I wonder if I'm on the right path?

First some history. When I as 13 years old, I took private lessons once a week for about 10 months, progressing to the point of about 3/4 thru Beethoven's "Sonatina no. 2 in F" before doing one of the dumbest things in my life, quiting piano lessons, something I dearly wish my parents had NOT allowed me to do!

Well... that was 43 years ago!

I continued to play the piano and organ by ear and just for fun, but have not looked at any sheet music since (although to this very day I can play from memory about 90% of the Sonatina up to the point that I learned and I only sit down at a piano perhaps a couple of times a year.) In other words, I have a good ear for music and good memory for playing it.

So now I am retired and regret not being able to read sheet music to broaden the choices that I can play, so....

About a week ago I bought a Casio 76 key keyboard to hook up to my computer and bought Adventus's Piano Suite Premier software.

I really like the fact that with the midi hookup you can see and hear the exercise played, then try it yourself first just to get the notes right, and then using a 'nome to get the timing correct. Unfortunately, although it comes with "500" songs in it's library, many are short "riffs" and they are divided into 5 levels so not a huge repertory. As of this point, I have paused the lessons to really work on memorizing the 9 notes from E to F on the treble staff, and it's not easy to quickly identify them.

So my questions:

1. Anyone else have experience with this software and is it a good way to progress. My thinking is that using software to learn the beginning fundamentals, like note reading, is a lot cheaper than having lessons and hopefully will get my fundamental skills high enough to start reading additional songs, although it would be nice to eventually download midi versions of new songs, like Moonlight Sonata, so I could hear and see now the software plays it before trying it myself.

2. Here is my big concern: I am just starting to learn the basics (again), but even with simple exercises just involving a 5 note range, I find myself not thinking of each note by letter, but rather just playing it relative to where the note is that I am hitting at the moment. So for example, if the notes are middle C, then E, then G, (three notes in a row on lines)my fingers know what keys to play after the C (two notes up and then another two notes up) without even thinking about E or G, so basically I am not even "reading" the E or G.

As someone who has played by ear for years, is it too late or perhaps too difficult for me to try to master reading notes?

3. Another path would be to use the software to learn to "near sight read" the treble staff only, abandoning the bass staff memorization in favor of "fake book" chord playing which would be much easier than pure classical training. I say "near" because I mostly play for myself rather than be asked to accompany anyone, so I don't need to "sight-read" at tempo but would like to be able to learn a new piece, at least the right hand, easily rather than having to labor to find every note.

I have regretted for years not continuing my piano lessons, but now looking at all that I need to learn, it seems like a VERY tall mountain indeed! And I am wondering if trying to learn all that classical music entails is the best path for me to follow.

Any beginners with experience with the software or others with comments are appreciated.....

Hi Scruffies,

Welcome to the ABF forum!

Wow! To retire at 43 years old is a real blessing! You are very fortunate. I’m 52 and have at least 8 more years to go.

Congratulations on your decision to continue learning and playing music. I too have fallen in love with the piano after years of playing various stringed instruments. And, I too have recently started learning to read music. I’ve got a long way to go but I figure it is just going to take some time and effort on my part.

I can, however, play a few tunes on the piano by ear.

Don’t know about software to help learn to read music but here is a great sight-reading practice website I picked up from another member here.

Best of luck to you!

http://astro.sci.uop.edu/~harlow/piano/index.html

Rick

Just to clarify.... 43 years ago I was 13 years old...

Thanks for your welcome Rickster...

Hi Scruffies,

Welcome to the forums.

First off, don't think of how much you have to learn - think of how much fun you will have learning it. You won't possibly have time to be bored!

Second, there are many ways of reading music - and to be honest, matching the notes to letter names is really most important when you try to discuss or analyze music. This method tends to slow down the process of playing from a score or sight reading. Think of how your read words, you don't spell out each word, you read words or patterns of words.

It is more important to know how to read by either notes mapped to the geography on the keyboard, or by intervals.

I suggest putting in time learning to read notes. However, how much focus you put into this depends on what your goals are - do you want to play from sheet music? play by ear? or play from a fake book?

