eweiss

i was curious about your motivation for making this post.. was information like this requested by someone in the forum? Its very unusual to see a post like this. It will be like me posting exercises i assign to jazz students.

I agree that freeplay exercise can be helpful. My question is, is this method progressive? are you going to explore how you can create a theme and do variations.. and develop it rhythmically and harmonically?? Because after students get used to this initial steps of free playing it would help for them to get used to various "musical thinking" to expand their means of expression,

btw think its rude of you to label classical musicians "simply glorified typists who only can recreate what has been written by dead composers of the past." There is so much that goes into their craft and a lot of expression too , I don't pretend to understand it all but at least I have respect for what they do. And I hope you can treat people with the same kind of respect and courtesy that they are extending to you too.

I couldn't have said that better! Most classical pianists can't tie their shoes when it comes to a theoretical understanding of what they're typing. For most, remove the music from the stand and it's like a treadmill without a hamster in it! You may get a few scales and arpeggions from them, possibly in double octaves, maybe some parts of classical pieces they've typed, but that's about it for the most part.

Eweiss has a firm understanding of the typical, garden-variety classical typist, ..er' "pianist".

Hi etcetera,

No one requested this post. I like to share what I know so I offered it here. I see nothing wrong with that. I'm giving something of value (hopefully) and did post in the appropriate forum.

As far as the method being "progressive," the most progressive thing most beginning adult students can do at the piano is to improvise and be in the moment while doing it. This skill is invaluable for it teaches one to trust intuition - a skill I consider to be most important.

Once students can trust themselves and the music that comes out of them, the rest is all downhill!

As far as my "glorified typist" remark, I apologize. I understand the time and commitment that goes into becoming a classical pianist. My response was really directed to Betty P. who freely criticized my video.

It brought down the house over in the classical section. (Interdimensional forum section warp):

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...non-classi.html

These people are off the hook, Dawg!

Look at his signature line. His sharing is just a slightly veiled advertisement. Only $19 and he accepts Paypal.

Wow. You figured me out.

The hostility towards Eweiss is beyond me. People, get a life. Play piano --- be happy!

Oh no!!! He makes a living in the music field!

That's terrible.

How dare he??

If you've ever been to Yosemite, you'll realize that it has a very rugged beauty to it, and in my opinion, Ed's piece captures that feel nicely.


Here's a video Ed created on theme and variations, which he used in response to an imrpov question I had.


I'd rather hear constructive comments about his video lessons instead of hearing about his signature line.

Ed Weiss said: "My response was really directed to Betty P. who freely criticized my video."

I commented Ed, that's constructive criticism, by the way.

When I think of the pieces that music education composers have put to print about majestic things in the United States where we both live, I am amazed at how well the composers have filled their pieces with imaginatively and well-designed sound for certain levels of piano study. What a gift them have!

I think I'll take time to tool around a little to find some of these gems in writing music to share with people who are interested in both our countries natural beauty.

To start with the story of "American the Beautiful", being written in poetry while crossing our country by train is one of the most inspiring creations I have even heard or sung or played. Let's start there with inspiration. I would love to give an appreciation class on this patriotic tribute sometime.

There is music about Lewis and Clark, the Grand Canyon, you name it...it's been written. Let's feast our ears on eyes on this bounty - in Nature and in Music.

I will be working to prepare some really good examples of similar music to Ed's so we can have a rounded out picture of what has come before us, and what we have legacy to now.

Any criticism that is being felt by Ed, or by others in his behalf, was to acknowledge that other composers have been doing a magnificent and memorable job of it for a very long time. I believe that the music and the grandeur of the scene should match. Ed's video captured my attention in the sense of the photos, not the music. That is what making a comment is about. In my opinion, two chords do NOT make a rich, full sound.

As for rugged music, there is that too, and it can be sought as a study area in music. "Magnificent Seven" for instance?

