Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
153 registered (acollins, accordeur, ajames, 36251, 50 invisible), 1656 Guests and 21 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Topic Options
#1167285 - 03/23/09 12:43 PM adding weight to hammers
msks Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 228
Loc: lawrence,KS
I am working on a Steinway "D" on which someone put very light hammers. they will not check right and the DW is 25GMs.... As they are still new I am not keen to change them yet due to the cost... I have tried adding weight with the office binder clips on the shanks and it helps a lot. However it looks weird and takes several per note What other methods are approved and not to difficult?

Top
(ad PTG 757) The Value of PTG Membership
The Value of a PTG Membership
#1167353 - 03/23/09 03:23 PM Re: adding weight to hammers [Re: msks]
James Senior Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/08
Posts: 342
Loc: England

I'm only an amateur so my reply is based on limited experience:

25gs is very very low. I suspect there may be more than light hammers wrong for a 25g DW. It almost sounds as though this action not only has light hammers, but has also been heavily weighted in the front of the keys for a previous set of heavy hammers, and had shanks with the wrong knuckle distance installed.

I'd check to see how many leads are in the keys, and measure the knuckle distance. Either way, with the current setup, you're probably looking to double the weight of those hammers. Have you weighed any of the hammers, Stanwood strikeweight style?

I've heard of using lead wire wrapped around the shank, but would also be interested in hearing alternatives.

Top
#1167386 - 03/23/09 04:03 PM Re: adding weight to hammers [Re: James Senior]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4223
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

One alternative would be to the lead tape I use to balance my tennis racquets.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

Top
#1167492 - 03/23/09 06:50 PM Re: adding weight to hammers [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Peter Sumner- Piano Technician Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 852
Loc: San Francisco
IMHO the light hammers you describe won't give you the sound of a model D anyway.
If the client doesn't know the difference that's OK.
But this piano is only a D in name.

Cut the clients losses and fit a set of NY hammers...making sure the shank is the appropriate one...with the kind of crap that's been done to this instrument you can't take ANYTHING for granted.

Suggest to the client that they may consider suing the technician for 'whatever' that might concentrate their mind on doing a better job in future.
What IS going on out there?
Can anyone enlighten me?
_________________________
Peter Sumner
Concert Piano Technician



Top
#1167501 - 03/23/09 06:55 PM Re: adding weight to hammers [Re: Peter Sumner- Piano Technician]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4223
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Desperation for employment perhaps?
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

Top
#1167509 - 03/23/09 07:14 PM Re: adding weight to hammers [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
The best course of action is a new properly fit set of hammers and maybe shanks as Peter mentions by a qualified technician. Who knows what else this other "tooner" did to the piano besides this?
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1167557 - 03/23/09 09:11 PM Re: adding weight to hammers [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2466
Loc: Olympia, WA
Pianotek sells lead wire for weighting hammers. I've never tried it but I've heard of others doing it. Maybe someone here has some experience with it.
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

Top
#1167591 - 03/23/09 10:08 PM Re: adding weight to hammers [Re: rysowers]
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1530
Loc: Old Hangtown California
Lead wire from PianoTek is complementary to the Stanwood hammer weighting process. It is better to drill a hole in the hammer molding, insert and sweadge the lead to secure it - for the finished look. Yellow glue will also hold it in. At the diameter of the PianoTek wire, a length of lead wire matching the width of a average hammer molding weighs approx 0.6g
Let us know how many key leads are in the lowest bass and if they are evenly graduated to the treble.
I agree that there is more going on here than light hammers. As a typical bass hammer weighs about 11 grams and should get about 55 to 60 g downweight in the SSD. Your hammer weighs less than 5 grams at this rate. It is not within my imagination to picture removing more than half of a hammer and have a functional piano but there is always a first.
You should also have some serious regulation issues.
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

Top
#1167622 - 03/23/09 10:51 PM Re: adding weight to hammers [Re: Gene Nelson]
Dale Fox Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 1073
Loc: Nor California Sacramento area
You did not mention anything about how the keys are weighted. Very light hammers are one thing but I am having trouble fathoming how DW could be only 25gm with even the lightest set of hammers unless there is a bunch of lead in the fronts of the keys. I dread asking the question, because I don't want to unintentionally insult, but are you sure you are measuring downweight properly?

As to back checking issues. Even with excessively light hammers the rep springs would need to be adjusted to compensate for the lack of weight. Hammer weight is not likely to be the only problem in this case. Probably a major lack of basic piano action regulation is the leading cause of these issues.
_________________________
Dale Fox
Registered Piano Technician
Remanufacturing/Rebuilding

Top
#1168110 - 03/24/09 05:36 PM Re: adding weight to hammers [Re: Dale Fox]
James Senior Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/08
Posts: 342
Loc: England
Gene, I like the sounds of what you said as wrapping wire or tape around shanks/hammers would not look good.
I also wondered if it would be possible to glue flat pieces into the square notch on the back of most Abel style hammers:


What glue could you use to do this? What could stick lead to a flat surface?

Top
#1168159 - 03/24/09 06:57 PM Re: adding weight to hammers [Re: James Senior]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4223
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

5-ton epoxy would do the trick.....
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

Top
#1168173 - 03/24/09 07:17 PM Re: adding weight to hammers [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Why in the heck add weights to a Steinway D?

The first thing to do is to figure out FOR SURE what is going on here and work from there. It could be a serious sticking action problem, tight key bushings, tight hammer flange bushings, a horrible regulation job and many other possibilities.

Start from scratch and work your way through it before you do anything else possibly making things worse.

Personally, the last thing I would do, is add weight to the hammers on a D. Assuming, it is, the hammers, I would replace them with the proper size and weight hammer.

What you should probably do, is to get a good tech in there to assist you with any decisions that you may need to make. They can figure out what is going on fairly quickly.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1168203 - 03/24/09 07:51 PM Re: adding weight to hammers [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
James Senior Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/08
Posts: 342
Loc: England
Hi Jerry,
I think everyone is already in agreement that there's a lot more wrong with this piano than just light hammers, if, indeed, the 25g DW measurement is even correct.
Like many threads, it has moved on a bit. The topic is simply adding weight to hammers.
I want to work on a set next week were the strike weights do not follow a nice curve. Whilst some may need less weight, others need a bit more, but only a few 0.1gs...

Don't worry! No-one is suggesting that the OP doubles his hammer weight :-)

Top
#1168220 - 03/24/09 08:29 PM Re: adding weight to hammers [Re: James Senior]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
wink
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!

Trade Regrets:
Barry "Bear" Arnaut

(ad) Yamaha
Yamaha
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) Piano Music Sale - Dover Publications
Piano Music Sale
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
You must remember this...
by pianoloverus
Today at 11:00 AM
Best way to learn Czerny
by Medden
Today at 10:47 AM
Setting up the room
by cullam
Today at 10:18 AM
Saint-Saens 2nd concerto - best edition (fingering)?
by Barly
Today at 07:09 AM
Music reading apps for iPad that use mic
by Artur Gajewski
Today at 03:02 AM
Forum Stats
77024 Members
42 Forums
159314 Topics
2340279 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission