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#1152139 - 01/05/08 04:22 PM "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
dave18 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 128
Loc: California, USA
Hello all!

I'm still relatively new to this board... and to piano... and to playing music in general! [If you want to skip past my history to the actual topic, skip this paragraph.] I have no musical background (I didn't play as a kid or anything) and I started learning to play a couple of years ago on a cheap little keyboard with no touch sensitivity. It was a nice start, but after a while I lost interest. Then I found an old acoustic upright at a thrift store and that really got me going again! Touch sensitivity with the feel of the hammer action keys made all the difference for me. Anyhow, I don't think I'll ever be a "performer" (in fact, I don't really enjoy learning new pieces) but as I mess around on the keyboard, I find that I really enjoy discovering/creating new melodies. I just bought a Casio Privia PX-110 so that I can more easily record (to the computer via MIDI) what I'm doing. Which leads me to the topic...

Do you, personally, make a huge distinction between "composing" and "songwriting"? I know the fact that lyrics are present typically changes what goes on with the melody. But in the case where a song is not using the lyrics to carry the melody, then is there any real distinction? I ask because this is "Composers Corner" and not "Songwriters Section". As I learn more and more about music in general, it seems to me that all of the theory applies to music in general, whether or not lyrics exist.

Anyhow, I just wanted to get people's thoughts to see what the general feel would be on this. OK, back to my C Major scale and chords. Yes, I have a long way to go! But I'm loving it! \:\)

dave

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#1152140 - 01/05/08 09:54 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
gaffster Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 244
Loc: east central florida
A song is only one type of a "piece of music" that is usually short with just a few parts, verse, chorus, bridge.
Then you have sonatas, symphonies, preludes, toccata and fugues, and so on...
All are considered compositions, thus the word "composer" ;\)
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#1152141 - 01/05/08 10:04 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
I think the distinction is at least partly cultural. "Composer" is classical, and "songwriter" is popular.

Schubert wrote songs -- but we wouldn't say that he was a songwriter.

Andrew Lloyd Weber wrote an opera (Phantom of the Opera, which he himself considered an opera but everyone else considers a pop musical) and I don't know that many people would call him a composer.


Personally, I don't see a need for a seperate forum. Writing music is writing music -- doesn't matter if you call it "composing" or "songwriting" or "torturing audiences" etc.
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Sam

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#1152142 - 01/05/08 10:31 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
dave18 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 128
Loc: California, USA
Hey guys, thanks for the replies!

 Quote:
A song is only one type of a "piece of music" that is usually short with just a few parts, verse, chorus, bridge.
Then you have sonatas, symphonies, preludes, toccata and fugues, and so on...
OK, that's a good distinction... "composition" includes any type of an entire body of work, whereas a "song" is just one type of composition. To put it another way, all songs are compositions, but not all compositions are songs. I like that. \:\)
 Quote:
I think the distinction is at least partly cultural.
Oh, I think you're right. The Andrew Lloyd Weber example is an excellent one. Scores from Rodgers and Hammerstein, for instance, might be in a cultural gray area with regards to this too.

 Quote:
Personally, I don't see a need for a seperate forum. Writing music is writing music -- doesn't matter if you call it "composing" or "songwriting" or "torturing audiences" etc.
LOL! Yeah, "torturing" is a good term. Well, with the "differences" more clearly defined, I agree that no separate forum is needed. It just looks that my focus is more narrow than the whole of "composition", but songwriting is still composing. Although, one of my goals is to write an entire "rock opera", something that follows the form of Phantom of the Opera, Jesus Christ Superstar, Tommy, Chess, etc.

