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#1151746 - 12/24/05 12:50 AM MIP - Meeting and passing
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
here is the poem i will be using:
----
Robert Frost (18741963). Mountain Interval. 1920.

7. Meeting and Passing

AS I went down the hill along the wall
There was a gate I had leaned at for the view
And had just turned from when I first saw you
As you came up the hill. We met. But all
We did that day was mingle great and small 5
Footprints in summer dust as if we drew
The figure of our being less than two
But more than one as yet. Your parasol

Pointed the decimal off with one deep thrust.
And all the time we talked you seemed to see 10
Something down there to smile at in the dust.
(Oh, it was without prejudice to me!)
Afterward I went past what you had passed
Before we met and you what I had passed.
----

i might put something down during this weekend. there're some themes i got, and plan to think of a structure and organize my ideas. i don't know yet if anything would work out ok, and have to see what happens...

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#1151747 - 12/24/05 01:19 AM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
alrighty then, that's a good start signa, pretty good poem too, I think what would help is if we all posted in each other's threads how we would approach that particular piece so with that in mind from my initial reading of this particular poem I would say I would perhaps attempt to express a sense of excitedness and/or urgency maybe with a syncopated type of up tempo rhythem/bassline or a unexpected jumps in the melody. Actually, I just reread it, and I haev a slightly different take though I'll leave what I wrote because it still pertains a little bit: I see he says now he was leaning on a gate for the 'view' from atop the hill when he spotted "her" (I assume it's a woman because she has a parasol which is like a small women's umbrella for the sun). So I would perhaps attempt initially in the music to express some sort of wonder or serenity of his 'view' atop this hill and THEN a sudden surprise, jilting of nerves, perhaps beating of the heart in excitement as he has now spotted this woman.

So after thinking about it some more, I would think about a possible 3 stage expression of the piece: the initial calm of the top of the hill 'view', the sudden raciness and butterflies of the stomach of meeting this stranger whom I assume he is immediately enamored with since he likens their footprints to be one of person, i.e. they are combined as in rapture. And then after the initial racing excitement or anxiety perhaps a more melodramatic-ish, syrupy romantic music to express them frollicking the day away together. Then I would consider a final sad parting turn at the end depending on whether I consider the end to be sad or not, however, in order to make a more fully balanced musical performance I would recap one of the earlier 'themes' or sections. For example, perhaps after all that day's excitement, at the end the 'calm' and serenity of the mountain top view once more returns because now after she is gone he is back to just himself again and perhaps either lonely or instead elated at having that wonderful memory of this magical day. So that in a sense it would end up being a ABA ternary form.

I hope my little analysis helps you to think of your own approach
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#1151748 - 12/24/05 01:29 AM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
RA, you're always insightful about anything! i definitely will think about what you suggested, and i don't yet have a plan for this.

when i read it, i thought about it as a meeting-crossing sort of thing, i.e. nothing actually happened and nothing will happen between the 2 chars. it strikes me exactly as for that reason, since in life we rarely met any type of match (not necessary as romance sort, but friendship, communication, intellectual, spiritual, etc.), so even for a short time, it's pleasing at least. it could be a tragedy too, but it's better to leave it unsaid...

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#1151749 - 12/24/05 01:45 AM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
yea I think I also see it as pretty much a chance encounter that sees the protagonists life return to normal after this one magical experience. In truth I find that in real life, at least my life, is replete with these types of things if only because I have a very fantasy based active imagination that always over plays things way too much, so even that proverbial sacred stolen glance with a pair of alluring eyes from across the packed subway car in my mind gets turned to on the spot into a mythical romance, the "what ifs??" of which my mind obsesses over and plays with for the rest of the day or longer depending on the magnetic power of the occasion. And so similarly I see that this encounter seemed to have a similar effect on the protagonist here because you can see how he's starting to imagine things already like their respective footprints in the dust being one and yet "more than one" it is evidence to me that his romantic mind is being carried away here with the powerful encounter and he's kind of like me. I don't fully understand the parts after that yet, namely when he says about you looking down, seeing 10 etc, but what I think it means is that he says she looked down and was smiling at something in the dust and saw '10.' It represents to me that they must have been talking/interacting and the lady is blushing and smiling looking down at times, being too abashed at times to keep his eye contact. It was without prejudice to him, meaning I guess that he's saying "it's ok!" or "it's fine with me!" that she's shy maybe?
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#1151750 - 12/24/05 03:04 AM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5067
Loc: Philadelphia
 Quote:
And then after the initial racing excitement or anxiety perhaps a more melodramatic-ish, syrupy romantic music to express them frollicking the day away together.
The sort of music you have described does not resonate well with "frolicking", which means "gaiety, merriment, playful antics, a carefree time". One who was frolicking would behave playfully and uninhibited...they would joke and/or tease...poke fun at each other...laugh a lot...that sort of thing. ;\)


