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Has anybody noticed how the very mention of JS Bach ... and like shrinking spiders we have no legs to counter the mighty Baroquian. We bow in gormless wonder before the dazzling organist chappie ... label him with grandiose appellations ... Master of Harmony and Counterpoint ... and treat his WTC as the noblest of spiritual drinking holes.

Is there anyone out there who’d like to do a bit of Bach-bashing?

I’m presently playing Bach’s Prelude and Fugue XXI (WTC I) in
Bb major (penance for not having mowed the lawn this week) ...
and have to say that the staid repetitive format ... loaded with wisps of contrapuntal outline (but so lacking in emotional content) is wearing thin ... just a case of setting up a scalar motif and then grinding out a series of tweaked progressions.

Thank goodness for Bach’s progeny ... Rachmaninoff and Gershwin!!

Anybody else want to let their hair down?

PS Remember chaps ... we’re not talking organ or symphonies ... this is a Piano Forum.

Dang misleading thread titles!

btb, I thought that a Bach-bash would be like a beer bash—a festival, a celebration of Bach and his music.

But if we're listing his progeny, don't forget Chopin!

Steven

I did, too.

I treat most of Bach´s preludes & fugues as technical exercises, as I sometomes find it hard to find emotional content within them (well, if you´re used to romantic composers anyway). I just don´t like playing him that much, and I can´t stand to listen to recordings of him, that´s just the way it is. Not my thang. So take that, in your face Bach, I bashed you good!

Although I still think he was a master, just not my master.

well, WTC - is indeed kind of dry.. but so very clever.

here's a plug for the organ works. wow.

back to your baash.

i agree that it sometimes does seem that bach composed to some mathematical formula but i still really like "invention no. 13" and harpischord concerto no 7 first movement

Anyone who finds the WTC kinda dry and lacking in emotional content needs to be banished to the Kalahari Desert.

Try listening to this in a quiet room and then tell me there's no emotional content in Bach:
Prelude and Fugue in C# minor, WTC1
Another version

i need to be practicing that NOW.

Wholehearted agreement jazzyprof!

btb your prose is lovely but I feel so much regret for your lack of appreciation of Bach. There is indeed deep emotional content in Bach. Unlike Romantic period music which candidly expresses tears, joy and pain, Bach is very restrained, which makes it all the more poignant. Bach can be romantic, crashingly dramatic, elegant, sweet, humorous... you name it. It makes me swoon. Every piece I've played is a sumptuous feast of complexity and feeling. I just can't get enough.
I am polishing his D minor concerto (first movement) and it gives me goosebumps and makes my heart beat faster. Don't give up on Bach; you may one day change your mind.

I agree! (sorry, apple. )

I find it amazing that Bach was able to convey such emotion and powerful music, considering the limitations of the era (instruments, key compass, harmonic language, strict rules of composition, etc.).

Just because Bach's music is cerebral doesn't mean that it is lacking in feeling.

Would one of you Bach defenders please describe for me which deep emotion is being expressed in the Bb Prelude and Fugue?

Not all music is designed to tap great emotional depths. The c# minor prelude and fugue? Yes. Bb Major? I don't think so.

Nor do I think a lack of emotion in music is a negative criticism. Some music aspires to be emotional, but some music also aspires to be sublime, entertaining, fulfill a social or religious purpose, or encapsulate a more abstract or cerebral ideal.

It's one thing to admit to not having yet evolved to a state of appreciation of the genius of Bach; there might be hope in such a case.

It's quite another to use a lack of understanding as a "just cause" for bashing! The assumed mantra "I don't understand it; ergo, it's bad." has been the cause of much of the world's ills.

Regards,

Part of the reason you like it so much is because you know it's Bach first. You project your own emotion and admiration into it.

I am no Bach scholar but I think Bach is a reflection of his age and environment. He is an accumulator.

Why does all these great musicians have to be redicovered? Who are today's Bach and Mozart amongst us?

Joy? At least I feel happy when I play it.

I wasn't suggesting that all of Bach's music has a deep emotional content; neither would I say it is supposed to be utterly devoid of feeling.

However, I do feel something when I play Bach: it is a special sort of contentment that I don't feel from other composers.

Sorry, but Bach needs no defenders.

As for the deep emotion being expressed in the Bb Prelude and Fugue, for btb I imagine it is annoyance, irritation, and finally, joy that the ordeal is over!

Not so. For years and years I tolerated Bach as background music. I knew it was Bach; I thought it was "nice" but I didn't really love it or appreciate its complexity. About 4 years ago my teacher put me to work on the Italian Concerto. I can only describe it as delicious. It was so rich, beautiful, interesting and fun to play. I began to listen to more and more Bach. I delved deeper into WTC and suddenly found myself completely addicted. My technique and sight reading took a huge leap.I remember listening to Bach's E major keyboard concerto (BWV 1053) for the first time. When Perahia swooped into those arpeggios in the third movement, I literally whooped aloud.

I am only saying it as part of the reason. I know what you are saying. But remember that men created god .

there are some moments in the WTC that you could accuse of being a bit mechanical.

but hmmm, a couple of example that really aren't... how about the A minor fugue from book one, and the E major fugue from the second book - they're very emotion-laden!

Here's Gould doing the latter (much more slowly than in the version included with his WTC):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mia9woisQZo

And here's Joanna McGregor playing the former. The camera angles at the start are as dizzying as the treatment of the subject later

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpz9Y_TUipk

Obviously rubato, dynamics, and such expressive tools are less of a feature in baroque music than in classical and romantic music etc, but rather than removing emotion I think you could argue that it sort of distills it.

Ha, maybe you could make a comparison with British and American attitudes to complaining. An American will say to a waiter "hey ya lousy bum, i ordered my steak an hour ago, you better get it here on the double or I'll kick your ass!" ; a Brit will say "I say, if it's not too much trouble, might you check with Chef whether he'll have a moment to see about my steak? That would be awfully decent of you!"

The Brit expresses himself in a more measured tone but the message is the same, within the contexts of the established conventions. He's no less hungry and he expects the same reaction in the waiter!

Debussy and Chopin spell out which direction your heart-strings are being pulled in; Bach's approach is more analytical but the elements are there I think.

please don't get me wrong.. dry is relative and dry is good. - i adore the WTC... God forbid that anyone think i not appreciate it for it's genius.

Nah, we know better than to do that.

I know this was meant as tongue-in-cheek hyperbole, but treating a waitperson abusively isn't a good idea anywhere—unless one wants that steak served with special ingredients or a secret sauce.

Steven