Just wondered. I am usually at the piano but sometimes sing melodies too. Apparently Bach composed mainly on manuscript paper and then tried it out at the keyboard....

I start at the piano, generally. Normally I'll plink out a melody line that ends up being either a verse or a chorus. Then I'll try out a few chords for harmony. After all that, I end up with the tune running in the back of my mind while I'm doing other things, in essence tweaking it a bit before I get back to the piano to play. Occasionally I'll pull out a reference book for new thoughts about a direction to go in.

The only time I compose at a computer is when I'm messing around with Band-in-a-Box, looking at styles. If I end up with something interesting I add in a melody by playing along on the piano or synth.

I write mostly at an instrument, (Not neccesarily a piano)and write it out on the computer later if I think that it has potential.

When I have written music, it usually starts in my brain. I have even written songs a few times in a dream--- as soon as I woke up I'd write down as quickly as possible the music I had dreamed of myself writing (in such dreams I actually see myself writing the song and working on it.)*


I have come up with melodies while playing around on my piano.

But for most of the music I have written it has started in my head. Then I'd write stuff down and then make my way to the piano or a guitar (depends on the song) and work out the chord progressions and voicings, melody and other musical "ideas".

The best stuff I have written has come with little effort it seems.

I don't have any computer programs yet for making sheet music; I often wish I did. I do it the old fashioned way, by hand.

Maybe when I find my stage piano I will get some things for it for composing new material.

A bit off topic: I once dreamed I came to one of the facilities with a horrid piano I must play on in front of people.... and found a brand new full size white grand piano. I don't know what that dreams means in real life if anything... but it would be cool if that sort of dream came true.
But why on earth did dream it was white? In real life I prefer pianos of darker brown,reds, blacks, and occasionally blondes.

This is how I work as well. It may be a melodic idea or a rhythm or whatever, but most of my pieces started as small ideas in my mind. I'll translate these to paper and get to work. I'll harmonise at the piano (or some keyboard), but I usually try to hear a bass line to go with the melody in my head, then work from there. This gets me to implied harmony, but I'll also try to hear funky notes in my head as well and throw them in. What sometimes happens is in writing counterpoint much of the harmony grows out of the structure, it either works or it doesn't. If it works then adding additional notes to flesh out the harmony is usually pretty easy. Composing counterpoint in your head is real brain exercise, 2 part is easy, 3 part is hard, 4 part is at the keyboard.

It seems that when I get more complete ideas it's hard to get past a couple of harmonizations, whereas with little ideas I just start spinning development. All of which would suggest that I could take my bigger ideas and cut them into small pieces. Hhmmmm why didn't I think of that before? Thanks for this thread.

to me, melody usually comes first in head, or even on piano, and then reenforced on piano, and then i'd go to computer to explore it further if i'm in the mood of composing. but haven't done this for a while... too busy with everything else.

I think you'll find my approach is similar to the others mentioned.

Mostly, I'll improvise on a melody while recording. After playing for a few minutes, I'll play it back and listen critically, deciding what I like and don't like. Then I play a more refined version, perhaps working in other musical ideas. Once the song is in my head, I find that it helps to sleep on it, and come back to it later. I might listen to it some more, come up with more ideas, and finally perform the "finished" work.

I do compose while sitting in front of the computer, but this is because I'm either 1) listening to a recording of a "finished" work as I write the score, or 2) scoring a piece that I heard playing in my head while commuting to/from work. I have to agree with the others in this forum that I get some good ideas while naturally "listening" to a work as it's being performed in my mind.

Anyone else have a song or two in their head that have yet to be written down? Kind of like a digital camera that still has pictures from last Christmas?

The idea usually starts in my mind...and then i sit at the piano or keyboard and express how i want the piece to feel..it would be nice to have a computer generated program but i don't.

I usually hear ideas in my head first. The most frustrating for me is then when I go to the keys, I can't "find" what I'm hearing . It usually comes out differently from what I "hear" from not being able to find the correct notes. I guess I need to improve my ear-training skill.

Write it on paper? Play your digital piano connected to your computer and the notes appear in notation.

I compose at the piano. So far, the main structures of all of my creations have been accidents. I like to goof around on the piano. You know, play with chords and stuff. Sometimes, the notes are hit just right, and the composer in me jumps at the opportunity to build on it. And that's how it starts.