I have to admit, I first thought of doing something extreme... playing at the ends of the keyboard and having the pitch meet in the middle, and then go their separate ways again...but I think there's a better way now.

I'd introduce a theme for the "guy"...probably similar to what Req describes. Then I'd introduce something for the "girl" (when the guy notices her). When they "meet", I'd have it come to some pause...a hesitation and prolongued climax. Then I would have the two themes for the guy and girl dance with each other, going here and there (either pitch or chord changes), one taking the lead, then the other...playing around, you know? But then, I would have it take on a slightly desperate sense of the "end", and then they would separate. We'd hear the girl "walk off", but stay with the guy this time. I'd recap his theme from the beginning, but now it would incorporate latent minor tones...an expression of sorrow at the parting...but it would also be changed. (Don't forget, now the guy is passing what the girl passed.... This is the trickiest part, I think...because you have to evoke the image of what the girl saw, but from the guy's perspective. If you nailed this, you'd have the piece. ;\) )

Well, just a quick two cents...nothing too thorough, I'm sorry to say. Hope it helps, or helps give shape to your own ideas. \:\)


And I don't know if you guys caught the "number" reference...what great symbolism! \:D But I'll let you interpret the poem whatever way you want, unless you get stuck and want my help from the literature side. ;\)
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#1151751 - 12/24/05 10:32 AM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Requiem Aeternam:
yea I think I also see it as pretty much a chance encounter that sees the protagonists life return to normal after this one magical experience. In truth I find that in real life, at least my life, is replete with these types of things if only because I have a very fantasy based active imagination that always over plays things way too much, so even that proverbial sacred stolen glance with a pair of alluring eyes from across the packed subway car in my mind gets turned to on the spot into a mythical romance, the "what ifs??" of which my mind obsesses over and plays with for the rest of the day or longer depending on the magnetic power of the occasion. And so similarly I see that this encounter seemed to have a similar effect on the protagonist here because you can see how he's starting to imagine things already like their respective footprints in the dust being one and yet "more than one" it is evidence to me that his romantic mind is being carried away here with the powerful encounter and he's kind of like me. I don't fully understand the parts after that yet, namely when he says about you looking down, seeing 10 etc, but what I think it means is that he says she looked down and was smiling at something in the dust and saw '10.' It represents to me that they must have been talking/interacting and the lady is blushing and smiling looking down at times, being too abashed at times to keep his eye contact. It was without prejudice to him, meaning I guess that he's saying "it's ok!" or "it's fine with me!" that she's shy maybe? [/b]
RA, you're very imaginative and especially, you're on composer's route, it becomes even more so. everyone does the same or similar things to a degree though, and i don't even want to dig into my 'painful' memories far back anymore. but it's the source of creativity, i guess, at least. many times, i imagine something but left it in dust without ever collecting it, besides i don't have that much artist's mind to constantly put inspiration into works...

i understand the whole poem, the 'look down' thing means she's having some other thoughts and started to think about leaving, even though she's still maintaining the conversation with the guy ('without prejudice'), which is why soon after the parting part gets in...

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#1151752 - 12/24/05 10:41 AM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
Derulux, you gave a very good description of it, and i have to see what to take like that. but i'm little hesitate to over play the romance theme (not that i don't like it), rather to make it a little incidental encounter - great time, fantastic conversation and yet something is not quite there so that everyone leaves afterwards without trace...

i have to think about it and let you all know what i am going to do...

here is the beginning:

F major theme with LH fast arpeggios to open with a view (the guy's). have to abandon the other theme i was thinking about initially, and need to find a better one instead (the girl's theme). i just want to complete at least the introduction part of this... stay tuned.

