style of writing and composing. I doubt whether it's a good idea to let him learn theory. He'd be influenced by others too much. First he should develop on his own. When he is ready, let him play other material, from other composers, and practise some technique (I personally don't recomend Hanon), and let him listen to different types of music. Find a good composition teacher for him.

And btw, you can host recordings at www.savefile.com
_________________________
Yiteng

"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is never enough for music."
-Sergei Rachmaninoff.

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#1149670 - 04/17/06 11:57 AM Re: prodigy composer
lol_nl Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 918
Loc: Ede, Netherlands
And I forgot to add, let him post and write here on him own! Why not? Just to know him better \:\) .
_________________________
Yiteng

"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is never enough for music."
-Sergei Rachmaninoff.

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#1149671 - 04/17/06 10:22 PM Re: prodigy composer
musicwizard0 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 4
Ashley, I hope I'm answering the right post. About your brother, I am a composer and the most important thing you can do is listen to his heart. You said he didn't like to practice until he started composing; look at Yanni--he is a self taught composer and did not want to take lessons because he felt it might confuse him and what he wrote; your brother needs to want lessons and finding the right teacher is soooo important. Most of them out there won't know what to do with him but they won't tell you that. I have 7 years of lessons, couldn't tell you how many different teachers I had, but only one! recognized my ability and desires and helped me develop the skills I needed. The rest I've learned on my own. I wrote my first song at age 11. I feel like he is good from what you say and I don't think I would jump to placing his songs on this site for others to hear. Get him in some concerts; check for local music guilds and join. 13 years old is old enough to be a phenomenal composer. Ask him what HE NEEDS to go forward. The majority of the answers you've received here have no clue about what it is to be a composer or what a composer needs.

Awsome wishes, Robyn

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#1149672 - 04/17/06 10:50 PM Re: prodigy composer
madmusic Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 11
Loc: Utah
Hi I'm Cameron the composer guy that my sister Ashley has been telling you about. I was wondering how you guys compose? I compose by ear.
I've been trying to discover some cool chord progressions. I really like i,v,vi,iv and i,iv,vi,v and there is this really long one i,v,ii,vi,iv,i,ii,i. I have others,but it would kind of get boring. What are some cool chord proggressions you people like to use because they're what make the song sort of. That and the melody. Thanks for the advice a lot.

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#1149673 - 04/17/06 11:10 PM Re: prodigy composer
madcomposer Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1
Loc: UT
Hi this is Cameron again. I messed up on those chord proggressions. Let me do them again I V vi IV and I IV vi V and the really long one I V ii vi IV I ii I. While were at it lets do some minor ones i VI VII VI and i VII VI VII, but most of you people probably know that one from the titanic. I'm not sure how you write it. Anyways I don't want to bore you with those cord proggressions so I'll stop.

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#1149674 - 04/18/06 12:15 AM Re: prodigy composer
Iason Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/22/04
Posts: 17
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Try ( Opening Cadence) I, V 6, vii-, I 6/4, V7, V 6/vi, vi, IV 6, V, (Closing Cadence) IV, iii 6, V 6/V, V, vi 7, I+, IV 6/4, V 6/4, I. (Double the tonic at the end).

The Chord Progressions
_________________________

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#1149675 - 04/18/06 01:58 AM Re: prodigy composer
Iason Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/22/04
Posts: 17
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Here's a simple Piece I just made to match the chord progressions.

Progression Melody as an example
_________________________

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#1149676 - 04/20/06 12:39 PM Re: prodigy composer
Noah Frere Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Knoxville, TN
well said ted.
_________________________
Noah Frere
www.knowapiano.com
Knoxville, TN

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#1149677 - 04/20/06 01:13 PM Re: prodigy composer
Noah Frere Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Knoxville, TN
the links for telus wouldnt load on my mac. is there some way i could hear this music?
_________________________
Noah Frere
www.knowapiano.com
Knoxville, TN

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#1149678 - 04/20/06 10:26 PM Re: prodigy composer
madmusic Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 11
Loc: Utah
Thanks for the chord progression, Iason, but unfortunately, my brother doesn't know half of what you wrote (I don't even know all of it, but I've never really learned theory that much). I'll look up some of the notation that I don't remember.

We are uneducated.

Anyway, just to keep you updated, we have found a new piano teacher for my brother. Some composer guy or something. Anyway, I think it will be better than his current teacher. I had to almost beg her to let him play one of his compositions in his recital next week.

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#1149679 - 04/20/06 11:11 PM Re: prodigy composer
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
madmusic,

You may want to consider helping your brother to copywrite his songs, before he publishes them here or anywhere else.

Musicians are famous/notorious for "learning" from each other. If your brother can write melodies, it's imperative that his work be copywrited. The forms are available online: http://www.copyright.gov/forms/

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#1149680 - 04/20/06 11:17 PM Re: prodigy composer
Johnny-Boy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 661
Loc: PA
One last word…

If your brother truly loves composing he'll find a way to make his mark in the music industry - with or without a teacher.

Danny Elfman was self taught, and what a mark he’s made.

The best thing he can do is compose each and everyday. It should become as natural and essential as eating and sleeping.

Best, John
_________________________
Stop analyzing; just compose the damn thing!

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#1149681 - 04/20/06 11:22 PM Re: prodigy composer
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
madmusic,

Artists tend to create in bursts. For now, extensive study will just force your brother to use the side of his brain which is useful for applying rules, but of no help at all for creating.

Please monitor your brother's lessons. If the new teacher loads him up with so much work that he suddenly stops creating, immediately back off and let him go with his creative impulses. He can manipulate/formalize/make more sophisticated at any time.

For now it might be more helpful to get him a small tape recorder which he can place next to his bed. Much of creation actually comes up out of the subconscious. It'd be a good idea for this young man to be able to hum whatever occurs to him, before it's lost.

It'd be nice if one could simply bounce back and fourth from logic to creation without losing anything. My experience, tho limited, says that that doesn't work, and that working with the logical side of the brain will block out creation---even causing him to forget what popped up out his subconscious. Please encourage him to hum everything that occurs to him into his tape recorder.

And please monitor those lessons. He's on a creative roll. The time for extensive study is when he's temporarily out of inspiration.

Pls chk ur PM's.

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#1149682 - 04/20/06 11:36 PM Re: prodigy composer
Johnny-Boy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 661
Loc: PA
FogVilleLad is right on the money. Composing comes from the heart (so to speak). It can't be taught.

However, a good teacher can show your brother methods of developing his music. But then again, if he keeps writing he'll figure it out on his own in due course anyway.

What’s more important is to keep his enthusiasm and originality intact.

Best, John
_________________________
Stop analyzing; just compose the damn thing!

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#1149683 - 04/20/06 11:50 PM Re: prodigy composer
Iason Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/22/04
Posts: 17
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
I notated the chord Porgressions for you.

Notated Chord Progressions here

I'm not very educated myself, I just have some obsessions.
_________________________

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