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#14837 - 02/23/09 10:09 AM Re: brodmann
BoseEric Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 731
Loc: Fairfield County, CT
 Quote:
Brodmann was a project started by Boesendorfer years ago before they had to eventually abondon it, this apparently due to financial difficulties.
The project never got beyond a very early stage due to marketing issues, not financial difficulties.
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#14838 - 02/23/09 11:17 AM Re: brodmann
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19199
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
I've said this here so many times, it's becoming a broken record...
[/b]
Agree.

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#14839 - 02/23/09 12:17 PM Re: brodmann
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3650
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by BoseEric:
 Quote:
Brodmann was a project started by Boesendorfer years ago before they had to eventually abondon it, this apparently due to financial difficulties.
The project never got beyond a very early stage due to marketing issues, not financial difficulties. [/b]
Did it get farther than a thought? Were there any pianos designed, tested and approved?

My understanding is the product line is owned by a pianos dealer, Parsons in China. What connection did Parsons have with Bosendorfer?
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#14840 - 02/23/09 01:33 PM Re: brodmann
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7116
Loc: torrance, CA
Rod,

Your posts about pianos from China are so so obvious, not that transparency is necessarily a bad thing.
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#14841 - 02/23/09 01:47 PM Re: brodmann
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
In an earlier thread someone posted that Bosie ahd built prototypes. I don't recall if the poster said anything about what the execs took with them. In a more recent thread the 187's scale was said to be a copy of the Steinway A. In that thread Del posted that it was of an A2.

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#14842 - 02/23/09 03:45 PM Re: brodmann
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14101
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
For most pianists, piano players or music lovers, getting the right piano for themselves is a simple matter of musical/personal compatibility.

Compatibility can happen with any piano reagardless of its name or background or *who* designed it, *why* and for which specific purpose.

A player's choice doesn't need justification or *reason* and no piano shopper is accountable to anyone else but him/herself.[well, perhaps a wife or husband... ;\) ]

In this context every piano out there is making a contribution, if only for purposes of comparison or giving a different point of reference for shoppers.

On Saturday I received a very nice letter by someone who had opted for a different piano in the end but very much appreciated the experience she had trying out our Brodmann grands.

In my world, this is the stuff that makes it worth being in this business, as opposed to try selling each and everybody the piano one happens to carry, find justification for its existence and/or pretending to have the *right* answers for everybody at all times.

Norbert \:\)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
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#14843 - 02/23/09 06:58 PM Re: brodmann
Mocheol Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 527
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
Hm.
Seems I,m not the only one to laud Brodmanns virtues
[This thread now going 3 years!}
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#14844 - 02/24/09 12:30 AM Re: brodmann
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6146
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Well not really - let's say it was "resurrected" after three years. There have been several threads written during that time that have provided much more information about Brodmann pianos than can be found here. And yes - I happen to think Brodmanns are a smoking deal given what they sell for compared to other brands. HOWEVER - from a quality standpoint they are comparable to Yamaha, Kawai, Boston (Japanese) and Young Chang (Korean) - all GOOD consumer grade instruments. They are not Tier One or Two instruments. For the average player they are just fine. For heavier use, perhaps not.
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#1154995 - 03/01/09 12:39 AM Re: brodmann [Re: Rod Verhnjak]
Upscale Piano Lessons Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 6
Loc: Plaistow, NH
Hi Rod,

Thanks for the welcome!

Reverse engineering is when a company dissects a competitor's product in order to figure out what it's made of and how it works. Then, copies are manufactured that may or may not violate existing patents. (A notable example in music electronics is Behringer vs Mackie.)

Now, being that I have no inside or direct contact with anyone from Bosendorfer or Broadmann, this info is all from the grapevine and should be confirmed from sources other than myself. The story I heard was that Bosendorfer had started this project but abandoned it due to financial issues. The Bose execs who were supposed to run the project, went out and started it up on their own.

I would guess that the original Bosendorfer plan to copy a Steinway and sell it at $15k made a lot of sense from a competitive standpoint.

Have you had a chance to take a look or play the Broadmann yet? It has very little history so there's no proof as to how it will hold-up over time, but I was very impressed with it in every regard.