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#1151753 - 12/25/05 01:01 AM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
sorry, it's a G major opening. here is my take on this so far, as i played on my piano virtually all day and tried to get a 2nd theme matching the 1st.

it's a fast intro with G major theme played, which has a char of both view (mountain scene) and the char himself and then is repeated but turned into d minor (as i thought the poet got little moody or restless), and then the 2nd theme is introduced at the same key (pretty girl or old lady or someone in between?). haven't got too far from there yet, but i plan to do, as RA suggested, sort of ABA' form with the intro as A section.

currently i am trying to put the intro into Finale notepad, which really takes long time to do and will post at least .mus file when i finish. in case it doesn't work out well, i'll see if i can get another software.

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#1151754 - 12/25/05 04:49 AM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
Allazart Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 389
Sounds interesting. I look forward to hearing some of your work signa.

I find finale a bit slow to work with as well. Using the keyboard to change the note values and the mouse to actually enter the notes helps but the mouse gives too much freedom of movement over the staff. However, if you drag the mouse while entering a note it allows you to move it only vertically over the staff. Nontheless, entering the score into finale may be the last step for me.

May inspiration be with you. \:\)

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#1151755 - 12/25/05 05:11 AM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
Allazart Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 389
BTW, you mentioned other software.

There is noteworthy composer at http://www.noteworthysoftware.com The trial version of it is what I use.

Also, there is melody assistant at http://www.myriad-online.com/en/products/melody.htm

And Mozart at http://www.mozart.co.uk/

All are shareware and the trial versions have restrictions.

There is also Anvil studio at http://www.anvilstudio.com/ which is free but probably not the best for notation.

I've tried all at some point but for some reason I keep going back to noteworthy. That could be because it's the first one I used.

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#1151756 - 12/25/05 10:54 AM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
thanks, Allazart, for your comments and suggestions. indeed Finale is slow and i will check out noteworthy!

i changed a little of my intro, and i'd let 1st theme stay little harmonically ambiguous till the 2nd theme in d minor coming in. it seems the girl is too pretty and the guy is too poetic and romance overtone now is inevitable... so far it sounds not too bad as i play it on piano, but putting it into notes would take at least 1 day (if i'm not doing anything else).

i just ordered noteworthy and hope it'd make my life easier...

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#1151757 - 12/25/05 02:23 PM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
I use noteworthy because I've used it for a while now and I memorized all the keystrokes so I can put in notes super fast, all you do is press 1 for whole note, 2 for half, 3 for quarter, 4 for 8th, 5 for 16th etc, and so after you press a number you just move your arrow keys on the keyboard up or down on the staff to where you want the note then you press enter and the note goes on, then press backspace to delete it, press space to put a rest, press the period/dot button to add a dot to a note like dotted half note etc, it's all very easy, I once tried finale and sibelius and I couldn't even figure out how to put down a single note for god sake so I said screw this and ended up going back to noteworthy.
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#1151758 - 12/25/05 04:20 PM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
Allazart Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 389
 Quote:
Originally posted by Requiem Aeternam:
I once tried finale and sibelius and I couldn't even figure out how to put down a single note for god sake so I said screw this and ended up going back to noteworthy. [/b]
lol...exactly. \:D

Everything else just seemed so complicated. I never had the patience to try to master any of them.

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#1151759 - 12/25/05 05:57 PM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
thanks everyone for help! actually, i like Finale, although slow. at least it can play back instantly. but i will try to use noteworthy just for the sake of saving time now. with Finale, i haven't even put 1/3 of the intro in yet...

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#1151760 - 12/25/05 06:52 PM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Not sure what you mean signa but noteworthy plays back instantly too, after you enter some notes you just click "play" or press "f5" for the hotkey that will play your input back and when you want to save it to a midi go to file save as, and change it to midi and thats it
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#1151761 - 12/25/05 10:50 PM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
thanks for the help! i'm now using noteworthy and figuring something out along the way. i got most of my intro in, but am not too happy with bass line - arpeggios all the way as background, since my weakness is in harmonizing not with melody. but i will try to get the intro out to a midi later tonight and see if i can get some feedback first. the composition might sound strange to you, because it is unlike a normal procedure... we shall see.

here is the link to intro's midi:
http://www.savefile.com/files2.php?fid=7793717

i quickly filled in some bass harmonies without analyzing much for sake of getting this out first. i'm going to rework on this anyway, but just so you all get some idea about how this thing goes.