If you want to play from sheet music, then don't worry about getting a late start, just get started.

Rich

Hi Scruffies--

My teacher has about eight adult students, and one is exactly like you. He retired from the military and plays beautifully by ear. He always wanted to learn how to read music, so he has been working with our teacher for about three years. I am so impressed by his progress! We have recitals twice a year (we play for each other, then gladly gulp down a glass of wine or three and eat dinner, potluck style), and she makes him play one piece he has learned by reading, and then he plays one piece he has arranged and plays by ear. I can see how hard it must be for him to go to the music when he has such a gift for playing by ear, but his hard work has opened a whole new world of music to him.

I admire the challenge you've set before yourself, and I'm sure you can do it.

Welcome to the forums!

Nancy

Hey! We're Twins! --- Age-wise that is!

Good to see you getting back to it! I'm new here as well and am hoping to learn to play a bit -- for myself, just cause I love piano.

I guess I'm a bit confused. You say you learned and can still play the Beethoven but apparently you never leaned to read music?

I don't think it's ever too late to do/learn anything, but it will take effort and time and practice. In my case I can read as I played Clarinet for years and have tried guitar a bit. My biggest challenge is with the bass clef and I'm so set in my reading of the treble clef I have sort of a mental block that I have to overcome, but even in the last few days of serious practice I'm beginning to see chinks in the wall and will get it eventually. You will too if you just apply yourself.

Practice, learn the notes, associate the staff position with the finger/key on the piano and don't worry so much about the names....at least that's my thought but I'm certainly not a teacher.

Looking forward to seeing what you do!

P.S. What Casio did you get? I just bought the PX-320 for my piano adventure.

Hey! Denver! Cool!

Thanks everyone for your supporting comments...

The casio that I got was the WK-110 although I only use it as a midi keyboard with the software.

Thanks for the suggestions about letter names (not as important) versus keys on the piano (more important). I find myself during the day visualizing a note on the staff and then saying the letter, but it would be much better to visualize the note as a specific key on the keyboard.

It's only been a week since I started so I will work on note reading, treble staff first, and try to get to seeing a note on the staff as a specific key on the piano, using some of the sight reading tools available on the net. I am going to pause the software lessons going into the bass clef until I get the treble staff well memorized.

I did learn some note reading many years ago, enough to learn a few pieces, but I only took lessons for about 10 months, and that was not long enough retain note reading, and even then I would transition from initially reading notes to play to not really "seeing" the notes, especially the early measures, once I had them memorized.

Thanks again.... we will see how far I get in a month or so..

/Scruffies

Yes to everything that has been said. We all learn differently. Software is not my bag, I'm not around a computer when the mood strikes me to get a little note reading in so-----

I like flash chords. At $4.00 a pack you can scatter them around and whenever you have a few moments get a little study in.

At to seeing the note and knowing it's name. Yes in the same amount of time it takes you to say your name. But, that's only half the story. Read it and play it in the same amount of time it takes you to say your name. Now that is the ultimate goal.

So, flash chords are the first step and sheet music at the piano keyboard is step two.

I enjoy playing from lead sheet music. No bass clef and single note melody does what I want.

Good luck. BTW I'm 74 and took up keyboard Christmas a year ago. Probably will take me a little longer to grasp what's going on, but time I have.

Thanks Majones for your comments.... im 65 and it's not often im the "kid" in the crowd!

As to note names and flash cards, I am thinking it's better to associate a note with the physical key on the piano and not think at all about the letter itself so when looking at music you hit a specific key without really thinking first about the letter of that key. At least, that makes sense to me. You are right about the convenience of decks versus having to use the computer; however, I have found a good practice site that shows a note and a keyboard and you have to use your mouse on the correct key. Just FYI, the site is:

http://www.emusictheory.com/practice/pianoKeys.html

I really like the Adventus software approach since I can go at my own pace, and it demonstrates exactly what playing the notes should sound like, plus its structured, and I don't have the expense and commitment of weekly lessons.

We will see in a month or so how I do....