Paul

www.upscalepianolessons.com

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#1155363 - 03/01/09 05:11 PM Re: brodmann [Re: Rod Verhnjak]
Upscale Piano Lessons Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 6
Loc: Plaistow, NH
Ouch! shocked

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#1155398 - 03/01/09 06:18 PM Re: brodmann [Re: Rod Verhnjak]
Upscale Piano Lessons Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 6
Loc: Plaistow, NH
Hi Rod, Hi Jonathon,

Playing a Brodmann and posting on Pianoworld are both new to me. I will read the rules again to see if there's a time limit on responding to a thread. If I've made an error, my bad, I apologize to you and the community.

With that said, I think that you might consider a world where neophytes are welcomed and not unduly criticized or ridiculed for not being totally up to speed.

I thought this was going to be a nice, friendly place to talk about pianos... oops... STUPID ME!

Jonathon,

I noticed that Brodmann is not included in your product line: Could this be the reason for that three-year-old pebble in your shoe?

smirk

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#1157570 - 03/05/09 05:26 AM Re: brodmann [Re: Upscale Piano Lessons]
ChrisVenables Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: Hampshire, England
Hi

Brodmann seem to be receiving some good reviews.

Would any Brodmann dealers or Brodmann owners like to comment on their experiences when comparing Brodmann and, say, Yamaha in terms of reliability, tuning stability and quality of action/touch response? (I appreciate there is a considerable price difference) Also, from a dealer's viewpoint, are there any problems with continuity of supply?

Many thanks in advance for your time.
_________________________
Tech. & Partner: Venables Pianos
Yamaha Piano UK main dealer and Grand Piano Centre
Stocking new Yamaha, Brodmann and Venables & Son

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#1157839 - 03/05/09 01:25 PM Re: brodmann [Re: ChrisVenables]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
Chris,

Welcome on board as a European piano dealer. smile

There aren't all that many around here!

schwammerl.

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#1157849 - 03/05/09 01:34 PM Re: brodmann [Re: schwammerl]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
Quote:
I appreciate there is a considerable price difference


Officially there should not be all that much difference anymore with e.g. Yamaha in Europe if dealers would apply Brodmann's RRPs, e.g.:

http://www.brodmann-pianos.com/grand_piano_1870.html?&L=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.molod.net.ru%2Fforum%2Ftemplates%2FsubSilver%2Fimages%2Fesoxod%2Friwezin%2F

However price are a bit all around in Europe. Dealers like e.g. Precision Pianos in the Irish Republic or Besbrode, Leeds are in fact quoting prices based on RRPs of end of 2006! Not so however in e.g. France, Germany.

schwammerl.

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#1157865 - 03/05/09 02:14 PM Re: brodmann [Re: Norbert]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19199
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Brodman is just another of the many European-Chinese ventures which will introduce astoundingly new high quality pianos now coming on market.

Brodmann was a project started by Boesendorfer years ago before they had to eventually abondon it, this apparently due to financial difficulties.

The new Brodmann pianos and grands are really beautifully sounding pianos, each identically equipped with genuine German Strunz soundboards, German Helmut Abel hammers, the English made Langer action and, of course the obligatory high end German Roslau strings.

Judging by its tone, touch, design, manufactured components and execution of built and construction - Brodmann, from our experience and in our opinion, is a piano nearing almost now already the very edge of quality before reaching true high end.

Several piano dealers in the U.S. have confided to me that this is one of the most *worrisome* pianos coming up as a new competitior, especially in their own neighbourhood....

Due to their long affiliation with other, perhaps more established makes, it has often prevented them from 'making the move' adopting the line.

Gladly, we did not face the same kind of problem and have made our choice accordingly.

Norbert thumb


Is this a post or an advertisement??

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#1157872 - 03/05/09 02:27 PM Re: brodmann [Re: pianoloverus]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14101
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
Is this a post or advertisement?


Why not ask some *customers* of this piano including some other knowlegeable minds?

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...ite_id/1#import

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea....html#Post60566

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...ite_id/1#import

Brodmann grands were the only ones out 47 others to jump a whole category up into a new tier.