Lately though, at night while lying in bed, I've been composing some interesting stuff in my head. But since I don't have a keyboard yet, I can't rush to the nearest set of keys and try it out (for I don't wish to be inquired by my family why I've disturbed their sleep at midnight). Unfortunately, I always forget the melody by morning. Shame.

I can't read music, so writing things down on paper would be quite awkward. I tried, once. Don't ask how.

Those compositions I have written out over the years have formed like crystals in my mind from an ongoing suspension of improvisation, sometimes over a long period of time. The act of writing notes out is a joyless chore for me and written notation, however complicated, is a poor approximation to what I play. This is especially so in the area of rhythm. Indeed, I do not believe it is possible to notate the sounds which move me most deeply in recent years. I can repeat them at the keyboard but not translate them into notation.

The question of whether this limitation is due to intrinsic difficulty or my own inability is largely irrelevant, as I am no longer prepared to spend an hour laboriously trying to notate something which lasts twenty seconds. In that time I could have recorded a CD full of new ideas.

If any of them set the world on fire enough for people to desire scores, a most unlikely outcome, then somebody with a good ear will have a very interesting task after I have pegged out.

Hum or sing the melody into a tape recorder, then you won't forget it by morning!

I compose at the piano, play around on the keyboard till I hear something I like. Problem is, I can hear *something* in just about *everything*....I have no want for ideas, but a person has to decide what they need most to spend their time on, composing or practising. AUGH. Wish I could spend ALL of my time composing, but I need to devote time to *playing* the piano, mastering the music, as well.

One of the music teachers I met with (when looking for a music teacher) told me she'd never heard of anyone composing this way.

Heh,heh, heh. I am not alone in this method, many of you do the same.

I did once DREAM an entire piece of music complete with all instrumentation, and it was a *lucid* dream - I knew I was dreaming and couldn't wait to wake up to remember the music...

course, after waking, I forgot the whole thing within a few minutes. Just as well, how on earth would I have gotten the music down on paper????

Jeanne W

Hi Jeanne,

Stravinsky once did exactly that, dreamed an entire piece of music, woke up and wrote it down. Now I suspect given that I'm talking about the "Octet for winds" that the writing down part took a long time (it's asignificant 2 movement work). I also suspect that the memory of the exact piece faded quickly, but the themes are very memorable and as a composer he would have been able to shorthand some of the developmental ideas and/or perhaps the overall structure. In any case the Octet for winds is a fabulous piece.

Listening to a wide range of music causes more musical ideas to just spring up in my mind. I think all the music listening jumbles together in my head like throwing a bunch of ideas and notes together into a big pot, mixing it up and coming out with something totally different and new. The more music I listen to, sing, study, play-back in my head, the more those ideas come up automatically in my mind. Entire ideas have just come to the forefront of my mind when I have been doing a great amount of listening.

It is when I have been listening to music a great deal that I've had a couple dreams of the entire work being played out. I don't even know how to write orchestra music and once dreamed I wrote a piece and was an audience member watching the entire thing performed. Once I couldn't remember it. Once I remembered a few themes and motives as Steve C. mentioned. If you wake up in the middle of the night keep a tape recorder by your bed, get up and sing as many of the parts as you can into the tape. You might remember some when you wake up that way.

Steve, Sarabande:

Just think of all of that music thats floating around somewhere in the ETHERNET.



Jeanne W

Question for those of you who hear music in your head...

Tchaikovsky was haunted, or should I say, hounded, by the music that he heard in his head. Do any of you who compose this way feel this way?

I bet those of us who compose at the piano could do a few exercises and compose "in our heads" as well. But after reading about Tchaikovsky, I'm thankful this isn't my way. I can't imagine having music running through my head at various times of the day to write down. Yes, it would probably drive me INSANE cause 1) Not having perfect pitch, I'd have to be at a piano to figure out the notes to write the music down, and 2) it would be EIMINENTLY DISTRACTING!!!

Maybe we can - all of us together - dredge up a ton of money, quit our day jobs, and build ourselves a music camp/commune/whatever you want to call it - to live in...



