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#1176160 - 04/07/09 03:04 PM Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano!
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
So many students would just love to sit down at the piano and play. Yet these same students think you need years upon years of study to improvise successfully.

But that's where they're wrong! What If I was to show you a simple technique that will have you improvising in no time at all. Would that be something you might be interested in? If you answered yes, listen, because what I'm about to share with you will have you creating a rich full sound at the keyboard.

The technique I'm referring to is called the ostinato pattern.

It's not difficult. All you have to do is get the pattern down in your left hand. Then, you simply "jump in" with the right to improvise your own unique melody. A great example of this is in the video "Images of Yosemite" available below.



The problem students sometimes have is maintaining the pattern in the left hand. The reason for this is usually the same - they are playing too fast! There's no reason to. After all, the goal is for you to create your own music. And music is what we want. To get it, you need to SLOW DOWN at first until the pattern is firmly established. Then you add in your own improvised melody.

The music in the above video contains 2 chords. That's it! Just 2 chords and we have all we need to begin our improvisation.

No need to make it any more complicated than that. In fact, problems arise when students try to make something more than what they're ready for. My advice? Slow down, take your time, and you'll be well on your way to successful improvisation.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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Piano & Music Accessories
#1176547 - 04/08/09 07:00 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
Studio Joe Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 1803
Loc: Decatur, Texas
That sounds a lot like what is called 'minimalistic music'.

I could be used for film sound track, but just for listening, it gets boring because it doesn't go anywhere.
_________________________
Joe Whitehead ------ Texas Trax

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#1176624 - 04/08/09 11:03 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Studio Joe]
spacedkadet Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 6
Loc: Romania
Makes me think of Yann Tiersen. Practiced a few of his songs at first, because of the simplicity. It's a very "logical" song, uses about the same 10-15 notes for most of the melody and they come in simple patterns. Good for practicing, but that's about it, as jw said, it wont take you anywhere.

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#1176764 - 04/08/09 02:22 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Studio Joe]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: jw7480
That sounds a lot like what is called 'minimalistic music'.

I could be used for film sound track, but just for listening, it gets boring because it doesn't go anywhere.

Is it supposed to go somewhere?
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1176789 - 04/08/09 03:05 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
Studio Joe Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 1803
Loc: Decatur, Texas
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Is it supposed to go somewhere?


If you want to keep the listener's interest for 3 or 4 minutes.
_________________________
Joe Whitehead ------ Texas Trax

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#1176838 - 04/08/09 04:22 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Studio Joe]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Interest is in the ear of the beholder. Some find long Beethoven Sonata's interesting. Others like a music that doesn't seem to go anywhere.

Isn't the world big enough for both?


Edited by eweiss (04/08/09 04:26 PM)
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1176851 - 04/08/09 04:47 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Interest is in the ear of the beholder. Some find long Beethoven Sonata's interesting. Others like a music that doesn't seem to go anywhere.

Isn't the world big enough for both?


Music is gravitational by nature. Goal oriented notes that are headed somewhere, eventually. The route they take and the changes they experience are music. That goal itself is not music, but the path to that goal is the music.
As broad minded as some of us are, IMO even we expect a musical force in motion to eventually evolve and move to that goal. The "thermodynamics", the nuts and bolts of music, and degree of familiarty of knowing those theories will make the trips to those goals more interesting and more skillfully and creatively applied.


Edited by BJones (04/08/09 04:49 PM)
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


Top
#1176878 - 04/08/09 05:13 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: BJones]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
"If I Were A Rich Man" from "Fiddler on the Roof", is a two chord song, but you never notice it because it's so captivating with the story and the rhythm of the words, and the chromaticism of the melody, it's liveliness and attribution to both Broadway and the movies, the costuming, the village, holds your attention. It's such an emotive piece.

I must say, Ed, I found the scenery lovely to look at, but the music seemed harsh for such natural beauty.

There are improvisation books on the market, one by Kinney, has the teacher playing an accompaniment, and the black notes provide the beginner amply notes upon which to spontaneously compose something that immediately works. Teacher supervises and together they work on imagination pieces of melodies and rhythms and words if using lyrics. Complete thoughts in composing and improvisation which will grow in length and depth over the years of lessons and thereafter. And, the approach is not imitation it is exploration. From an intro like this, theory is just behind the work, explaining what we did and how we did it.

There are teaching pieces written by music education composers that are simple to play, soothing, the outcome musically sounds at a higher level than the music is written.

Some of what comes to mind are "Psalm" by Denes Agay, and "Etude" by Paul Sheftel. There are also lots of 5 finger position changes in pieces, like "Cracker Jack" by Anne Shannon Demarist and Triaditude" and "Exultation" (Myklas) by Robert D. Vandall, "Flashy Fingers by Margaret Goldston, "Ancient Face of the Sun" by Mary Dolen (KJOS) and "Stars and Wind" by Catherine Rollin. Robert D. Vandall has written so much music! His Prelude (3 books) are excellent and many are written in patterns.

These pieces don't put you to sleep at the wheel they create a great piece but also involvement of thinking and planning skills and anticipation. Progressive learning is the outcome when you use music composed for a purpose by a music education composer.

Use music. Think music. Do music.

Betty Patnude

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#1176880 - 04/08/09 05:14 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: BJones]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
You mean most Western based music right? The idea that music has to go somewhere is an idea. Have you ever heard Japanese koto or shakahuachi music?

Very nice stuff without the need to reach some kind of goal. Or isn't it good enough to meet strict standards set by dead composers?
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1177154 - 04/09/09 02:05 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: eweiss
You mean most Western based music right? The idea that music has to go somewhere is an idea. Have you ever heard Japanese koto or shakahuachi music?

Very nice stuff without the need to reach some kind of goal. Or isn't it good enough to meet strict standards set by dead composers?


I'm a big believer in letting the dead stay buried. Thousands of brilliant musicians have totally neglected their own creativity and spontaneity by dedicating their lives to faithfully reproducing the music of the long dead and buried instead of exploring the music inside. It's a shame. Take the sheet music away from most classical pianists and they're like a car without a driveshaft.


Edited by BJones (04/09/09 02:06 AM)
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


Top
#1177276 - 04/09/09 10:08 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: BJones]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
The OP is playing these two chords in 3/4 time

D minor
C major


A----
D F G


G----
C E F

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#1177639 - 04/10/09 12:00 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Betty Patnude]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Betty Patnude
These pieces don't put you to sleep at the wheel they create a great piece but also involvement of thinking and planning skills and anticipation. Progressive learning is the outcome when you use music composed for a purpose by a music education composer.

Betty, this "piece" is an improvisation exercise where students can "free play" at the piano. A concept you might want to look into in your own teaching.

As far as thinking and planning skills, they are unnecessary. The last thing I want my students doing during improvisation is to think. Hopefully, they will stay in the present and create something new. At least, for that brief time period, they are creators of music and not simply glorified typists who only can recreate what has been written by dead composers of the past.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1177658 - 04/10/09 12:48 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
Really, Ed?

I'm sorry you weren't here this afternoon for the 2nd lesson of my new 6 year old student. She make up a little story about my cat: "Marmaduke, he's orange and white, he sleeps quite a bit and he's likely to snore."

Using that for story line, she played in a 5 Finger C Position RH only and came up with a really cute, rhythmically correct to the syllables in singing style, and played and sang her little composition. Thinking, listening, planning, what to say, and what to play.

Typing, not at all. Straight from her heart.

These dead composers of the past are alive in our hearts - their music lives with us. They are still alive through the masterworks they left behind - without electricity, without modern day comforts, without grocery stores and McDonalds on every corner, and without all the doo-dads we now have available to communicate and teach with. Back when a brain was a wonderful thing to have and to use. When paper and ink were it and you wrote every note from the sweat of your brow by candlelight. Long story short.

I really admire our classical composers - piano or any other instruments and voice - they have longevity - and renown.

Betty Patnude

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#1177660 - 04/10/09 01:00 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Betty Patnude]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Really Betty? I wasn't talking about your 6 year old student.


Edited by eweiss (04/10/09 01:00 AM)
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1177755 - 04/10/09 09:21 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11848
Loc: Canada
Could some of these ideas be explored with an open mind? Music spans many cultures and many traditions. The idea of direction in music and structure would be interesting to explore in its own right. Maybe it merits its own thread (?)

Indian Raga is improvisational in nature. I know only a tiny bit about it. But I do remember that there was a formal structure to the improvisation where only certain choices were correct. This was linked to "classical" archetypes of emotions that were symbolized through microtones. The listeners and musicians know these patterns, and deviations from the patterns will offend the ear. Music happens across a time span. There is some kind of expectation within this time span in Raga, but I know no more about it than what I've set out. Is Raga expected to "go somewhere"?

What about traditional Chinese and African music? (There will be numerous traditions for each country and continent). Do they have formal conventions, and do these conventions impose "going somewhere" or do they have a different focus? (Being what?)

Did the chants of the early Middle Ages go anywhere, or did that structure happen later? (I honestly don't know). Modern music, of course, is all over the place. Part of the movements were attempts to escape and replace tonality and even the definition of what music and a musical instrument might be. 12 tone led to serialism, with its own strict structures - aleatory music "with the throw of a dice" to avoid any sense of direction whatsoever, etc.

What I'm wondering is if the criticism of Ed's idea, that it is not going anywhere, is justified. Does music need to be going anywhere if it is not trying to prepare for traditional Western music?

And ..... to Ed ..... are you going anywhere with this when you present it to your students? I don't think you're trying to be a pseudo-Schoenberg or emulate part of India. Are you liberating them from the paralysis of "needing to do it right" so that later they do start creating music that does go somewhere? I understand that jazz musicians commonly move along the I IV V I pattern. Immediately you are moving away from and back toward the tonic. that gives us a sense of direction. They have "licks" where classical music has "motifs" and such a thing can be developed, played with, and tell a story.

Classical teachers - can Ed's idea not be used in some fashion? He has an ostinato where the LH plays two chords with the same rhythm, so the RH is free to invent anything that may sound good. Does that not bring about some kind of coordination of left and right? Could this help overcome the awkwardness and hesitancy of the older student who is overly concerned about doing everything correctly ---- the careful meticulous typing out of notes so many of you describe ---- by experiencing free flow early on?

Can differences in approaches not be a unifying thing at times? I'm not sure that I would want to play something like the example, because I also like direction. But I can imagine creating exercises like that for exploration.

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#1177824 - 04/10/09 11:58 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: keystring]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Can't we all just get along?
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1177825 - 04/10/09 11:59 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11848
Loc: Canada
Paraphrasing me, Ed?

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#1178123 - 04/10/09 07:22 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Studio Joe]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: jw7480
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Is it supposed to go somewhere?


If you want to keep the listener's interest for 3 or 4 minutes.