OK, well, at least I know I'm in the right forum here! \:\)

Thanks again!
dave

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#1152143 - 01/06/08 12:09 AM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
cccyyy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 22
Loc: Canada
I think that as time goes on songwriting and composition will become closer and closer together and soon there will be no distinction.
Post-modern rock could still be considered "song writing" to some degree, however the vocal aspect seemed to change from being "voice as narrator" to "voice as texture" to "purely instrumental music".
Some of the leading popular artists of today who still write in the standard verse-churus-verse style I would consider to be composers, like Thom Yorke or Sigur Ros.
Then there is electronic music that melds into the atmospheric, minimalist and ambient music which continues the legacy of 20th century composers. Ex. Brian Eno is a popular musician with music videos on television, putting on concerts to people of all ages but I would still consider him to be a composer as well as a songwriter. His music has a deep concepts but still appeals pop music crowds. In fact, he might be one of the first song-writing composers who broke helped to bring pop music crowds into the "serious" composer music scene because his ambient music drew from previous minimalist composers such as Terry Riley, La Monte Young, Steve Reich, John Adams, and Cage (of course).

Then there's also the subject of electronic music like psytrance which also continues the work of those minimalist composers and also ambient composers like Brian Eno and such, that draws from minimalism ambient music but has an inexplicable energy to it, would you call Psytrance DJ's composers? or song writers? or do they fit into either of these categories.

I guess the point of my rant is that distinctions for the most part of unnecessary, and in this case song writer and composer are melding together to be pretty much the same thing.

\:\)

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#1152144 - 01/06/08 12:29 AM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5932
Loc: Down Under
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianojerome:
I think the distinction is at least partly cultural. "Composer" is classical, and "songwriter" is popular.
Schubert wrote songs -- but we wouldn't say that he was a songwriter.
Andrew Lloyd Weber wrote an opera (Phantom of the Opera, which he himself considered an opera but everyone else considers a pop musical) and I don't know that many people would call him a composer.
[/b]
Well, I don't know, pianojerome. As far as I can see, anyone who composes music(of whatever sort) is a composer. I'm happy to call ALWebber a composer. (whether I'm prepared to listen to Memory ever again in my life is another question \:\) ). And I'll happily call Schubert a writer of songs, so I'm not sure why I wouldn't call him a songwriter. In fact I think I do.

What I wouldn't do is what my son's recently completed high school English course insisted on - that is, calling anyone who created any piece of work such as a novel, a film, a poem ... a composer - as in "the composer of this text..." ! Talk about blurring the meaning of words!
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#1152145 - 01/06/08 12:35 AM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
hotkeys Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 788
Loc: Massapequa, NY
I agree with Sam's (Pianojerome) view on the "Cultural" aspects. Song writer and composer are basically the same thing; it is not to diminish the achievements of Mozart, Beethoven, Mendelssohn and others in that era, to the likes of popular writers such as the team of John Lennon and Paul McCartney and others in the popular world. \:\)

- Mark
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#1152146 - 01/06/08 01:03 AM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
dave18 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 128
Loc: California, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Carolynnn:
would you call Psytrance DJ's composers? or song writers? or do they fit into either of these categories.
[/b]
Yeah, you are definitely hitting a gray area here. I have already been thinking along these lines with regards to some of the synthesizing modules that are currently available out there. Some of the synthesized "instruments" actually play what sounds like an entire song for each key. So if I "compose" something that consists of the two notes A followed by B, have I really "composed" anything? Eek. I tend to think not. I suppose someone could argue that since I didn't create the notes that come from a piano, that I can't really "compose" anything using one.
 Quote:
Originally posted by Carolynnn:
I guess the point of my rant is that distinctions for the most part of unnecessary [/b]
Yeah, I think that point is well taken. \:\)

 Quote:
Originally posted by currawong:

What I wouldn't do is what my son's recently completed high school English course insisted on - that is, calling anyone who created any piece of work such as a novel, a film, a poem ... a composer - as in "the composer of this text..." ! Talk about blurring the meaning of words!
[/b]
Hehe... yeah, just like the A-B "song" I mentioned above would not be considered as such, right? \:\)

 Quote:
Originally posted by hotkeys:

it is not to diminish the achievements of Mozart, Beethoven, Mendelssohn and others in that era, to the likes of popular writers such as the team of John Lennon and Paul McCartney and others in the popular world. \:\)
[/b]
Ouch! I'm not touching that one! \:\)

I'm sure this type of "debate" has been going on for ages. I'm sure synthesizers and computers in music only intensify it, as well!

dave

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#1152147 - 01/06/08 06:17 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
hyonchingonchon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 148
song= singing
piece= anything else
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#1152148 - 01/06/08 06:22 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
Kage Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 74
Composer sounds a lot better than the term song writer, and as people have mentioned above, isn't making even a pop song, composing?