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#1151762 - 12/26/05 12:14 PM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
Allazart Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 389
Signa, for some reason I can't download your file. Then I tried one of my files hosted on savefile and discovered I couldn't get at it either.

I guess they're having difficulties at the moment. I'll try again later and I'll be sure to post when I get it.

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#1151763 - 12/26/05 12:43 PM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
i tried last night and it was downloaded ok. it's server problem, i guess.

btw, i need to reconfigure the bass part and change some figurations with proper progression. i haven't thought much about harmonic part of it while trying to work out melody lines and overall ideas, so that you'd hear some very messy bass. but i want to keep the same rhythm on bass to provide a background for the story flow (just an idea). i spent too much time these 2 days on this, and feel little sick of it now. i need to take a break and step back and think about how it should be...

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#1151764 - 12/26/05 02:25 PM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
Allazart Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 389
 Quote:

i spent too much time these 2 days on this, and feel little sick of it now. i need to take a break and step back and think about how it should be...
I know that feeling. You can come to loathe your own work a bit after being so engrossed in it. Sometimes it helps to put it aside for a while. Things I've written and forgotten about only to stumble on later often sound better to me that what I'm presently working on.

I also know what's it's like to be more melodically inclined. Some people will compose from a harmonic progession. That never occurs with me; I always start with some melodic idea.

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#1151765 - 12/26/05 03:17 PM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
Arjen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/05
Posts: 173
Loc: Groningen, Netherlands
Signa: Great start! If you allow someone as skillless as me to comment: if I'm not mistaken you are using some rather dissonant sounds between left/right hand. For example, during the G7M you'd might want to avoid the F in the melody line since it clashes a bit with the F# in the bass. So either make that F# an F or change the bass into a G7 chord. Just a tiny suggestion. \:D

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#1151766 - 12/26/05 03:56 PM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
Allazart Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 389
OK, the link is working now and I listened to it.

That first theme definitely evokes the feeling of walking outside. The little trills make me think of either birdsong or skipping as one walks through the countryside. Then the rolling bass gives extra propulsion to it. Nicely conceived, I must say.

It is a great start!
With a bit more experimentation, you'll find the bass lines you can already hear in you mind.

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#1151767 - 12/26/05 04:39 PM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
sarabande Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 1597
Loc: Mo.
Really nice work! I like the fast rhythmical repetitive arpeggios. They lend toward a character of its own. If you're doing ABA type of form, maybe leave the rhythm and harmony the way it is in the A, then vary it rhythmically and/or harmonically somewhere in the middle B section, then go back to the original arrpeggiated rythm at the end. But I like it the way it is. I'll be looking forward to hearing the whole thing.

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#1151768 - 12/26/05 07:48 PM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
thanks everyone for comments, which i definitely need as i usually doubt myself when composing.

Allazart, indeed composing is an exhausting process and i often wonder why i am getting into this, especially when my creation doesn't sound good enough. it's going to take a long process to even get something decent out this project. i don't always have confidence in myself when it comes to music.

actually, 2nd theme is in wrong timing (1/3 longer than it should be), which evokes the 'dissonance' as Arjen pointed out. it sounded weird to me when i listened to it last night and didn't quite sound like what i played on piano. i only realized it today something indeed is wrong. once 1st and 2nd themes are in sync, it would sound better. i would fix it later when i have time...

sarabande, you're right about rhythmical bass which i do think it should be kept evenly throughout to provide the background, i.e. the scene, but i also plan to play with different figurations in the middle sections as the themes develop in various ways. i thought of how the middle section should go and which should contain several brief episodes in contrast. it starts to feel like a more complicated work, even though originally i wanted to keep it simple. we shall see...

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#1151769 - 12/26/05 08:29 PM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
sarabande Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 1597
Loc: Mo.
signa, sounds like good ideas. I like your ideas for the middle section. I think mine is turning out to be pretty simplistic harmonies, like i iv quite a bit. I think your piece sounds really great and complex, really rhythmical sounding, I wouldn't second guess it at all.

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#1151770 - 12/27/05 02:17 AM Re: MIP - Meeting and passing
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
here is the new link to the file:

http://www.savefile.com/files2.php?fid=7789453

i only fixed the 2nd theme's timing and got rid of some clashes, but didn't have time yet to work on bass line.

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