Are you speaking for ALL listeners or just yourself?
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1178224 - 04/10/09 11:39 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: eweiss
The last thing I want my students doing during improvisation is to think.


If you don't want them to think while they play, most accomplished Classical pianists would be your best students! wink
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


Top
#1178257 - 04/11/09 12:45 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: BJones]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
That's funny!
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1178325 - 04/11/09 06:08 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: eweiss
That's funny!


The truth usually is! grin
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


Top
#1178796 - 04/12/09 12:08 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: BJones]
Serge88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/06
Posts: 775
Loc: Canada
You're So Narrow-minded!
_________________________

“Being able to hear recorded music freed up loads of musicians that couldn't necessarily afford to learn to read or write music. With recording, it was emancipation for the people.”
-Keith Richards


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#1179055 - 04/12/09 01:48 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Serge88]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: Sergio88
You're So Narrow-minded!



If I were narrow-minded, I'd only be playing written music as written. tired

Years ago, I decided that sacrificing my creativity and music for that type of slavish devotion to the long dead and buried wasn't for me. Alot of jazz musicians more than capable of playing the majority of the clasical repertoire obviously have come to the same conclusion over the past 100 years or more. thumb
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


Top
#1180467 - 04/14/09 08:27 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: BJones]
Serge88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/06
Posts: 775
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: BJones
Originally Posted By: Sergio88
You're So Narrow-minded!



If I were narrow-minded, I'd only be playing written music as written. tired


Oh well, I probably misunderstood your comment.
_________________________

“Being able to hear recorded music freed up loads of musicians that couldn't necessarily afford to learn to read or write music. With recording, it was emancipation for the people.”
-Keith Richards


Top
#1181052 - 04/15/09 04:59 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Serge88]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: Sergio88
Originally Posted By: BJones
Originally Posted By: Sergio88
You're So Narrow-minded!



If I were narrow-minded, I'd only be playing written music as written. tired


Oh well, I probably misunderstood your comment.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T3FXFnoTzE

Baby, do you understand me now
Sometimes I feel a little mad
But don't you know that no one alive
Can always be an angel
When things go wrong I seem to be bad
But I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood
Baby, sometimes I'm so carefree
With a joy that's hard to hide
And sometimes it seems that all I have do is worry
Then you're bound to see my other side
But I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood
If I seem edgy I want you to know
That I never mean to take it out on you
Life has it's problems and I get my share
And that's one thing I never meant to do
Because I love you
Oh, Oh baby don't you know I'm human
Have thoughts like any other one
Sometimes I find myself long regretting
Some foolish thing some little simple thing I've done
But I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood
Yes, I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood
Yes, I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood

grin
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


Top
#1181217 - 04/15/09 11:31 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: BJones]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Eric Burden and the Animals?
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

Top
#1181254 - 04/16/09 12:46 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Eric Burden and the Animals?


Bingo! Later, Eric Burdon and War!

Interesting that he used the word "edgy" in the lyrics! That might be the earliest use of the term I've ever heard of.


Edited by BJones (04/16/09 12:47 AM)
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


Top
#1181321 - 04/16/09 05:57 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: BJones]
Surendipity Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 129
Ah.. I love that song. I can hear it now in my head.

Pick 3 notes in the left hand, any notes you can reach at the same time. DO NOT CHANGE THEM!!!!
Pick 3 notes in the right hand. DO NOT CHANGE THEM!!!!

Play all of them together. Mix them up. Do anything to them.
Go crazy..... It'll always sound good.

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#1181323 - 04/16/09 06:18 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Surendipity]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: Surendipity
Ah.. I love that song. I can hear it now in my head.

Pick 3 notes in the left hand, any notes you can reach at the same time. DO NOT CHANGE THEM!!!!
Pick 3 notes in the right hand. DO NOT CHANGE THEM!!!!

Play all of them together. Mix them up. Do anything to them.
Go crazy..... It'll always sound good.


A simple exercise demonstrating that as long as the voice leading of those random 6 notes put into play is creatively and carefully controlled in a viably musical way, that is, with sound musical gravitation, suspension moving toward resolution, there is no right and wrong!
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


Top
#1181456 - 04/16/09 10:07 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: BJones]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
Three chords are nice too.

3/4

||: Ami | Emi | Dmi | Emi :||

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#1181632 - 04/16/09 02:58 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Jazz+]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
eweiss

i was curious about your motivation for making this post.. was information like this requested by someone in the forum? Its very unusual to see a post like this. It will be like me posting exercises i assign to jazz students.

I agree that freeplay exercise can be helpful. My question is, is this method progressive? are you going to explore how you can create a theme and do variations.. and develop it rhythmically and harmonically?? Because after students get used to this initial steps of free playing it would help for them to get used to various "musical thinking" to expand their means of expression,

btw think its rude of you to label classical musicians "simply glorified typists who only can recreate what has been written by dead composers of the past." There is so much that goes into their craft and a lot of expression too , I don't pretend to understand it all but at least I have respect for what they do. And I hope you can treat people with the same kind of respect and courtesy that they are extending to you too.

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#1181720 - 04/16/09 05:21 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: etcetra]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: etcetra
classical musicians are "simply glorified typists who only can recreate what has been written by dead composers of the past."


I couldn't have said that better! Most classical pianists can't tie their shoes when it comes to a theoretical understanding of what they're typing. For most, remove the music from the stand and it's like a treadmill without a hamster in it! You may get a few scales and arpeggions from them, possibly in double octaves, maybe some parts of classical pieces they've typed, but that's about it for the most part.

Eweiss has a firm understanding of the typical, garden-variety classical typist, ..er' "pianist". thumb


Edited by BJones (04/16/09 05:23 PM)
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


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#1181738 - 04/16/09 05:38 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: etcetra]
eweiss Offline
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Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: etcetra
eweiss

i was curious about your motivation for making this post.. was information like this requested by someone in the forum? Its very unusual to see a post like this. It will be like me posting exercises i assign to jazz students.

I agree that freeplay exercise can be helpful. My question is, is this method progressive? are you going to explore how you can create a theme and do variations.. and develop it rhythmically and harmonically?? Because after students get used to this initial steps of free playing it would help for them to get used to various "musical thinking" to expand their means of expression,

btw think its rude of you to label classical musicians "simply glorified typists who only can recreate what has been written by dead composers of the past." There is so much that goes into their craft and a lot of expression too , I don't pretend to understand it all but at least I have respect for what they do. And I hope you can treat people with the same kind of respect and courtesy that they are extending to you too.


Hi etcetera,

No one requested this post. I like to share what I know so I offered it here. I see nothing wrong with that. I'm giving something of value (hopefully) and did post in the appropriate forum.

As far as the method being "progressive," the most progressive thing most beginning adult students can do at the piano is to improvise and be in the moment while doing it. This skill is invaluable for it teaches one to trust intuition - a skill I consider to be most important.

Once students can trust themselves and the music that comes out of them, the rest is all downhill!

As far as my "glorified typist" remark, I apologize. I understand the time and commitment that goes into becoming a classical pianist. My response was really directed to Betty P. who freely criticized my video.
_________________________
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http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1181821 - 04/16/09 08:08 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Originally Posted By: etcetra
eweiss

i was curious about your motivation for making this post.. was information like this requested by someone in the forum? Its very unusual to see a post like this. It will be like me posting exercises i assign to jazz students.

I agree that freeplay exercise can be helpful. My question is, is this method progressive? are you going to explore how you can create a theme and do variations.. and develop it rhythmically and harmonically?? Because after students get used to this initial steps of free playing it would help for them to get used to various "musical thinking" to expand their means of expression,

btw think its rude of you to label classical musicians "simply glorified typists who only can recreate what has been written by dead composers of the past." There is so much that goes into their craft and a lot of expression too , I don't pretend to understand it all but at least I have respect for what they do. And I hope you can treat people with the same kind of respect and courtesy that they are extending to you too.


Hi etcetera,

No one requested this post. I like to share what I know so I offered it here. I see nothing wrong with that. I'm giving something of value (hopefully) and did post in the appropriate forum.

As far as the method being "progressive," the most progressive thing most beginning adult students can do at the piano is to improvise and be in the moment while doing it. This skill is invaluable for it teaches one to trust intuition - a skill I consider to be most important.

Once students can trust themselves and the music that comes out of them, the rest is all downhill!

As far as my "glorified typist" remark, I apologize. I understand the time and commitment that goes into becoming a classical pianist. My response was really directed to Betty P. who freely criticized my video.


It brought down the house over in the classical section. (Interdimensional forum section warp):

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...non-classi.html

These people are off the hook, Dawg!


Edited by BJones (04/16/09 08:09 PM)
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


Top
#1181961 - 04/16/09 11:52 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
DameMyra Online   happy
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1986
Loc: South Jersey
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Originally Posted By: etcetra
eweiss

i was curious about your motivation for making this post.. was information like this requested by someone in the forum? Its very unusual to see a post like this. It will be like me posting exercises i assign to jazz students.

I agree that freeplay exercise can be helpful. My question is, is this method progressive? are you going to explore how you can create a theme and do variations.. and develop it rhythmically and harmonically?? Because after students get used to this initial steps of free playing it would help for them to get used to various "musical thinking" to expand their means of expression,

btw think its rude of you to label classical musicians "simply glorified typists who only can recreate what has been written by dead composers of the past." There is so much that goes into their craft and a lot of expression too , I don't pretend to understand it all but at least I have respect for what they do. And I hope you can treat people with the same kind of respect and courtesy that they are extending to you too.


Hi etcetera,

No one requested this post. I like to share what I know so I offered it here. I see nothing wrong with that. I'm giving something of value (hopefully) and did post in the appropriate forum.

As far as the method being "progressive," the most progressive thing most beginning adult students can do at the piano is to improvise and be in the moment while doing it. This skill is invaluable for it teaches one to trust intuition - a skill I consider to be most important.

Once students can trust themselves and the music that comes out of them, the rest is all downhill!

As far as my "glorified typist" remark, I apologize. I understand the time and commitment that goes into becoming a classical pianist. My response was really directed to Betty P. who freely criticized my video.


Look at his signature line. His sharing is just a slightly veiled advertisement. Only $19 and he accepts Paypal.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher
MTNA/NJMTA/SJMTA

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#1181974 - 04/17/09 12:17 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: DameMyra]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Wow. You figured me out.
_________________________
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http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1182141 - 04/17/09 10:22 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
btcomm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/07
Posts: 278
Loc: California
The hostility towards Eweiss is beyond me. People, get a life. Play piano --- be happy!


Edited by btcomm (04/17/09 10:25 AM)

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#1182296 - 04/17/09 02:24 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: DameMyra]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Look at his signature line. His sharing is just a slightly veiled advertisement. Only $19 and he accepts Paypal.