Even Larry Fine must have been out of his mind to allow this happening...

http://www.pianobook.com/supplement.html

Now, nobody here is forced to buy or even consider Brodmann.

On the other hand, as soon as somebody is becoming recognized as a serious competitor on the market he's being shot down by those perhaps feel most threatened by its sucess and emergence..

Luckily, none of those involve our or anybody else's customer's for this brand.

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (03/05/09 03:22 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1157884 - 03/05/09 02:57 PM Re: brodmann [Re: Norbert]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10431
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
The fact that Brodmann makes a decent piano doesn't justify one's running an advertising campaign for it. smirk

_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#1157896 - 03/05/09 03:11 PM Re: brodmann [Re: Steve Cohen]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14101
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Steve:

As the previous "Mr.Pramberger" par excellence you were so eager in advertising that brand here on the board that it even embarassed us dealers.

Praise by customers or consumers however, fall into a slightly different category.

For those of course, who understand the *difference*....

Norbert



Edited by Norbert (03/05/09 03:13 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1157902 - 03/05/09 03:22 PM Re: brodmann [Re: Steve Cohen]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19199
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen
The fact that Brodmann makes a decent piano doesn't justify one's running an advertising campaign for it. smirk



Exactly.

Norbert refuses to abide by the forum rules because he thinks he can probably get away with it. I've told him countless times that my objections have nothing to do with the particular piano he's giving his latest infomercial about or whether I think his statements are true.

Even if there was new piano ten times better than Boesendorfer and it cost $100 including a leather artist bench, 10 free tunings, Stanwoodized action, solid gold name plate, and lessons from Horowitz it is not appropriate for a dealer of that piano to endlessly self promote it here.

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#1157908 - 03/05/09 03:32 PM Re: brodmann [Re: pianoloverus]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14101
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Complete nonsense.

Actual customer reports about a brand like Brodmann and factual upgradings by Larry Fine are bits of information anybody can bring to the plate - in fact he/she *should*.

These are hard earned things in business and being largely customer/fact based - as are the links in my above post - are the most of all credible information available to consumers today.

You, Steve Cohen or anybody else, is very welcome to demonstrate the success of those brand you have either chosen for yourself or favourite of.

This threat, however, is about Brodmann and as a long time dealer for Brodmann I am entitled to make those remarks which are either based on our own experience or that by our customers.

The reason you and some others here keep fighting anything good being said about this make, is simply that you know the information is actually *correct* and has some kind of real or potential effect on your own [or your friends..] position within the market.

My advice: Choose those brands with highest potential and promise early in the game, otherwise your competition will.

Chances are, it already has....

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (03/05/09 03:44 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1157932 - 03/05/09 04:06 PM Re: brodmann [Re: Norbert]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19199
Loc: New York City
Here are the forum rules you ignore.

"If you consider yourself to be a professional, please act like one! If you just can't resist promoting yourself or your business, or you think bashing your competitors and/or their products is the way to do business...


Stop the Self-Promotion![/b]
It is NOT ACCEPTABLE[/b] for you to create posts thinly disguised as an innocent discussion when in fact they are nothing more than a promotion for your business.

Nor should you be directing your customers here for the sole purpose of touting how wonderful you are.


Some Guidelines:[/b]

Not Necessarily Self Promotion...[/b]
If a dealer OCCASIONALLY posts news about what is going on in their business, it's not self-promotion.
If a private individual is enthusiastic about a brand and talks about it a lot, it's not self-promotion.

Now for what we do consider self-promotion:[/b]

If you're in the business and you continually create posts to talk about your business, you're self-promoting."
----------------------------------------------------------------

It's laughable to think my posts have anything to do with Brodmann. What would I have to gain? Of course if I was in the piano business as you once claimed....I almost fell off the piano bench when read that one.

As a NON DEALER I can talk as much as I want about my opinions about Piano X. When a dealer does it, even if he's saying customer Y said such and such, it's called self promotion.

Do you think when Steinway says pianist X says all these great things about Steinway, it's not self promotion?

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#1157959 - 03/05/09 04:47 PM Re: brodmann [Re: pianoloverus]
birchy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Vancouver
pianoloverus, your signal to noise ratio isn't particularly good.

