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#1169292 - 03/26/09 02:38 PM Boesendorfer news
SuperTuner Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 110
Loc: Manhattan, Montana
I just learned this:

http://derstandard.at/?url=/?id=1237228373243


Synopsis:

Yamaha is closing Bosendorfer headquarters at Graf Starhemberg Gasse.
Moving selection room and offices to Wiener Neustadt in March 2010.
Job losses expected.
Yamaha hopes for 2013 to be the first year in black.


I guess I didn't really expect Yamaha to do differently with a company that wasn't making a profit.
_________________________
Elizabeth Heppler, R.P.T.
www.hepplerpiano.com

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#1169296 - 03/26/09 02:51 PM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: SuperTuner]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
SupetTuner,

Further down the page one also talks about Yamaha restructurings:

Quote:
die Klavierwerke in England und Taiwan geschlossen


This would mean Yamaha will then end production in the Kemble factory in the UK?

schwammerl.

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#1169703 - 03/27/09 11:27 AM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: schwammerl]
SuperTuner Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 110
Loc: Manhattan, Montana
No, no production endings. I'm told it has to do with Yamaha sales force. (My German isn't good enough to be sure - I had to ask.)
_________________________
Elizabeth Heppler, R.P.T.
www.hepplerpiano.com

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#1169759 - 03/27/09 01:02 PM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: SuperTuner]
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
The article as translated by Google translator:

===

At Bösendorfer plays short
Staff expects to reduce workplace

*

Vienna - It was not an easy year for his Bösendorfer, Yamaha had the new owners of the traditional piano-maker, a year ago know. Now hit the Japanese in Austria, however, stronger than expected in the Keys. You have the former Bawag subsidiary savings stamped out, after 140 years, the retreat from Vienna.

Bösendorfer has its headquarters in the count Starhemberg Lane with the end of March 2010, told the staff yesterday, Wednesday. The shock to sit deep, the consequences were far reaching, is to hear. Affects sales, management, finishing, show rooms, practice studios, the Bösendorfer Saal. Sales and administration to hike production to Wiener Neustadt. The reduction of jobs is calculated. In Vienna, there are almost 60 employees.

The approximately 100 employees working in Wiener Neustadt in March shortly. The paragraph is even more sensitive caved. For month-end with the running fiscal year are losses of more than three million euros. In the year before, there were more than two million euros. Yamaha mother must Bösendorfer converted to 18.6 million euro impairment, the Group had a few days ago, investors know. Yamaha, the factory at the end of 2007 it was purchased and a capital injection of two million missed.

Yamaha also has losses after a rigorous restructuring prescribed. Managers' salaries are reduced, the piano works in England and Taiwan, which manufactures instead in China, Japan and Indonesia is concentrated. In England, nearly 100 employees will lose the job.

The savings rate of the mother proposes to Bösendorfer through. The problems of the farm but they are old, the loss grows from year to year. Yamaha had the purchase of Bösendorfer made a locational warranty. What remains in Vienna, is admittedly only a small salon in the city Bösendorferstraße. The company informed via the emission of the step to serve the "consolidation of operations and hedge the position of Austria". It allows a substantial reduction of fixed costs. 2013, the turnaround succeed. (Verena Kainrath / THE STANDARD-print edition, March 26, 2009)

===
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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#1169944 - 03/27/09 06:15 PM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: pno]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: pno
The article as translated by Google translator:
===
At Bösendorfer plays short
.... Now hit the Japanese in Austria, however, stronger than expected in the Keys. You have the former Bawag subsidiary savings stamped out, after 140 years, the retreat from Vienna.

...The savings rate of the mother proposes to Bösendorfer through. The problems of the farm but they are old, the loss grows from year to year.... ===


Thanks but no thanks, PNO.
The gobbeldy-gook of on-line translators is more apt to get you lost in their translation than to give you any kind of a clear picture of what the original text means.
Good entertainment though, if you are bored.

I suggest you post this kind of stuff on a humor forum somewhere, as it sure is of little use in this discussion.
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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#1169988 - 03/27/09 07:46 PM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: Supply]
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
Originally Posted By: Supply

Thanks but no thanks, PNO.
The gobbeldy-gook of on-line translators is more apt to get you lost in their translation than to give you any kind of a clear picture of what the original text means.
Good entertainment though, if you are bored.

I suggest you post this kind of stuff on a humor forum somewhere, as it sure is of little use in this discussion.


Welcome but no welcome, Supply.

Agreed. The technician forum is already humorous enough that adding to it isn't necessary. With all these clearly self-righteous people with obviously serious mid-life crisis, who needs a translator? laugh
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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#1169990 - 03/27/09 07:50 PM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: SuperTuner]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
Quote:
No, no production endings. I'm told it has to do with Yamaha sales force.


SuperTuner,

Indeed you may be told it is about the salesforce only, however the article in German say otherwise:

It is about
Quote:
Klavierwerke
and
Quote:
Fertigungen
. One only says 'Klavierwerke' if it's about 'piano manufacturing' and 'Fertigung' in China ...is literally making in China ...

