Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum I am in so much pain please help!!!!!

I posted several weeks ago about pain in my arm and hand after starting piano lessons. It is now my entire Trapezoid muscle and shoots pain to my elbow which radiates pain to my hand. I don't actually think that it is the piano playing causing it, but rather too much computer time (I work 10-12 hours on the computer each day), but I think the piano time is agravating the over use at the computer, but I can't change that with my job, and I'm not in pain until I start piano practice.

I had a severe case of whiplash from a car accident about 10 years ago, and this is the closest thing to that pain I have ever experienced.

I am hurting so bad, can't practice and certainly don't want to quit, but not sure what to do. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

First question: Are you using a mouse, and if so, with which hand? Also, where is your keyboard and mouse? Is it at desk height?

BarbVA,

I'm a Doctor of Oriental Medicine and I work with this kind of thing a lot. Unfortunately, there could be a lot of factors and I can't diagnose from what you've said so far. The good news is that this is almost certainly fixable.

(Do you mean the trapezius muscle, in the upper back/shoulder/neck?)

An acupuncturist can most likely help you.

Do you have a chiropractor-- a GOOD, low-force one? Or an osteopath? Most likely you have misalignments that are contributing to this pain.

There can be extremely subtle aspects of piano technique that are hard to see, things you may be doing to hurt yourself that are not obvious to your teacher. I wish I could see you playing because during the years that I taught these things came up and I have some ideas about what might be happening. I've been through severe tendinitis myself at the piano and was able to get better. Now I find that playing the piano helps to keep up my upper-body strength to do bodywork for my patients, and prevents pain in my hands.

Whatever else you do, please carefully observe yourself at the piano and try to ensure that all your joints are in as neutral and easy a position as possible-- not overly relaxed and floppy, but not under strain. If something hurts, it is probably wrong. Chances are you will have to make some changes in the way you use your body.

Look into:
Taubman Approach for piano
Egoscue Method for the body in general

Gosh, if you're working at the computer 10-12 hours a day, how in the world are you managing to practice piano at all?

Elene Gusch, DOM

BarbVA,

The best advice which can be given you already know. You should see your family doctor; an internet forum is hardly the place to seek medical advice. Best wishes.

W

If the pain is bad and it sounds like it is, get it checked out by your doctor, maybe have a few days break from the piano and maybe check your posture. I am sure some of the teachers here would have some good advise on that.

You really need to see a doctor. And yes, you will have to stop--- something. At least for awhile. That is what the pain is telling you. If you try to force your way through it, or ignore it, it is likely to keep getting worse and also will take longer to heal.

Working with a piano teacher who understands how to help you avoid keyboard injuries (not all of them do) could be a big part of the solution for you. They can see you as you can't see yourself.

The computer keyboarding at work sounds like a big contributor, as you describe it. Ergonomic workstations and devices to minimize RSI can help. Elene's suggestions are excellent. But, unless you stop the continuing process that's causing the injury, you cannot expect anything different to occur.

Please don't put off seeking help

Oh, I wish I could help. I've had pain from mouse overuse a few times, but not quite that bad. I hope you can find a doc or some other professional who can help without depriving you of piano for very long. You've done so well at it and I know you don't want to have to take too long of a break now. Good luck.

I'm so sorry to hear of your pain, and can definitely relate to it. I type about 7-8 hours a day for my job (medical transcription), and pain/soreness is a chronic problem for me as well. What I do is have an ergonomic setup where I'm sitting up higher than the keyboard (contrary to most advice to sit level). I just feel less strain leaning down into the keyboard. With both my computer and piano keyboard, I have a light-action keyboard. Heavy-weighted keyboards usually puts more strain on the hands and muscles. Sometimes I just take some Advil and have a good cry, but these other things can help. I'm grateful I haven't gotten carpal tunnel syndrome - yet, but my cousin who's a piano teacher has that now (we both have thin wrists and a delicate bone structure), and she has learned the Alexander piano technique, which she thinks has been a help. Take good care, and hope you find some relief soon. http://www.alexandertechnique.com/musicians.htm

Elene is right. Find yourself a good Taubman or like teacher ASAP.

Hi again,

I checked back to see what other suggestions people had. I'm interested in Elssa's mention of Alexander Technique. It isn't specifically for piano, but it is one possible way out of this kind of problem. Elssa, often what appears to be carpal tunnel syndrome is coming from the neck, or neck and shoulders, not really the wrist, and Alexander thinking would be extremely likely to help.

I just wanted to comment on the idea of seeing one's family doctor. That MIGHT be helpful, especially in terms of getting referrals to physical therapy, etc., but the typical family-practice MD is not trained to deal with this kind of issue and could not offer much besides ibuprofen and rest. There are individual exceptions, of course.

Anyway, with any luck, it will turn out that there is something reasonably obvious that you are doing to cause this and as soon as you find it you will be able to start getting better right away.

Elene

I experienced similar problems many years ago when my job required me to use the computer every day most all of the day.

