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#117496 - 08/01/06 01:37 PM Re: King of the Hill
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14065
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
Could it be that you were perhaps worried that the MrsSV thread could topple the King of the Hill thread? \:D

...but this rumor should easily spark enough debate to add a few more pages and keep KOTH safely ensconced on top.

My hunch is that IF Yamaha outsources vertical production to China (and I'd love to hear that rumor confirmed by a Yamaha dealer), it won't make a dent in their sales. Name recognition and brand image counts for so much more, and I suspect that the vast majority of Yamaha upright buyers would never even think to ask where the pianos are manufactured. I would think that you'd have to see a sustained drop in quality for a long time before Yamaha started suffering any ill effects from such a move, and there's no reason to believe that would occur. [/b]
Nah, I already had her by over a hundred posts, and that thread has dropped off the front page. :p
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#117497 - 08/01/06 01:40 PM Re: King of the Hill
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14065
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Cohen:
I think that, if true, it will cost them significantly.

Their competitors will be sure to point out the country of origin. And, there is definately a gereral perception that the Chinese-made products are of lesser quality than those of the USA and Japan. Even the Indonesian-made pianos have a better reputation.

I'm not saying that it is justified, only that it will be a factor. [/b]
You don't think the Cable Nelson stuff has been a trial run to tweak the factory?
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#117498 - 08/01/06 01:50 PM Re: King of the Hill
seebechstein Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 1085
Loc: houston
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
Name recognition and brand image counts for so much more, and I suspect that the vast majority of Yamaha upright buyers would never even think to ask where the pianos are manufactured. [/b]
Monica, can I reason that you would think that Steinway could move their production to China and they would suffer no loss of customers, since the customers are so attached to the name recognition?

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#117499 - 08/01/06 02:07 PM Re: King of the Hill
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 18091
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
No...and I was careful to make a distinction between upright and grands here. I agree that Steinway outsourcing to China would severely hurt their business; ditto for Yamaha outsourcing their grands. BUT...I'm still not convinced that outsourcing Yamaha uprights would. I'd argue that the majority of people buying Yamaha uprights are first-time purchasers, most of whom are not going to do a lot of research or read the Fine book or come here, and for these people name recognition is probably going to count more than details about manufacturing.

Steve did make a good point that Yamahas' competitors would make sure to bring up the point of origin. I hadn't considered that, but I guess I'm not persuaded that even that would hurt sales too much. Most uprights are made in other countries, so I can see a lot of purchasers thinking "China? Indonesia? Japan? What's the difference?" They may be discomfited by the competitors' remarks, but they will in the final analysis be comforted by the fact that at least they have HEARD of Yamaha pianos.
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#117500 - 08/01/06 02:14 PM Re: King of the Hill
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14065
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by seebechstein:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
Name recognition and brand image counts for so much more, and I suspect that the vast majority of Yamaha upright buyers would never even think to ask where the pianos are manufactured. [/b]
Monica, can I reason that you would think that Steinway could move their production to China and they would suffer no loss of customers, since the customers are so attached to the name recognition? [/b]
There have been a lot of Bostons sold over the years based primarily on the cache' of the Steinway name. How many Boston owners knew or cared that their piano was built by Kawai?
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#117501 - 08/01/06 03:39 PM Re: King of the Hill
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14065
Loc: Louisiana
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#117502 - 08/02/06 06:47 AM Re: King of the Hill
Rich Galassini Offline
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Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 10328
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
 Quote:
My hunch is that IF Yamaha outsources vertical production to China (and I'd love to hear that rumor confirmed by a Yamaha dealer), it won't make a dent in their sales.
[/b]

They have been using Chinese built actions in the USA production verts for some time now. They don't play well in comparison to what else is available in the price range,but they do sell a few of them.

In the entry level piano, I tend to agree with Monica. It could play like a truck, but if it looks pretty, they will still sell a few.
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#117503 - 08/03/06 01:41 AM Re: King of the Hill
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
You magnificent bastard.
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#117504 - 08/03/06 10:09 AM Re: King of the Hill
Piano Gal Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 289
Loc: West US
Yamaha pianos, in my opinion, are work horses and are good on stage, but in a home, no way!!! They lack dynamics and are to harsh/loud. They are good on stage because of the loudness. You could put a yamaha on an outdoor stage for days and it will stay in tune, but a Steinway on an outdoor stage and it will lose it's tune in an hour. What does that mean? Is yamaha better? Is steinway crud? NOPE!!! Yamaha is built like a work horse and steinway and others/baldwin, mason, ec., are better in homes. It's like driving a SUV, do you really need to buy a tractor, when a lexus can do the job?
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#117505 - 08/03/06 12:00 PM Re: King of the Hill
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14065
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Galassini:
 Quote:
My hunch is that IF Yamaha outsources vertical production to China (and I'd love to hear that rumor confirmed by a Yamaha dealer), it won't make a dent in their sales.
[/b]

They have been using Chinese built actions in the USA production verts for some time now. They don't play well in comparison to what else is available in the price range,but they do sell a few of them.

In the entry level piano, I tend to agree with Monica. It could play like a truck, but if it looks pretty, they will still sell a few. [/b]
Talking about Chinese production...

Sure, the Yamaha name is its own advertisement, but name will only carry you so far.

Yammie used to own[/b] the middle area of the flute market because they delived superior value and playability (is that a word?) for the money. In recent years the price has shot up for those middle ground Yamaha flutes, production has moved away from Japan for some models and I think their market share has diminished.

Does not that sound a bit like the current situtation in pianos?
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