The article however does not name Kemble specifically but unless Yamaha now also has production capacity in the UK other than for the Kemble pianos, it can only concern Kemble?

schwammerl.

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#1170071 - 03/27/09 11:03 PM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: schwammerl]
Diaphragmatic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 422
Schwammerl,
What is it saying exactly? Is this source reliable? down below looks like some written opinions about the article, do those say anything interesting?

I am assuming you can read German here, if not I apologize.
_________________________
Musically Yours,
Jonathan Hunt

Sales Professional:
Steinway, Boston, Essex, Kohler & Campbell

The Music Gallery
Clearwater, Fl.

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#1170094 - 03/28/09 12:33 AM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: Diaphragmatic]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
Diaphragmic,

Quote:
Is this source reliable?


It is an article from an Austrian newspaper [we are seing the electronic version here] written by one of their journalists.
Wheter or not this newspaper is a reliable source of information I don't know; don't know the newspaper, didn't bring it up here, but it looks like a quality newspaper and not like a tabloid.

And yes you can find below some reader comments on this article.

Personally I didn't read anything interesting or new. It's all about opinions about what went wrong with BÖsendorfer in the past, whether or not the take over by Yamaha will show to be a good deal, whether or not the Austrian goverment should have tried harder keeping Bösendorfezr in Austrian hands, what was in for Yamaha when acquiring Bösendorfer ....nothing more [rather less] than what was discussed here when last year the battle of the Bösendorfer acquisition was announced.

You do not want me to translate all those reader's opinions one by one do you?

schwammerl.

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#1170182 - 03/28/09 10:48 AM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: schwammerl]
Gerry Armstrong Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 214
Loc: Cumbernauld, Scotland
Here's a link to an article in the Guardian here in the UK about Yamaha Kemble.

There are very few details but at least it's in English!! smile

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/mar/21/kemble-pianos-yamaha-closure

_________________________
Gerry Armstrong

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#1170246 - 03/28/09 12:58 PM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: Gerry Armstrong]
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
Survival of the fittest.
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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#1170935 - 03/29/09 05:22 PM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: pno]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
The title of this newspaper article [translated] "I see little future for Boesendorfer" - comments by ex Boesendorfer boss Roland Raedler - if true, would be more frightning than the announcement of the relocation to 'Wiener Neustadt'.

To summarize, he criticizes the marketing and sales organisation and the lack of focus/presence on/in new markets like China and Russia.

Boesendorfer future

schwammerl.

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#1171281 - 03/30/09 09:44 AM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: pno]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4919
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Originally Posted By: pno
.....

Agreed. The technician forum is already humorous enough that adding to it isn't necessary. With all these clearly self-righteous people with obviously serious mid-life crisis, who needs a translator? laugh


Hey, I resemble that remark! mad
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1171563 - 03/30/09 06:18 PM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: pno]
Josef Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 190
Originally Posted By: pno
Originally Posted By: Supply

Thanks but no thanks, PNO.
The gobbeldy-gook of on-line translators is more apt to get you lost in their translation than to give you any kind of a clear picture of what the original text means.
Good entertainment though, if you are bored.

I suggest you post this kind of stuff on a humor forum somewhere, as it sure is of little use in this discussion.


Welcome but no welcome, Supply.

Agreed. The technician forum is already humorous enough that adding to it isn't necessary. With all these clearly self-righteous people with obviously serious mid-life crisis, who needs a translator? laugh
LoL!!!! Why do people get so worked up and serious???? Honsetly??? That article has little effect on us either way unless you are employed by the Yamaha Corp.

I work for a Yamaha dealer full time so I catch wind of this stuff long before it gets randomly posted on the internet for people to gossip over. Yamaha is Downsizing like the rest of the world. No Surprise. Even before the recession Yamaha was laying off people. Two good friends of mine (both reps) got laid off and now the company only has a few reps covering the U.S. Even Laroy Edwards has a different position with the company as more of a spokes person instead of consultant for tech services.

When upright pianos sales leaped down due to the amount of digitals sold Yamaha shut down the Thomaston factory and shipped it to China. Yamaha has decided to clean house like others. There has been talk of moving the production of the Yamaha GC1 with the GB1 to Indonesia so don't get shocked of that one if it happens.

Lets not forget the amount of ownership that Yamaha has with Schimmel. I heard that its a possiblity that regular Yamaha dealers will be able to soon order Schimmel pianos through Yamaha rather than become a full Schimmel dealer.

I would not be surprised if it comes down to Bosendorfer being built along side the S series and Concert series in Japan. Sales of these instruments could change completely as the idea of Yamaha dropping dealers to sell strictly via internet as this rumor was heard from a past rep. Talk of discontinuing the S series has floated around for a couple years now with redesign of the C series/ Who knows maybe Bosendorfer will get that part of the factory.