These problems dissappeared gradually over a period of weeks & months after I switched from using a mouse to using a track ball instead. At the same time I also started using keyboard shortcuts whenever possible instead of using the trackball. This was beneficial in many ways...it all but eliminated the repetitive movements required to use the mouse....it split the work load across all of my fingers instead of the 'mouse finger'....it was more efficient (i.e. a keystroke or two instead of having to zoom in on a point on the screen), etc..

I still use the computer most every day and since teaching myself keyboard shortcuts and using the trackball I'm happy to say I've not experienced the kind of pain you described in over 10 years.

Thanks for all the advice and support. I'm going to research the methods suggested, and I've rearranged my office desk (putting the monitor in front of me instead of to the side) and laying off the piano for a couple of days, if that doesn't work its off to the doc, but I'm not holding out much hope from the doctor.

I am so sorry to hear that you are in pain. I have to agree it is probably your computer and not your piano. I had/have a similar problem. I went to physical therapy and I was afraid they would tell me to stop playing. But both the primary care dr. and the physical therapist said it was due to the computer. The physical therapist actually said that there are three groups of people that she see's that have good posture. they are dancers, horseback riders and you guest it pianist. Well my posture at my piano is good now b/c my new teacher corrected it. You might want to have someone do that for you.

This is what helped me. 1. I had someone evaluate and correct my work station. 2. started physical therapy. 3. I started making a point to get up and move through out the day, i even started running up the stairs at work (four flights and I am up to 4/5 reps). and I started doing about 1/2 hour workouts at home. I definately have made some good progress. It is very important to be aware of and correct your posture as soon as you notice it is off- even if you are sitting watching tv. I know I start my day off fine but a few hours in and I start slouching and leaning on my arm. If you are spending that much time one place it's easy to do.

It also helps to heat a healthy diet. I dont know if any of this helps. I had RSI for about 15 years and am now only finding relieve because I am putting a more serious effort into getting better and its working.

I hope you find some relief from your pain soon!

It's not the computer or the piano; it's you. Years of bad posture, decaying physical fitness and lack of attention to the signals your body was giving you have put you here. There is no pill or surgery that will undo all of that in a short period of time. Go see a sports medicine doctor (not a chiropractor, a surgeon or a GP), get any phsical problems fixed if possible and then get into physical therapy and do what they tell you to do. Get to the gym, hire a personal trainer, lose weight and build up your overall strength. In time you will get better. You will stay better as long as you don't fall into the same bad habits.

I think I've told you my story before. My pain got to the point where I could not lift a glass of water in my left hand. After about 3 months of physical therapy, changes in my posture at work, changes in my posture at the piano and a year of dilligent work in the gym, I can play the piano as much as I want. I can also play guitar for about a half-hour at a time. I no longer experience pain when doing ordinary activities. Unfortunately, I have torn ligaments in my left elbow so I will never be 100% pain free. However, I have learned how to listen to the warnings my body provides. I ice the elbow the moment I have pain and I know how to do various massages to release tension on the tendons in my elbow. As a nice side effect, I am fitter and trimmer than I have been in years and can do things in my mid-40s that I would not have been able to do in my mid-30s.

I was having problems with my right hand and arm and our health and safety office sent someone out to evaluate my work station. He did rearrange my work area but the best advice I had from him was to start mousing left-handed. I first told him that I wouldn't be able to do that but he urged me to try. It really wasn't that hard once I got used to it and I no longer have any pain. I did reverse the buttons on my mouse (so I'm using my left index finger to click or double-click on things and a right click is really a left click for me).

BarbVA, you don't say where in the world you are, but you might be able to have a look at this and go from there:

Musician's Clinics of Canada

Dr. John Chong has an outstanding reputation for dealing with the difficulties faced by musicians in pain, and I have have heard only good from people who have told me they have been to him. Although one needs a reference from a family physician to see him, it is not impossible that there might be a similar medical service closer to where you are.

Hi BarbVa. I'm so sorry to hear of the pain you are experiencing. I would like to echo the advice of some early responses recommending the Taubman approach. It is remarkably helpful in getting your whole body correctly aligned so that the playing mechanism is completely tension free. Many body work approaches can be helpful--like Feldenkreis or Alexander. But getting your body in correct alignment won't fix the specific problems at the piano keyboard.

Edna Golandsky has worked with injured people at the computer keyboard, as well as at the piano, and has had excellent results.

My best wishes for your improvement!

I would also suggest possibly getting a penpal and pad, instead of a mouse, and an ergonomic keyboard. Can't tell you how much better it is for me now that I have mine....It's a Microsoft keybaord and has this optional piece you can use, which lifts the front of the keyboard. Your wrists are supported and lifted to a very comfortable place, and the keys are angled in a way that is better for your hands also.

I was having some carpal tunnel issues a number of years ago. What worked best for me was to start using a trackball with my left hand, which is my nondominant hand. Also, make sure your pointing device is at keyboard height not desktop height.