/Scruffies

Hey that's pretty cool Scruffies. Thanks!

Scruffies, Yes, that's the note reading practice site that I've been using and found it to be quite fun and helpful as well. I was going to send the link to you but saw that you've already found it. Fabulous!

Enjoy and good luck to you.

Key Notes

Welcome...
It's never too late to learn! Have you check out any books on how to read music? and maybe a book on basic music theory? I am taking a music theory class and the teacher has us use musictheory.net. It's a great web site and has drills (they're called trainers on the web site) so you can test yourself.

I think a lot of us at one point felt the regret of not continuing lessons. But, it is what it is and its in the past.
So, let go of the regret b/c all it really does is hold us back and look forward to all the exciting things you have to look forward to in the world of music.

Glad you found us!

On using the software method...
I've got a software system called "The Miracle Piano Teaching System". The software is old DOS-based software, and the keyboard hooks up via a serial interface (keyboard also has MIDI, but the software doesn't support it).

I've recently (about a 8 months ago) started using it again (had to start from scratch), and have gotten about midway through. For starting off, I've found it very effective. However, I got to the point where the music in the lesson pieces got boring, and wanted to expand a bit. So I'm in limbo with around half of the 40 lessons completed. However, back around last November I bought a fully-weighted digital piano keyboard, and have been having a blast with that. I think I've gotten about all I can out of the software method at this point, and have branched off into using fake books, along with a few of the easier classical pieces I've downloaded. Also, it is a bit more of a challenge when you are playing a piece without the software looking over your shoulder -- you have to get to a point where you know if you are playing it right (so a proper comfort level with various key signatures, and chords, etc).

Another fun diversion was a book I picked up called "How to play piano despite years of lessons". It takes you on a slightly different course (similar to playing from lead sheets), but is educational in its own right.

As far as learning note names, it will come with on its own after enough playing. I've found that it helps to concentrate on only certain reference notes, such as where all the C's are. Also, the "G" symbole in the upper clef circles the G line, and the two dots on the F symbol in the lower clef surround the F line. So keeping that in mind helps a bit too (and it also helps to memorize that part of the alphabet backwards, so you can count back if you need). But I do agree with what was mentioned earlier, that most of the time you will be using relative positioning -- finding the initial note in the sequence, then counting the number of steps up or down from there.

thanks for the suggestions...

Derekp, I think the software I am using will teach me the basics but as in your case the repetory of available songs at various skill levels is limited, so I am sure the utility will run out at some point.

As your comments hightlighted, there is a big decision point concerning "fake book" music with lead sheets and chords, or, classical scores that require very high profeciency in both scales. Right now I am working on treble staff which is needed in any case so we will see how that goes before deciding if I want to invest in sheet reading bass clefs as well.

I really like the tools that software offers when learning a piece, especially to see AND HEAR how the timing works when the software plays the piece, and be able to see and hear how you play it. Of course, the disadvantage is that you don't use a piano but rather a midi keyboard, so you lose the touch and sound that a real instrument offers.

For those of you who have teachers...

Do you video lessons?

If you are working on some difficult measures (timing or fingering), how do you record what the teacher is teaching so you can refer to it during your practice sessions the coming week? Do you just have to try to remember how its supposed to sound?

/Scruffies

I just remembered another trick you can use. Go to a site like www.mutopiaproject.org where you can grab both the PDF sheet music, and also the midi files that match. Then use a software midi player that allows you to change the tempo of the piece, and lets you play / loop a section of the song. First, you will get the feel of how the song goes. Then play each section that you are having trouble with through the midi software, at a slow enough tempo. Let that section keep looping, and then start playing along with it. After a few times through you can adjust time timing on the software to bring it up to speed. Then you get at least part of the same benefit as you would from using the software based lessons. I've done this before when I needed help with getting the timing down right.

THANKS Derekp for posting that link!!

I am not ready yet to expand beyond the software that Ive got, but I have been worried about "what comes next" and having access to lots of possible pieces with midi files is perfect.... thanks again! It's now bookmarked for when I need it.

/Scruffies