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Hi everyone, for my music GCSE (England) we have a thing called an intergrated assignment, where we must compose music to a brief. The breif I chose was western, as it is the only one I think I will enjoy doing. But guess what? I don't know how to compose (preferably for piano) in an authentic westen style. I was wondering if anyone could give me any tips? - for example, are there any chords, or common progressions in western style music? I'm willing to work hard at this, and to be honest I want this to be the best intergrated assignment in our group...

I have a music teacher that seems to hold a grudge against me... I was the only person in my music class to spend serious personal time working hard at a composition (because I enjoy it) yet, even though I produced a small koncertstucke, I got ridiculed in many ways about how it had "too many instruments" "couldnt be performed live" (because our band is rubbish) and it actualy doesn't need to be performed anyway! the exams accept midis...

I have an MP3 version which is even better quality! He also marked me harshly on a live performance of one of Chopins Nocturne's, because he didn't like my interpritation.... I SCRAPED an A, I want an A*, (I can record this again, but its a bit of a pain.)So this time around i'm out to compose something simple but effective... Something only someone deaf could ridicule!

But I could do with some tips, any advice would be MUCH appreciated, oh and my theory isn't fantastic, i'm working at grade 5 theory, so if you could take that in account to it would be even better, however any advice would be fantastic

Thanks alot everyone,

C H O P I N

Hey Chopin,

Maybe this will give you a direction. I've composed several western "saloon" piano solos.

"The Sunshine Saloon"
Sorry, but I had to remove the link. Thanks for listening.
Good luck with your assignment.

Best, John

Johnny Boy.... I'm listening to that in amazement! wohaaaaaaaaaaa! damn, If I could do something a quater as great as that!!!!!!!! arghhh im so jealous!!!!!

Outstanding, arghhhhh how did you learn to do that?

WOW

Cheersss!!!!!!!!

C H O P I N

This is the Exact breif:

Comopse music to accompany a Western film.

You may wish to follow the timings shown, or devise timings of your own.

0'00' From a hilltop, a cowboy loks down on a small town near the Mexican boarder.

0'25' He rides slowoly into the town and hitches his horse outside the saloon bar, from inside which music can be heard

0'50' Having carefully checked his gun, he walks purpousefully through the swing-doors and heads for the bar. Amongst the card-players around the tables, he notices one in particular - an old enemy.

1'10' As he slowly crosses the floor, the noise subsides and the music trails away to an uneasy scilence.

1'30 In the mirror behind the bar, he sees the card player reaching for his gun. In one movement the cowboy swings around, drawing his gun and firing one shot. The cwboy slumps forward - dead.

1'50' The cowboy replaces his gun in the holster, walks out of the bar, mounts his horse and rides slowly away.

2'15' The music resumes

2'30' End.

Again, my teacher is against me wanting to take this piece, he wants the class to take the "easy" option of making a gigue, or a lively dance in 3/4.... well before I retire to that option I want to give this a fair chance first, because to me, its much more interestng.

I think, to make music to fit the breif I must pick out the key words that I think I CAN portray with music. Johnny Boy's saloon music was PERFECT for the saloon scene part and could repeat (after the villan is dead).

Anyways, thats whazt i'm up against

Cheers

C H O P I N

Thanks for the great critique Chopin.

How did I learn to do that? Not sure.

I did subject myself to a lot of listening to all piano styles in my early years. And I practiced a lot. I guess it’s just experience. Sorry I can’t be more specific.

When I start a new piece, I try to get into it emotionally. For this saloon piece, I actually got myself to believe I was an old western saloon piano player.

I wish you luck with your assignment partner.

Happy trails, Tex (I mean John)

I guess your signature sums it up pretty well.

My piano teacher who is a composer, helped me get the mexican feel by using a pattern of thirds, he also showed me how to get the "galloping horse effect", but wow, that saloon music, if I could do something like that, It definately would be the best!

Cheers

C H O P I N

I noticed a few things about John's piece:

* the tremelos
* the left hand "boom chucks"
* the dotted rhythms

yes the tremelos gave a great feeling (is it fair to say this was similar to a rag?... I was always sure that joplin's music was saloon music, but i'm not sure if the dates fit)

what are boom chucks? the large chords the oom pah feel?

Didn't realize I was "boom chucking". I'll have to see a doctor about that. I hope there’s a cure.

Yeah Chopin, I guess my signature is the best advice I can give you, though Sam summed up the technicalities of this style well.

Best, John

ha ha, yeah once upon a time I composed a rag, it was pretty bad but I have a feeling I could make a half decent one now days. I have worked endlessly today on a starting theme, and i've got a mexican feel to the music (this isn't the rag part) for the first part of the breif, which is good.

Thanks

C H O P I N

Be sure and post your work here when you finish Chopin.

Best, John

I will do, if this Western thing works out well... if not then i'm going to have to do the gigue - which isn't the most thrilling thing in the world, but its in my comfort zone. I have a fair while to compose this piece which is good, but i'm gonna have to choose which one I ndertake pretty soon. I wish my music teacher was more supportive of this idea... he allways opts for the "easy option" instead of teaching us the fundimentals of more interesting styles.

Cheers John

C H O P I N

Boom chuck -- when you get really frustrated during a recording session and throw the microphones out the window. (a.k.a. defenestration.)

ha ha

Chopin, I wish you all the best. Working against a teacher like that is hard. Life is always challenging but you will be stronger for it.
Good luck in your exams, and don't stress, I failed music A level but still have a degree in music (because my grade 8 piano distinction got me through). Do what YOU know you can do. By the sound of it, you probably will.