Oh no!!! He makes a living in the music field! shocked

That's terrible. frown

How dare he?? mad
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


Top
#1182361 - 04/17/09 04:12 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: DameMyra]
tekkie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 38
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Betty Patnude

I must say, Ed, I found the scenery lovely to look at, but the music seemed harsh for such natural beauty.

If you've ever been to Yosemite, you'll realize that it has a very rugged beauty to it, and in my opinion, Ed's piece captures that feel nicely.

Originally Posted By: etcetra

I agree that freeplay exercise can be helpful. My question is, is this method progressive? are you going to explore how you can create a theme and do variations.. and develop it rhythmically and harmonically??

Here's a video Ed created on theme and variations, which he used in response to an imrpov question I had.

Originally Posted By: DameMyra

Look at his signature line. His sharing is just a slightly veiled advertisement. Only $19 and he accepts Paypal.

I'd rather hear constructive comments about his video lessons instead of hearing about his signature line.


Edited by tekkie (04/17/09 04:15 PM)

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#1182509 - 04/17/09 07:20 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: tekkie]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
Ed Weiss said: "My response was really directed to Betty P. who freely criticized my video."

I commented Ed, that's constructive criticism, by the way.

When I think of the pieces that music education composers have put to print about majestic things in the United States where we both live, I am amazed at how well the composers have filled their pieces with imaginatively and well-designed sound for certain levels of piano study. What a gift them have!

I think I'll take time to tool around a little to find some of these gems in writing music to share with people who are interested in both our countries natural beauty.

To start with the story of "American the Beautiful", being written in poetry while crossing our country by train is one of the most inspiring creations I have even heard or sung or played. Let's start there with inspiration. I would love to give an appreciation class on this patriotic tribute sometime.

There is music about Lewis and Clark, the Grand Canyon, you name it...it's been written. Let's feast our ears on eyes on this bounty - in Nature and in Music.

I will be working to prepare some really good examples of similar music to Ed's so we can have a rounded out picture of what has come before us, and what we have legacy to now.

Any criticism that is being felt by Ed, or by others in his behalf, was to acknowledge that other composers have been doing a magnificent and memorable job of it for a very long time. I believe that the music and the grandeur of the scene should match. Ed's video captured my attention in the sense of the photos, not the music. That is what making a comment is about. In my opinion, two chords do NOT make a rich, full sound.

As for rugged music, there is that too, and it can be sought as a study area in music. "Magnificent Seven" for instance?

Betty Patnude

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#1182536 - 04/17/09 07:54 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Betty Patnude]
tekkie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 38
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Betty Patnude
In my opinion, two chords do NOT make a rich, full sound.
Betty Patnude


I didn't realize there had to be a minimum number of chords to produce a rich sound, especially with New Age. Einaudi's "I Due Fiumi" uses 3 chords, varying between closed and open position. Even with 2 of the 3 chords, I think it would still have a great sound - for example a looping I-IV or I-V.

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#1182538 - 04/17/09 08:02 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: tekkie]
eweiss Offline
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Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Betty,

The whole point of my post was to illustrate a "technique." It wasn't to create a masterpiece or give what you call progressive instruction.

The ostinato technique is used in all genres and is an easy way for the beginning student to start improvising.

Many of my own students love it because it helps them quickly "dive in" to music making without having to note read.

That being said, why don't you tool around your own voluminous collection of creative work and offer somthing here instead of criticizing those who do. Wait. That's right. You don't have anything original to offer do you?
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1182557 - 04/17/09 08:36 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: btcomm]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: btcomm
The hostility towards Eweiss is beyond me. People, get a life. Play piano --- be happy!

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1182558 - 04/17/09 08:37 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Surendipity]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Surendipity
Ah.. I love that song. I can hear it now in my head.

Pick 3 notes in the left hand, any notes you can reach at the same time. DO NOT CHANGE THEM!!!!
Pick 3 notes in the right hand. DO NOT CHANGE THEM!!!!

Play all of them together. Mix them up. Do anything to them.
Go crazy..... It'll always sound good.

Serendipity, I think you've got it. Now if you actually try doing this, you might have some fun!
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1182590 - 04/17/09 09:30 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
Betty Patnude Offline
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Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
From Ed to Betty:

"That being said, why don't you tool around your own voluminous collection of creative work and offer somthing here instead of criticizing those who do. Wait. That's right. You don't have anything original to offer do you?"

I don't know, Ed, who would be the judge of that?

What makes you think I'm criticizing you? I'm commenting. I just think you set the target very low for easy entry into playing something, anything, and to be happy forever after with that much. That is the picture I'm getting of you from all that you say about yourself.

I do see myself as progressive, by the way. Kids get in a year and a half to two years what some kids take 4 or more to get, and there are some who never get what these little achievers eagerly do at piano lessons. I think expectations of our students help them gain confidence in what they will be able to do in the future. Everything isn't geared to the present, just like everything isn't in our future, be need to create enthusiasm and excitement about music, I think. I know the results I get. It speaks for itself.

Ed, don't you get tired of finding fault with me?

You're merry enough, go on your merry way earning the great living you are making. Money has never been my objective - selling is not part of my package - I give music education services in an enrolled tuition program - that's my livelihood and my passion

There's room for all of us as most of us find our customers and clients or they find us. Our reputations are what we earn along with the living style our wages buy for us. We're different people - different in musical pursuit and interests,too, I'm sure - everyone could claim they are different - and should.

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#1182594 - 04/17/09 09:34 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17815
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
I'm currently working on some pieces by Alessandra Celletti from her Golden Fly Suite. Golden Fly #4 has two, and only two, chords, and it is beautiful in its simplicity. It is also proving to be a difficult piece to play well... the trick to making it sound musical is to play delicately and bring the voice of the melody line out over the bass pattern. There is an ethereal beauty to the piece that is mesmerizing. heart
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#1182725 - 04/18/09 02:59 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Monica K.]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
ewiss,

I have to agree with Betty here somewhat.. whenever you post performance or teaching material on a forum, you are subject people's constructive criticisms.. and you can't expect everyone to tell you that it's great. Most of these criticism are well-intended and people are just trying to help you.

Perhaps it may help to describe in the post what kind of people this lesson is meant for. I am guessing your lessons are meant for adults who are absolute beginners and they don't know anything about the piano. Most people here in the forum have some kind of experience and this lesson might not be relevent for us. I guess that's part of the reason I was curious about your intention to post this.

Betty Pantude,

"I just think you set the target very low for easy entry into playing something, anything, and to be happy forever after with that much. That is the picture I'm getting of you from all that you say about yourself. "

For some adults that's all they need.. and is there anything wrong with that as long as that person is happy? Besides, most adults will probably move on after couple weeks of doing stuff like this.

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#1183245 - 04/19/09 02:42 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Betty Patnude]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
Betty Patnude makes some good points and I especially like this one:

"I think expectations of our students help them gain confidence in what they will be able to do in the future. Everything isn't geared to the present, just like everything isn't in our future, be need to create enthusiasm and excitement about music..."

I agree with these ideals. However, I think that ideals are not always practical. As a piano teacher I know that many adult students expect instant gratification and I have to find ways of satisfying that, even when I feel it's not the best thing for their growth as a pianist. Without some easy instant gratification each week they wont keep comning back and paying me money so I can make a living. The majority basicly just want to have fun, it's a a hobby and they don't really take it very seriously... they are too lazy or lack the self disiplne to make the effort to achive higher levels, it's not easy... Do I make sense???

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#1183303 - 04/19/09 07:00 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: Betty Patnude]
Tar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 296
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: Betty Patnude
"If I Were A Rich Man" from "Fiddler on the Roof", is a two chord song, but you never notice it because it's so captivating with the story and the rhythm of the words, and the chromaticism of the melody, it's liveliness and attribution to both Broadway and the movies, the costuming, the village, holds your attention. It's such an emotive piece.


Not the same sort of music, but the second half of Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 is made up of about 90% I-V progression. Again, it's the articulate and rhythmic musical passages so full of energy and a characteristic harmony that altogether keep that section going for 6 minutes (or 4 if you're a crazily brilliant pianist wink ) and you're still left asking for more!


Edited by Tar (04/19/09 07:01 AM)
_________________________
Tar Viturawong
Amateur composer and pianist
Known on YouTube as pianoinspiration
verbis defectis musica incipit

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#1184939 - 04/21/09 10:58 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: Tar]
YadielOmar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 66
Loc: P.R.
Good concepts, but there's no real structure. Yes I agree with your argument on creativity, but a person cannot apply what they don't know. Victor Woolten said once; Music is a language, languages were created to communicate a message or thought, therefore when you play there has to be a message behind the music. If music is a language, you need vocabulary. Honestly, your example didn't really say anything, it was like a hick trying to say something smart to a group of aristocrats and failing (no offense). For a person teaching creativity, that wasn't very creative, also at the end you messed up a couple of notes. Some good ideas, but it came out as boring and amateurish. And lamentably that might cost you the success of your product. Also, some of your comments were very defensive, that kind of made you come of as a snob, some humility goes a long way. Wish you success on your endeavors

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#1184945 - 04/21/09 11:12 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: YadielOmar]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
just buy an ad
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accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1184948 - 04/21/09 11:19 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: YadielOmar]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
although what YadielOmar says may sound rude, musicians get these kind of criticisms all the time... piano lessons can be much more brutal than this, but people participate knowing that the teachers are just trying to help you.

I don't have problem with people posting or their music/lessons like this, but if you can't handle criticisms perhaps you should not post videos like this. You can't expect everyone to shower you with compliments, esp since to most pianists will find these material seems very very basic, and this lesson appeals to very limited amount of people. That's why I thought it was important to be clear that this is meant for beginners.

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#1184949 - 04/21/09 11:19 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: apple*]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Looks like it became open-season on Eweiss during my tenure in the pianist section! frown
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


Top
#1184963 - 04/21/09 11:51 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: BJones]
YadielOmar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 66
Loc: P.R.
He has some good ideas, but there not worth paying for, when you can see some really informative videos for free. And from a teachers stand point, he's are going to have a lot of learning gaps (I don't know if that's the correct term) if the lessons are geared more towards creativity then focus on harmonic and melodic colors in a way that the student can express artistically what they want, if that's what your goal is. I'm with etcetra, it's a very limited market to be milking

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#1184968 - 04/21/09 11:55 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: YadielOmar]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: YadielOmar
Good concepts, but there's no real structure. Yes I agree with your argument on creativity, but a person cannot apply what they don't know. Victor Woolten said once; Music is a language, languages were created to communicate a message or thought, therefore when you play there has to be a message behind the music. If music is a language, you need vocabulary. Honestly, your example didn't really say anything, it was like a hick trying to say something smart to a group of aristocrats and failing (no offense). For a person teaching creativity, that wasn't very creative, also at the end you messed up a couple of notes. Some good ideas, but it came out as boring and amateurish. And lamentably that might cost you the success of your product. Also, some of your comments were very defensive, that kind of made you come of as a snob, some humility goes a long way. Wish you success on your endeavors

Yadie,

If you took some time to read my post, this lesson is illustrating a technique. It illustrates how to take a simple ostinato pattern and improvise over it. As far as being defensive, I have nothing to defend. I only respond when I think comments are inaccurate or simply off point.