Betty Patnude

I didn't realize there had to be a minimum number of chords to produce a rich sound, especially with New Age. Einaudi's "I Due Fiumi" uses 3 chords, varying between closed and open position. Even with 2 of the 3 chords, I think it would still have a great sound - for example a looping I-IV or I-V.

Betty,

The whole point of my post was to illustrate a "technique." It wasn't to create a masterpiece or give what you call progressive instruction.

The ostinato technique is used in all genres and is an easy way for the beginning student to start improvising.

Many of my own students love it because it helps them quickly "dive in" to music making without having to note read.

That being said, why don't you tool around your own voluminous collection of creative work and offer somthing here instead of criticizing those who do. Wait. That's right. You don't have anything original to offer do you?

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better.

Serendipity, I think you've got it. Now if you actually try doing this, you might have some fun!

From Ed to Betty:

"That being said, why don't you tool around your own voluminous collection of creative work and offer somthing here instead of criticizing those who do. Wait. That's right. You don't have anything original to offer do you?"

I don't know, Ed, who would be the judge of that?

What makes you think I'm criticizing you? I'm commenting. I just think you set the target very low for easy entry into playing something, anything, and to be happy forever after with that much. That is the picture I'm getting of you from all that you say about yourself.

I do see myself as progressive, by the way. Kids get in a year and a half to two years what some kids take 4 or more to get, and there are some who never get what these little achievers eagerly do at piano lessons. I think expectations of our students help them gain confidence in what they will be able to do in the future. Everything isn't geared to the present, just like everything isn't in our future, be need to create enthusiasm and excitement about music, I think. I know the results I get. It speaks for itself.

Ed, don't you get tired of finding fault with me?

You're merry enough, go on your merry way earning the great living you are making. Money has never been my objective - selling is not part of my package - I give music education services in an enrolled tuition program - that's my livelihood and my passion

There's room for all of us as most of us find our customers and clients or they find us. Our reputations are what we earn along with the living style our wages buy for us. We're different people - different in musical pursuit and interests,too, I'm sure - everyone could claim they are different - and should.

I'm currently working on some pieces by Alessandra Celletti from her Golden Fly Suite. Golden Fly #4 has two, and only two, chords, and it is beautiful in its simplicity. It is also proving to be a difficult piece to play well... the trick to making it sound musical is to play delicately and bring the voice of the melody line out over the bass pattern. There is an ethereal beauty to the piece that is mesmerizing.

ewiss,

I have to agree with Betty here somewhat.. whenever you post performance or teaching material on a forum, you are subject people's constructive criticisms.. and you can't expect everyone to tell you that it's great. Most of these criticism are well-intended and people are just trying to help you.

Perhaps it may help to describe in the post what kind of people this lesson is meant for. I am guessing your lessons are meant for adults who are absolute beginners and they don't know anything about the piano. Most people here in the forum have some kind of experience and this lesson might not be relevent for us. I guess that's part of the reason I was curious about your intention to post this.

Betty Pantude,

"I just think you set the target very low for easy entry into playing something, anything, and to be happy forever after with that much. That is the picture I'm getting of you from all that you say about yourself. "

For some adults that's all they need.. and is there anything wrong with that as long as that person is happy? Besides, most adults will probably move on after couple weeks of doing stuff like this.

Betty Patnude makes some good points and I especially like this one:

"I think expectations of our students help them gain confidence in what they will be able to do in the future. Everything isn't geared to the present, just like everything isn't in our future, be need to create enthusiasm and excitement about music..."

I agree with these ideals. However, I think that ideals are not always practical. As a piano teacher I know that many adult students expect instant gratification and I have to find ways of satisfying that, even when I feel it's not the best thing for their growth as a pianist. Without some easy instant gratification each week they wont keep comning back and paying me money so I can make a living. The majority basicly just want to have fun, it's a a hobby and they don't really take it very seriously... they are too lazy or lack the self disiplne to make the effort to achive higher levels, it's not easy... Do I make sense???

Not the same sort of music, but the second half of Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 is made up of about 90% I-V progression. Again, it's the articulate and rhythmic musical passages so full of energy and a characteristic harmony that altogether keep that section going for 6 minutes (or 4 if you're a crazily brilliant pianist ) and you're still left asking for more!