Let people talk about pianos, whether they sell them or not. If someone puts out an untruth, the knowledgable core group here will have the grill warmed up quickly. If someone is out of line, moderators will take care of it. If you don't like the moderators' sensibilities, then you have some decisions to make.

My sense is that reasonable members find your continual hectoring of others embarassing, and a real detriment to the environment here.

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#1157965 - 03/05/09 04:52 PM Re: brodmann [Re: pianoloverus]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10431
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
I challenge anyone to click on my name is any of my posts and then click on my post history. Read as many as you wish. they are all there.

Then do the same for Norbert.

You will find that the majority of Norbert's posts promote him and the brands he carries. While I certainly express my opinions I show no such bias.

Norbert, you consistant push the envelope. Soon, it will burst.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#1157998 - 03/05/09 05:42 PM Re: brodmann [Re: Steve Cohen]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19199
Loc: New York City
birchy:
I sent you a PM but don't know if it ever arrived. It should answer your concerns.

I notice you and Norbert are both from Vancouver and you own a Steigerman. Are you perhaps one of his customers?

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#1158000 - 03/05/09 05:45 PM Re: brodmann [Re: pianoloverus]
birchy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Vancouver
I didn't get a message.

After a long search I did buy a piano from Norbert. It has worked out well.

Have you met him?

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#1158018 - 03/05/09 06:11 PM Re: brodmann [Re: birchy]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
From birchy:

Quote:
Let people talk about pianos, whether they sell them or not.


birchy, I am with you here.

When dealers are talking about their brands I find it more interesting than threads like these:

Quote:
Do you try and let gases out before a long recital


thumb

schwammerl.

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#1158035 - 03/05/09 06:36 PM Re: brodmann [Re: birchy]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19199
Loc: New York City
[quote=birchy]I didn't get a message.
[/quote

I tried PM you twice and the message didn't go through. Your profile seems to indicate you do accept private messages. If you want to PM me with a test email maybe I can "reply".

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#1158073 - 03/05/09 07:50 PM Re: brodmann [Re: schwammerl]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19199
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: schwammerl
From birchy:


When dealers are talking about their brands I find it more interesting than threads like these:

Quote:
Do you try and let gases out before a long recital


thumb



Well, that's not exactly high praise. Where would you rate the infomercials with respect to the "Washing Hands after Playing the Piano" thread?

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#1158097 - 03/05/09 08:37 PM Re: brodmann [Re: Upscale Piano Lessons]
Diaphragmatic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: Upscale Piano Lessons
Hi Rod, Hi Jonathon,

Playing a Brodmann and posting on Pianoworld are both new to me. I will read the rules again to see if there's a time limit on responding to a thread. If I've made an error, my bad, I apologize to you and the community.

With that said, I think that you might consider a world where neophytes are welcomed and not unduly criticized or ridiculed for not being totally up to speed.

I thought this was going to be a nice, friendly place to talk about pianos... oops... STUPID ME!

Jonathon,

I noticed that Brodmann is not included in your product line: Could this be the reason for that three-year-old pebble in your shoe?

smirk



I'm Sorry this is a somewhat dated response but I just noticed this post and felt compelled to respond.

Upscale Piano Lessons,

I'm not sure what you are talking about..

I have no problem with Boradmann piano's. Actually, I have heard and said good things about them (please check my previous posts).

..and If you feel you were "unduly criticized or ridiculed" by me simply stating this thread was started 3 years ago then I'm not really sure what to say..

For whatever its worth, I hope you don't pass judgement on this site so quickly..


Edited by Diaphragmatic (03/05/09 09:59 PM)
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#1158132 - 03/05/09 09:46 PM Re: brodmann [Re: Diaphragmatic]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14101
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
To bring in some fresh air.....

Perhaps it would be nice to hear from some others here about the pianos they carry and are proud of.

Of particular interest would be those that are relatively new on the market, are creating considerable consumer buzz in a short period of time, offering a line at least up to semi-concert grands and are being consecutively upgraded by Larry Fine in his Annual Supplements.

Wondering if Steve Cohen's grey-market pianos would perhaps make for a good candidate....

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (03/05/09 09:49 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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