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#1152149 - 01/06/08 11:30 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by hyonchingonchon:
song= singing
piece= anything else [/b]
Depends whom you ask, and it depends on the context. Would you call instrumental rock music a "piece" or a "song"? (or an "instrumental song"?)

Are all of the pop fans wrong to call an instrumental piece a "song", or are they right by virtue of the fact that this is how "song" is used by the public?

Stepping out of music for a second, some medical snobs might get tied up in a wad about the public's misuse of the word "allergy." Most people use it to mean any negative reaction to any stimulus, e.g. "I'm allergic to exercise" or "I ate an ice-cream bar and then got a sore throat, so I must be allergic to ice-cream." Actually, "allergy" is a very specific medical term that means something very different, and much more specific, than the popular usage. You can't be allergic to exercise, although you might have aesthma (which is not an allergy). You might get sick from eating ice-cream, but maybe you're just lactose-intolerant (which is not an allergy). But, on the other hand, given that so many people use "allergy" to mean "any negative reaction to any stimulus", does that mean that this is actually a correct definition? So there are 2 "correct" usages of the same word, depending on the context (popular vs. specialist)?


Another example: some grammar snobs might get themselves in a wad upon hearing someone use "impact" as a verb. It's a noun! But, about 50 years ago, a news reporter used "impact" as a verb, and since then, pretty much everyone else uses it as a verb, too. So, what of it? Is it only a noun, and everyone is wrong to use it as a verb? Or is it both a noun and a verb, because that's how people use it?


Another example, back to music: the word 'classical.' Some specialists use the word to mean only certain kinds of music from the years 1750-1800. But the general public uses it to mean basically any music from any era that is not popular or folk. So, what does the word *really* mean? Or can it mean 2 different things?

When we define a word a certain way, are we saying "This is what the word means regardless of how people use it, and anyone who uses it differently is wrong" or are we saying "This is what it means *because* that is how people use it"?
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#1152150 - 01/07/08 11:46 AM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2738
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
I don't actually think the distinction between a song and a composition has been adequately described. Obviously a song is a vocal work, we sing songs, but the true distinction goes much deeper. Generally, songs are made up of verses and choruses with the option for a bridge in the middle, hence the term ABACABA to denote the typical form of a song. One can certainly add an introduction and/or a coda, and something in the middle (guitar solo, vocal improv, contrasting vocal section, whatever), but in general the melody and chord progression of the verses and chorus (or refrain) remains the same. In a composition (instrumental) there will almost always be significant variation and development of the music as a piece progresses.
Thus writing a song generally consists of composing the verious sections and arranging them whereas composing a piece of music means composing the notes and instrumentation from start to finish. This is why such music is sometimes referred to as "through composed."

Bottom line is it's all about organizing sounds.

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#1152151 - 01/07/08 01:40 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
song writing usually means composing for something to sing, with lyrics usually. also, songs usually follow some sort of 'song form', which has some specific ways to construct 1st phrase, 2nd phrase, ... etc. usually in sort of square structure, and has basic ABA or ABACAB sort of forms. if you analyze a folk song for example, its structure is very square and formulated.

but anything beyond the song form, the structure is more complicated. for some large work, such as symphonies, you'd have each movement with not only themetical difference, but also harmonic difference and form difference. now, we're talking about composing.