For example, you said the music didn't say anything. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I have to disagree of course.

I suppose you equate "creative" with "sophisticated" as do most.

Creativity has nothing to do with sophisitcation. In fact, it's the opposite way around. As far as me making "mistakes," that's part of the package. In fact, I love making mistakes. It shows my students that the making of music is far more important than "getting it right."

Of course, if I wanted to polish it up I could. But why waste time?


Edited by eweiss (04/22/09 12:15 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1184974 - 04/22/09 12:09 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: etcetra]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: etcetra
I don't have problem with people posting or their music/lessons like this, but if you can't handle criticisms perhaps you should not post videos like this. You can't expect everyone to shower you with compliments, esp since to most pianists will find these material seems very very basic, and this lesson appeals to very limited amount of people. That's why I thought it was important to be clear that this is meant for beginners.

I'm glad you don't have a problem with it.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1184980 - 04/22/09 12:25 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Jazz+]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
The majority basicly just want to have fun, it's a a hobby and they don't really take it very seriously... they are too lazy or lack the self disiplne to make the effort to achive higher levels, it's not easy... Do I make sense???

Should they take it seriously? Or is having fun more important? I think the latter. As far as self-discipline goes, students will progress and be motivated far more by passion than rote exercises set by many teachers.

Many of my students are able to finally sit down at the piano and play what they feel without sheet music or lead sheets. They rely on intuition and some guidance. Is the goal to create the next Beethoven? Of course not. But at least they are, for a brief time period, one with the music. smile
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1184996 - 04/22/09 02:07 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
YadielOmar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 66
Loc: P.R.
Not really, when I mean creativity I'm only talking about creativity... sophistication is a different ballgame. Creativity is derived from the word create ( to produce through imaginative skill; to make or bring into existence something new) to bring to existence something new I need to understand what has preceded my future creation. Also you speak of your students being one with the music, to be one with something you must internalize it, and you can't internalize something you don't fully understand. You have to at least have a basic grasp of what is music, not saying 5 years of classical study, just know the definition of music... You do know the definition of the word music, do you? BTW

"I suppose you equate "creative" with "sophisticated" as do most."

In retrospect to coming of as a snob, case and point.

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#1184997 - 04/22/09 02:12 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
YadielOmar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 66
Loc: P.R.
Also, as etcetra stated there is not much of a market for what your selling, now if you broaden your horizons and cover more tangible material while fomenting creativity then that will be the birth of something worth paying for.


Edited by YadielOmar (04/22/09 02:17 AM)

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#1185111 - 04/22/09 09:21 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: YadielOmar]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
I don't think that there is not much of a market, there are plenty of "learn to play the piano today" kind of stuff out there, and they sell well, if you target it to the right audience. The problem is that most people here have experience on the piano already so its not that helpful. I think most pianists here have noodled around and played simple improv pieces before... i remember doing stuff like this as a high school student and it can be a lot of fun.

I've met a lot of people who were interested in learning piano, and frankly i would rather have some of them learn what ewiss is showing here rather the putting them through some classical/jazz regimen.

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#1185312 - 04/22/09 02:10 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: Betty Patnude]
Tar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 296
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: Betty Patnude
I'm sorry you weren't here this afternoon for the 2nd lesson of my new 6 year old student. She make up a little story about my cat: "Marmaduke, he's orange and white, he sleeps quite a bit and he's likely to snore."

Using that for story line, she played in a 5 Finger C Position RH only and came up with a really cute, rhythmically correct to the syllables in singing style, and played and sang her little composition. Thinking, listening, planning, what to say, and what to play.


Betty, I just have to say that this made me smile more broadly than I ever had for a long, long while. smile
_________________________
Tar Viturawong
Amateur composer and pianist
Known on YouTube as pianoinspiration
verbis defectis musica incipit

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#1185413 - 04/22/09 04:48 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: Tar]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
Thank you, Tar!

It's quite delightful to see kids picking up on things around them to sing or make music from. She has a vivid imagination and we well work and play at composing when there is an opportunity.

At this point in learning, songs are short and sweet.

She has a new song, melody line is 2-handed, and she will be working on playing it to play for "Marmaduke" who had his 14th birthday recently.

They have a mutual admiration society going!

I'm glad this evoked a broad smile from you. I saw that smile on her mother's face as she was listening to the development of the song - it will be a nice memory for all of us.

Betty

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#1185488 - 04/22/09 08:05 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
The majority basicly just want to have fun, it's a a hobby and they don't really take it very seriously... they are too lazy or lack the self disiplne to make the effort to achive higher levels, it's not easy... Do I make sense???

Should they take it seriously? Or is having fun more important? I think the latter. As far as self-discipline goes, students will progress and be motivated far more by passion than rote exercises set by many teachers.

Many of my students are able to finally sit down at the piano and play what they feel without sheet music or lead sheets. They rely on intuition and some guidance. Is the goal to create the next Beethoven? Of course not. But at least they are, for a brief time period, one with the music. smile


I agree. Although I only handle advanced students, the tedium of regimented lessons can be frustrating for a beginner if they are eager to create a sound similar to what they're pianistic goals are.
Simple ostinatos are a way to create that environment for a beginner. Anything that gets a beginning student to enjoy sitting at the piano is a worthwhile endeavor.
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


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#1185490 - 04/22/09 08:09 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: BJones]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Exactly. My goal is to get the "passion" going. Once that happens, the rest usually takes care of itself.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1185520 - 04/22/09 09:16 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: etcetra]
Busy Bee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 213
YadielOMar, Etc., and Betty, it is obvious that you are jealous of Ed. He has taken a simple technique and made it beautiful. He does that with all his music and out of creativity composes a wonderful piece. I think people like you get very offended because you think music is so darn complicated that when someone like Ed shows us it's not, you have to question your own abilities at the piano; less is more!! Less is more!!!

Playing dead people's music is not something that I and many others care to do or listen to. You will see by the end of your lives, hopefully long lives, that classical is on it's way out. Re-living music for hundreds of years is not where our world is going. Our very own human consciousness and creativity is changing as we speak and the day will be soon when we begin to discover new vibrations to fit our new conciousness, and I don't believe that dead peoples music is going to be a part of that growth.

JMHO

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#1185537 - 04/22/09 09:45 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Busy Bee]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
Let's ask our friends at Piano World Forum about this, Busy Bee.

I don't yet know YadielOmar, as today was the first I had read his postings, but he/she caught and held my interest, and I don't think I've read etc's yet as I don't frequent Pianist Corner very much.

I've been around since June 2007 in the forum, mostly in the teacher's forum, and sometimes the adult beginenrs and I've posted 3743 times it says on my profile. I would think that people who have read my posts know something about who I am and what I stand for, and how and why I post. For you to tell the world I'm jealous is absolutely ridiculous to me.

I grant you your wish to stay at the level of music that Ed is offering his public, it is the only thing he talks about, that does not mean it's the only thing he knows, but we can't tell that since he doesn't participate in indepth conversations or issues, he posts toward what supports his videos and business.

It's really offensive to me when you or anyone uses "dead people" in the tone of voice and lack of respect that you do. Dead peoples work and music being preserved is an honor, and I have felt called to the beauty and history of music and the arts all of my life. I'm not alone because here we are in 2009 still being called to classics. That doesn't mean that we don't love other kinds of music too.

People evolve to different levels and interests in their lives, I have found the arena I am happiest in, and I hope you do too, but it isn't wise to limit your self to one thing too early in life, you might be missing the possibilities that could occur in your own life if you keep the musical opportunity door nearly shut.

Speak for yourself please, and don't involve YadielOmar or myself, or any other person here in your defense of Ed. Ed doesn't need defending, he does well on his own. Everyone else can speak for him or herself.

Preferances are what set us apart and distinct from each other. It's all perfectly allowable and reasonable. Every one should participate in their own lifestyle whatever that involves of their choices and interests, don't let anything keep you from it. You've made your choice, but you are also free to make other choices, in the future, too.

I would love it if people would "take" a vote on is Betty jealous or not. I'm opinionated and aggressive sometimes, but am I jealous? I want to know if there is more than one person who thinks I'm jealous of something, anything. You can do it by PM if you want.

YadielOMar and etc., what are you thinking about being called jealous?

Betty Patnude

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#1185564 - 04/22/09 10:49 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Betty Patnude]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17815
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Betty Patnude
Let's ask our friends at Piano World Forum about this, Busy Bee...
I would think that people who have read my posts know something about who I am and what I stand for, and how and why I post. For you to tell the world I'm jealous is absolutely ridiculous to me.
... I want to know if there is more than one person who thinks I'm jealous of something, anything. You can do it by PM if you want.

Betty Patnude


Well, since you asked wink , yes, there is at least one other person who thinks your criticisms of Ed (and others on the forum) reflect some degree of jealousy, although I might be tempted to say that you come across more as being threatened, or defensive, or closed-minded, especially when you respond to any perceived criticism with such long rants.

There are many different routes to music and the study of music. Ed's approach is a valid one and serves a niche very well (and a niche that is growing steadily in size, if reports about an increase in adult beginners and retreaders are accurate). Your approach is also valid and also serves an important niche of its own. Um, live and let live, perhaps?

I think Bjones expressed it best: Simple ostinatos are a way to create that environment for a beginner. Anything that gets a beginning student to enjoy sitting at the piano is a worthwhile endeavor.

Ed, I applaud your efforts to bring the joy of music, and creating music, in people's lives. You reach people who have no interest in "traditional" lessons or the classical curriculum, and you get these people playing and making music who probably otherwise wouldn't. How on earth could that be a bad thing? smile
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1185572 - 04/22/09 11:03 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Betty Patnude]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1439
Loc: Australia
I always thought that music was about expressing feelings and emotions,(happy, uplifting, or sad) and being able to convey them to the listener, and thereby give pleasure to the audience.
This can happen at any level. From the simplest 6 year old's compostition, to the greatest masters who ever lived.
Any exercise or technique, that can encourage and inspire a love of a musical instrument, be it simple, or advanced, should never be ignored.
On the subject of dead composers, all I can say is that if I could compose just one piece, that people continued to play, and enjoy, long after I am dead, then I would consider that I had a life well lived.
_________________________
Rob

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#1185576 - 04/22/09 11:06 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Monica K.]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Busy Bee,

like i've said before. I've noodled around with stuff like that in highschool. My point is that what ed is doing is probably don't fit the needs of most people here and that its important that he finds a market/audience more suitable for this kind of teaching method.