All of these may or may not happen. Something I've heard I have doubt in and others I kinda expect. One thing is for certain is that Yamaha will do as they see fit to survive this economy. As of a few weeks ago was another price increase on the whole sale costs to the dealers. Causing more distress on dealers who are trying to survive.


Edited by Josef (03/30/09 06:25 PM)

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#1171573 - 03/30/09 06:35 PM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: Josef]
Marty Flinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 2604
Let us not run away with our selves here. Yamaha stock ownership in Schimmel is very much a minority holding. Yamaha has no say in the management of the Schimmel company or its dealer network. The arangement between the two companies is more of convenience of an entre into each others markets.

The article mentions nothing about any effect on the making of Bosendorfer. It speaks of moving the offices and selection room.

Digital sales had little to do with slow down in upright sales. Yamaha moved its furniture production to Taiwan not China.

It is true that Yamaha has been doing much reorganization for over a year now.
_________________________
Co-Author of The Complete Idiot's Guide To Buying A Piano. A "must read" before you shop.
Work for west coast dealer for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe.

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#1171592 - 03/30/09 07:02 PM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: Marty Flinn]
Josef Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 190
I was stating that is a POSSIBILITY that going to offer more to the Yamaha dealers from Schimmel as well. Although you still have to be a Bosendorfer dealer to order Bosendorfer not just a Yamaha dealer. Unlike the old rules with KImball. So Schimmel would be different. But, they are also pulling weak numbers and POSSIBLY try other methods to sell more product.

At the time of the purchase Yamaha released that they had no wishes to change the Bosendorfer Company. Hence they bought the factory Building which was to my knowledge on lease. The Bosendorfer Hall in New York has shut its doors and we act surprised that Yamaha has moved the offices and one of their selection rooms elsewhere. I believe the one at factory has remained in its place which also serves as inspection room.

I wish you to check the back of a fresh brand new P-22 Yamaha studio. If it says made in Taiwan then I will personally send you a box of Cookies. Check the treble side back post.. If not then the T-118 but the M460's and M560's will say Taiwan. The trusty Useries will come from Japan still as you of course know.

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#1171672 - 03/30/09 09:20 PM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: Josef]
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
Originally Posted By: Josef
Talk of discontinuing the S series has floated around for a couple years now with redesign of the C series.


I would love to see they substantially enhance their C series with higher grade stuff. Whether handmade or not is not my concern. Our local dealer isn't even willing to deal with the S series!
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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#1171704 - 03/30/09 09:56 PM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: pno]
Josef Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 190
Most dealers are not. The cost of interest is very high for a dealer to pay for a piano that sells once in a blue moon. The S series was a treat to play on when I was training at Yamaha in Beuna Park CA.

The new C series has had little promotion. Dealers hardly have any information over the redesign. More Publicity was given when Yamaha purchased Bosendorfer.

The biggest changes were in the C1 and C2. Both scales were refined with vertically laminated bridges (before it was only C3 and up) The Scales were slightly changes giving more power and more sustain. The action Geometry is more refined and voicing has become darker in tonality. Ivorite keys on all models. Also one hefty price increase making it very difficult to compete in the mid range market. I know of several deals lot to Kawai dealers offering a nice product at a sweet lower price.

Both Phil Nation and George Dixson (past yamaha reps)are buddies of mine along with Freddie from Tech services all from Yamaha. They are no longer with the piano division but are still in the loop with news. Also the current Yamaha rep visited the store just before I left for vacation. His exact words over Bosendorfer were, "We want to change as little as possible with them. Kinda like Kimball but with out that copycat stuff in the models. But we want to open up distrubution more."

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#1171755 - 03/30/09 11:49 PM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: Josef]
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
Yes I have the M series C2, which is the new upgraded series. The tone is noticeably darker than its predecessor and the actions feel a bit heavier. I hope they continue to trickle down features from the S series, to give me reason to upgrade.

As for more distribution for Boesenforder, I don't know if it would help. It's not like there isn't enough dealers carrying it. It's not meant for the mass market.
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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#1172059 - 03/31/09 01:31 PM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: pno]
Josef Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 190
Distribution doen't just mean mass market selling. One of the Goals is get the Bosendorfer name more main stream. Your average person will know Yamaha or Baldwin but not Bosendorfer. Few have had the luxury to even try one. They don't want every little Yamaha dealer to stock a Bosie. They want Bosendorfer to be a bigger part of the music society.

I just tuned a new C2 and it is sweet. For comparison, the original C2 scale is now the GC2. Let your ears be the judge.

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#1172358 - 04/01/09 12:10 AM Re: Boesendorfer news [Re: Josef]
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
Originally Posted By: Josef
For comparison, the original C2 scale is now the GC2. Let your ears be the judge.


Josef,

Are you aware of an Artist series of the C models ever available from Yamaha? Someone in another thread mentioned there was an "Artist series" released a couple years ago. Basically they are C series with S series hammers and modified bridges.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1171164/Re:%20My%20Experience%20Playing%20a%20Re.html#Post1171164
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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