Jeanne W

Hi Jeanne,

Yes, it can be distracting, especially at 11:30 PM when I'd rather be getting into bed. Fortunately, I do not compose full pieces in my head, but the thematic ideas that pop into it are sometimes inspired. So when I have something going in my head that I really enjoy I will endeavor to write it down. I'm usually not concerned about getting the exact notes right (I don't have perfect pitch either) but the relative pitches is crucial as is rhythm.

Some analysis is necessary before I can write it down accurately. I need to figure out what note is the tonic and where my theme starts in relation to it. I need to know if I'm thinking duple, triple or compound meter. If I can get to a piano I'll confirm what I write against the instrument. The good news is when I'm satisfied that I've written it down as best I can, I can then sleep.

OTOH, if the idea beating at my brain isn't that great I can always replace it with something that I've already written. If my mind is plagued with anything it's just that, pieces I've already written. They don't usually keep me awake unless I'm puzzling further development.

most of the time I compose....its when im practicing...I start messin around on my piano and just start makin up a piece....then as soon as I got it stuck in my head I run over to my computer which has my keyboard hooked up to it.....I play my composition on my keyboard while my computer records it......then I save it for when I really work on it and add more....or if I have time ill sit there figuring out more.

My Music Reflects Me....and my mood.......[Monica]

I improvise on the piano. I'll just sit down and tinker until I like what I hear. If I really like something, I'll jot the general idea down. Then I go back to my room (because I don't have a piano there) and tinker with it (usually in a 'free' shareware version of Finale). Then I save screenshots of the sheet music (because the shareware version doesn't let you save Finale work). And then I re-size them and print them.

Sometimes I sit down and just start writing in Finale, but the program lets you hear what you're writing anyway, so it's not as bad as having to hear every note in your head. There are very few things I've written without hearing them at all, and only one of them resembled anything close to a decent melody.

I'm working on playing a Fantasy I wrote using Finale, but it's very difficult. Normally, I can improvise-play what I write, but lately I've been working with more and more difficult pieces, and this one is one of the front-runners. It's not musically challenging at all, but it is difficult to get your hands going at speed.

Most of my compositions are emotions set to music. Some of the titles, "First Love", "After You Left", "Showers of Love", "Prelude to Sorrow".

Lacking either positive inspiration or a need to release negative feelings, I find myself unable to really compose anything. I still come up with various short themes that I keep in the back of my head and when the inspiration is there (one way or the other) I pick the theme that fits the emotions. Once started, things begin to really flow, probably because of the need to release the emotions.

personally I compose strictly away from any aid such as piano or computer program etc with a pencil and paper. This is the way all the masters (Bach, Mozart, Beethoven) not only composed but also taught their students to compose. The reason I do it deliberately is to train my mind to think freely in musical thoughts without having to have any point of reference. I usually will write a page or two, or if the music is very difficult and contrapuntal sometimes only a few bars and then will check them out on the piano or plug them into a notation software just to make sure the voice leading is right and all. If you do this often and practice you really won't need a piano or software anymore because your relative pitch and solfegge skills will be pretty good like mine are finally starting to become after a few years of doing this, and so even though I don't have perfect pitch, I don't need it because when I hear something in my head I can write it down on any key I want and transpose it to any other key in my mind and write the proper harmony.

This is supposedly how formal training is supposed to be done to this day in composition but unfortunately most students don't take advantage of it and lazily end up going back to their computer software. A few composition major friends I have have become too dependant on it to the point that they couldn't write a lick for the life of them without their computer and the major flaw of that is they no longer truly tap into their deep creativity because that can only be reached in solitude and tranquility when you meditate into the recesses of your mind for the truly inspired ideas. They merely sit at the computer clunking away at random notes to see which harmonies sound good and the result consequently ends up being, although technically strong sometimes, uninspired.

I understand though for those of you who know little or no music theory, you have no choice but to use a piano or computer because without theory you can't possibly compose in your head or on paper, but for those of you who do, I urge you to practice some composing away from the keyboards.

At the piano, on paper, at the computer. RARELY do i ever hear something in my head and have it come out exactly as it should sound. If that ever happens its maybe 3-4 meausres, not an entire symphony like mozart.