Good concepts, but there's no real structure. Yes I agree with your argument on creativity, but a person cannot apply what they don't know. Victor Woolten said once; Music is a language, languages were created to communicate a message or thought, therefore when you play there has to be a message behind the music. If music is a language, you need vocabulary. Honestly, your example didn't really say anything, it was like a hick trying to say something smart to a group of aristocrats and failing (no offense). For a person teaching creativity, that wasn't very creative, also at the end you messed up a couple of notes. Some good ideas, but it came out as boring and amateurish. And lamentably that might cost you the success of your product. Also, some of your comments were very defensive, that kind of made you come of as a snob, some humility goes a long way. Wish you success on your endeavors

just buy an ad

although what YadielOmar says may sound rude, musicians get these kind of criticisms all the time... piano lessons can be much more brutal than this, but people participate knowing that the teachers are just trying to help you.

I don't have problem with people posting or their music/lessons like this, but if you can't handle criticisms perhaps you should not post videos like this. You can't expect everyone to shower you with compliments, esp since to most pianists will find these material seems very very basic, and this lesson appeals to very limited amount of people. That's why I thought it was important to be clear that this is meant for beginners.

Looks like it became open-season on Eweiss during my tenure in the pianist section!

He has some good ideas, but there not worth paying for, when you can see some really informative videos for free. And from a teachers stand point, he's are going to have a lot of learning gaps (I don't know if that's the correct term) if the lessons are geared more towards creativity then focus on harmonic and melodic colors in a way that the student can express artistically what they want, if that's what your goal is. I'm with etcetra, it's a very limited market to be milking

Yadie,

If you took some time to read my post, this lesson is illustrating a technique. It illustrates how to take a simple ostinato pattern and improvise over it. As far as being defensive, I have nothing to defend. I only respond when I think comments are inaccurate or simply off point.

For example, you said the music didn't say anything. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I have to disagree of course.

I suppose you equate "creative" with "sophisticated" as do most.

Creativity has nothing to do with sophisitcation. In fact, it's the opposite way around. As far as me making "mistakes," that's part of the package. In fact, I love making mistakes. It shows my students that the making of music is far more important than "getting it right."

Of course, if I wanted to polish it up I could. But why waste time?

I'm glad you don't have a problem with it.

Should they take it seriously? Or is having fun more important? I think the latter. As far as self-discipline goes, students will progress and be motivated far more by passion than rote exercises set by many teachers.

Many of my students are able to finally sit down at the piano and play what they feel without sheet music or lead sheets. They rely on intuition and some guidance. Is the goal to create the next Beethoven? Of course not. But at least they are, for a brief time period, one with the music.

Not really, when I mean creativity I'm only talking about creativity... sophistication is a different ballgame. Creativity is derived from the word create ( to produce through imaginative skill; to make or bring into existence something new) to bring to existence something new I need to understand what has preceded my future creation. Also you speak of your students being one with the music, to be one with something you must internalize it, and you can't internalize something you don't fully understand. You have to at least have a basic grasp of what is music, not saying 5 years of classical study, just know the definition of music... You do know the definition of the word music, do you? BTW

"I suppose you equate "creative" with "sophisticated" as do most."

In retrospect to coming of as a snob, case and point.

Also, as etcetra stated there is not much of a market for what your selling, now if you broaden your horizons and cover more tangible material while fomenting creativity then that will be the birth of something worth paying for.

I don't think that there is not much of a market, there are plenty of "learn to play the piano today" kind of stuff out there, and they sell well, if you target it to the right audience. The problem is that most people here have experience on the piano already so its not that helpful. I think most pianists here have noodled around and played simple improv pieces before... i remember doing stuff like this as a high school student and it can be a lot of fun.

I've met a lot of people who were interested in learning piano, and frankly i would rather have some of them learn what ewiss is showing here rather the putting them through some classical/jazz regimen.