I remember ed making a negative comments when a jazz pianist was offering free online lesson here, calling it a 'shameless promotion' and yet he is offering us free piano lessons... that was part of the reason i wanted to know the motivation before posting this material.

"classical is on it's way out"

wow, lets toss away Homer, Virgil, and Shakespeare while we are at it.. thats the stupidest thing I've heard in a long long time..

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#1185591 - 04/22/09 11:30 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: Monica K.]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: Monica K.
Originally Posted By: Betty Patnude
Let's ask our friends at Piano World Forum about this, Busy Bee...
I would think that people who have read my posts know something about who I am and what I stand for, and how and why I post. For you to tell the world I'm jealous is absolutely ridiculous to me.
... I want to know if there is more than one person who thinks I'm jealous of something, anything. You can do it by PM if you want.

Betty Patnude


Well, since you asked wink , yes, there is at least one other person who thinks your criticisms of Ed (and others on the forum) reflect some degree of jealousy, although I might be tempted to say that you come across more as being threatened, or defensive, or closed-minded, especially when you respond to any perceived criticism with such long rants.

There are many different routes to music and the study of music. Ed's approach is a valid one and serves a niche very well (and a niche that is growing steadily in size, if reports about an increase in adult beginners and retreaders are accurate). Your approach is also valid and also serves an important niche of its own. Um, live and let live, perhaps?

I think Bjones expressed it best: Simple ostinatos are a way to create that environment for a beginner. Anything that gets a beginning student to enjoy sitting at the piano is a worthwhile endeavor.

Ed, I applaud your efforts to bring the joy of music, and creating music, in people's lives. You reach people who have no interest in "traditional" lessons or the classical curriculum, and you get these people playing and making music who probably otherwise wouldn't. How on earth could that be a bad thing? smile


I think his efforts are definitely worthwhile and if I taught beginners, I wouldn't hesitate to teach them the same way in an effort to get them playing, get them making a sound that's comparable to many things they hear and want to emulate while also giving them the "traditional nuts and bolts" method for essential theory.
Most beginner's exercises have a student playing things that have no real musical bearing on what they like or what they want to emulate.
Ed's program gets their hands and minds working at the piano with a high level of enthusiasm becaue real music is being created and they're the ones creating it... very, very important.
This type of student will have an extremly low drop out rate because when they go to the piano, it's out of desire and love to play rather than approaching it with only dread, not seeing the forest for the trees because the traditional courses have them sweating it out with basics for months before creating a "professional" sound is accomplished.

Kudos to Ed for perfectly understanding the expresive needs of a beginning pianist. get them playing and keep them playing. have them want to sit at the piano and everything ele will fall into place. Ed understands this as well as anyone and his ideas are totally valid as well as right on the money.
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


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#1185596 - 04/22/09 11:34 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: etcetra]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: etcetra
Busy Bee,

I remember ed making a negative comments when a jazz pianist was offering free online lesson here, calling it a 'shameless promotion' and yet he is offering us free piano lessons... that was part of the reason i wanted to know the motivation before posting this material.



Ed explained when I called him out on that.
I do wish Dave Frank was still posting here. Dave's a great player and probably one of the few pianists on the planet coming from the same direction as I am, at the same approximate level!
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


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#1185664 - 04/23/09 03:47 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: Monica K.]
Tar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 296
Loc: Munich, Germany
I have an impression that this thread has become a discussion about the difference between the "classical" and the "modern", the "fun-loving" and the "serious", the "beginning" and the "experienced". I had rather think that Ed's earlier post:

"Isn't the world big enough for both?"

summed it up nicely. We all seem to agree to differ. Look at this realistically, has anyone changed their view point ever since this thread started? Although of course there is anything wrong with that, it's ugly when things get personal.

If we're not learning anything from this thread (not even how two chords create a rich full sound on the piano), at least we can refrain from harming ourselves and others. I'm sure we've all arrived here with goodwill and not poised to evoke personal attacks. Let's keep it that way. Now play the piano: classical, jazz, or new age, whatever you like!
_________________________
Tar Viturawong
Amateur composer and pianist
Known on YouTube as pianoinspiration
verbis defectis musica incipit

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#1185682 - 04/23/09 05:52 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: Tar]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: Tar
it's ugly when things get personal.


One man's ugly is another man's enlightening. You can really learn alot about someone when you haul out the manure catapults. thumb
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


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#1185778 - 04/23/09 11:06 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: BJones]
Tar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 296
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: BJones
Originally Posted By: Tar
it's ugly when things get personal.
One man's ugly is another man's enlightening. thumb

Wrong. One man's ugly is the same man's enlightening. I just hadn't quite grasped an opportunity to learn emotional endurance as well as discuss piano in this forum grin

Originally Posted By: BJones
You can really learn alot about someone when you haul out the manure catapults.

This reminds me of the Amtal Rule in Dune: "Only when an object was pushed beyond its limits would its true nature be seen"...
_________________________
Tar Viturawong
Amateur composer and pianist
Known on YouTube as pianoinspiration
verbis defectis musica incipit

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#1185780 - 04/23/09 11:09 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: Tar]
Busy Bee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 213
Etcera, and you don't think saying something like,

"My point is that what ed is doing is probably don't fit the needs of most people here and that its important that he finds a market/audience more suitable for this kind of teaching method"

is stupid.

I didn't realize you can speak for the "people here". Hum...how many followers do you have?


Edited by Busy Bee (04/23/09 11:15 AM)

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#1185870 - 04/23/09 01:48 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: Busy Bee]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
I think what ed is doing is perfectly valid, and we have *all* skill levels here at PW, so whether or not it's useful for "most" readers here, it's probably useful for some. And I'm also sure there are quite accomplished pianists who haven't improvised before who would find it useful - there was a post in a thread in the teachers forum about that particular situation just recently. I certainly use an "ostinato" pattern in the left - mine happens to be a basic oom-pah and bass runs - and do what improvising I do in the right hand.

So - whatever works. If Betty's student, or anyone else, learns to do some improvisation by making up a sentence and using its rhythm for a tune, I'm sure that works. If they use ed's ostinato left-hand, I'm sure that works. One of the things I like about ed's method (and it's not original with him, nor does he suggest that it is - he just illustrated in this video what can be done with it) is that it seems to me it is more directly related to one's ears - to primarily what one is hearing, rather than starting with something a step away from sound. While most beginning attempts may have pretty random sounds, after some reiterations/experimentation one can begin to appreciate the sound directly, rather than translating from the spoken word first. And for me, the actual music is the sound. The sound is primary. But again, I'm pretty sure both approaches work for some people.

YMMV.

Cathy
_________________________

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#1185966 - 04/23/09 04:31 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: jotur]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: jotur
I certainly use an "ostinato" pattern in the left - mine happens to be a basic oom-pah and bass runs - and do what improvising I do in the right hand.



...of which an oom-pah is the basis not only for polkas and rags, but for stride piano as well! A stride left hand can be characterized as an oom-pah, which is everpresent in Chopin and others of his ilk.

99% of rock and roll and blues piano are left hand ostinato patterns.


Edited by BJones (04/23/09 04:33 PM)
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


Top
#1185968 - 04/23/09 04:32 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: jotur]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
jotour

The confusion here is, did Ed post this material to 1) actually help people who are in need of these kind of help? or 2) to have other teacher evaluate the value of his method? I understand what ed is doing can be helpful, but so far that comments i read have been about how it would be helpful for 'someone else' with less experience.

so if ed intended to do the former, isn't it better for him direct this information to where its more relevant?

Also I can sympathize with betty's point of view too. i am not a classical pianist, I understand how much refinement, creativity, passion and expression goes into playing a piece of classical music, and I appreciate that. In some ways its natural that a teacher would want a student to go beyond the basic , because the rewards from that kind of challenge is far greater and profound and you'd be missing out on what music can really offer you.

Maybe what Betty and other wanted to see is how this exerecise can lead, and inspire people to taken on greater musical challenger later, a way to develop and deepen this rudimentary ideas

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#1185977 - 04/23/09 04:38 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: etcetra]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
and it depends on the person, but some people will be curious enough to figure what else you can do with om-pah and find ways to it more interesting. It could mean learning/imitating stride or analyzing how chopin/brahms om-pahed in their composition and figure out how you can use them on your improv .. i think a lesson of that kind would be very helpful to me and many others who has some musical experience.

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#1185989 - 04/23/09 04:52 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: etcetra]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Well, etcetra, ed posted this in the "non-classical" thread. I'd think that if he was primarily interested in teacher evaluations he'd post in the teachers forum. On the other hand, here in non-classical he'd be reaching many folks of varying abilities who are interested in - voila! - non-classical, improv, whatever. And many folks from the ABF check in here, as do folks who seldom or never visit the ABF. So since his first post didn't say anything about other teachers I figured it was for folks looking for ideas about non-classical music. His thread title, I guess, could have been a little more specific that the post was about improv, but - lots of us read it regardless of its title.

I'll reiterate - both ed's and Betty's ideas will work for some people, and some will prefer one or the other. But I don't think the idea that posters already know what ed had to offer is quite an accurate statement. And ed specifically stated that this is a place to start - it would be really difficult, I think, to go into every ramification of the idea in a single thread, much less a single post smile

And yes, you might be more interested in stride techniques, and others might also. But that doesn't negate the fact that some posters might find good ideas in ed's original post.

You might look at Homespun tapes instruction videos for stride and ragtime ideas. I have a couple that I thought had some good ideas. Also, Judy Carmichael's You Can Play Stride Piano, at www.musicbooksnow.com would probably keep you busy at your level smile

Cathy
_________________________

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#1186000 - 04/23/09 05:10 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: etcetra]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: etcetra
The confusion here is, did Ed post this material to 1) actually help people who are in need of these kind of help? or 2) to have other teacher evaluate the value of his method? I understand what ed is doing can be helpful, but so far that comments i read have been about how it would be helpful for 'someone else' with less experience.

so if ed intended to do the former, isn't it better for him direct this information to where its more relevant?

Also I can sympathize with betty's point of view too. i am not a classical pianist, I understand how much refinement, creativity, passion and expression goes into playing a piece of classical music, and I appreciate that. In some ways its natural that a teacher would want a student to go beyond the basic , because the rewards from that kind of challenge is far greater and profound and you'd be missing out on what music can really offer you.

Maybe what Betty and other wanted to see is how this exerecise can lead, and inspire people to taken on greater musical challenger later, a way to develop and deepen this rudimentary ideas

The answer is, I posted this to illustrate a technique and how it's used in New Age piano playing. If it inspires and helps fine. I knew there would be some who would "rake it" over the coals.