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#1152152 - 01/07/08 07:51 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5932
Loc: Down Under
 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Chandler:
Generally, songs are made up of verses and choruses with the option for a bridge in the middle, hence the term ABACABA to denote the typical form of a song.
[/b]
You're talking about popular songs here, which probably should be made clear. The classical song repertoire consists of thousands of songs, some of which are strophic and many of which are through-composed. I see "song" as a term describing a piece of music which is sung. This includes Lieder by Wolf, Schubert, R.Strauss, as well as songs by Faure, Poulenc, Britten, de Falla ... etc. These are songs, but they are also compositions. Anything that is composed is a composition isn't it? Or a piece of music, if you like? Unfortunately we can't control how people use language, or what meanings they start to put on certain terms, but for me:
writing music = composing
one who writes music (of any sort) = composer
music which is composed = composition
composition which is sung (solo or small group) = song
one who writes songs (of any sort) = songwriter. Or composer, depending on the context. I'm happy to call Schubert a songwriter!
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#1152153 - 01/07/08 07:54 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5932
Loc: Down Under
 Quote:
Originally posted by signa:
but anything beyond the song form, the structure is more complicated. for some large work, such as symphonies, you'd have each movement with not only themetical difference, but also harmonic difference and form difference. now, we're talking about composing. [/b]
But surely you don't mean that Schubert was composing when he wrote the Trout quintet, but not composing when he wrote the original song The Trout (die Forelle)? (which has a simple strophic structure)
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#1152154 - 01/08/08 02:50 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
there's a simple answer for that: because he used his previous song material and rearranged it for his quintet. there's nothing wrong with that. i was just making that statement in general. there're however many exceptions, such as Ravel's Bolero which has a simple structure form-wise.

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#1152155 - 01/08/08 06:16 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5932
Loc: Down Under
OK, but I still don't think that somewhere (at what point??) along the simple-complex line a piece turns into a composition and its writer into a composer. \:\)
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#1152156 - 01/09/08 05:52 AM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
Late Beginner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 588
Loc: West Australia
 Quote:
Originally posted by currawong:
for me:
writing music = composing
one who writes music (of any sort) = composer
music which is composed = composition
composition which is sung (solo or small group) = song
one who writes songs (of any sort) = songwriter. Or composer, depending on the context. I'm happy to call Schubert a songwriter! [/b]
For me too!

And, incidentally, for any dictionary that you'd care to consult as well. ;\)

Where the personal opinions, bunfights and general snootiness comes in is when you capitalise it and start talking about Composers[/b] with a capital C.

Rough Rules of Thumb for Recognising Composers:

1. Dead (the deader the better). During his lifetime Puccini was probably regarded as a popular tunesmith - much like Andrew Lloyd Webber - but he is unquestionably dead enough now to be revered as a Composer. As a long time fan of Opera By Dead People, I can assure everybody that much of it was as corny and awful in its day as anything modern (and if you remove the veneer of deadness respectability, much of it still is. ).

2. Serious. No jingle writers, penners of pub tunes, or dirty limerick merchants please.

3. Extra points for bizarre hair and/or episodes of madness or angst.

I am a composer (small c). I have created and written music. I can even (grammatically correctly) claim to have composed the odd thoughtful letter (usually asking for something). However I'm definitely not a Composer (but check the obituary columns, I'm not getting any younger... :p )

Cheers,

Chris
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#1152157 - 01/09/08 06:09 AM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5262
Loc: Europe
Making music = composing no matter what genre...

Even a DJ could be potentiall composing (unless all he does is matching BMPs, right?).

Track: anything on media. A single piece of audio
Piece: usually not with words
Song: usually with words.
Schubert: In between everything... The bastard... ;\)
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#1152158 - 01/09/08 07:18 AM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
Jimmo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 67
Loc: United Kingdom
Hmm, I mostly agree with you Nikolas - but with reservations. What follows, of course, is just my armchair opinion \:\)

For me, there is a difference between the dictionary definition of composing vs. what I have in my minds eye as the work produced by "a composer". I accept that this is arbitrary to a certain degree.

Unless the DJ is using their original work, I'd struggle to view them as composing, in the same way that I see a difference between a chef and someone who simply replicates someone else's recipe.

Also, if you take a sequenced track of repetitive hooks that you may find examples of on, say, on MTV bass etc. doesn't "feel" like a composition, despite it being valid to describe it as such as per the dictionary.

It is hard to explain but I do feel there is a certain "je ne sais quois" that differentiates someone who makes a track comprised of sequences with little variation from a composer. It's hard - some of the trance-style of music that you get from artists like Crystal Method very much come across as compositions, whereas the bare-bones rhythm & jingle sequences behind some R'n'B tracks are little more than sound stages for the vocals...for some reason, these feel more like "songwriting" than "composition".

