Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum How many of your students have only a DP?

I'm an OLD piano student, starting lessons again for the fifth time in my long life. I recently found an excellent teacher and today will begin my 3rd month of weekly one-hour lessons with her.

I have only a Yamaha Clavinova CLP-124, which I bought new in the mid-90s. At my last lesson she told me I showed some promise, but that I could not realize that promise unless I got a good acoustic piano. By "good", I believe she meant a Yamaha grand made in Japan.

Now, I don't think she will kick me out if I don't buy an acoustic grand, but I am upgrading my digital to a Kawai CE200, which should arrive by the end of next week. I'll tell her about it today, and hope that she will not be too disappointed.

She is a very busy and popular teacher, with many years of experience. She told me when I asked, that I am the ONLY student she has without an acoustic piano. It's possible she makes an acoustic a requirement in accepting a student, but she didn't with me.

My question for you piano teachers is, do you require your students to have a good acoustic? And if not, what per cent of your students do not have an acoustic? Also, do you believe that a student's development will be limited by having only a good DP?

Thanks very much.

I have quite a few students with DP's. I am sure they would all like an acoustic grand but for many people it is not possible. I wouldn't dream of insisting that anybody go out and spend thousands on an expensive piano so they can 'realize that promise'. I advise them to get the best instrument they can afford. A lot of the time that means a DP. In fact far more of my students have a DP than they have grands.

Is development limited by having a DP? Well there is no use pretending that a DP can do everything a good acoustic grand piano can. Despite what some will say there is a difference in touch and sound. But then there are differences between all pianos. I know lots of people who have acoustic instruments which are in such a poor state they would be better off with a DP. It's much more common that development is limited by lack of practice. If I were you I wouldn't worry about it. If you are in a position to buy a nice new Yamaha grand then fine. If not then the Kawai DP will do nicely for now.

My question would be: why strap an anvil around your ankles when learning to swim?

It this is your dream, why not give yourself every possible advantage?

There's an order of magnitude difference between the best electric and a good upright, and an order of magnitude difference between the very best upright and a good grand.

I'm not a Steinway salesman, I don't get a commission, but if I were in your shoes, I'd run over to Sherman-Clay (downtown store), talk to Ben Klinger, and look seriously at those beautiful Essex grands. The shorter ones are made, very well, btw, in their China factory, and the 6', which is just about perfect for most homes, is made in Korea. It is a jewel, and with the economy being what it is, you can probably get it for a song.

Just my humble opinion. And you should have been here yesterday afternoon to see young Stephen's face (2nd grader) as he played through his repertoire on the grand.

When you play and practice on a digital piano you are learning a different instrument. You are learning to play a digital instrument. It has a different touch and feel. The same could be said about learning the electric guitar as opposed to learning on an acoustic guitar.

When you play and practice on an acoustic piano (and it doesn't have to be expensive) you are learning the touch and feel of an acoustic piano.

I have always practiced and performed on an acoustic piano. When someone asks me to play on a digital I will usually decline. That is because I don't sound very good on a digital because it has such a different touch, and I'm not used to it.

Why don't you go to a digital piano teacher? This way there is no conflict. I simply consider it a different instrument.

If you want to stay with this teacher then I would buy an old upright and get a piano tuner/technician to do some work on it. It shouldn't cost you too much, hopefully.

Good luck,
Valerie

I think it's going a bit far to say that a digital piano is a different instrument altogether. You can't compare it to say a Classical guitar and an electric guitar. Not only are there big physical differences but they are played in completely different ways. Not so with piano/DP.

The ideal is a good quality acoustic grand. If that's not possible then a good quality acoustic upright. If not that then a good DP. The thing that matters most is the 'good'. A lot of old acoustics are junk and limit progress far more than a DP.

I have a very good DP at home but am fortunate to be able to do most of my practice on acoustics in the practice rooms where I work. It is definitely a different instrument but I still love my digital. Those big crashing chords aren't very enjoyable but for learning the notes, fingering, timing, sightreading, running through old repertioire, and just noodling around my DP is great. Of course polishing a piece and true dynamics requires the real thing but even when I do acquire an acoustic, my digital will be my early morning/late night friend and will always be around.

I would say about 10% of my students have DPs, and their development has unquestionably been limited in comparison to those with even fair-quality acoustics. You can spend $1500 and get a quality used acoustic. You have to spend twice that to get a good-quality digital (that won't retain value and is much, much more likely to break). I have probably the best DP on the market, and I won't touch it unless it's after 11PM/before 8AM. OK for developing muscle memory, and that's about it.

HOWEVER, if that's all you have to begin with, fine. Just cut out all other unnecessary expenses (if possible) and get on an acoustic soon as you can. Unless you want to play video game music, of course.

John, when you say you could get one of those nice (but cheap) Essex grands for a song, how much are we talking about exactly?

In the UK the Essex 155 sells for around £10000. If you want to go up to the 173 you will need over £12000. Even that is not enough for the 6' model you mentioned. I don't teach many students who have that kind of disposable cash, do you?

Even if you can buy one of these Essex grands some will still tell you (quite rightly) that it will not perform as well as a Steinway model B and that it might in fact limit your progress.

Actually, you can get a new grand for roughly 10K that would fulfill the needs of just about any student.