But as some have pointed out, I'm a big boy and can take it. What gets me is the hostility towards the post. Especially, and I emphasize especially, from fellow teachers. You think I personally came into their studio and swiped students from them. smirk

P.S. As far as "greater musical challenges" go, I think the greatest challenge is for students to trust themselves and their intuition. Once this is accomplished, there is no end to the possiblities! laugh


Edited by eweiss (04/23/09 06:14 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1186051 - 04/23/09 07:08 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: eweiss]
YadielOmar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 66
Loc: P.R.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5fKEOAWsaI&feature=channel_page This is what you will be paying for. As I have to keep on repeating over and over again, he has some good ideas, but its not worth the 20 some odd dollars he's asking to teach you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDq0HqHXuq0&feature=related If you can guarantee that I will be playing at that level by the end of your course then sign me up! But if you're going to teach me the circle of fourths and tell me its the circle of fifths then you're doing a disservice to the people watching said video and draining there pockets in the process. It's like convincing your son that the color blue is called red. You can't ask a painter to paint the 16th chapel with a red crayon and glitter, why not give your students a full set of materials to create, instead of a couple of tidbits. And I'm looking at this from a new age standpoint which is your target audience
To busy bee; How sweet of you, you thought I was jealous. Well, in actuality I want to help a fellow teacher out and also make sure his students get the best education. Jealously doesn't even come to mind. Now if you want to sting me that's ok, but remember that you only have one shot, because of your anatomy, so make it count
To betty; thanks for the comment, much obliged! I enjoy reading your post, very informative!

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#1186056 - 04/23/09 07:30 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: YadielOmar]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Yadiel,

Thanks for posting another video of mine. I really appreciate it.

The fact that you don't think my course is worth $19 a month (not $20) is fine. To you it may not be.

But to my hundreds of students, it is.

As far as the circle goes, it can be referred to as the circle of fourths or fifths. Here's a wikipedia article on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths

So you see, you can learn something in these forums after all! whome

P.S. My students learn how to play like the George Winston video you referenced by Lesson Four. So should I sign you up now?
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1186074 - 04/23/09 08:13 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: eweiss]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
For Pete's sake! Who would have known Wikipedia thinks there is a Circle of 4ths? There is corruption everywhere you look. Like a contagious "rash". They've captured irrational thought and now it's being marketed. Oh, maybe we knew that but don't want to admit it.

So you see, you can learn that wikipedia just goes with the flow of whoever posted, and whoever is posting these days.

George Winston plays like George Winston very much, he owns the George Winston style, plays in his George Winston outfits. He works with sound images and rhythm I believe. At one time he did not read music therefore could not write it. Then with the advent of computers in pianos, it's possible to play the keyboard and have it transformed to print. Because of this, his music has been able to be shared in print with the world. George is quite a mainstay of new age music and his associate musicians at Wyndham Hill have been mainstream and among the first on the scene. Let's hear it for George Winston! He is a very quiet, low keyed musician.

Does he know you use him as an endorser or example of your product?

What pomposity on your part, Ed.

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#1186089 - 04/23/09 08:42 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: Betty Patnude]
jotur Online   blank
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Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Betty - this particular section of wikipedia says it's undergoing a major revision, and you can edit it. Scroll down a little ways and there will be an "edit" button. You can also click on the blue words "circle of fourths" and go edit that section if you want. That section says "circle of fourths" is used more in jazz. But the whole article is up for review/editing, and wikipedia is, after all, a citizen encyclopedia. So if you want something changed, go for it.

Cathy
_________________________

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#1186099 - 04/23/09 09:04 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: Betty Patnude]
eweiss Offline
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Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Betty,

I don't "use" George Winston anymore than you use Beethoven, Czerny, or whatever you use to teach your students how to play piano.

I show students who want to learn this style, how to play in the style he plays in. Of course, that's just a small part of what I teach, but there's nothing wrong with that at all.

I'm not teaching them to play exactly what George plays. That would be limiting to a student's growth and identical to what you do. I teach the technique he uses so students can incorporate it into their own repertoire. Then they are free to create their own music.

Please, enough with the hostility already. It's getting ridiculous. And it doesn't reflect well on you Betty. crazy
_________________________
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#1186116 - 04/23/09 09:38 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: eweiss]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
It's not hostility, and it's not jealously Ed, it's a little wrath because you misstate music theory and pick on piano teachers who do classical music training.

What reflects on me Ed is the power of my work in music, the power of my written word, and other accountabilites I have in my responsibilities to my family, friends and associates.

You have a commercial aspect going here for the selling of your video course - for the purpose of advertising it - and probably for the purpose of signing people up. What you offer is enticing, and I'm sure there is interest, as you proclaim how easy it is. Easy? Easy?

I think your contribution here is rather self serving and I have said so. You appear blatant to me in your reasons for posting. If you contribute something significant other than your own enterprize I will change my impression of you.

No teacher with ethics would do or say unpleasant things about other teachers the way that you have while you were posting as "Q" and now as Ed Weiss. You have no qualms.

Contribute with things other than what bears your name and website and learning program and stop trying to intimidate reputable teachers who teach things beyond your chosen teaching style.

It anything reflects on you Ed, it's your column, your post, your domain, your purpose.

I'm just publically reacting to your marketing madness and jaunty attitude that goes with your speal. For those that your program appeals to, there are ways for them to contact you that are your responsibility to pay for the marketing expenses of contacting people with your message. Put it in your budget and respect the forum for the purpose it has to users. I consider all of your posting self serving and exploitive.

Are we clear on that.

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#1186118 - 04/23/09 09:42 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: Betty Patnude]
eweiss Offline
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Fascinating. And a little scary. sick
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#1186132 - 04/23/09 10:14 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: eweiss]
etcetra Offline
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Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
I think Betty sums up how some of the teachers are feeling about what is happening, although others might not feel as strongly as Betty.Most people are here to share musical ideas without any pretense of commercial interest.. if every teacher here started making post about their lessons or their new CD's it will add a lot of junk to the forum, and it will be very annoying

btw i think your post might have been more helpful at the "Adult Beginners Forum"

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#1186133 - 04/23/09 10:17 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: eweiss]
R0B Offline
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Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1439
Loc: Australia
I am confused.
As I see it, the original post, was a short video lesson, freely available to all, demonstrating a simple technique, that may be found to be useful by some piano students. Nothing wrong with that.
I would imagine that those who found it useful, would be happy, and those who didn't, would simply ignore it, and move on.
I really don't understand why such a post has caused so much hostility.
I don't know Ed, but I don't see why his link in his signature, is considered by some, to be nothing more than blatant self promotion, when I see others here, with similar links to their own business enterprises.
If I have missed the rules on posting links, I apologise.
Maybe someone could clarify this for me.
_________________________
Rob

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#1186136 - 04/23/09 10:23 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: etcetra]
etcetra Offline
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Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Also I would like to mention that the forum rules tell you

"Please do not use the forums to advertise or promote your business, services, or products."

do post like this break forum rules?


Edited by etcetra (04/23/09 10:28 PM)

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#1186143 - 04/23/09 10:33 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: etcetra]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
I personally see nothing wrong with what I'm doing here. If you do, then there's a simple solution - click away.

It's amazing how some are drawn back to this thread over and over as if some magic force is driving them.

If you have a problem with "what" I'm posting, take it up with the mods or with Frank and stop the harrasment. sleep
_________________________
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#1186147 - 04/23/09 10:49 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: eweiss]
YadielOmar Offline
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Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 66
Loc: P.R.
And all of this could have been avoided, next time post in the Adult beginner forum. Now then, by lesson four you say that I will be playing like the video of George Winston I presented... I saw lesson 111 and it really had little to do with George Winston. There is a site http://www.jazzpianolessons.com/ he give you clear and precise instruction and look he has a free trail, he gives you the freedom to create and and the tools to do so. Now I'm not promoting him, but he's a example of a good teacher that I would pay good money to learn from. Are you willing to give a free trail? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfBKD-HiWhI&feature=channel_page here's a video of him expressing himself freely and creating as he goes along. I would sign up to you, but as you can see, there are better teachers on the market. Also, I love the way you take my words out of context, with is pretty immature for someone of your age (late 40's wink So keep using my words to your advantage, but know that all your doing is proving me right

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#1186154 - 04/23/09 10:57 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: R0B]
etcetra Offline
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Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
R0B,

I don't think people are making conclusions just from this post. We've read other posts like this from ewiss.

In fact,

Originally Posted By: sotto voce
Ed, I didn't mean to offend, only to comment that my reaction was similar to that of pianoloverus and to observe that your approach isn't very likely to be useful in a subforum where we're playing classical music.


Steven


so i guess i wasn't the first one to suggest that smile

also from the same person

Originally Posted By: sotto voce
[quote=pianoloverus][...]
Ed, I would have thought that one such post in isolation was made in error—that you intended it for the Non-Classical or Adult Beginners Forum, perhaps. But coming right on the heels of the similar one about Debussy, it honestly seems as though you're casting the widest net for business and IMO has the appearance of a dummy thread for the purpose of self-promotion even if that wasn't your intent.

Steven


Edited by etcetra (04/23/09 11:02 PM)

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#1186159 - 04/23/09 11:03 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: R0B]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17815
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Originally Posted By: R0B
I don't know Ed, but I don't see why his link in his signature, is considered by some, to be nothing more than blatant self promotion, when I see others here, with similar links to their own business enterprises.
If I have missed the rules on posting links, I apologise.
Maybe someone could clarify this for me.


If you go to the main piano forum page, ROB, you can click on the "Are you a piano industry professional?" thread stickied at the top. It's actually a PW rule that if you are a piano industry professional (and Frank explicitly includes teachers in the list of occupations covered by this rule), you are *required* to declare your affiliation in your signature line, as Ed is doing.

I think either this or the AB forum would be appropriate places for Ed to have started this thread.
_________________________
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My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1186160 - 04/23/09 11:04 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: YadielOmar]
YadielOmar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 66
Loc: P.R.
To ROB; I didn't want to argue with him, I was just giving him some constructive criticism, and he took it personal. I like your playing and the format of your site, so you have nothing to be worried about, and you seem to be mainly interested in the well being of your students.

To Ed; Take a look at ROB's site http://www.learn2playmusic.com/ you could learn a thing or two laugh

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#1186166 - 04/23/09 11:09 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: Monica K.]
R0B Offline
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Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1439
Loc: Australia
Thanks Etcetra, and Monica, for putting me straight.
I am a relatively 'new kid on the block' here, and don't know the past history of other members.
I just took the OP at face value, and was suprised at the reaction.

Regards,
Rob
_________________________
Rob

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#1186175 - 04/23/09 11:18 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: R0B]
eweiss Offline
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Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
My purpose in posting here was not to cause so much stress and strain. If I offended anyone, I apologize. Such was not my intent.

I'm a teacher who is trying to turn people on to the New Age style of piano playing. I know not everyone likes it and perhaps I posted in the wrong place.