Naturally there are exceptions and I don't mean to generalize across entire genres. It's probably easier to stay within the literal dictionary definitions that encompass all musical construction as "composition" with "songwriting" being a structured form of composition with vocal arrangements along the lines of what Steve C. described earlier.

Whatever I myself may be, one thing is for certain - I'm very much an amateur \:\) hehe
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#1152159 - 01/09/08 01:50 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
dave18 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 128
Loc: California, USA
Well, it looks like we've got a consensus. I sure am glad that's resolved! \:\)

Actually, this whole discussion gives me a much better idea as to how people view the whole thing. Songwriting is composing, but there are definitely repetitive songs out there that don't "feel" very composed.

Chris, I like your definition of a "Composer" with a capital "C". Had me in tears. Especially the part about the hair. \:\)

Also, I've heard talk of some pieces being "just" a backdrop for the vocals. But isn't the human voice an instrument as well? In pop music it's typically the lead instrument, but well sung vocals follow a progression of notes and typically make a melody. Would a piece be somehow more "composed" if a piano or flute progressed through those same notes instead of a human voice?

It really does seem like there's a "feel" factor here. Maybe we could get a US Supreme Court justice to determine what's "composed" for us: "I know it when I hear it." \:\)

dave

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#1152160 - 01/09/08 04:11 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by currawong:
OK, but I still don't think that somewhere (at what point??) along the simple-complex line a piece turns into a composition and its writer into a composer. \:\) [/b]
i guess that you understand that i didn't say it in theoritical or technical term, in which composing means either song writing or instrumental music composing. but whenever people say 'song writing' it usaully refers to 'writing music for songs', and some people do it for living and call themselves as song writers. but those composers who compose mostly instrumental works would never call themselve a song writer, even if they'd write songs or even art songs sometimes.

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#1152161 - 01/09/08 04:28 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
Late Beginner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 588
Loc: West Australia
 Quote:
Originally posted by dave18:
But isn't the human voice an instrument as well?

dave [/b]
Indeed it is. \:\) In fact it's often claimed that the voice is the premier instrument and that it's the one that humans most instinctively respond to. It certainly has an amazing range of qualities and capbilities. Much to the annoyance of those of us who sing like wounded dogs, it's always the singer who gets their face and name on the front of the album cover, and who demands - and gets - the centre stage spotlight.

One of the huge benefits of overcoming our natural reluctance to inflict our vocal emanations on the world, and actually do a bit of singing practice, is that you can then effectively play two instruments at once. This doubles the fun, but probably at least trebles the effects that you can create with your performance.

I would pay very good money for more playing ability, but I would kill for a better voice...

Cheers,

Chris
(Sorry, I lost my composure there for a moment.... ;\) )
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#1152162 - 01/09/08 05:26 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5932
Loc: Down Under
 Quote:
Originally posted by signa:
i guess that you understand that i didn't say it in theoritical or technical term, in which composing means either song writing or instrumental music composing. but whenever people say 'song writing' it usaully refers to 'writing music for songs', and some people do it for living and call themselves as song writers. but those composers who compose mostly instrumental works would never call themselve a song writer, even if they'd write songs or even art songs sometimes. [/b]
Yes, I get where you are now, signa, and I agree. The problem with this thread is probably that we're discussing two things at the same time - what words have come to mean in some contexts, and what concepts mean overall. But it's been fun \:\) .
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#1152163 - 01/09/08 06:35 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
dave18 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 128
Loc: California, USA
Chris,
 Quote:
Originally posted by Late Beginner:
I would kill for a better voice...[/b]
LOL! You and me both! \:\) Actually, I think I can see the writing on the wall. Even though I can't sing, if I plan on writing lyrics, I think I'm going to have to sing some of them, especially if I write one of those songs where the lyrics carry the melody. Yikes! That's a scary prospect!