Requiem A.: Thanks for the interesting post. Your post gave me confidence to give your idea a try. I get annoyed trying to go between paper and piano. It is slow and cumbersome and it makes me "lose" some of my original ideas. I'm going to try your suggestions. I need to keep up on my theory knowledge anyway (it's becoming a losing battle of "if you don't use it, you lose it").

no problem for example, check this composition I just posted in the pianist forum http://savefile.com/files/5574250, it's something I just started today so it's not that much yet about a minute of music, it's a piano concerto in the style of Mozart. I composed this entire segment of music without using any piano or computer except just once or twice to check the bass line in a tricky section.

The reason this is possible, and it is actually quite simple if you study your theory well, is look at it this way: in this particular piece it's really just a mundane SATB (soprano, alto, tenor, bass) 4 part harmony. That is the basis of all theory/harmony training in school or anywhere, because I have a violin 1, violin 2, viola and cello parts. Then, the piece so far has no complicated harmony at all, it's mostly tonic dominant, or the I and V degrees and that's it, that's like having C-E-G chord in the c major scale and then G-B-D over and over again. Ofcourse I spruced it up a little bit with the woodwinds which makes it sound more complicated than it is but it's all really simply and Mozart for one loved that simplicity. And so because of that, and with the knowledge of counterpoint and 4 part writing that I have, I was able to easily write this without any use of computers. Although ofcourse later on when I get to the development and things get a little more contrapuntal I'll probably be going to my piano or computer more often, even Mozart who famously wrote everything out in his head, worked out the difficult counterpoint of his later symphonies (jupiter) on paper BEFORE setting it down on the manuscript because even he wasn't capable of doing that many calculations in his mind.
But like I said, my suggestion for anybody is to study 4 part harmony which is the most fundamental form of harmony and theory, and learn good voice leading with that and work out all of your exercises as much as possible on paper alone and you will see really good results, soon things will begin to make a lot of sense and even pieces with 10 voices/instruments will look simple because you will see that most of the instruments are doubled and/or are just extensions of that fundamental 4 part harmony which you already know.

Yeah, it would be nice to know all of the above. I, however, know none of it and just "shoot from the ear". So, I rely heavily on sound. I know enough about chord structure, though, to know roughly how something will sound without hearing it, and once I see it on paper, I can "hear" it in my head, but the transition between the two usually requires tinkering for me.

I also "shoot from the ear" at the piano, but I suspect that what makes it possible to harmonize something in short order is indeed the subconscious integration of 4-part (and extended) harmony concepts into the player/composer's brain ... the ability to get close to what you hear and not simply "plunk out notes" until you hit the right one ...it's been a long time since I did any written harmony exercises (a music theory elective in college about, oh, twenty plus years ago) but I'm sure some of that skill became embedded.

I think it would be wonderfully liberating to be able to compose -- perhaps not to completion, but to a first approximation -- away from the keyboard. It seems that such skills would only augment capabilities at the keyboard.

I hear music in my head all the time (at least when the alien radio transmissions don't interfere, hee-hee) and look forward to the day when I might be able to simply write it down rather than try to keep it going (mentally) until I can get to the keyboard ...

"Son of a b*tch...he stole my line." :p (Robin Williams)

Most of my compositions are just notated improvisations. This is what I do. I improvise a melody and develop it, and make a good classical piece. Then I try to "get the piece in my fingers" as best I can. Then, when I know the piece's form and structure inside and out, I notate it, usually by hand. This is how I composed most of my sonatas and concertos. If I am composing a larger piece, like a symphony or an opera, I don't bother learning it on the piano, because that instrument is too limited in the shadow of an orchestra. Then, I just notate it when I get the idea.

My compositions are improvisations and vice versa, all made at the piano. Some sound more "conventional" than others, with more or less clearly delineated "sections," and others are more "patchwork quilt" in form. I like to strike a balance between these two extremes. It is satisfying to hear something later in a piece of music that you heard earlier, even if it is just a vague reference to it.

I write several motifs while sitting at the piano, then try to string them together in the best sounding sequence. The beginning and ending are composed last. Finally, once the song is finished in my mind, I will put it down on paper. My hope is to save time through MIDI keyboard (which I am purchasing today!). My true goal is to one day be able to write a significant amount of music away from the piano. My composition instructor is teaching me how to do this.

It's amazing how differently each of us writes music.

I love this topic!

Teri

I start at the piano, and have my laptop right by me at the piano, I come up with something and jot it into PrintMusic. Then I eventually do more work on the Piano and then put it into Finale, so basically I believe I work from the Piano, then write my pieces on Computer