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here. We only have one side of the story. It seems Chopin's persecution is so terrible that he earned a mere A for his interpretation of a Chopin Nocturne (note correct spelling of interpretation, that is something a teacher can mark you down for). I also notice that Chopin seems to make a habit of ignoring his teacher's advice, because composing for a western is the only one he thinks he'll enjoy (maybe because he thinks it will be easier). Then he admits his theory isn't fantastic, nor is he familiar with the technical term boom chuck. Could his teacher have been more constructive in his criticism of the Koncertstuecke? Perhaps, as parent of a 17 year old son I know teens are entirely capable of misconstruing constructive commentary as ridicule and disrespect.

So my advice which is offered as constructive criticism and not ridicule nor disrespect would be to have a sit down heart to heart with your teacher. Tell him your goal is to get an A+. Ask if that's possible and formulate a plan between the two of you to accomplish that. Then execute the plan.

The Nocturne was up to my piano teachers highest standards, but not my music teachers. If I played something he enjoyed or liked listening to he would be all over me.

Outside of school, I MAKE time (through my huge amounts of homework and GCSE revision) to participate in my music teachers band practise. I don't think I want to do it now, because quite frankly he's put me off, all he does is moan and pick at me for not being spot on. (ive been playing piano for 2 years)

Me and my singing friend wanted to perform Schubert's Standchen for an ensemble performace (another requirement) my music teacher didn't want us to. instead he forced a piece from an opera called "Ruddigore" up on us. Fair enough.

I practised it as best as I could for about a week. When I played it to him at his request, his criticism was not constructive, it was just nasty! ( If he told me where I as going wrong, then I wouldn't mind as much)

To but it blunt Mr Chandler my teacher's advice is pathetic. even more so when we get to the integrated assignment; His way of "advising" me about choosing breif 1 (the western) was by calling me a fool. His issue was that timing the piece to the breif would be too difficult, when it explicitely stated IN THE BREIF that you could make up your own timings. I raised this point and he refused to accept it, because he was so determined to brush the whole class off with the easy breifs.

It's not that the western is the easyer option, it's the hardest out of all 4. Thats why I want it and THAT'S why I see it as the one I will enjoy the most, and the one that will BENIFIT me byfr the most. I can compose a gigue, sure why not? because it's in my confort zone, and I want something new, fresh if you will. and it's his job to encourage me, and teach me, and advise me.

As for taking his constructive criticism as "ridicule and disrespect" I don't see it, if ones aim is to put someone off of music through his "constructive criticism" then its begining to work

As for confronting. I have a parents evening and my parents are fully aware of the matter, and all I crave is the CONSTRUCTIVE criticsm, believe it or not i'm not on the warpath with him... if my musics pathetic crap, then so be it, but I'd like to know why atleast, and what I could do to improve, considering no matter how I ask he never provides it, id say his behaviour is wrong, and totaly unfair, considering i'm the only one who appears to get it.

I'm not even allowed to practise on a piano at school now in lesson, because it disturbs others. So again, in my own luch time, i find a practise room - and play then.

Thanks for the advice Mr Chandler, but what I failed to mention was the above (I didn't orignaly want to dive into such detail on the matter)

Cheers

C H O P I N

PS - anyone ever listened to Aron Copeland? - my piano teacher reccomended him for western music, along with the obvious Morricone classics.

Normally I wouldn't respond to an obvious overreaction such as Chopin's, but this is a learning opportunity so let's see if I can be more constructive than his teacher. BTW, overreactions are indicative by themselves of what the dynamic between student and teacher may be about. The following is speculation on my part based on what little information has been posted here. If I'm way off base please let me know. We have a student who sees himself as talented and creative and being held back by his teacher. The teacher sees a talented kid who hasn't applied himself to learning theory, but wants to be a composer. A search of this forum will yield many discussion about the importance of learning theory for composers.

The music business is a tough and brutally competitive one where it's common for those in positions of power to abuse their power. If this is your first experience with this then your teacher is doing you a huge favor. Your first mission will be to grow thicker skin. Music appreciation is totally subjective and if you can't handle it when someone tells you your best most sincere effort "sucked pond water" then you won't last in it.

One of the most important skills anyone can learn is how to communicate effectively with someone you don't agree with. There are very few teens who are even aware that such a skill is important. They just want everyone to agree with them. If your teacher offered no constructive criticism then it's your job to ask, "Please clarify why it sucked pond water." An answer such as, "It just did!" wouldn't cut it. And to such a response I would respond, "Well obviously you have strong feelings about it so tell me about that. And if you're unable to articulate a well reasoned justification I'll just have to assume you're having a bad day." That might get you in deeper trouble with this teacher, but since you're already there what difference would it make? Besides if it ever went to an administrator you could honestly say you were soliciting constructive feedback on a strong, but unjustified opinion.

In your last post you failed to justify any of your judgments. You called his criticism of your playing "nasty" but you neglected to tell us what he said so we have to accept your judgment. This is exactly what you are criticising in your teacher, a strong opinion with no justification. So I would beg to differ, you haven't dived into any detail, you've simply elaborated your story.

BTW, if he called you a fool because your timings would be too difficult (regarding the brief for the western piece) then he's offered constructive criticism. I assume he wanted something simpler so what's the harm in giving it to him? You could tell him that calling you a fool is unnecessary and solicit his opinion on how to make the timings better.

My point is that people are fallible and will throw a lot of emotion your way. Reacting in kind (emotionally) may seem justified, but it will only hold you back. When you show calm in the face of the storm you demonstrate confidence, courage and resolve you elicit that from others (even adults). Don't get sucked into responding at his level, always take the higher road.

BTW, Copland is very American but only Billy the Kid has any western flavor to it.

So did I do better than your teacher?