That too is a lot of money, and may price things out of reach for many families. I would remind everyone, though, that often such a price tag only 'prices a family out' because of their priorities. I'm sure there are many families that would buy a 15K car without too much of a strain (grumbling, maybe) who would recoil in horror at the prospect of spending 10K on a musical instrument.

You can spend $1500 and get a quality used acoustic.

I did start my search for a piano to replace my CLP-124 by looking around for an acoustic. I soon realized that I simply couldn't judge a used piano as to its health.

How do you suggest I go about finding "a quality used acoustic" for $1500?

If I were in the Washington, D.C. area I might go to Rick Jones Pianos. But I'm near Seattle..

It is anathema to me to learn how to play the piano on a digital. The whole purpose of learning the instrument, technique, interpretation and all, is to learn how to produce beautiful sound. I would argue that it is not possible to do so on a digital, no matter how sophisticated. There are many good uses for a DP as delineated by Sandy. But it is not a piano, if that is what you wish to learn.
You sound insecure about the prospect of purchasing a used piano, and I do not blame you. But you should trust your ear and not be embarrassed by your inexperience. You might even be able to ask your teacher to try a couple of instruments you have pre-tested. (you might need to pay her for her time, which is a worthwhile endeavor).

pianozuki, I went to Kawai's site and checked out the CE200 — and it looks like a real top-of-the-line choice. I hope that your teacher appreciates the investment you're making in your musical education.

I'm an adult student, not a teacher, so I usually post in the Adult Beginners Forums — and I want to invite you to stop by and share your piano-adventures with us. Trust me, the ABF isn't just for first-time students or youngsters. Lots of us have checkered musical pasts ... and more than a few miles on the odometer.

Thanks, Deb! I should have the CE200 in 7 or 8 days. I'll stick my head in your forum soon.

Dick

Chris, when it comes to the topic of humans, I find myself a slow learner. I was probably in my 50s before I realized that people can afford what they want, and cannot afford what they don't want.

I've had parents who signed their kids up for lessons, grumbling about my "high fees" who then drop them off driving a $60k automobile.

About the Essex. I don't understand why Steinway doesn't put Steinway & Sons on every instrument, and then brand the particular model in the lower right hand corner of the fall board. Are the Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans which are built in the USA, or other countries, not Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans because they weren't assembled in Japan? Then why would a Steinway designed instrument, built with parts supplied by Steinway, not be a Steinway, just because it's built in Japan or Korea or China?

I've had the opportunity to play on each model of Essex, and while the tone is necessarily limited in the smaller sizes, the actions are remarkably good. In fact, if there were any way to squeeze a second grand into the studio, I would choose the 6 ft Essex. It really is good, and at the price point, must be one of the bargains of the century.

Chris - by the way, I wouldn't term the Essex "cheap." Less expensive, perhaps, or less polished, but hardly cheap in either sense of the word.

I think most people who argue against using Digital Pianos have never even tried the higher-end DPs. (they are probably thinking of electronic keyboards like at walmart) The serious DP builders are creating keybeds with the same feel and touch and response as analog pianos. Sure there are differences between an analog piano and a digital piano but there are significant differences between analog pianos too. Differences in feel and sound and tone and ...... and then there's all the messing tuning and space that it takes up and you can't practice quietly using headphones.......



P.S. Dick/Pianozuki that looks like a great piano you got there!

I agree about priorities and that many families will spend money on other luxuries but not a decent piano. But then to be honest some of those kids would not do well even if they had a brand new concert grand. The chances are that they wouldn't practise anyway. It always seems to be the less well off (maybe a little less spoilt?) who take it more seriously. This is of course a generalisation but it is something I have encountered. I teach at a fee paying school where the parents are well off but hardly any of them have a piano. The ones that do never practise much either so it makes very little difference.

Regarding sound. It's true that you wouldn't describe a digital as having a beautiful sound. But then there are many acoustics which sound bad, especially if they are not tuned regularly which often happens.

And what about space? I used to have a grand which was quite modest at 5'10". It was pointless because although it would fit in my music studio it sounded awful. Too overpowering. I ended up selling it because it wasn't appropriate. Even my upright is a powerful beast in my small room. I know a lot of people, some of whom are quite well off, who could not have a grand because they have no room for it. Many can't have any kind of acoustic because it will disturb neighbours and so on. For some the DP really is the only option. And if that's the case I would not reject a student for it.

Kenny, I was writing my post when you posted. Looks like we are sying the same thing.

BTW did you mean me and my piano? If so, which one?

Sorry, I may have confused names... I was referring to the CE200 the O.P. mentioned he had ordered. Looks like a nice piano. I certainly am no expert, particularly on acoustic/analog pianos, but just spent the last month or so researching various Digital Pianos under $1000 to get the closest thing I could to the feel of an acoustic.

Before answering a "Which instrument should I get?" question, I believe it's important to find out several things: What's your goal for learning an instrument? Personal satisfaction? Casual playing with others? Formal performance? What type of music do you intend to play? Is this a casual hobby; a serious hobby; your life's calling? How much space do you have? How much money are you willing to spend? How much time you do intend to spend practicing? There's no one-size-fits-all answer.

Many factors go into the decision. Don't deny yourself the joy of making music on your terms because an instrument isn't "good enough." If you're enjoying what you're doing, but your teacher doesn't like your instrument, go find another teacher.