I'll know better from now on.
_________________________
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#1186185 - 04/23/09 11:45 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: eweiss]
jotur Online   blank
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Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
I really find it offensive that etcetra and YadielOmar seem to think that beginners in a particular style aren't welcome in this forum - and that is the implication when the two of them keep insisting that a video aimed at beginners shouldn't be posted here. Whether I agree or not with ed's posting history really has nothing to do with it - this is the *non-classical* forum, not the *if you're addressing beginners go somewhere else* forum. I'm a regular poster in the ABF, and relatively new at improvisation. I'm not a new age stylist, but I see no reason why I shouldn't come to the non-classical forum for hints on improvisation. I've read *many* helpful posts in this forum - posts that are addressed to beginners. There's a whole thread at this very minute in which a new improvisor has posted videos and is being given suggestions by more experienced posters. Should the new improvisor have not posted in the non-classical forum precisely because he's a beginner at improvising?

And etcetra keeps saying that because "he/she" is more advanced that posts directed at beginners should be somewhere else. I don't agree. The non-classical forum isn't just for people at etcetra's skill level, whatever that may be. And I don't really think etcetra and YadielOmar are the arbitrators on what skill level one has to be addressing in order to post here.

If a post addressed to beginners doesn't interest you, just click away from it and go to a thread that does. If you're not willing to make suggestions to beginners, don't. But IMHO it's really not up to you to say that no one else can. Whether or not beginners and those who are addressing them are offensive to you if they're posting in this forum is a separate issue from whether or not you like ed's posts, and it's an issue I disagree with you heartily on.

Cathy
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#1186197 - 04/24/09 12:09 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: jotur]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
jotour,

i think someone posting a video for suggestion is very different than whats happening here. and apparently someone else in another post made similar comments so I am sure its not just me or yadielOmar. It's not that he is not welcome to post in non-classical thread or that its offensive, but that it might be more helpful/relevant in Adult beginner forum.

ed,

maybe we're confused because some of the material had appearance "of being a self promotion". i am sorry if I misunderstood your intent.



Edited by etcetra (04/24/09 12:24 AM)

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#1186206 - 04/24/09 12:35 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: etcetra]
jotur Online   blank
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Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Sorry, etcetra, but you're confusing the issues. Quite obviously you don't like ed's posts because *you* think he might have violated forum rules, or perhaps you don't like something else he's done. I'm with ed - if that's really what you think the problem is, take it to the moderators or to Frank. But you've made it quite clear that the fact that it was aimed at beginners made it not appropriate here, or that maybe it's "more relevant" in the ABF, and that is a separate issue. Do you think all the "beginners" in the ABF are interested in improvising? They're all interested in new age music? They're more likely to excuse someone that you think is misusing the forum? Just what does make it more relevant there? For that matter, do you think all the folks who post in the ABF are beginners? Try listening to some of the recitals sometime. Just why is "someone posting a video for suggestion" ok, but someone posting something addressing beginners not ok? And that is a separate issue from whether or not you think ed's posts "might" be against forum rules. And you have made it pretty clear that you think ed's videos might be ok if only they were in the ABF. And I disagree.

Have you checked that book on How to Play Stride Piano that I suggested? Perhaps that is more appropriate to your level of playing.

Cathy
_________________________

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#1186215 - 04/24/09 01:06 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: jotur]
etcetra Offline
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Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
jotur,

again its not about what is okay and what isn't okay. I did not use the word "appropriate"

i was reading comments posted on the thread, and most of the comments were about 1) how this teaching method was ineffective 2) people defending the value his method, and how it may be helpful to "others", or 3)suggestion to expand on his ideas. I have not read many response saying that watching this was helpful 'learning experience' for them. So I felt like this material is reaching the wrong audience.

It's like me posting a thread on coltrane changes on classical forum. Most likely someone will tell me that this post will be better off at a non-classical forum where the information may be more relevant.

i agree that whether what ed does violate the forum rule is separate issue, and I am addressing that separately..and it would have been better off to go directly to the moderator instead of having this long winded discussion.

but assuming that it isn't i thought this post might get more positive response in the adult beginner forum which ed even said is who its mainly intended for.


Edited by etcetra (04/24/09 01:18 AM)

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#1186218 - 04/24/09 01:19 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: jotur]
YadielOmar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 66
Loc: P.R.
Well I have nothing to apologize for, now if you're busy paying attention to Ed's comment which distort the message I'm saying that's your problem. It's not about levels, he started this post with a blatant sales pitch that was cheesier than a mouse's savings account and when jw7480 said it didn't go anywhere, he replied fairly defensively, instead of explaining calmly that that's the idea of New Age music.
Jotur, if you want a example of basic modal improvisation which is the basis of New Age music then here's a link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tobMf2RZL84&feature=channel_page

Yeah, it's a trumpet and it's jazz, but it shows you step by step how modal improv works. Add this to what he explained in the beginning and you'll be on your way to improvising. See, get to know me before you judge me. And if you use this phrase against me, remember I'm helping you for free when I can easily withhold this info. I really hope this helps you on improve jotur


Edited by YadielOmar (04/24/09 01:20 AM)

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#1186231 - 04/24/09 01:46 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: YadielOmar]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
YadieOlmar -

I *am* on my way to improvising smile I know quite a bit about modes because I play modal music regularly smile I said specifically in my post that I don't play new age music smile I do understand, however, that I can learn from people who play styles of music which I don't play smile If you knew me you'd know that I regularly learn from people who play other instruments and what they do with those instruments smile I am not sure what, in your post above, I can learn about you other than that you think that particular youtube video is valuable for folks learning to improvise, and that you think there was a blatant sales pitch in the original post, which you did not bother to quote. So it's entirely possible that others didn't see it that way smile Since you are also claiming that, and I quote, "it's not about levels", then I really don't see what your comment in your post #1186147, and I quote, "And all of this could have been avoided, next time post in the Adult beginner forum." was about smile

But that's just me smile

Cathy
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#1186236 - 04/24/09 01:54 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: jotur]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
etcetra - it seeems to me you're basically a good guy. But I will have to say that I don't think anyone is responsible for a thread they've started taking a different direction than they intended. And I don't think this thread was posted in order to elicit comments on the teaching method. The fact that those were the first comments isn't the OP's responsibility. Did he react defensively to the first comment that the music didn't "go anywhere?" Maybe. But this thread went south before the folks for whom it was at least nominally intended had a chance to respond, as do many threads, actually. So - I guess we'll have to agree to disagree - I think the right audience may well have gravitated to this thread had the negative folks not gotten here first. Oh well. That's kind of life on the forums. I just don't think that the fact that the teaching-method disagreements got posted first is evidence that this forum is the wrong audience.

But I'll continue to read your posts with interest - I do like yor enthusiasm.

Cathy
_________________________

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#1186244 - 04/24/09 02:27 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: jotur]
YadielOmar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 66
Loc: P.R.
Hahaha, nice... I got burned laugh still just in case anyone has any doubts on what to do with the right hand and doesn't know that new age is modal then that's a good resource! Sorry I came off as rude, just got a little worked up and didn't think straight. Well, I agree with you on learning from everyone, and as I said 3 times before

HE HAS SOME GOOD IDEAS, JUST NOT WORTH THE ASKING PRICE.

There's other concepts that are tied with this that might confuse a beginner and I speak from experience. I wasn't ripping on him, I was just suggesting he should explain that new age is mostly modal.

Sales pitch;

So many students would just love to sit down at the piano and play. Yet these same students think you need years upon years of study to improvise successfully.

But that's where they're wrong! What If I was to show you a simple technique that will have you improvising in no time at all. Would that be something you might be interested in? If you answered yes, listen, because what I'm about to share with you will have you creating a rich full sound at the keyboard.

The technique I'm referring to is called the ostinato pattern.

It's not difficult. All you have to do is get the pattern down in your left hand. Then, you simply "jump in" with the right to improvise your own unique melody. A great example of this is in the video "Images of Yosemite" available below.



The problem students sometimes have is maintaining the pattern in the left hand. The reason for this is usually the same - they are playing too fast! There's no reason to. After all, the goal is for you to create your own music. And music is what we want. To get it, you need to SLOW DOWN at first until the pattern is firmly established. Then you add in your own improvised melody.

The music in the above video contains 2 chords. That's it! Just 2 chords and we have all we need to begin our improvisation.

No need to make it any more complicated than that. In fact, problems arise when students try to make something more than what they're ready for. My advice? Slow down, take your time, and you'll be well on your way to successful improvisation.

In Bold "HE HAS SOME GOOD IDEAS, JUST NOT WORTH THE ASKING PRICE"
I think you're cool and have a good insight in your comments, and sorry again for coming off as rude, not my intention smile


Edited by YadielOmar (04/24/09 02:28 AM)

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#1186255 - 04/24/09 03:20 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: YadielOmar]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
jotur,

thanks, a lot of what i've said is based on my previous experiences.. so I do admit that while part of me wants to be supportive of what is happening, i feel ambivalent because of some of the remark made about classical music and other things.

when a piano teacher or a trained musician sees this, the comment is usually going to be about 'constructive' criticism of the method, which is more or less what ed is getting right now.

just imagine if i posted a thread about 'colrtane changes' if i present it as a student asking question, i will get experts who are willing to explain to me what they are (hopefully), but if i just post it as a teaching material it would not be very effective.. the problem is no one asked for that information and its going to be very vague as to who its going to help. Chances are i will be getting response from people who already know the stuff... i guess in that sense, stuff like this gets evaluated just like when people post youtube recording on the forum

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#1186472 - 04/24/09 12:48 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: etcetra]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
I'm getting complaints about this thread. If anyone thinks the thread is not appropriate, breaks forum rules, etc., you should send a message to the moderators. The complaints I'm getting is about the OT discussion of whether the thread is appropriate or not.
I don't see a problem with the topic of tis thread, so please get back on topic, or I will have to close it.

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#1186607 - 04/24/09 03:48 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: etcetra]
Busy Bee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 213
What is the world is the "non-classical forum" for if it's not for non classical threads?

Etc, Yadiel, and Betty, you need to get a life. Just because someone is promoting something that you're not in to, doesn't warrant this type of reaction. Yadiel, who asked you if you liked Ed's cd's, lessons and videos? Betty, who asked you what to teach, promote and share on this site? Maybe you three should start your own website, "Play Like Us And If You're Not Like Us, You're Not Welcome" Yeah, do it and go away already with your stupid jealousy.

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#1186651 - 04/24/09 04:55 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: Busy Bee]
YadielOmar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 66
Loc: P.R.
Originally Posted By: Busy Bee
What is the world is the "non-classical forum" for if it's not for non classical threads?

Etc, Yadiel, and Betty, you need to get a life. Just because someone is promoting something that you're not in to, doesn't warrant this type of reaction. Yadiel, who asked you if you liked Ed's cd's, lessons and videos? Betty, who asked you what to teach, promote and share on this site? Maybe you three should start your own website, "Play Like Us And If You're Not Like Us, You're Not Welcome" Yeah, do it and go away already with your stupid jealousy.