But wait, could there be hope... I know when I sing in a room with a vaulted ceiling, it sounds better than in a closed room, and in the shower it sounds even better. And a karaoke mike sounds better than a normal mike. So, with reverb and echo... is there software out there to modify the voice enough to get someone who can't sing through a pop/rock song without killing everyone? \:\)

OK, back to my piano. \:\)
dave

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#1152164 - 01/09/08 08:19 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
Late Beginner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 588
Loc: West Australia
 Quote:
Originally posted by dave18:
Actually, I think I can see the writing on the wall. Even though I can't sing, if I plan on writing lyrics, I think I'm going to have to sing some of them, especially if I write one of those songs where the lyrics carry the melody. Yikes! That's a scary prospect!
\:\)
dave [/b]
Go for it Dave! \:D

Very few people actually can't sing. If you can croak out Happy Birthday or Twinkle Twinkle Little Star then you can sing. The rest is practice and polish, just like any instrument.

The only mistake is imagining that if you can't sing naturally and immediately then you're doomed to always be bad. None of us expect to be instantly good at any other instrument. The great thing about voice is that you've always got your instrument with you, and can practice hands-free as you drive, or wherever.

As you've suggested, there are many tricks in the effects box that can enhance the vocal qualities of your voice. Many singers have their voices tweaked through the equipment, even on 'live' gigs. But I'm guessing you know that - you'd just like the 'Instant Sinatra' module...

I also fancy myself at having a bash at songwriting. Here's an early attempt. As you can tell I'm not faking either the lousy singing, or the deeply mediocre playing. But it suits the theme of the song. And most of all I swallowed my pride, and fears and DID it!

Perfectionist Beginner Blues


Good luck with your singing, composing and songwriting.

Cheers,

Chris
_________________________
Who needs feet of clay? I can get into enough trouble with feet made of regular foot stuff...

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#1152165 - 01/09/08 11:23 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
dave18 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 128
Loc: California, USA
Chris!

I don't even know what to say. I've got a big old grin on my face! I love your lyrics... they are great! And so appropriate! Wow... well, with the encouragement, and that song... how could I not sing? \:\) Honestly, I love what you've done with that. It just goes to show that sometimes you just need to push forward, no matter what. Wow. I don't know what else to say, except that I'm going to sing. \:\)

 Quote:
Good luck with your singing, composing and songwriting.
Thank you! And you too! I plan on hanging around this board, so I hope you don't mind if I ask you from time to time how your singing is going. \:\)

dave <-- also with the can't sing blues \:\)

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#1152166 - 01/10/08 12:52 AM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
Late Beginner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 588
Loc: West Australia
 Quote:
Originally posted by dave18:
It just goes to show that sometimes you just need to push forward, no matter what. Wow. I don't know what else to say, except that I'm going to sing. \:\)
[/b]
We have a pact then mate. Race you to the top of the charts... \:D

Chris
_________________________
Who needs feet of clay? I can get into enough trouble with feet made of regular foot stuff...

Top
#1152167 - 01/10/08 07:50 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
dave18 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 128
Loc: California, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Late Beginner:
We have a pact then mate. Race you to the top of the charts...
[/b]
LOL! You got it, man! A pact it is! Oh, and let the race begin! \:\)

dave

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#1152168 - 01/28/08 04:34 PM Re: "Composing" vs "Songwriting"
piano_deb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 787
Loc: Memphis, TN
 Quote:
currawong wrote:[/b]
What I wouldn't do is what my son's recently completed high school English course insisted on - that is, calling anyone who created any piece of work such as a novel, a film, a poem ... a composer - as in "the composer of this text..." ! Talk about blurring the meaning of words!
Actually, that's a perfectly valid use of the word. While "composer" is most popularly/typically used to refer to someone who composes music, there's nothing specifically musical about the etymology of the word, which comes from the Latin “componere,” meaning to combine, put together or arrange objects. One can compose any type of work from a painting or photograph to a sonnet or essay. (Which helps to explain why many academic writing classes are called "English Composition" or something similar.) So, odd as it may sound to a musician, referring to the composer of a poem, etc. is correct.

Thanks by the way for the etymological exercise. I like looking up the derivation/meaning of words.

\:\)
_________________________
Deborah
Charles Walter 1500
Happiness is a shiny red piano.

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