Hahaha, nice one! c'mon don't get all worked up and chillax. We gave some suggestions, it got a little heated ed's cool about it, I was a beginner too! It's nothing personal, were just presenting a contrasting point for people to have more than one point of view, that's all.

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#1186660 - 04/24/09 05:18 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: YadielOmar]
YadielOmar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 66
Loc: P.R.
The mod is right, back to topic... Good idea, great for beginners, thanks Edwiess I have nothing to add because I am not as open-minded and creative as you are... I said everything I needed to say

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#1186674 - 04/24/09 05:47 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: YadielOmar]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1130790/Searchpage/1/Main/81228/Words/quiescence/Search/true/Re:%20Five%20Minute%20Piano%20Improvis.html#Post1130790

its funny I just remembered ed went by a different name.. no wonder this post looked very familiar....

this quote pretty much sums up my point of view

Originally Posted By: JerryG
A suggestion for you Quiescen, your "helpful emails" are likely to have the reverse effect on your business. People on this forum might get the impression that you are not here to offer helpful suggestions but rather for pecuniary gain. You are likely to send the wrong message.

There have been several responses to your posts indicating the perceived nature of your your posts as nothing more than trying to advertise on a forum that prohibits advertising.

You sound like you may have something to offer those in search of what you teach, but you might want to consider that you seem to be generating negative advertising here.

Just my opinion but something you might think about.




Edited by etcetra (04/24/09 05:53 PM)

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#1186699 - 04/24/09 06:53 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: etcetra]
YadielOmar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 66
Loc: P.R.
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1184271/Re:%20What%20is%20This%20Pianist%20Doing.html#Post1184271

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1179901/Re:%20Create%20Your%20Own%20Music%20with.html#Post1179901

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#1186721 - 04/24/09 07:43 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: YadielOmar]
Sundew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 281
Loc: England
As a beginner who has decided to look into blues and improvisation, I have only recently dipped into this sub forum. I have never heard of an ostinato pattern. I like the relative simplicity of the example posted. K.I.S.S works for me.

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#1186846 - 04/24/09 11:17 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Piano! [Re: eweiss]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: eweiss
So many students would just love to sit down at the piano and play. Yet these same students think you need years upon years of study to improvise successfully.

But that's where they're wrong! What If I was to show you a simple technique that will have you improvising in no time at all. Would that be something you might be interested in? If you answered yes, listen, because what I'm about to share with you will have you creating a rich full sound at the keyboard.

The technique I'm referring to is called the ostinato pattern.

It's not difficult. All you have to do is get the pattern down in your left hand. Then, you simply "jump in" with the right to improvise your own unique melody. A great example of this is in the video "Images of Yosemite" available below.



The problem students sometimes have is maintaining the pattern in the left hand. The reason for this is usually the same - they are playing too fast! There's no reason to. After all, the goal is for you to create your own music. And music is what we want. To get it, you need to SLOW DOWN at first until the pattern is firmly established. Then you add in your own improvised melody.

The music in the above video contains 2 chords. That's it! Just 2 chords and we have all we need to begin our improvisation.

No need to make it any more complicated than that. In fact, problems arise when students try to make something more than what they're ready for. My advice? Slow down, take your time, and you'll be well on your way to successful improvisation.


This is actually very nice, and nicely played. My impressions about it theoretically is that stylistically, it's right out of very early, pre-Bach-Vivaldi-Handel, Renaissance period. It has the sound of Palestrina and other modal-madrigal compositions very typical of that period, the same type of accompaniament, ornamentation, and modal melodic material.
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


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#1186847 - 04/24/09 11:18 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: Sundew]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: Sundew
As a beginner who has decided to look into blues and improvisation, I have only recently dipped into this sub forum. I have never heard of an ostinato pattern. I like the relative simplicity of the example posted. K.I.S.S works for me.



99% of all blues and R&B piano left hand configurations are ostinatos!
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


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#1186886 - 04/25/09 12:25 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: BJones]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
I thought it fit the slide show, too smile

When I first started doing (what little) improv I do, it was adding bass note runs in the left hand. So mostly I just made sure I landed on the tonic of the chord on the first beat of the measure laugh When I started doing improvs as accompaniment to English country dance music - Purcell, early Baroque pieces - I would keep the left hand on block chords, which is probably the simplest ostinato, and keep the right hand essentially on the chord, and just wiggle my RH fingers rhythmically, essentially. But it added a nice little sort of ornament sounding thing behind the melody players, and gave me some confidence that I could "make things up". A very similar technique can be really effective under the melodies of waltzes, or doing little runs from chord to chord in either hand.

And I think the advice to "slow down" when you're first learning is right on. I get sort of discouraged sometimes that I can't always do it at speed (I play for contra dances, and the tempos can be sort of breakneck), but when it turns out I *can* do it slower it gives me hope.

I'm working on doing some more adventurous improvs in a honky-tonk style now, and it's a blast.

Cathy
_________________________

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#1187332 - 04/25/09 06:39 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: jotur]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: jotur
I'm working on doing some more adventurous improvs in a honky-tonk style now, and it's a blast.

Cathy


Then be sure to listen to Leon Russell.
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


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#1187540 - 04/26/09 04:25 AM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: BJones]
Sundew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 281
Loc: England
BJones, thank you for that snippet of information. I readily admit to being a "musical illiterate". I'm adding terms to my vocabulary as I come across them rather than actively seek them out, lest I become overwhelmed! smile

Cathy, thanks for those ideas. When faced with my first improvisation task I froze. A simple whole note shell progression LH and the first 5 notes of the Cmaj blues scale RH. I have thawed a little now but suspect my efforts are still pretty risible. What it hammered home was the need to have the LH pattern secure under my fingers. I thought practicing the same simple patterns over and over would be boring, but oddly it isn't.With Alfred I developed the tendency to think "that will do" and moved on.

Glad you are having a blast, that's what its about IMO. I'm fizzling but have no intention of "fizzling out". grin

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#1187718 - 04/26/09 02:03 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: etcetra]
jazzyprof Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2644
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: etcetra
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1130790/Searchpage/1/Main/81228/Words/quiescence/Search/true/Re:%20Five%20Minute%20Piano%20Improvis.html#Post1130790

its funny I just remembered ed went by a different name.. no wonder this post looked very familiar....

this quote pretty much sums up my point of view

Originally Posted By: JerryG
A suggestion for you Quiescen, your "helpful emails" are likely to have the reverse effect on your business. People on this forum might get the impression that you are not here to offer helpful suggestions but rather for pecuniary gain. You are likely to send the wrong message.

There have been several responses to your posts indicating the perceived nature of your your posts as nothing more than trying to advertise on a forum that prohibits advertising.

You sound like you may have something to offer those in search of what you teach, but you might want to consider that you seem to be generating negative advertising here.

Just my opinion but something you might think about.



I have resisted the urge to jump in on this thread and I know that the moderator Phlebas has cautioned us to stay on topic. However, I am concerned by the self-serving nature of eweiss/quiescence's threads, this one included, but especially a couple of recent ones he started in the "In the News" sub forum. That forum is for posting piano/related articles from newspapers, magazines, and the web. And yet eweiss uses it as an opportunity to publish his own (unpublished) press releases, blatantly advertising his own services. He is surely pushing the envelope of what is considered permissible here. Unfortunately, the "In the News" forum has no moderator so I cannot report it to anyone but it all fits in the self-serving nature of Ed's posts, first as quiescence and now as eweiss. It is not my desire to attack him but we must call a spade a spade. Here, have a look at these and tell me if this is not advertising:
eweiss online lessons
eweiss cures stress
quiescen online lessons

His advertising and the way he demeans classical pianists (calling them mere "typists") moved me to post this. He needs to stop pushing his services and show some respect to all forms of music.



Edited by jazzyprof (04/26/09 02:15 PM)
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1187740 - 04/26/09 02:43 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: jazzyprof]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Wow. The piano police strike again. You'd think those trying to make a living in this industry would somehow understand what I'm doing here.

Which really isn't anything you should get upset about. As I mentioned in a previous post on this thread, if you don't like it, click away.

I give what I think is useful content in exchange for a link back to my site. No big deal here. It's done all over the web. And more importantly, the mods don't seem to have a problem with it. Those who do have a problem with it should admit it's their problem and move on.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1187752 - 04/26/09 02:57 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: eweiss]
jazzyprof Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2644
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Wow. The piano police strike again. You'd think those trying to make a living in this industry would somehow understand what I'm doing here.

I understand exactly what you're doing here, which is why I posted. We are all trying to make a living but we should do it on our own dime, by buying advertising from Frank so he can keep Piano World going.
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1187759 - 04/26/09 03:22 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: jazzyprof]
btcomm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/07
Posts: 278
Loc: California
People, chill out. I think the more piano/keyboard stuff we can get our hands on is a good thing. Something for everyone. Like he said, if you don't like it, move on. Not a big deal. People are taking this way too seriously --- geez!

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#1187761 - 04/26/09 03:23 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: Sundew]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Originally Posted By: Sundew
...suspect my efforts are still pretty risible. What it hammered home was the need to have the LH pattern secure under my fingers. I thought practicing the same simple patterns over and over would be boring, but oddly it isn't.With Alfred I developed the tendency to think "that will do" and moved on.

Glad you are having a blast, that's what its about IMO. I'm fizzling but have no intention of "fizzling out". grin


At least you're getting a laugh out of it laugh - sorry, couldn't resist.

I, too, was surprised to find that playing simple patterns over and over isn't boring (depending on the mood I'm in, of course). Perhaps it's a sign of piano practice maturity on our parts - we get engrossed in the process of making music, knowing that what we're doing will give us rewards in a longer run.

I have also found that if I have a chance to play by ear with another musician/musicians it helps enormously in learning to do some improv. It forces me to actually listen to what the musicians are doing and "grok" it into my part, and it forces me to not "worry" about the "mistakes" but to listen to them and use them to learn from/experiment with. It's all about the sound and not the sheet music. There's not as much opportunity to do that as I might like, and sometimes I don't take advantage of the opportunities I have, preferring to stick with lead sheets or just stay at home and practice something I'm memorizing. And sometimes I'm trying to avoid embarrassment laugh But in truth, unless we're preparing for a dance or something, as long as I don't completely dominate what the others are doing, the musicians I know are experimental-tolerant, and often encouraging. Don't know if that's an option for you, but it's something to think about.

In my experience even a little improvisational risk-taking brings huge rewards. Nice to know there are others on the road.

Cathy
_________________________

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#1187796 - 04/26/09 04:20 PM Re: Two Chords Creates a Rich Full Sound on the Pi [Re: jotur]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Closed.

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